Margot Norris and Sandra Ridder

00:02 Good Morning America Norris, I'm 71 years old today's date is 11:23 2019. I'm located in Lansing Michigan and I'm here today with my best friend Sandra Ridder and this is Sandra Ridder. I'm 58. Today's date is still 1123 2019. I'm located in Lansing Michigan and I'm here with my best friend Margo.

00:30 When I think of Margo

00:32 And I try to think about what was most important to her in the 30 years. I've known her. I kept coming back to your grandchildren.

00:41 As you should and when I first met you you had just become a grandmother for the first time with Daniela and I thought it was really interesting that you raised two boys. And your first grandchild was a girl was that hard?

00:55 It was a treat when Danielle was born. She was 4 days old the first time she spent the night at Grandma's house. And after that she was pretty much there at least every other weekend in the summertime a lot. She lived in Grand Rapids, so we will go over and get her and she will come home with me and it was just a wonderful treat with these bouncy little blonde curls and big blue eyes and a beautiful girl to I mean to have that be your first grandchild that girl and it was definitely definitely a surprise and a treat after having boys and being involved in sports since they were little little now you're super boys sports see, you know, football baseball basketball team was there for today in Jerry and Pat was fun to have a little girl that I could put ribbons and curls and pink dresses on.

01:55 A girl but she was the boss of everything and enjoy your family with our lives revolved around it did for what we did on weekends all of us. We just took her along with us, whatever we did. We've got some very good memories and then when she was about 18 months old Courtney came along and they became the best friends ever Courtney is your cousin so my other son his daughter and they became just Inseparable and Courtney a daughter. Daniela could do nothing wrong everything that she did. It was just a delight to Courtney. She just has imagination was so big at brought that out in Courtney. I'm gone been so outgoing and silly if it weren't for Danielle. I always thought she was funny. She always had some little scenario going on in her mind and

02:55 The turtle story. Oh my goodness. They were like 6 and 5 years old something like that and Danielle ask Courtney who her boyfriend was. First of all, Daniela said that which one was it Leonardo?

03:13 I think she was married to one of the Ninja Turtles and I believe it was Leonardo and she was going to have the first child and Leonardo was going to have the next hundred. So then she has Courtney who's your boyfriend important went into a panic? She didn't know she was supposed to have a boyfriend. So she just rattled out Underdog Daniela wrinkled up her nose and looked at her and she said Underdog you could get any of the other Turtles and they were just silly girls all the time.

03:50 Some of my best memories with you and the kids with the kids and we recorded everything they did that was fun. I would leave a recorder in the playroom when they were in there playing and listen to them record them playing in the things they would do and that was I was amazing. That was wonderful.

04:14 More memories one-on-one with Courtney when she was little we spent you had Courtney so much once how old was she drinking downtown when they came back and moved in with you six weeks 6 weeks old and yanny and Tom moved in with you. Yes, and they move back after they moved in time and Courtney's mother. We're not together anymore and he came home with the baby and now her babies are there you were with me. Yes until he would get her in the morning or if I went to work. I would drop her back off cuz he did manage a restaurant. So that's kind of what I remember is him taking her to school yet. He would pick her up and take her to school or I would run her home and he would take her to school.

05:10 But they had them they had some interesting times to she was she was a silly one.

05:19 One time she want to take her bird to school and Tom didn't think that was a very good idea because it's quite noisy and long story short. The big was disruptive in the class didn't say anything or anything until class started and then class started in.

05:38 The birds started making noise the teacher said it out in the hall all the other teachers started complaining. They took it down to the principal's office. And finally the principal just called time to come and pick up the bird and my mother actually wrote a book about that a little child's book and it was very cute just called Courtney's bird and its she's just a really I mean she was killed it the whole thing with that book. That's very cool to have that and show that to the new great grandchildren about their mom. This book was written about their mom. We just read it together a few weeks ago and they were cracking up that was funny. He was cute.

