Marci Taylor (Hayez) and Dr. Denise Gates

[00:07] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Hi, my name is Marci Taylor-Hayez Hayez My age is 51. Today's date is Monday, November 7, 2022, Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm here today with Doctor Denise Gates. She's my colleague.

[00:24] DR. DENISE GATES: Hi, I'm Doctor Denise Gates, and today's date is November 7, 2022, Las Vegas, Nevada. And I'm here with Miss Taylor-Hayez Marci Hayez and she is my colleague.

[00:41] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Doctor Denise Gates. We're going to be talking about organizational socialization. So tell us, what is organizational socialization?

[00:51] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, Taylor-Hayez organizational socialization has to do with the process of learning the culture of a profession and organization so that one knows how to enact roles as organizational members. I see it as an ongoing process of learning the ropes of an organization. As jobs change, leaders change, expectations change, and other changes may occur. And so I become intrigued with the process of organizational socialization as an undergraduate student. And I started doing research on this later when I got to my PhD program and actually my master's program, and I ultimately got a book published that talks about this. And my socialization model was published by the publishing house of South China University of Technology back in 2009. And I've actually gotten a research award for my work and I've gotten to present my research at national and international conferences. So I'm quite proud of my models.

[01:53] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That's amazing. So doctor Gates, tell us about the organizational socialization model you got published.

[02:00] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, in my research on organizational socialization, I discovered that scholars didn't agree on how employees experienced socialization. In fact, they didn't even agree on the terminology to utilize to describe the process. The term assimilation was previously utilized and employed to refer to socialization. But many of the scholars rejected that term. They called it antiquated and offensive. They took offense to it because the notion of stripping away one's culture in favor of the dominant culture was completely unacceptable. So previous renditions of organizational socialization, such as in the research of Javelin, Fred Javelin assumed that all employees reach metamorphosis, for example. And that has to do with the whole notion of everybody becoming accepted by the organization, being married to the organization, and being fully embraced. And the reality is a lot of people don't experience organizations like that. Women, some people of color were saying that that model didn't accurately capture the essence of what they were experiencing. So feminists were taking issues with the previous renditions of socialization by scholars such as javelin and others. And so feminists rejected the notion of suggesting that some of them considered the previous renditions of socialization to be sexist, to be racist, or to be some of the other isms that were problematic for these people. And so my job as a scholar was I studied the argument. I studied the criticisms. I studied the assertions by the previous scholars. And then Javelin says, you know what? Instead of criticizing my work, why don't you come up with your own? And so I did. I actually went up to javelin at a conference many years ago, and I said, javelin, I looked at the various renditions of socialization. Nobody had a model like mine on the table. And so I said, javelin, I created my own own version of organizational socialization. I'd like to show it to you. I showed it to him, and he loved it. And he told me to get it published, but he ended up dying before I could publish it. So I ultimately did publish it. And so that's how I got my model published. In 2009. I studied the organizational socialization literature and looked for gaps in the literature or complaints or what was lacking in the literature. And then I had my model peer reviewed by five chinese scholars, and it was published initially in China, and then subsequent models got published in the United States. So should I go into an explanation of my model? Taylor-Hayez

[04:43] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Yes, go right ahead.

[04:45] DR. DENISE GATES: Okay. Well, my model encompasses several steps in anticipation. It talks about how people begin to anticipate their organization and what that might entail. They get messages from family members, media, other organizational members, from a plethora of sources, and they conjure up ideas of what it might be like to experience that organization. And then they encounter the organization. That's when they become face to face with the organization. And they can experience culture shock if their understanding or anticipations are met or not met. So if their expectations are met, they have a good experience. But when their expectations are not met and they encounter culture shock, they might feel like they want to lead. Depending on how severe the shock is, then they experience individualization. That's whereby they make the role their own. They enact the role based upon what they believe their role should look like. And that varies from person to person because we're all unique individuals. And then depending on how well you individualize your role, the organization can decide to accept you or to reject you. Or you can decide to accept the company or reject the company. So if you come into the Organization and you make your mark on it, and the Organization like youre your influence, they will accept you. But if you come into the Organization and you change it in ways that they don't like or inconsistent with their values, they might reject you, and so you might advance to exit. So you might become disengaged, which means you're not focused on the mission anymore. It might mean that you don't feel like you're an essential worker. And so as a result, you know, you might feel that your place in the organization is not what you thought it would be, or could be or should be. And so consequently, you exit. And so in my model, I also look at the importance of the context, because I believe that we have to consider people's personal experiences, the Organization, the largest society and the culture, because I think there's a simultaneous influence that helps people to make sense of the organization and to know how to enact their role. And I think that communication is central to the entire process of organizational socialization, because that is what it's all about. It's how you're communicating and how you're enacting your role. In my earlier rendition of my model, I had co cultural theory in the center. But then I realized that co cultural theory comes under communication because communication is much broader and I didn't want to limit my employee, my organizational members, to just co cultural theory. So that's why I later researched use communication, because I think co cultural theory comes under communication because it's a kind of communication. And then the dotted line that you see on my model talk about or may indicate they illustrate the indirect connection that employees have with the various phases. Not everybody experiences all phases, and some people don't stay in the same phases for the same amount of time. And I believe the process is ongoing because when you go into the workplace, sometimes you get new roles, you get new jobs, you have new leaders, and so the process is ongoing. But I created the model so that it can be tailored to meet the various needs of different people. And then last year, I had the opportunity to interview or to get feedback from 70 employees employees. And I asked them if the model accurately captured the essence of their experiences. All 70 people said yes. Your model does in fact capture the essence of how we experience workplaces. And so I was pretty excited about that.

