Madeline Manning-Mims and Charles Moore

Recorded November 2, 2019 Archived November 2, 2019 42:20 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddf000420


Dr. Madeline Manning-Mims (71) speaks with fellow Olympian and gold medalist Charles Moore (90) about their most memorable Olympic racing moments, their athletic journeys, and living with purpose after competing.

Subject Log / Time Code

MM and CM share their memories from Olympic Opening Ceremonies. CM recalls his family being present to see him compete in Helsinki during the 1952 Olympic Games, and his father's influence on his career.
CM and MM share anecdotes about being studied by Russian athletes and coaches for their technique, and recall Cold War tensions. MM recalls training in the mountains with Team USA's boxing team.
MM speaks about being 20 years old during the 1968 Olympics, and competing alongside fellow Tigerbelles. MM discusses camaraderie in contrast to the loneliness of running the 800 meters, previously the longest distance event women could run.
MM recalls planning race strategy with Doris Brown Heritage before winning the 800m, breaking the world record. MM notes that she was the first woman of color to break this barrier, and speaks about the previously-held stereotypes she shattered.
MM and CM share memories of the 4x400m relay races they competed in. MM recounts having an "out of body experience" and praying as she finished the race. CM remembers competing against the great Jamaican team bolstered by Herb McKenley. CM recalls being devastated to earn Silver.
MM reflects on the experience of earning an Olympic Gold medal and recalls the ceremony and an awkward interview afterwards. CM remembers his lack of focus on the nationalistic aspect of competition at first, and both recall the overwhelming emotion felt on the podium.
CM recalls his father pushing him to be a hurdler, and his memory of winning the NCAA Championship in Los Angeles. MM shares the story of being "discovered" in the Presidential Physical Fitness Challenge, and speaks about her drive to work hard.
CM and MM discuss learning responsibility, and parenting. CM asks MM about lineage and genetics mentioning MM's son, a collegiate champion in the triple jump. They speak about work ethic and the mind of a champion.
CM and MM speak about the books they've written about life experience. MM asks CM to share his legacy: CM wants to be remembered as a family man. MM speaks about her desire to "pass the baton" to others.


  • Madeline Manning-Mims
  • Charles Moore

Recording Location

Broadmoor Hotel

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service


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00:02 My name is dr. Madeline manning-mims, by age is at my age of 71 years old the date today is November 2nd night 2019 and I'm interviewing with my partner Charlie Moore and we are going to find out a whole lot about each other.

00:28 Now what I did I am an Olympian and the four Olympic Games 1968 where I won the gold medal in the 800m run for women and in 1972. I won the silver medal and the 4 x 400m race relay and that I also made the 1976 games and the 1980 Olympic Games.

00:58 I already told you about my winning of the gold medal, but the the the massive thing that probably want to know Charlie is that I was the one woman in the world that broke the myth that women of color could not run long distance and it was because they thought that we only had quit bucks muscles and that we couldn't run long distance and my performance and breaking the world. The Olympic record is set in the American record shattered that myth by me winning some 40s over my competition, but that's just for you to know.

01:41 My name is Charles Hughes more Junior. I'm in 90 years old. Today is November 2nd 2019 and we're here in Colorado Springs at the Broadmoor Hotel name of my interview partner is Madeline manning-mims and my relationship is special.

02:05 We both want the same medals in the Olympic Games were both of former Olympians. We both won Gold in both one silver and we have a lot of things in common dish to share it to be certain. I am an Olympic

02:22 Medalist in the 1952 games. I won both the goal setting the Olympic record twice that separates part that do it twice. And and then will it get this later with an error racing the 4 x 400 relay where we were II by 4images that was a 1952. It's a probably important to share this with you. In 1924. My father made the US team so we were the first Father's son of every represent the United States and he played a very important role in my development and commitment and so on.

03:11 The

03:14 The words were in terms of metals were many. But the memories are far greater. I thought so wonderful. I've met only two other people who were in a father son or daughter daughter know that I was thinking of the sprinters that I had met before fournette. That's neither here nor there.

03:49 When do things that I think most people want to know from us as Olympians and I would love to hear your version of your experience on your first Olympia to walk into the Olympic Stadium what that felt like the opening ceremonies day the whole Utopia of the Olympic Village the whole experience like that describe what that was like in 1952 by the way, you know a very close friend of mine. We we know each other very well Harrison Dillard who is a sprinter from Cleveland and he and I are from the same Hometown to go to the same college has no he was before me I was about 4 when you all were doing your things, so

04:49 Tigerbelles wealth

04:55 I've already told you that I just want of a break to have a father who who it had tasted Olympic experience and he was very informational driving me and those days when they said jump are you said? Yes, sir. And so he drove me hard and that was very very important my father my mother and my sister were in the stadium in Helsinki Finland to see this and obviously it meant more to him than it did to me at the time.

