Marci Turner and David Turner

[00:01] MARCI TURNER: Hi, my name is Marci Turner. I'm 77 years old. Today is January 25, 2023, and we're in El Paso, Texas. My interview partner is my husband, David Turner.

[00:17] DAVID TURNER: Hi, I'm David Turner. I'm also 77 years old. And again, it's January 25, 2023, and we're in El Paso, Texas. Marci and I met back in 2001. We actually met on an airplane, and we were both flying to Boston, going through Dallas. And our plane into Dallas was late. And as we got there, I overheard her saying that she was going to Boston. So I mentioned, I'm going to Boston, too. So we wound up running through the airport, and then when we got on the next plane, we were sitting next to each other. And then two years later, we got married. So, kind of a fun story.

[01:02] MARCI TURNER: That's a short version. Good.

[01:04] DAVID TURNER: That's the short version. We are both on the board of directors of the Frontier Land alliance, which is a nationally accredited land trust. And our mission is to save and protect open space in our community for us to enjoy now and in the future generations. And that's what we're going to be talking about today is one particular property that we were able to save. So, Marci do you want to start off and tell people a little bit about El Paso?

[01:35] MARCI TURNER: I'm sure most people have heard of El Paso, Texas, but many people probably don't know where it is. If you look at a map of Texas and look to the very western tip, we're below the state of New Mexico and above the country of Mexico. We live in far west Texas. Dallas is 635 miles from us and Houston is 750 miles east. Unique to El Paso is that we have a mountain range that goes right through the middle of the city. A lot of people, I found, think El Paso is flat. It's not the mountains. The highest elevation is 7200ft and it's absolutely beautiful. We live in the foothill of the mountains. Our house is at an elevation of about 4300ft. The city was originally built around the mountain, but has expanded to an area of 256 sq. Mi. With a population of about 800,000 people. We're the 23rd largest city in the country, the 6th largest city in Texas, and the second largest city in southwestern United States behind Phoenix, Arizona.

[02:56] DAVID TURNER: We're also located in the northern chihuahuan desert. We have an average annual rainfall of eight to nine inches of rain. So that's not a whole lot of rain. So because of this, there's no trees on our mountains like you see across a good part of the country. But we do have a lot of the local desert vegetation that's on the mountains, and it is very, very pretty to look at. Mountains like ours naturally create their own unique drainage systems. The little water we do get when it rains hard enough comes down the mountain, it carves these, what we call arroyos in the mountains. Other parts of the country call them washes or gullies, but basically it's just a trough that was dug into the mountain by the rain coming down. And we're going to be talking one specific arroyo just a little bit later. These arroyos actually drain water from the mountains all the way down to the Rio Grande. So they're an important part of our economy, our area, and they also have a habitat for wildlife as well as the beautiful plants.

[04:25] MARCI TURNER: The Rio Grande is the natural border between the United States and Mexico. Much of the year it's dry, but much of the year it's got water in it. It's used for irrigation for farmers in New Mexico and in Texas. So, as in other cities, development of new neighborhoods is reducing the amount of open space. Open space is what we consider natural, leaving the land in its natural condition. In El Paso, many people want to live on the mountain for the views. Because of this, many homes were built in the arroyos. In 2004, David and I founded a neighborhood association. We were one of the first approved by the city, and now there are over 90 neighborhood associations in El Paso. It's an informal group of neighbors who want to maintain the peaceful character of their neighborhood. Within the boundaries of our neighborhood association is an arroyo called Thunder Canyon. It's about 30 acres located several blocks to the north of where we live. It's surrounded by homes located on the rim of the arroyo. The neighbors who live there enjoy the open space, the wildlife and vegetation, and the peace and tranquility that exists in their own backyards.

[05:55] DAVID TURNER: Thunder Canyon is just a beautiful place, and it's right in the middle of our neighborhood, which is kind of unique now because most of them already had been developed. So it's one of the few remaining, and it happens to be right in our neighborhood. So it's really special to us. So we were kind of shocked when we heard that Thunder Canyon was about to be developed. We found out from one of our neighbors who lived on the rim of Thunder Canyon. He called us and said there were some surveyors down in the canyon, wanted to know if we knew what was going on. Of course, we had no idea. So we started looking into it, and we found that there was a development going into the area of approximately 30 homes going to be built down in the bottom of that arroyo. So we were kind of devastated. So we looked further and come to find out the developer was actually our neighbor. So we went and talked to them and had several meetings with them. And in desperation, we kind of said, well, what if we bought it? Would you be willing to sell that to us? And we negotiated that. And finally they. They agreed, and they gave us a price, and they agreed to hold off on starting any digging, of bringing the bulldozers in which they had already were making plans to do. So. Now, that was okay. Now we have a possibility of saving this. So then we had to execute, honey.