[08:13] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That's awesome. Thanks for sharing the phases of your model. So, Doctor Gates, what role do superior subordinate relationships play in organizational socialization?

[08:24] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, it can be argued that an employee's relationship with his or her supervisor is the most important workplace relationship because supervisors can influence one's ability to secure promotions, raises resources and access to other things that they need in the workplace. So an ineffective supervisor can limit one's ability to advance in a particular organization, whereas a great supervisor can serve as an advocate and help that person to attain success. That is why it's imperative that employees ensure that they have a good organizational fit before they accept the job. Long before you join an organization, you have to interview the organization to make sure it's a compatible fit with who you are, with your lifestyle, and that the role is right for you. So it's not just about the organization interviewing you, you are interviewing the organization to make sure that it's going to be a good fit for both of you. Superior excuse me supervisors shape socialization and terms in terms of the information they share, the learning they promote or advocate for employees, the mentoring they provide, or the access to effective mentors. Supervisors who preclude employees from having access to learning opportunities and who fail to share information that will facilitate workplace growth may impede an employee's ability to progress within that organization. So it can be devastating if you have a bad supervisor, it can be devastating for socialization, it can be devastating for your experience in that organization. So that's why you have to have a great organizational fit. You have to make sure before you join that organization that you've done your homework and that you don't go blindly into that process. Superior supervisors play a crucial role in the process. If you have an ineffective supervisor and you like to stay in an organization, you need to be strategic on how you're successful. You might strategically locate mentors within and outside of your organization. You might be friend seasoned coworkers who can help you learn the ropes. You can join professional associations so that you can network in your field and contemplate your next employment opportunity. So even if you get stuck with a bad boss, it's not the end of the world. There are ways that you can overcome that bad supervisor.

[10:43] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Thanks for sharing that, Doctor Gates. I agree that you should do your homework and not go into any organization blindly. So tell us, tell us the findings of your research on superior subordinate relationships.

[10:57] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, Taylor-Hayez in 2021 I published research on superior subordinate relationships in the Handbook of Research on multidisciplinary perspectives on managerial and leadership psychology and the publishing house. For that was IGI Global. And basically what I did was utilizing phenomenology, which is a way of doing research. This research presented the same themes which emerged from interviews with 37 professionals who were african american and latino american men and women from various organizations. Several themes surfaced from my interviews, but the most notable was the employees regarded supervisors as friends or non friends professionals. Employees who reported being friends with their bosses seemed to also report having more rewarding security supporter interactions. These relationships with bosses sometimes created other opportunities for employees in their respective organizations, opening doors for employees that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to open. So let me give you some examples. Some employees considered their buddies, their bosses, their bosses their buddies. And let me give you a quote from a mexican american man who worked at a restaurant, and he reported this about his boss. He says, when we're at work, we are professional, but when we're outside of work, we have a friendship. This subordinate said he enjoyed going to movies and clubs with his boss, as well as other coworkers in his company. And similarly, an african american man who worked at a different restaurant said that he was friends with his caucasian american boss before accepting the job. And so people who had some sort of friendship, professional friendship with their supervisors, seemed to have more rewarding relationships. On the other hand, when subordinates were not friends with their superiors, they tended to work harder to overachieve in order to gain the approval of their supervisors and their work. This leads to burnout in the workplace. And as you know, burnout can lead to resignation. And so let me give you some examples of some of the quotes here. So here's a quote from an african american female accountant, and here's what she said. And she did not consider her supervisor to be her friend. She says, I don't talk to my boss on a personal level because I don't think I should have to. You do have other people who talk to her on a personal level. My colleagues talk to her on a personal level constantly, and they have that personal thing going on, and some of them do not perform or should not be around today. So she's saying they don't perform well. And then she says, I have seen time and time again that there are certain people who can come into this position that I'm in and not meet their targets and their goals, and they will stay here for years. And then there are people like me. If I don't reach my targets and my goals, in two years, I could be gone. So this lady is essentially saying that because their friends is the supervisor, they get certain privileges that she doesn't feel that she enjoys because she's not her boss's friend. So employees who were not friends did not feel that they had the same amount of job security as people who were friends. Because if you make a mistake and you're not your boss's friend, you're not given that grace that you enjoy if you are the boss's friend. So when bosses are too close, another consideration is when bosses are too close to their friends. Sometimes they lose objectivity, and they permit these employees to stay in organizations perhaps longer than they should stay. So I would encourage these supervisors to carefully evaluate subordinates based upon actual performance and evaluate how much value they're adding to the company versus how great of a friend they are. It's nice to have friends in the workplace, but if these people are not adding value, they're costing you dollars. They're adding to corporate waste. And keeping someone who does not add value results in a waste of workplace resources.