05:34 It's disappointing to buy salmon for you. I did not take part in the ceremonies The Opening Ceremonies because I was running the next day and one of the eight days of track and field competition 19527. We're ain't that a rainforest. So and so yes, I was at all a bit of a backup in and say that there's a preparation and that's your training camp now in 1952 were talking about the middle of the Cold War.

06:10 The Russians have not competed since 1910 and they very much want to compete in 1948 the games with London.

06:22 Khrushchev said no. When I enter the game is we will dominate all Races all countries and you're not ready yet. So I sent 1,000 1,000 years that the study of what went on in in London knows games, but they can visit that they were ready for 19 for 1952. So here we come the Russians ready to dominate the world, but with one very important one awful caveat, they have had to have their own training camp with you don't understand because that's not the idea of the Olympic Games to bring all the countries together as we going back to the Greek state. So Eastern free world had their training camp, but we got back and forth to see each other and so we we start to get this sent.

07:22 Oh my God. Oh my God, what is going to happen here? This is great race and the Russians and protected came to visit to see me a y l a Russian had nine of the ten world rankings.

07:35 In the four animated Heroes

07:37 And they're Denver won Herber never lost a race, but they've gotten two words or the European journals that I was kind of careless or I'll be taking 13 steps between hurdles instead of 15 the stairways 15 and they couldn't believe this until they came over with a broom in his defense. He tries to help today and tell you play speak out of their measuring said yesterday 13 steps by herself.

08:25 When I walked in that Stadium I was no.

08:30 That year we run the first day two races the second one, which I set the world record olympic record. And then the next day it's supposed to rain in Ecorse next day. I had two races and Russian. I told you I had never lost his time was better than my time in the semifinals and I do appreciate this.

08:54 But you know, we ran in the lanes and I was really lucky you by heat and quarter fire on 75. I got inside Lanes so I can see the room and of course you can. You know, I'm going to say and I got the absolute outside in the six-lane in the final I'm by myself. So I guess I was there to win that race and I was

09:22 I'm so committed to block everything on my mind. I got to be the first of all first and then the second or the third I wasn't worth the pain then I want to because by 13 steps which I had this advantage over the others for yards and they are for yard do in and they're like I bet it's amazing the amazing feeling today as fast as stated with her house and it was a wonderful place to the states the games but not out there. Yes, people could see your eyes as you're describing your rice because you're reliving it and I can see it in your eyes. It's interesting. You had a bad experience with the Russians coming over and and measuring you they had the same.

10:22 It happened to me. I did I was training and I saw this camera crew and I was wondering what are they doing on the track? And after while a one of the guys came over who had film me? I was doing some 300 and then I did some 150 and I was doing a Sprint workout that day and he said would you like to see something and I said yes for two are you we are Russian journalist. You are very very good runner and we love to watch your stride and he began to show me on the on the video that he had taken the stride in increments, you know from the time my foot will strike roll and come.

11:22 Like that and come through a hole. He said do you realize that you are covering 20 meters and your stride your stride is your in the air flying more than you are running. It doesn't first time I've ever heard anything like that. I was like what in 68 you were in the same Village or is it still different colleges where you were all and send us? All City gorilla camp training camp was in Los Alamos, New Mexico Kerr the men were in Lake Tahoe Lake ladies were the u.s. Boxing thing. So a lot of times when myself and the other eight hundred women with get up to do are morning runs the boxing.

12:22 Team would be out and I could swear that they were running faster backwards because it was high altitude. We went up into a mountain that had blown it stop that was 9000 feet higher and trained up there and then came back but that was a scary time to be cuz you know, when you first start walking around in altitude, you think you're in shape and all of a sudden you're walking and you could have it in you wonder what's wrong with me. You know, I must be sick, but same question to you. Okay over you walked in that stadium in time Duke as a spectator you go back to the game, but what it would do. Well, I was 20. I was very young and I was a sophomore in college.

13:23 I was on a team that had some of the top sprinters in the world have the tiger bells and the bells for people who don't understand what that is is a people who have set standards for women worldwide. And so we had about six or seven sprinters that work. It's like watching them at a Nationals run against each other during the day competing and especially when they had to do blocks. Oh my goodness, we would stand there watch them just zoom out the blocks and we had some of the top high jumpers long jumper and then it was a girl from from the United from Jamaica. That was my roommate. Yes, you know Maurice who ran the two and the for 204 M400 and I ran the four and eight.

