Marc Hoberman and Marcus Towns

00:04 Hi, my name is Mark hoberman. I in 57 years old today's date is Saturday, February 15th, 2020. We are in Chicago, Illinois and being interviewed by Marcus town a friend and Associate. My name is Marcus towns in 22 years old. Today is Saturday, February 15th, 2020 and we are in Chicago, Illinois and here interviewing Mark hoberman friends and acquaintances Mark. Welcome Chicago. Are you liking it so far? It's very cold out. Just tell me a little bit about yourself. I have ended career and retired about a year-and-a-half ago after 33 years in education as an English teacher. I also have a Tutoring company great success education for 27 years. We do online live tutoring Simon person in New York where we originated and I am also a published author.

01:03 And a motivational speaker and also academic life coach of the biggest thing is I know you brought your book today. You book. Can you just tell me a little bit about it and no jump right into it. You are so that your book is adversity defeated turn your struggles into strengths and tells my story of being diagnosed with epilepsy at the age of 16, which was difficult. It was especially difficult because it came after a move from Yonkers New York where I was born and raised on three weeks notice to move to Florida and new place new friends and the wall behind the wheel of my 1977 Ford Mustang. I did have a seizure. My cousin was in the car. We were visiting her brother on the way to visit him in college at University of Florida in Gainesville, and I had a petit mal seizure where I was very very

01:58 I'm unaware of what was going on pretty much incoherent and then it changed into what they call a grand mal seizure what I stiffened up but unfortunately instead of stepping on the brake I was unaware so I stomped down and stepped on the gas heading about 60 miles an hour to a a boost a toll booth and almost killed going into an embankment. Luckily. My cousin was able to steer through the toll booth and police came. This is told to me. I don't recall any of it and then two hours later. I came home with a diagnosis of epilepsy. I did not disclose it to anyone for 34 years until the book came out when I was 54 years old and a lot of podcast radio shows and various things things going from nobody knowing about my illness to thousands of people. So I've spoken it's schools and I continue to speak at schools now and I'm broadening my my range. I'm working out with the root, press very excited because that will give me why

02:58 Distribution that are traditional publisher they do believe in my vision and they going to help with book signings re-editing a new refresher cover. So they're going to help me really send message out to people in a wider Spectrum as long as you maintain the ability to hold on to that for thirty-some years while the first two years was a total depression and I was a I would say clinically depressed. I know that now as an educator for over three decades, but we never got a regular diagnosis. We didn't even talk to therapist about it just my neurologist and I was worried about the stigma unfortunately ignorance on my party. When is a teacher when as I say back in the day when I started teaching but I didn't even tell students who I knew had epilepsy also because before the HIPAA laws with access to all of their information and I knew they were kids on the same medication that I was on I saw them suffering.

03:58 I'm side effects. I was suffering and it was just the immaturity and me that lack of knowledge to discuss it with them and say I know you're hurting I'm hurting too and that's how I held onto that the book actually started. I started to write about 12 years ago, but put it aside as life does get in the way my son who was fifteen at the time. I was diagnosed with IBS irritable bowel syndrome and he started to get depressed also and I noticed that in him, I live through it experienced it and my wife asked me, you know, I can't leave this very well you getting doctors. You don't seem an emotional but you seemed detached but you're handling it very well. How are you doing that and then the teacher light bulb went off and said if I can help my son and my wife through this and myself now that I'm so related to the situation. It's now my son I can help other people and then that's when I decided to finish the book which I did and then start to tell my story, you know, it's schools.

04:58 Schools high schools colleges now we've been on the corporate level in the lake. I mean we kind of talked. We just met you know recently for some contacts, but we just talked about how you actually change the name of your book and it wasn't first you went by a different name because I had a different cover on it. Do you know the what was that did it bother you that you had to kind of like created we change some things to it or did you were you comfortable with those changes? I'll admit that's an excellent question. So in several parts Thornton bucks and I'm supposedly known for witty creative chapter titles book titles trip. So because it was about epilepsy. I called the book search and seizure which I thought was brilliant which other people thought it was a story about a car being seized for drugs people thought it was fiction looking at the cover and you know, the marketing aspect is something I wasn't so interested in I was interested in the writing aspect, but the truth is, you know,