[14:50] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Thanks for sharing the breakdown on different phases and examples of workplace employees and bosses. So how can traumatic workplace betrayals shape organizational socialization and superior subordinate relationships?

[15:06] DR. DENISE GATES: That is a great question, Taylor-Hayez Let's start by defining traumatic workplace betrayals. When organizational members encounter experiences they regard as betrayals, and these betrayals are above and beyond the typical workplace betrayals, employees may find that they're experiencing trauma. So these traumatic experiences are like any other trauma, even outside of the workplace. Let me give you some examples of some traumatic workplace betrayals. Example number one, your boss or someone in the organization that you trust, sexually harasses you and uses hidden cameras to secure new pictures of you. That's a traumatic experience. It might even be difficult to go back to that workplace because the trust is now gone. You've broken that person's trust. Another example, someone you trusted makes a fraudulent allegation against you in the workplace that causes you to lose your job or your standing in the profession. That would be a traumatic experience for some people. Another example would be your boss steals your research and publishes publishes that research with his name. That would be another example of a traumatic workplace experience. Let me give you another one. Someone you trusted in your workplace steals your client after telling you the client elected not to do business with your company. You learned a year later that the client you introduced to the firm is working with your colleague, and you're not making any money on the deal as promised. So you bring somebody on board to your company, and the company leads you to believe, oh, you know, they heard your pitch and they rejected our company, and they're going to do business elsewhere, only to find out one year later that they didn't reject your pitch. They did say yes, but they were simply paired up with a different colleague or consultant, and they're making the company's making money, but you're not getting your commission because somebody misrepresented the client's desire to work with you, and so you're not making money. So that can be traumatic because they're basically stealing part of your salary or your commission. So that would be traumatic because they're deceiving you and there's deception involved, and the reality that you thought was present is not present any longer. And then the final example that I provide is your boss, is her gossiping about you to clients or to your colleagues and attempting to turn them against you. These are all examples of workplace betrayals that might make it difficult to be socialized in an organization. Some people end up leaving because they're so traumatized by these experiences. The lack of trust makes it so difficult that they don't even want to stay. So traumatic workplace betrayals can shape how employees interact with others. They can cause organizational members to be less trustful of others. They may cause employees not to trust their reality within the company. Some encounters could shape what and how employees learn, as well as how they interact with others. And so organizations can alleviate problems stemming from traumatic workplace betrayals by hiring the right people from the start. Making sure you hire people who have values consistent with the values of your company, because if you have incongruent values, it's very difficult to get a good organizational fit, and then it's not surprising that you're going to have problems. You have to hire the right people from the start. You have to consistently display ethical conduct. You have to be transparent with your employees so that they're not shocked or surprised by things that happened. You have to embrace open communication, not be deceptive, not lie, not mislead them, not lead them on. You have to give employees notice about decisions that affect them so that they can plan and prepare, modeling behavior that you want to see in others. And if somebody is engaging in deceptive behavior or unethical behavior, letting them go, getting rid of them, or maybe taking action against them to communicate to the company that that behavior is not rewarded and it's not wanted. Counseling may also be helpful for employees having a hard time contending with the trauma because they feel so deceived. An example that also comes to mind is, I talked to a man who was from another country, and he was working in the United States. He was from Jamaica, he was working in the United States, and he was traumatized when his company fired him. All of his colleagues knew that the boss didn't like him. The boss had been speaking negatively about him. The boss had been contemplating firing him for quite some time. He was completely clueless. He didn't have any idea that they wanted to fire him. And so when he got his termination letters, he felt betrayed because he felt like all that time he had worked for the company. Nobody told him that they didn't like him. Nobody told him they were having issues with his work. He thought that they were terminating him because of his race. But the boss felt like his work was falling off. And so he felt betrayed because he thought he was among people who liked him, people who celebrated him, people who appreciated his work, only to be terminated right after he had bought a bigger house. He had already had a house in the city that he was working in, but he decided to upgrade and get a nicer house that was more expensive and larger, not realizing that he's on the brink of being terminated. So he felt betrayed and end up leaving that company. He actually sued them and they settled out of court with him. But the whole notion of he felt misled and deceived by that experience, and it caused a lot of trauma for him. And people who experienced traumas like this that talk about it over and over and over. So not only is the employee adversely affected, but the company is adversely affected because these employees are going around talking negatively about these companies. And so it's also in the company's best interest to not allow employees to experience traumatic betrayals, because when they do, they begin to badmouth the company. And they tell these stories over and over for years to come. And so that's what workplace betrayal is. Traumatic betrayal is.