[07:43] MARCI TURNER: So now that they've said they'd sell it, we need to figure out how we're going to raise the money to do that. And what would be the procedure as far as the city, and how would we pay for this land? Through our work with our neighborhood association, we knew a city employee who knew of something called a PID, which is a public improvement district, which was used in other Texas cities for things like infrastructure, utilities. Although it had never been used for our purpose in Texas, he thought this PID might work in our situation. For us, the PID would work like this. The neighbors surrounding the arroyo would agree to purchase the arroyo. Included in the purchase agreement was the requirement that a conservation easement would be placed on the land so that it would be protected from any future development. This land would remain in its natural state in perpetuity. Under the terms of the agreement, the city would issue bonds in order to purchase the land. The neighbors agreed to basically tax themselves. They would agree to a line item on their annual property tax and would repay the city over a period of 15 years at a very low interest rate. I think it was 3% or something like that. Then with the issue of how much would each pay? The neighborhood surrounding Thunder Canyon is comprised of a wide variety of home values. It was really important that this plan be fair to everyone. Finally, we agreed to a system that was based on a percentage of the city's annual assessment of their property for a particular year. In doing this, the lower valued homes would be charged less than the more expensive homes. It was also promised to the neighborhood that this rate would never change. And after the 15 year period, the line item would be gone, as all the neighbors should have paid the total assessment. It did work. I mean, they did. Everyone paid on time. Some people paid. Just wrote a check for the full amount, and some of these payments were $12,000 and $15,000 on the high end and on the low end, $5,000. So there was a big difference in some of these home values.

[10:32] DAVID TURNER: Okay, so now we had a plan or an outline of a plan, but we really needed to get into the execution phase and make this plan work now. So the first thing we had to do was to show the city that we were really serious. We had to raise some money, so we were able to go around the neighborhood and some other local places, and we got pledges for $100,000 to go towards the purchase of this land. And then we also partnered with the El Paso Community foundation, and they would be the people who would. People, when they wrote the checks, they wrote them to the community foundation for this. There are 501 and could collect the money and then distribute it. When the plan was complete and we purchased the land, we did. Once we got this and the city realized that we were serious, we had people, we called people and told them, now is the time to send the money to the community, community foundation. So this was a long process to get through this. But in February of 2006, and this, we're already been working on this for a couple years now, the city finally approved the plan for the public improvement district. So that was just the approval. Now we have to go through the implementation of the. Of that and the forming of the district, which the city's lawyers did most of that work and guided us through. And I was really amazed at us to get to this point, because when we started this, we had no idea what we were doing. We were novices in saving land and dealing with bureaucracy and all of that. And now we've gotten to the point where we raise some money, we have a plan, and the approval to implement the plan is now. And now we're moving on to form the PID and make this a reality. So now it's really getting exciting. Then we did. It took almost another year for it actually come to fruition, and all the paperwork was signed. And at the end, part of the agreement was when we bought the land, that there had to be a land trust or a conservation easement put on it. And that's when we turned to Frontera. We weren't members of the board back then, but we did know some, some of the members, you know, through our associations with the neighborhood association. So we did know some of them. And so we contacted them and they made their. Made an agreement with the city that they would be the protectors of the land in perpetuity.

[13:52] MARCI TURNER: So what they do is once a year, at least once a year, they go to the property and they check to see, to be sure that none of the agreements have been broken. So, in other words, prior to that time, kids used to ride their bikes up there, motorbikes. And I, it was, you know, we put signs up, no, no traffic, no vehicles, no motorized vehicles. And of course, the neighbors that live on the rim, they kept an eagle eye out for anything that was going on.

[14:33] DAVID TURNER: And still do.

[14:34] MARCI TURNER: And they still do. And it's great because we'll get a call and say, well, somebody's dumped some trash, and so we go take care of it. But they know that no one's allowed on that property except people who are hiking. And so today, and this was in probably 2008 when it was totally open, totally protected, maybe earlier. But today, the vegetation that had been stopped down is thriving. Beautiful. There's a ton of wildlife. We have a mountain lion, deer, of course, fox. It's beautiful. Vegetation is flowering every year. It gets better because it's been allowed to grow. And Frontera conducts guided hikes up the river, teaching hikers about the beauty of the land and the need for open space in our community. In August 2006, El Paso experienced 100 year flood. Nine inches of rain fell within 24 hours. The water ran through homes with great force. Streets were torn up. Giant rocks came tumbling down from the mountain through residential and commercial areas of town. A video store was knocked down. And since we're in the desert, the rain can't be absorbed through the hard, dry land, and it continues to flow unhampered by anything in its path. The city looked like a war zone. We don't have the kind of dirt that David and I are used to. The rich, dark dirt that's in the northeast. This is dry. This is a lot of rock. So that water just came down, and it was just awful. We have photographs from many of the streets. We didn't drive. We couldn't drive down. And look, we walked, and it was just, as I said, looked like a war zone. Then one time while we were at city council meeting, they were considering the protection of Thunder Canyon. The subject naturally came up about homes built in arroyos. Of course, those homes suffered the most damage as the water followed its natural path. Then I was asked, okay, tell us what happened at Thunder Canyon. And I said, nothing. It's fine. The water was allowed to travel its course, and there was no damage in or around the canyon. Sometime after this, an ordinance was passed, the prohibited construction in Arroyos. Great.