05:58 To self publish an hour. They said liberal press picked it up, but I was told a year or two ago by some marketing people to change the name because the picture of the car was on the cover so just look like a very different story. So I did change it then to adversity defeated. I had some Publishers interested previously and one said to me we love the book. Could you make it longer and I said, well, it's a memoir. Do you want me to make things up and. Other people laugh. He didn't laugh so much and my other joke I made he laughed even less I said that if you want it long and maybe you could Tell the readers to read it twice. So I thought that was very witty the publisher not so much but it was meant to be because I'm thrilled to be with a real price as I said and because it's a personal story. I guess I would be much more amenable to making changes if it were fiction, but because it's a memoir nonfiction not that I don't want to but I'm more involved in the process of do I want to and having a discussion rather than doing it right away because it is my story and I

06:58 And I know that resonates with teens and parents. It's rare that a book comes out that could be read by that age range and that it's not have a Common Core Curriculum. I wrote for it. So it is also threatened several schools and we want to get back to even more schools. So yeah, it's an evolutionary process. So maybe if I was annoyed or concern in the beginning, I'm I'm pretty good with changed. I've had a roll with the punches in my life, especially after being diagnosed. So it was exciting in the end of all the changes for the better. And I know you added a chapter to the end of it. Correct that is correct came out. I have been very lucky. I have seen that in joining Facebook group speaking at schools Parent meetings that many epileptics off far worse off than I am some have 10 seizures a day. I've had 21 Caesars in my life.

07:58 But I was on an excellent medication started off called valproic acid then became Depakote and it was great. I did not have a seizure on that medication for many many many years because I suffered my first seizure as a teenager the doctor experimented with taking you off the medication and I did have a seizure 60 months after being off the medication, but I had that seizure in school in the hallway where I was teaching in the Bronx New York and unfortunately because nobody know when I kept it a secret even then they closed the school down for now because I fell and bleeding didn't know if I was stabbed if I was shot so then I went back on the medication. And again, we seizure-free. So on the medication I didn't have a seizure for 20 years plus.

08:46 About four or five months after the book came out. I was on medication for something and then 3 days later. I had to go to a different doctor and is on medication with something else but that script was filled at a different Pharmacy. So I think the computers maybe didn't talk to each other about the pills. I was taking did lower the efficacy of my medication and I had a petit mal seizure. Luckily for the medicine was in mean I was protected it did not turn into a grand mal seizure, but that was after the book came out and I had to switch medications and that's a difficult thing to do when you don't have a seizure for 20-25 years and you switch medications and now you're worried about being in the classroom. Will you faint will you have a seizure in front of the kids? Will they know what's going on? But it was easier for me to let them switch medications because of the speaking. I've been doing because of the reaction to the book. I did get myself 2 hours that my little pity party cry in the hospital room to myself. Why me why again knowing

09:46 Pity party would and I gave myself two hours in 2 hours was up. I had the doctor come in. I said make the switch but is that that was easier for me because of my experiences but the new medication that you know is working fine and I decided to add a chapter because I was so seizure-free for so long. I added a chapter called history repeats itself and I talked about it was actually the first time in my life. I knew I was having a seizure the other times I'm somewhat coherent. I don't know. It's interesting that three or four days later you get the deja vu effect. Will you start to see things that happened during the seizure movements you made this is the first time he's able to turn to my wife would never see me have a seizure and I said this feels like a seizure and I know it was never able to say that before so, you know, it's a very scary thing in the prologue I discussed it and I said, I have no memory of the seizure the blessing and the curse.

10:45 It's a blessing because who wants to see something like that who wants to remember something like that occurs? Because other people are seeing something that's happening to me that I'm unaware of and they're telling me things that happened and I've no clue what you're talking about. So. That was something I had to deal with his well, so if you had any impairments because of it or have you been I would say so the first 6 months different states have different laws. So in Florida at the time, I was diagnosed I want to say 1978. I was diagnosed you can't drive unless you're seizure-free for 6 months other states might be a year. I was seizure-free for a while, but not six months in a row. I would take three or four months into it. I couldn't take it anymore and I just got in the car and drove to the racquetball courts to play racquetball with my friends had a great time went to the car someone tap me on the shoulder. I turned around with my neurologist also play racquetball and fortunately for me and he said listen, I don't know what you're doing here.