[20:56] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Thanks for sharing that, Doctor Gates. And I agree. You know, I've heard stories about some of those examples where people were, you know, workplace trauma in the workplace and they decided to leave because they weren't being treated fairly. And I agree, ethical. Ethical conduct is key. Now tell us, what are your, earlier you talked about burnout. So what are your thoughts about burnout and engagement in the workplace?

[21:20] DR. DENISE GATES: That's a great question. Burnout and engagement, those happen to be hot topics in our community right now. When employees feel like their jobs lack purpose or when they don't consider themselves essential workers, sometimes they exhibit what has been referred to as quiet quitting. When you hear quiet quitting, the first thing you think of, you think of somebody leaving. But quiet quitting doesn't involve them leaving. It just involves them checking out emotionally in your company. So, for example, they stay in the company, they're just nothing giving their all. So this means that they only do the minimum requirement. They just are collecting a paycheck. So they don't add much value. As employees who are engaged, they don't see how their work impacts a larger organization, or perhaps they don't even care how their work contributes to the larger organization, this is problematic because it's costing companies money. Employees need to feel that they are matter, and like they're adding values to companies. Employees need to be heard, they need to be involved, and they need to feel appreciated. According to Gallup, an american analytics and advisory company based in Washington, DC, employee disengagement has increased, and it's becoming a huge problem. Unengaged workers around the globe are costing companies $7 trillion in productivity. So the lack of engagement is costing companies money, and so something has to be done about this. Gallup says that organizations are 20% more productive when employees are engaged and when employees are engaged. Gallup is saying that companies are 20% more profitable. So you make more money when employees are engaged. And so that is incentive for companies to keep their employees engaged. So these employees who are over. Excuse me, who are over cheating to compensate for the slackers in order to get noticed, sometimes they suffer burnout. So if you go into an Organization and you've got 30% of the workers who are not engaged, then you've got this huge gap where there's work to be done that's not being done or people who are only doing the base the bare minimum, but they're not doing as much as they could be. And then you have the overachievers trying to do everything, and they're getting burned out. So it's not balanced. And that balance is creating a problem for companies, and it's causing companies to lose good workers and to lose money because of the lack of productivity. Wow.

[23:48] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: $7 trillion. That is a lot. But I can understand. I mean, because there's a lot of people out there that feel they're not being hurt or treated fairly. And so you say they're quietly quitting. So they're just there for a paycheck because they need the paycheck. So that all makes sense to me. So, doctor Gates, how can organizations foster engagement and inspire retention?