14:23 We would work out together anytime we had time trials and stuff like that. Everybody would watch and encourage each other. So I had kind of been in that upper echelon of being able to produce at a high level but coming into the games. It was very lonely. The 800 meters was the longest that the women could run at that time later on the next Olympic Games. We added the 1500 and then it went on up from there. But at that time that was the longest game, so it was dude as a distance run and you wouldn't tell you one by 40 yards 40 40 or at 2:40 me to home.

15:09 That's part 2 coming in the straight away. I was trying to get first and second because there was another Olympian there who made the finals Doris Brown and so I had talked to her and said there was a tell you what I'm going to go out really fast. I'm in line 8 anyway, and I don't want to see anybody I'm going to take out as fast as I can and once I get out, I'm going to slow the pat-down and you come out on the outside of me and come up in the front so that we can lead the race. Otherwise, you're going to get stuck back there and they're going to try to box you in so she said okay, but it didn't work out that way. And after the first the first lap I'm looking around like what she should be here. I know she should be here and she wasn't and so I was like, okay. Well, I don't know what's going on.

16:09 But you're on your own and so then I started really concentrating on my turn over and picking up didn't realize that at the time that the third 200 of the 800 is the one that you want to really push but I automatically pushed it. And and so when I came in and was relaxed enough coming off that third, I began to gather and and kick coming off the curve. I just start kicking. I just took off from everybody and that was part of running with some of the tiger beltzhoover sprinters. My turnover was really quick. And so I actually won by a phenomenal world record set the world record of the American record and became the first woman of color to ever win a medal and open the door for other women.

17:09 Ethnicity help me all around the world. Tell me about your 4 by 400 by 4 by 400. Did you love it? Because we both ran individual racism when the relay came around you were a part of a team and I was definitely a team Runner but lucky run. I ran the 200 and I'll tell you what the second I accidentally in practice was running a hundred and 50s with one of the other girls and the last 150 slowing down. I pulled a muscle behind my knee.

17:54 And so they work with me and everything and they said will you not going to hurt it anymore? There's no way you can injure it anymore. So we want you to run and I have ran with a band. That was so mad Charlie. I was so mad because this this German girl I had to leave and I'm coming off the first curve. She caught me and was going past me that was so bad to just reach out and grab her. She was going crazy. Like come on. Let's go inside with gold ink, you know, and so I'm running like that but the the last hundred it was really strange. I had almost an out-of-body experience. Where as I came off the curve. I was in second behind the German girl.

18:53 And I knew I had to do something but I could hear the Australian girl coming up on me. And I don't know from that point I prayed and I just said Lord have mercy and the next thing you know, I was handing off the Baton. I don't know what happened and handing off the potato, but it shows on the video where this the switch took place in my run and and I was able to sustain it and hold her off and that's how we got silver. But if I had not been hurt we would have won Gold.

19:54 It was a Jamaicans. Okay, and had not won in 48 because I went Arthur Wint had pulled up at the end of his third leg Lane so I couldn't finish the race. So here we go. And we have only imagine who was a pro football player our first leg with the second leg was a guy from Ohio State are in the third leg and Mal Whitfield, you know, yes.

20:36 It was

20:38 Went and another guy Beach but then

20:51 I'll get it in a half a second.

20:56 Come back. We'll get somebody later. I know that name.

21:09 Everyone have a world record.

21:11 Well, 4812 is Summit out. I have a substantial lead and lost it all.

21:22 22 herb herb the race which in effect.

21:34 I feel a little bit better. Not much better. When I call Iran 46:1. I never run 46:1 before okay, I can only ran 44 seconds. And so wow, so I end up at off to a field and he too.

21:57 Now, I can't even all the way around the track together, but when they came in when they finish the race the Germans.

22:11 We're just coming to stay with us how much we worked and the Germans broke the world record?

22:16 So that's how much we want money. That's what some of the yards or so to me. It was a great race, but was not near as much fun as it was in the individual tell me about your your your words ceremony and they turn videos of the queen of the world if set the world record olympic record. You've done some thought to be done and I was just as green as you can get have no idea what I had really done. I didn't know what it meant. But the one thing that happened when I got on the opold Ian and I turned to face the flag. I just remember hearing the National Anthem with all of a sudden it was like my life just start going like a video tape in my mind from the time when I was little head spinal meningitis.

23:16 Guide to very hard time of my life in the inner city. I mean everything was just coming back really fast to this point and and and I thought the national anthem was over. This is one thing that happened ABC Sports commentator came over.