11:45 But if I see you driving again, and it's not the six month. The safety of others. He said I have children who are on the road as well. I'm going to have to report it to the police. They can put your license and I said I understand I did not drive after that until I was six months seizure-free the impairments. I wouldn't call them physical impairments. I remember my girlfriend at the time her parents would let me drive her and now is a parent. I totally understand that but at the time I was just upset because they never called me in to ask about the illness. I did a lot of research on the illness the first two months. I researched it like crazy actually after the first two years when I was very depressed. I finally decide to take matters into my own hands and that's kind of the Mantra of the book. Don't let your struggle Define you you define you so I went into the library and did a lot of research that you could not

12:42 It was easily as you can do today. I spent several months researching on microfiche, which is a film system. Will you look at articles? I called the Mayo Clinic. I was in contact with the Epilepsy Foundation the doctors at the time in Florida were not good and we moved back to New York. So I was suffering impairments at that time. The medication was not good the side effects with toxic for me and there were there was some issues. So the impairments I put on myself quite honestly, I think you control your own attitude and it was so debilitating to me mentally at times even as a teacher I kept it to myself I was so well control lock leave that and I thank God I didn't really feel any effects. But I remember every few months I would wake up and it would take my pills and say but I cannot believe I have epilepsy. I know now how lucky I am that other epileptics as I said suffer seizures very often totally uncontrolled daily. In fact have to have service dogs things of that nature.

13:42 So the thing for me is I'm not the man. I am despite my illness on the man. I have become because of it. I think it may be a better teacher and makes me a better owner of the two reagency. I can tell when parents are struggling with their children when children are struggling it helps me deliver my lessons differently. It helps me deliver my training to school teachers my motivational speaking to students. You know, I moved from Yonkers New York to Florida age of 16 and that was very rough, but I can empathize even further with some of my students that I used to have before. I retired from different countries. I was displaced in the same country 1,400 miles away other people are thousands of miles away not speaking a language. So while other teachers can sort of sympathize with them, I can empathize with them and put myself in their shoes that makes my delivery method a little different that enables me to help people and help them open up more and you know, I think I'm blessed for that. So that has helped shape me.

14:42 I know why you so luckily physically. I'm fine side effects of the medication or either very negligible or non-existent. And so how is it worked with you know, your son has IBS like hasn't made you able to connect you no more closely to him on that and feel his struggles at all. That's going through that both of my book and read. However before I gave in the book, they knew I had epilepsy mention once we discussed once and was never discussed again. So now for my one son Scott who studied cognitive science at the Rutgers Honors College, he was home during the seizure. He tested me to make sure I wasn't having a stroke and did those things and we had a different connection when he read the book because they never knew about all the struggles my wife knew about some but when I met her and dated her I didn't tell her until 6 months into this incident at the college and I had to tell her because if she ever saw one, that's a no.

15:42 Not drunk. I'm not Stone like some of the other people in the college. I'm I'm having a seizure so I had to know let her know that but there was a different connection with my son. My other son Craig was diagnosed with ADD years prior. He was on medication with some difficult side of tracks and I could tell that the connection change a little bit. I'm close with both boys, but when they read the book, they start to see me in them and them in May so it was a wonderful thing and in speaking about Scott when he was diagnosed with IBS. He did not do well with doctors things got very slightly better we had specialist and I knew where to go who to go to contact but after a podcast interview,

16:24 Somebody said to me, you know, what made you finish the book and I express to them and I told him the story about my son and how that maybe now I could help others and she said what was his issue? I said IBS and she said do not hang up after the interview I said, okay, and then she later disclosed that she had IBS and Colitis and that she found a functional medicine doctor who is outstanding change your life forever. We hired a doctor and she did a tremendous job at helping my son with his stomach issues probably at 85% improvement over 6 months. It wasn't a quick fix that was lighter than the tunnel. So it's not just you know, my story is not a story about epilepsy the story about overcoming adversity and having your own support system and other support you parents friends, but if you don't have that on your own, you've got nothing so Scott started to support himself with his education.

17:19 Looking into IBS more thoroughly being having our long meetings on the internet with the doctor. She's in in Colorado and Allison, Dr. Allison hoffmaster and she helped him greatly but he took control he asked questions I discuss with him. Hey, she put you on a regular. What do you think about you want to put me on the same thing? Cuz I had some minor stomach issues and she's helped me greatly to but I don't just go to functional medicine router just don't go their traditional route. I mix them together and then I make my own decisions not enough people make informed decisions doctors a wonderful but they're not gods and it's your responsibility to make sure you get the best care in to research it and not just trust anyone fully because it's your life. It's your health better than anybody else would but near you talk a lot about you know, it's overcoming adversity is not until about the seizures. Can you dive into that a little bit more? I mean you kind of stressed a little bit here and there.