06:21 So sweet, it was different for you with Raven and Rain though, right? Cuz their mom was involved yeso when there's a man involved Grandma's not as involved as match which was obviously wonderful. Yes for them. It was really different for those swimming as I look back and going with those two grandchildren Syrian Shannon's youngest two because they were together married as a family was at Harder or just didn't realize how it in different. I didn't how do I want to take get my hands on him as much as I would like to resend know she was she was Mega mom, you know, they would go somewhere I would watch the children and they would maybe supposed to be spending the night, but then they know I'm going to come and get them and I wanted to be with her kids, which was kind of injury from the 80s.

07:20 And I was for a few years a victim advocate for the police department and when I would get through with a call out, I would call and say can I come over and speak or use using my children? Remember what's good in the world? That was great. It was a really hard time for you. You saw a lot of horrible things I did so they will do horrible things to each other. It's awful.

07:48 And now you have

07:50 True that are in a different state. Yes, which is even harder compared to how involved we had Kourtney and Daniella and turn down these last two are in South Carolina. So how's it like Grandma and from a distance or Tammy and I were very close. He's 15 as of last weekend and we were very close before the UN they move he was six or seven with him and we went on dates on the weekends and we will go to the movies and the zoo and out to dinner. He was always a very expensive to eat and then Along Came Breslin and she's just a treat know she was born in South Carolina right now. She's got that southern she is a little southern belles he is and she's

08:51 She's so cute heart just my sweetheart. She's asked me if I would come to her birthday party this year. So I actually bought plane tickets to go down in March to go to a birthday party and I'm not telling her that I'm coming. They won't be here for Thanksgiving, but they'll be here for Christmas, which is wonderful. I think that plane ticket for her birthday if you know and times when

09:17 Finances are tight when you go and you buy that ticket to go see Breslin for her birthday was huge for me to see which I've always seen for 30 years your priorities with those grandkids, whether they're living with you like the older two or they've never even lived in the same state as you like Breslin that you are no different in the way you approach them and how you feel you have to be as a grandma. I want to say responsibility but not in a bad way not in a burdensome way. It's never a possibility like you just accepted that that is who you are and what you are doing now that I've always said that I found out that my true calling and the reason I was here was to be a grandma and I love that role and

10:11 Now I got seven great-grandchildren. What was it like when Courtney seeno Daniela had the first great-grandchild that was stupid different grandchildren and great-grandchildren. No. No, it's just like all grandkids grandkids. I don't a lot of times I don't say they're my great-grandkids or just my grandkids. I forget but you're great. Yeah, and when when Chris was born

10:40 Little blond-haired blue-eyed bundle of joy and just a little all her children look just like her and it. It was wonderful. He was sweet. And did you have as much time with him as you didn't really cuz they know that they moved around a lot. Okay, and as a family and they were in Grand Rapids Indian out of state for a while, so

11:11 I've got to be more involved on a regular basis. I'm just I'm sorry to say within the last couple of years since Daniela passed away. Yeah. We should probably touch on that a little bit that.

11:27 I think it's really unusual for a grandmother to outlive her granddaughter and I wouldn't wish that on anybody and I don't want to make you cry. That's okay. I'm always going to cry. I know I know but

11:42 I can't imagine.

11:44 I can't I don't know how you can even explain it, but you can't. Yeah, it's it's very unique, you know for like I said for a grandparent to outlive their grandchild is actor at the age. She passed you know, that she didn't die young as a baby or anything like that. So

12:05 I don't know why you can tell you about it. I know that kind of get it out of here very difficult time. It still is to me and I think it

12:16 It kind of is difficult for me sometimes because I've never really spoke her father and I have never really sat down and talked about her passing even though we were all in the hospital in for the few days that we were up there while she was on life support and getting things ready for her organ transplants and things like that. It just it's not something you're supposed to be going through as a family know and then how do you

12:47 Talk up. Yeah, like you and Jerry. I've never had a conversation about that. I don't think Siri had that conversation with anybody ever. I don't think he probably has I think he keeps allowed inside about it. And is that something you think it would make you feel better at some point if you and Jerry not if it didn't make him feel better. I don't want to I'm afraid to talk about it because I know how sensitive and how hard it is for him and how much he adored that girl. I know and it's it's difficult to bring that up to him.