23:48 And he said Madeline, we're we're so excited about what you've done and and the fact that you you do ran and you want anyone but substantial margin and we're just so surprising to me. I was trying to figure out why are they surprised because I had actually been undefeated for 2 years, but I was not considered to be among the people to even be in the finally left to win the thing. So, I'm still trying to figure out any since you do you do this all for some Gloria the glory and I'm thinking that's strange it is strange word for him to use. Well me being a Christian Glory means something different and I so I looked at him and said, oh, yeah, I'm doing this for the glory of God. I'm running for Jesus and he looked at me.

24:48 Boss and he said we're not talking religion here. And I said neither. Am I am trying to answer your question. He said we'll be right back after these messages. Thank you very much. Wonderful race, you know what just happened?

25:08 There's nothing like standing on that Center Pole or roster. Nothing like hearing your National Anthem being played with your singing. It it just what you know.

25:23 I never thought of it in Nashua say terms really be better for United States able to win that was at the Greek states of being the best in the business and I will say having just said that I didn't feel that National City about it. I sure felt Nash's National SC.

25:56 Store that serve hope until my flight hear my Anthem. Oh my God.

26:07 You you see that the flag go up and also you realize it's going up because of something I did. You know, it's overwhelming. You think I made my flag go up beyond all others because of something I did, you know people USB concert tell me about that description, but you never lose it treatable. Jones by when in the front of me to hurdles the

26:48 Head of the British Olympic Committee man name of Lord David buhrley gave me my metal. Okay, that's fine. But David buhrley ran against my father in 1924, but David Burley 1 mi race. The front of me to Harold's in 1928, but David early early with the British team in 1930 to bring the same like Iran relay. So early house is one of the great great houses in England and we have is that many times but imagine my thrill of you won't you come visit us at the Burley house. And so I went with his daughter just two years ago. We went back with his granddaughter was living it living right now in the amazing, but those are the things that

27:48 Hackers that 1924 was a charter fire year about that the running and my father.

28:08 I see a lot of horseback riding showing of horses butt fucks Honey that's worth it. But I still have missing some schools. He said you're going to go to school and do you want to go where I went? And so he took me to his is prep school where this coach Waterboy coach Ali had many of them because it was a Scot so well.

28:35 You were her. I'll see if I can make it back earlier. And that's where I started and inside to is crazy with inside of it 2 months ago. My father started writing me letters workouts. I should have in college in college.

28:55 Thought yes, he was a driving force and at the time I was not thinking about making me on the games. I was okay for 40. I got the college still just a bit. Okay?

29:17 The timer can you said I could when I should say when did you know you were Champion as a sophomore at my job just an okay, but it's a sophomore. I won the NCAA championships in the Colosseum Course, Los Angeles 46 m

29:38 Oh my gosh, baby. Maybe I'm a writer and that's when my life started when I went that did that race a lot of great races, but it was that start but I've always given all the credit for my running to my father sick Charlie good and it was it was my father device. You try your okay. We're looking you're okay quarter miler.

30:10 That's amazing. Well, I was actually discovered in high school. I was so shy and introverted I would never gone out for anything but it was during the time that President John Kennedy had the physical fitness challenge to see how are kids in this nation against other kids and I went in my gym class and took the test and had just some really high scores. Well a girl who hadn't been to school that had been kicked out for a little bit and have come back. She had to take the test and beat all my scores and so, you know, I was quiet and everything but I had a little tiger inside of me, you know, and so I asked my gym teacher I said, do you mind if I take the test over again? She said she want I said fine good so I took every day for three weeks straight.

31:09 Breaking all kinds of not realizing and finally she said, well it's closed now, you know, you can't do it anymore. But when they copulated my scores they found out that I had some of the highest scores in the nation about that not only in the school but in the nation's format, so she she said, you know, you need to go out for some sports. I said what what you got a basketball volleyball and track it okay for all three it within a year. We were state champions in basketball volleyball and track and my coach a host Hungarian saw me running realize. I didn't know what the heck I was doing but that I was really doing well and asked my mother if he could train me and that's started my career. I don't think I would have I never saw myself as a champion or they know Olympian Eli kids. Now today will come up to me and

32:09 I want to be just like I want to be I want to be an Olympic champion and I was like really are you willing to pay the cost? And but that was my mother trained me how to whatever I did to be thorough with it to whatever I start it finished. And so that was a part of developing a champion. That is true and my father bought my horse, but I had to fight all my feed and all my sure the horses. It was such a big deal until I got chickens and I raise chickens and that responsibility with no water. So you got to go break the weather in the Stream and your bus picks you up at your stable and selling.