18:19 But when you say that, what are you what are you hoping people take away from it to Marcel. I want them to take away that I'm all about the support system. And again the whole mine for the book. Don't let your struggle to find do you define you so my mother came in after I was diagnosed with epilepsy. I heard my father talking and crying in the bedroom. She came out and said listen, you're good-looking boy, you're funny. I have a lot of friends and you know what, you're also an epileptic and you're going to deal with that and you are going to it's going to keep you grounded and my mother had suffered a stroke when she was 39 years old made a 95% recovery, but I followed, you know, I didn't follow her advice the first two years as I first went into a depression, but I was also displaced in any different different states with people you don't first happy to make new friends again, but that helped me realize that it's all about your attitude and you'll control and I want people to take that away. That's the takeaway from when I speak from reading my book even the way my Common Core questions are aligned when it's taught in school.

19:19 It's based on you taking the control and and you develop an attitude of Triumph a co-author to books at 1 call the journey to recovery I speak sobriety by Stephen Hill a recovering opiate addict who speaks at schools a lot each year. He's also in law school. Now, he was a former sat student. I knew he was found when I told him I thought was marijuana. I did not know what that point is getting close to the opioids and then some power when you said it was just a tremendous turn around for him but a long roller coaster ride. I co-authored a key that turned by Gloria key and she had a very tough time does youngster not knowing who her real?

20:04 Parents were with her father and bringing up for grown children and 17 nieces and nephews and being on welfare and being homeless only met her because of the book because I II III taught in public schools have her children. They read the book showed it to the mother and she contacted me. So I'm just so happy. I'm able to help other people bring their stories out there because it's about empowerment and I have power but you know many people but Glory empowers women and Steven Hill with his story and Powers teens to make the right decisions about who you hang out with it's about helping yourself. But again, I cannot emphasize enough having the ability to have your own support system because there are so many people have been in treatment or so many people who struggle and their parents are ill-equipped for this my parents did a very good job medically realizing that Florida was not the place for us and moving back to New York, but they did

21:04 Add to a great job emotionally and I can't blame them for that but had a book like mine existed. Then I think they would have fared better. They would have opened up and share this with more relatives reached outside a little box to find out more about the illness and not just put in the doctor's hands. Luckily. Dr. Eli Goldenson was probably one of the top five doctors in the country neurology tests at columbia-presbyterian later moved to believe by Montefiore Hospital. He saved my life and gave me my life back, but that was because they did some good medical research, but emotionally it was tough. I mean, I've I've had a seizure in a doctor's office and I didn't remember it. My father said you went to the doctor today and I said, no I didn't and he said yes you did and he took out his wallet and my teeth marks when it because I had a seizure in the doctor's office and previous to this I ask for the doctor's appointment because I was very busy at night, but I didn't know if it was medication or was the Seas

22:04 So I didn't want to tell my parents it was always late at night like 11. So I would actually watch Johnny Carson, which is The Tonight Show and people just know I guess it's Jimmy Fallon who's the new how many house in between and iPad a crawl into bed for two months because I was so dizzy. I couldn't walk and I did not want to tell my parents because they were struggling with it and I'm very depressed about it also, so I figured I would talk it out. It was only every night. It was due to my taking two pills at night or three pills at night of a drug called Dilantin and that was too toxic for me and that made me dizzy when I finally told my father and mother that's when I said, what am I going to the doctor? He said What you talkin about you were just at the doctor and then I saw the teeth marks because back then and the seventies they would say put something in the mouth of the person having a seizure. So he or she does not bite their tongue.

23:03 They really should swallow your tongue. And that's it. That's a fallacy. You really don't swallow your tongue, but can't bite your tongue. When I had the seizure in the Bronx that I discussed earlier. I bit my tongue very badly chipped my tooth. That was a $2,000 replacement. But the tongue was so bad that I had to go to special dentist because I tell people this all the time, you know how this feels sort of because when you chew gum while you're eating and you bite your tongue and you say, oh my God kill me now and it's horrible. This was 40 times worse when it happened. I didn't feel it was a seizure when I came out of the Seas red and feel it but two days later for at least a couple of weeks. I did feel like it was a very very painful more than being physically painful. It was an emotional reminder that I had that pain because I suffered a seizure. It was a further reminder because I suffered a seizure in a school that had to go back to in a few days and did not disclose. It was a seizure. I had to think of a story the story was that I had a very bad reaction to antibiotic and fainted.