[24:10] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, a lot of companies are realizing that employees need to feel that they are there for a reason. They want to give people a purpose so that they can have a reason, a motivation to stick around. So employees need to feel heard. They need to be treated with value. One way to do this is by having regular weekly meetings with them so supervisors can ask them, how are things going? What can be done to enhance your job? How can you improve your organization? Years ago, before I got my PhD, I worked for an insurance company. And I thought that the boss at that insurance company, one of them, I had numerous bosses while I was there. But one boss in particular did a great job of meeting with me once a week. And what I liked about this boss, and I thought she did a great job. She always asked me, how can we make things better? How can we improve the company? She would ask me about things that had nothing to do with my job, but had something to do with the company. She would say, hey, I'm working on this project. What do you think I should do to make it better? Or, I'm working on that assignment, how can I enhance this? And so she would actually listen. I mean, the meeting would be scheduled for 30 minutes, 45 minutes. Sometimes we'd be in there an hour, hour and a half, because I might share an idea that she liked, and she would actually sit and listen to me give her the details on how I thought she should carry something out. Well, I love that job because it gave me meaning, it gave me purpose. And what I also liked about that job is I felt that I was adding value to my larger community because not only were we selling insurance, but I know that I think 1% of the proceeds from that insurance went to the community in the form of sharing grants. So people who are financially disadvantaged or struggling or had a hardship, maybe they had a car accident, maybe a loved one died, or maybe somebody lost a job, they could come to the company, complete an application, and they would be considered for what we called a sharing grant. And I love the fact that we were giving back to the community and we were helping others. So this added more value to my job, and it made me enjoy working there because I knew I was doing something meaningful, not just for myself, but for the larger community. And I enjoyed being a part of something meaningful and that was larger than myself. And so it's important to engage people and to give them a purpose so they have a reason to stick around. Often points opportunities to learn and grow. People want to improve. I remember when I worked at the insurance company, I read every book in the library of the company library that had anything to do with learning and growing and improving my skills. And I was so hungry for knowledge and information that I actually left the insurance company and I enrolled in grad school. I just was so intrigued by what I was learning, and I just wanted to continue allowing training and development to be an ongoing process, not just something you do during the onboarding phase, you're doing it on an ongoing basis. So employees are constantly learning, challenging them, talking to employees about career planning, asking them what the future holds for them, getting an understanding of what motivates them and what their goals are so that you can tie into their goals and you can show them how the organization is helping them meet their goals. And so there might be opportunities in the organization for them to do something different based upon what their individual goals are and based upon the goals of the organization. Making sure that you have employees and jobs that compliment their lifestyles. Being flexible, you know, offering them remote work when appropriate, hybrid work, traditional work. Making sure that balance fits who they are and making sure you get the right people plugged into those roles. Letting employees shape the hours that they work. That helps them to feel a sense of ownership so that they are committed to this process versus being stuck with hours that somebody gave them without talking to them. Being people centered within an organization. When you're people centered, people feel more engaged, they feel like you care, they feel like staying. When you're market centered, you have more profitability. But it's good to have a balance. Balance is good. You need to balance a need to focus on people and the objectives of the company. I am not advocating for people to focus so much on people that they don't meet the needs of the company. There needs to be some balance there. You also have to be focused on the market. You have to focus on the needs of the company so that you can be profitable. Because if you're, you're having so much fun and you're partying, but you're not being profitable, the company is going to fail. So you need to have a nice balance between the two.

[28:44] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That's all. Great information, Doctor Gates. I mean, I do agree that an employee's voice needs to be heard and you also need to get that employee, not only, you know, teaching them to see what their skill set is in that organization, but, you know, getting to know them and their kids, you know, birthdays, anniversaries, show that you care and also, you know, seeing and letting employees have the opportunity to advance in that organization. I believe all are key components now. Doctor, Doctor Gates, how has Covid changed the organizational socialization of employees? But also what can companies do to overcome the challenges to organizational socialization that may have surfaced or become more prevalent during the COVID era?