33:10 I would get that experience that development responsibility for anything in the world. I think I think today's and sometimes try to make it too easy and not wanting their kids to experience what they experience but every person has their own journey and sometimes you have to allow your kids to go through things that are going to really Challenge and maybe even heard them and bring pain because in that that's where they learn to be strong and persevere through and not give up, you know, we have a lot of wimpy kids today because it's the first little thing and they want wine and go tell Mommy or Daddy and the parents like okay, you don't have to do that. I don't know if you know that whatever she put on my plate I had to eat you do not throw food away. I watched a I watch the mother just the other day pal. Lot of different junk food.

34:10 Food first of all on her her little daughters plate and then you know, she took a few bites of this a few bites of that and she's like finish Mommy.

34:23 And she said okay and just threw all that food wet. My mother would have said there are hungry people in Africa or all over the world. You going to eat that food. I have a question to ask you. How can I change your son triple jump so the question relates to

34:50 Did he get that from Mom? Did I get my thing from my father until how how the role of genetics he yes had the body of an athlete but that's not enough. You have to have the mind-set of a champion and a champion works when everybody else goes and sits down somewhere and both of my kids John and Lana outstanding athlete in had excellent work ethics one is because I never let them quit as if you want to start something you can beg me to start it, but you're going to finish and if after you finish it you want to change to something else. That's okay, but the reality is that you're not going to stop in the middle of it because it gets hard.

35:50 Now let's talk about your books. You bring the least two books. If not to I've written two books. You wouldn't two or more books. Why and how well the first book that was written. I actually offered it was called running for Jesus and the gentleman that caught me during the 76 wanted to just see what it was like for me to run an experience being an Olympian for the United States. That's that type of thing and we sat down at off the second book was I wrote the hope of glory. How was my autobiography and it was a very healing book for me good and yes, I had to relive some things that were very hard and in doing so it it really healed me. And so what about you did the Death Cure book do the same?

36:46 Not exactly. My book Running on purpose is exactly what I am. I've run my whole life.

36:53 Business and the rest on purpose but this was a businessman more cuz I says I got about the running and then all the business up how what really makes Corporation is great and sustainable value creation the part of corporate yourself. So I said, I've got to write that and so that was a shout out to the world how I feel about this and believe in all things like that have to be measured and and I didn't get that all done by the time I was really just stop it. And so

37:39 I got that done. I was pretty proud of it. Sounds pretty good.

37:44 But some of my friends are Charlie.

37:47 You got a lot of lessons learned out of the Olympic watch buried alive business stuff. I just write about that.

37:54 So I wrote one hurdle at a time dinner rolls. Your dinner was a race. I took the challenges of life and how you saw that and it outside by first book by like three or four times.

38:12 So still, are you still as it's still available for people with last name?

38:26 United now

38:29 You don't look it either great.

38:33 What is your legacy that you want to leave as you leave out? What do you want to leave behind?

38:40 Well

38:43 I thank you for the question.

38:46 This may sound funny cuz I have been a bullheaded on purpose workaholic all my life and I love every second of it. But I heard I'm really a family and I have nine show live 16 grandchildren and and the older you get the more important that becomes set in the world of fire and making my always kind of dumb things. But I know is what I'm doing with those children including I'm taking all children and grandchildren and their spouses.

39:28 To the Paris games in 1924, which will you be by fathers hundredth anniversary by 72nd and a half?

39:38 My first Vape

39:41 Wow.

39:44 That is so precious.

39:47 A picture

39:50 It's a dream.

39:55 Let me say.

39:57 With her back before

39:59 And it's been more fun than I've had for a long time out Riley. I love you.

40:10 Thank you. We just kissed in case you want to know the last thing is I'm there too, because I'm 71 and I'm realizing I've got a pass the Baton on of what I feel is my purpose in my purpose was to give back to my sport through chaplaincy. And so now I've raised up a 501 c 3 organization that is training Olympians and paralympians to take care of their own by going back in and and serving their Olympic sport. So I feel like for this was I born not for the running around in circles or all the metals are all the world records whatever but to to enhance another person's life with my life is what I live for and where do you stand when getting a masters?

41:09 Well, I L going to the Masters you talk about it. No, no, no. No, not only did I get my master of divinity. I also have my in my Doctorate of Ministry of us really old Wikipedia waited with my doctorate. We share so much baby for chapped to acquire develop. And now to The Giver on the rest is just what it is and it's been fun at 10.

41:55 Thank you.

42:00 Okay.