24:03 My carpool people were friendly with me and those were two people I did tell because I had to assure them that after a month. The doctor actually said I was cleared to drive wasn't a problem. I was off medication. I was going back on medication. But when I told those two people in the carpool, which was probably 20 years 15-20 years after my first seizure, they were two of nine people who know and that includes doctors. So very few people knew my aunt called me and said while I read your book, I love that. You're such a good fiction writer. I said, thank you, but it's not fiction. And she said what are you talkin about? You don't have Apple apps and I said, yes, I do and we were closed and she could not believe that my father her brother never told her but there was a stigma attached so that's why my story resonates with people with gender issues with people being bullies divorce in the family. It just adversity is adversity in any form physically mentally and my story helps Empower people. I've had people get

25:03 And then and saved 300 people with 600 people and in order torium just admit things and say thank you so much for a story. I just want to tell people now that that one person said I'm deaf in one ear and I never told anybody someone got up once in an English class. Why was doing a writing out workshop? And she said I have up a epilepsy also and I'm on that medication. She started crying I see why you crying. She said these are happy tears. I'm crying because I've had it for 2 years and nobody knows our friends almost fell over there was sitting next to her. She said nobody knows I've epilepsy but now it now the class knows and I'm fine with it. So that's something that's why I love teaching with touching the lives of young people in that way is incredible, but I know how I suffered until nobody and I know that my parents told one or two teachers in Florida and I refused to tell them that the teachers called me in and said your parents, you know said you have epilepsy. What should we do if you have a seizure and I said I couldn't tell you I don't know when I have a seizure so, you know, I told him that I guess you can stick something in my mouth so I don't swallow.

26:03 My tongue that was the saying that but other than that nobody ever checked in with me again. No teacher sent me two weeks later three-week months later. How are you feeling? It wasn't that connection and that's what I was known for in education with my connection it when I became a dean of discipline for six or seven years. I handle people with with behavior issues differently. I wasn't about punishing. I was about changing and improving Behavior plan in that in that way and too many people here the kids but don't listen that's a very big difference in education. So when I do teacher workshops and classroom management and effective delivery workshops, I wrote the book called highly effective teaching strategies winning in the classroom. I teach my methods and it's not magic. It's just things some people don't think of unfortunate fortunately depends on your attitude. I was able to to fit my own mole. That's how I wanted to deliver these things and help children, but a lot of it was shaped by my diagnosis that I had as a teenager and so

27:03 You know, we doing conflict resolution and mediation training schools with with teachers and parents. And of course students to train the De Pere mediators. This is always in the back of my mind always knowing that when I've spoken to Tri-State camping conference and other conferences and I'm in front of people. It's very very very small chance cuz I'm I'm so well control the medication but I ain't on the back of my mind. I have to be in touch with my body. Am I dizzy? How am I feeling a my cognizant and I always am but there is a chance that I could have a seizure in front of these people. So that keeps me grounded as well. That makes me very happy that they're having me in to speak and what not, but I have to always know myself physically and emotionally and how is my brain feeling I really can't get a little sleep when I'm traveling on in time zones. I have to make sure I watch that lack of sleep does not cause epilepsy but it does create the possibility of a seizure in those who have epilepsy.

28:03 And I have to really be careful about that. So what are the things you just like? Did you have to kind of give up in order to work that mean you said so it's not lack of sleep. However lack of sleep. Can I play role? Was there anything that you've had to miss out on of you giving up in life because of epilepsy, I mean you knew early on but so I'd have to say that the only thing I've given up and I didn't want to but I was under orders for my wife. I used to love to swim. I like exercise but swimming is great. And I really enjoy it and my phone rings a lot and it doesn't ring in the pool cuz I'm not swimming in it. So it's really some quiet time for me to think and do what I need to do but I used to swim in the morning before school. And sometimes they were there was nobody on our nerves in the pool and quite honestly what I swam. The person was the lifeguard was reading and doing his homework him to the teenager who is lifeguarding before.