[29:30] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, Covid may be required in place to be a little more strategic in their plans to be socialized. When you work face to face in the same building, those chance encounters whereby you run into seasoned professionals in the break rooms or in the hallways, those are great opportunities. However, during the remote work, you don't have that, you don't have those encounters. Therefore, organizations have to make a concerted effort for organizational members, especially newcomers, to interact with each other. They have to be more intentional about these interactions because they don't just happen in the same way during COVID that they were happening when you were working face to face. So that means mentors become especially important. They're more crucial in this process. Work groups can be helpful. Networking groups are helpful. Virtual activities designed for employees to get to know each other are helpful. Create more ongoing opportunities for people to be exposed to, opportunities to learn more information and to be trained. I volunteer right now with what we call Nevada talks, and we are encouraging people to get out and vote and to register to vote and to get out and vote and to find out what they need to do to vote and make a plan to vote. And one thing that we've done that I think has really been beneficial is when the team leader wants to meet with us, sometimes she will call a meeting, even if we don't necessarily have to work. She gets us together, and she has a virtual conference with us, and she encourages us to do our work on the conference. So, for example, a couple days ago, she called a meeting with us, and even though I didn't need anything, she's like, Denise, even though your work is done or you don't need anything specifically from me, or maybe you don't have any questions, she says, why don't you go ahead and do your work during the call? So here's what happens. You begin to socialize. You interact with the people there. You're having fun. It's more fun. You're getting your work done. And while you're working, should you have a question, the team leader is there. Your colleagues are there. The other colleagues are benefiting from you asking questions because you might ask a question that they didn't think to ask if they haven't progressed enough in that project to realize they're going to need that question answered. And so they're benefiting from her having conversations with you. So having those work groups, those virtual work groups, allowed other people to benefit from the knowledge being shared during those conversations. And so that was great, you know, during a Covid environment where we're not meeting face to face. So, and keeping in mind remote working can be challenging for extroverts because they're used to dealing, being around a lot of people. So for some people, remote working can be lonely because they're extroverts. They're used to being in the workplace with a lot of people. And then, on the other hand, conversely, remote work for some people has enhanced the work life balance for people because now they get to be around their children more and they're loving that extra time at home. And so for some people it's been great, but for some people, it has not necessarily been all that great. Computer. Another factor to consider, computer media and communication can be very different. People may be more reticent about asking questions via email and text, but they would ask face to face. And what comes to mind is this vice president that I met when I worked for the insurance company. This is a vice president who was the first female vice president at this insurance company. And so going in, she was nervous because she knew that she had to prove herself to all these male vice presidents. There were times when she had questions, but she was very strategic in terms of who she would ask questions of and when and where. And she mentioned when I had a conversation with her privately, she said there were times when she would come into the work when the company was closed because she didn't want people to see her looking up things, because she never wanted them to doubt her and her intelligence or her performance or her competence. So she would learn answers on her own, or she would strategically ask questions. When it comes to Covid, there might be some questions that employees don't want to put in writing, there might be some things that they don't want to ask on a virtual call, or they don't want to ask via email. And so you have to be strategic and allowing opportunities for those questions to be asked that are sensitive. Particularly from women who feel the need to not feel like they're less competent compared to working in a group of twelve vice presidents and you're the only female. Or this could be relevant for non dominant racial group members like mexican Americans, African Americans, Latino Americans, people from other countries. You know, sometimes they're shy about asking questions or uncomfortable, or feeling like all eyes are on me because I'm in the spotlight when I'm in the organization, because I'm the only one from my cultural group. So everything I do stands out. If I make a mistake, it's emphasized. So consequently, when I want to ask questions, sometimes it's nice to have the option to ask it privately or to not feel like every question I ask is documented. So companies need to be mindful, cognizant of this.

[34:14] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That's great information. Doctor Gates, we got a few more minutes left, so I just want to know what's next for you.

[34:20] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, I am intrigued by this research on traumatic workplace betrayal. And I want to explore how these experiences shape organizational socialization. I have just really enjoyed that research and I want to incorporate that into my research on organizational socialization.

[34:41] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Okay, one more question. Who has been your greatest inspiration?

[34:45] DR. DENISE GATES: Well, I have had some amazing educators from the Chicago public school system as well as the El car community schools who inspired me. And I feel that when I come to places like Las Vegas, Nevada, I feel that I'm representing my community because I feel that they help prepare me to be here by doing such a great job of educating me, inspiring me, motivating me, believing in me, pushing me. I had the opportunity to study at Purdue University because one of my educators enrolled me in a program that was designed to help teenagers be exposed to college and campus life. And so I spent some time studying pharmacy at Purdue University before going on and enrolling into an undergraduate program at another university and then ultimately getting my PhD. And then after that I got my postdoctorate in management and have been working as a strategic management professor and consultant and author and I've really been quite happy with my accomplishments.

[35:43] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That's awesome and amazing. Now, Doctor Gates, do you have any last remarks before we are done today?

[35:49] DR. DENISE GATES: I think that it's crucial for people to remember that organizational socialization, socialization is an ongoing process. It's not a process that's going away. And leaders who care about their companies should understand how people experience organizational socialization so they can help facilitate that process and work toward drawing the greatest value out of their employees.

[36:13] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: That is great. Doctor Denise Gates, I want to thank you for sharing your information on Doctor Denise Gates, I want to thank you for sharing this information on organizational socialization today.

[36:26] DR. DENISE GATES: You're welcome.

[36:28] MARCI TAYLOR-HAYEZ HAYEZ: Okay, is there.