[17:33] DAVID TURNER: That's really amazing when you think about it. Nine inches of rain in one day. That's our yearly total on average. So for. It's impossible for the city of El Paso to contain that much water, and so it just rushes down the mountain towards the river. Thunder Canyon worked the way it has for thousands of years. The water ran down Thunder canyon, so it really underscored the fact that all these years, they probably should not have been building houses in royals, and so now they're not going to do that. So Marcia and I asked ourselves the other day, was this worth it? And the answer to that is, absolutely. This is such a beautiful place in the middle of our neighborhood, a place where you can go, and there's an entrance that anybody can use to go hiking up into the canyon, at the bottom of the canyon, and you're walking up there, and unless you look up the steeps of the slopes, you don't see any. The houses are up above you. So if you're just walking up, your vision is just seeing the canyon. It's like you're out in the middle of nowhere, walking upon Arroyo and seeing all of the beautiful cacti and different plants, and particularly when they're in bloom, it's just such a nice, peaceful place to just go for half an hour or an hour or ten minutes, whatever, and just, you know, relax and enjoy. And having it that close to where you live is really, really special here in El Paso. So absolutely, it was worth it.

[19:31] MARCI TURNER: Well, it did take three years to complete, and it took a cooperation from the city of El Paso, the 92 homeowners around the canyon, the El Paso Community foundation and frontier Land alliance, and the hard work of our neighborhood association to make this a reality. Texas is a huge state with wide open spaces, but 94% of the land is privately owned. And Frontera is a land trust and the only accredited one in our region, which includes southern New Mexico and far west Texas. And we believe it's our responsibility to work with landowners, whether private or governmental, to protect the land in its natural state and in accordance with the wishes of the landowner in perpetuity. And the way a land trust works or a conservation. Conservation easement works is the person who wants to save their land actually comes to Frontera and says, I want to preserve my land. So the conservation easement is an agreement between the landowner and the land trust. And what happens is there's a list of things that they go over about what does the owner want to allow on this property. So it could be someone who's got a ranch, and they want to be sure their kids can build a house, you know, at a certain time, and it just goes on and on. And until the two come to an agreement, the land trust and the owner, there's no agreement, it doesn't happen. But as soon as they come to an agreement, then the conservation easement is a possibility. And what does it cost? What happens is there's a lot of costs involved and what happens is the landowner and the land trust share that cost. So it's a very nice agreement between two entities and it works out very well. In the last few years, we've placed conservation easements on about 1600 acres of open space within the city limits. We're continuing to work on the protection of Castner Range, which is 7800 acres on the east side of the mountain and home to our poppy fields. And we're seeking the designation as a national monument. In doing so, that will automatically protect those acres from any kind of development. What we also do is on all the land that we have managed to conserve or save, we've built trails, hiking trails, biking trails, walking trails, and we do have signage up. We do conduct hikes during the year. We have many events during the year, and it's open to the public. We announce them, they get emails. And it's our wish to educate the public on the necessity of open space. It's just good for us, for our heads, for our city. And we're going to the children, actually grade school, junior high, high school, and getting the kids involved so that as they grow up, they'll be aware of the importance of open space for our community.

[23:28] DAVID TURNER: And that's one of the reasons we wanted to talk about Thunder Canyon today was just show because we think it's a perfect example of how people can get together and make something like this happen. Like I said earlier, none of us really knew what we were doing. We just needed. We knew what we wanted to happen and we were passionate enough about it to just press forward. And things like this can happen anywhere in this country if people just see something that needs to be done and do it. It's small examples like this that make everything worthwhile. It gives people hope, it gives people the opportunity to make a difference in their lives. And we feel that we did that with Thunder Canyon and we in the frontierland alliance are doing that with other properties as well. These properties that we're preserving is not just, it's great for us to enjoy, to go hiking and see the beautiful scenery and the plants, and every once in a while you get lucky and see some wildlife and that's fabulous. And we can do that now in our people in the future can do the same thing, but it also protects other things, like water. The little bit of rain that we get that does soak in the land here goes down into aquifers that supply water for our drinking and all the other purposes. And if these lands aren't protected, if you cover them with cement, then the water has no chance of seeping down and getting into the aquifers and just runs down. All of it runs down to the river. So there's many, many reasons to save spaces like this for our health and well being and for the continuance of nature and how things, keeping things the way they're supposed to be. We have water is obviously a problem here in El Paso. So every bit that we can get to seep into the ground and into our aquifers that supply a good portion of the water that we have is very important. So there are many, many reasons to preserve land. And we are here as frontier land alliance to help and aid people who want to do that. So we're very proud to be part of frontera and helping in that effort.

[26:55] MARCI TURNER: Okay. Nice talking to you.

[26:59] DAVID TURNER: Thank you. Good job, sweetie.

[27:00] MARCI TURNER: You, too, honeydehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.