29:03 Before-school and headphones on so unless I had a seizure very loudly and scream very loudly we were going to have a problem. So if I'm at hotels, you know, my wife will come down. If I'm with the family the boys will come down and watch them alone. It's just you can't you can drown and 6 in of water for people who are drunk and fall down hit their head, you know, if you're unconscious that's just you know, you you could drown I remember my first night at Albany. I heard wash my hands in the bathroom when I heard a big thump in one of the Stalls Suny Albany and I heard some bubbling and I open the stall and someone who is drunk fell hit his head was unconscious and absolutely would have died would have drowned in in the toilet and I grabbed him and pulled him out and what are unlucky day for him for a lucky day for me because what I didn't realize until we were at a bar two nights lady was so thankful, but somebody started a fight or something or an argument with me and this guy just

30:03 How quickly he was be black belt instructor for the dorm. So of all the people to save that was a good one because he had to pay back or not. I needed it because I'm not violent, but I thought that was pretty cool. So there's a small guy to but if you were 250 lb in football player, you stood no chance with him so I could save that's a good one you're so so essentially so you're not teaching anymore. Are you you're not I'm not in the classroom classroom full time for well over three decades in June 2018. I did retire and I could have told another 10 loved it. I love being out of the classroom to repair mediation conflict resolution. I always did other things outside of the classroom to keep it fresh cuz I'm very selfish teacher if I'm not happy and having a good time. I tell the kids to be a fun class, but if you don't behave while I'm having a good time, you're going to pay the price because I'm selfish. I got to be enjoying this so I stopped but that's why I love going in and doing

31:03 Management seminars for teachers but I also did the presentation yesterday at the alive Center in Naperville with his great with about fifteen the middle school children and I can save that teaching I can sit out and still listen delivery lessons of life. I always that's what I want my life to be so I didn't retire to retire I retire from teaching to expand the my speaking business Michael watering business working in corporate because I did not want to take so many days off from school. I retire with a hundred eighty Days In my sick bank, which is kind of unheard of so, I'm very dedicated not to call when it comes to showing up to work, but I had to make a decision if I want to send my message to more than a hundred kids. I teach every day I need to do this kind of full time. So I'm retired from education, but I'm far from a tire and I'm busier now, but it's on my terms, which I feel very lucky and blessed to be able to do do you ever feel stress from all the work you're doing right now like to stress play a role in to you know, Apple.

32:03 See you at all like Canada fact it interesting questions. So stress does not cause epilepsy and stress can absolutely

32:14 Start a seizure in someone was a tendency toward epilepsy. It hasn't been diagnosed yet or is epileptic. So they feel that that's why I had to see her because I all the combinations are there. I was very stressed moving to a new place. Florida. I was at lack of sleep cuz you left at 5 in the morning because it was a 4-Hour drive and I said I want to get the college experience. I want to get there at nine am leaving at 5 a.m. To lack of sleep. And I didn't I was so excited. You will even get that for 5 hours sleep. I allowed it to myself and that's what started that but I have a very strong philosophy about stress when I speak I say the audience is what causes stress too much homework fighting girlfriend boyfriend. Should I said listen? This is what causes stress nothing and everything for example who get stressed when they do things at the last minute work, whatever projects lot of people raise their hand. I said, okay that causes stress for you. That makes me Thrive. I only do things at the last minute. I'm the king of girl procrastination, but I made it work for me.

33:14 So when it comes to stress.

33:18 I can see you create your own. It's how you deal with it that creates the stress and that's why I help people with also, so I do have some stress because sometimes you know, I'm very busy doing things and I want to do an excellent job and I and I don't do cookie cutter presentations. I learned about the school and if the problems if I speak at 3 schools in one day, they're very different if I tutor two kids in a day, it could be the same subject to deliveries is based on their weaknesses and strengths. So, you know, I just take a step back if I start to get stressed out. It's just making sure and sometimes I'm harder on myself and I should be distressed starts. I can put it in check and it's a hard thing to do because you know, they're adults who can't do that ever, but if you go to workshops and you should hear me speak and stop and read books online, but a lot of self-help books. I want to see what other people are doing. I never stop learning. You cannot be in education and stop learning so that helps me deal with the stress also, so

34:18 We're almost out of time. So I just want to leave you with one kind of last question. Final. What do you think the future holds for? You know, what do you see going forward for you? And for Mark, so I'm trying to make alliances with we're going to talk to several present athletes professional athletes former athletes. I'm partnering with people who do motivational speaking and corporations and schools. I want to partner with them. I still do my own thing. They still do their own thing, but I'm in talks with many people who believe in my mission in my philosophies in my vision and we want to bring the message out there and work together. So I want to you know, I'm going to the book is going to be released by LaRue press in June and I'm working with my publicist Alby Davis. I'm doing a lot more speaking but also it opens up the door for being with a traditional publisher for a book signings and a lot more meetings. I just love meeting and helping people. So I want us to go Global. I want the message to go Global. It doesn't have to be more.

35:18 Member's Mark Obama's message is more important right now than the person mark. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thanks so much.