13:20 I mean just in casual conversation when you and I were speaking last night and we talked about the girls. He seemed to put a little wall up around him at the restaurant. Did you see that? We were just sharing good memories about the Uncle John's trim and laughing and that was a dumb. I have a daughter Gracie who adored Courtney and Danielle as she's five or six years younger than diamond.

13:47 They was always so good with her. But yes when we were sharing those memories of that trip to Uncle John's and all of us. I did think I didn't know if he got quiet because it was upsetting to him or if he was actually kind of enjoying the memory, but you're his mom. So you're more sensitive to his moods. I think I'm very sincere. I'm not really sure how he took that last night, but but I'm still glad we talked about it. Yes still a great memory and it's good for us. Yes.

14:20 This is you know, Daniel the passing is never anything that is going to turn into a glass-half-full type of deal know some good thing since she's passed is our friendship got stronger and those grades me and I'll be having all four of them coming now a lot and me and Danielle is kids come to your neighborhood. They stay with Shannon and Cherry but Shannon and Jerry live one of us have them every other words for hell. Yeah, so and then I get the other three, so I got seven of them there and that's

14:56 Crazy, I think most of my neighborhood moves out for the weekend when they come out a lot of thinking about when you have all the great-grandkids kourtney's 3 Isaac and Carlos and Alana and then Danielle has four.

15:11 Running up and down the streets. I mean I sit at my house with my adult child and no little kids around and think how wonderful that you be and what great memories that's going to be for them when we were at our grandparents and our great grandma living two doors away from each other running around with our cousins. It is it's it's I was always close with my cousins and we live where I'm from the Upper Peninsula and move down here when I was quite young but every summer I would go back up to someone in my mother's family 11 children. There's and I ran the woods and lumber Mills in Lumber camps and Tahquamenon Falls and Lake Superior was our swimming hole and just a lot of that. So having the memories of running around with my cousins.

16:03 It's important to me that my grandchildren have that connection with her cousin to know kind of.

16:10 Right within the last

16:12 Spend so much.

16:14 Togetherness between the seven of them and I've seen you know, even relationship like if Isaac isn't there there's now Carlos and Chris and Xander not just matched up by age group that they're very comfortable and friendly all with each other.

16:35 They're cute and they're up and down the street actually might one of my neighbors. So I've known since 5th grade and she says she loves having the kids in the neighborhood and watch it. That's Jennifer. Who was she doing that long? I just thought you knew her from the neighborhood now while she lived next door at her mother's house and I lived for blacks back. So we went to the Maplewood together and Wildlife Ranch in Everett sell a lot of we've known each other a long time.

17:07 And it's wonderful having a nice little neighborhood. Now the kids cut their and everything. It's very special and then I'm going to Grandma's. I'm going to Grandma's. I'm going to run back and forth between the two houses. How do you guys decide who sleep and wear when it's bedtime?

17:28 Kind of whoever wants to you guys played in the boys and girls if so up a lot if they are then Chloe and Lily want to be with the baby and I know likes to be with Chris. She's got an infatuation big because younger and she's in love with her thirteen-year-old cousin. She just wants to be with him and crawling all over him and he still sweetie gets raped exactly what they look just like Courtney and Daniella he gets down to her level and talks to her and and the ground and just very nice but yes, they it depends like the kids were there a couple of cans of going and Xander was sick. So he wanted to stay on my couch and watch TV and have Grandma bringing my scream and stuff like that like you do when you want when you're ill you want to be to Grandma's house. So it came bedtime and the door opens and here comes his sister Lily.

18:28 Winter Jam is on and her blanket. She goes I'm sleeping on this couch. And so she's she is a personalities they do and they're smart and they're

18:47 It's just a treat and a pleasure to know you have had Courtney's got three kids Isaac and Carlos and Alana.

18:57 We weren't really in touch a lot when Courtney had her kids, so I didn't see what it was like for you with Isaac. Did you have him a lot when he was born? Yes.

19:10 That he's

19:12 You're so beautiful in their their father is Hispanic and they're just gorgeous children are the big brown eyes in the black hair shiny and they're they're just very sweet. Very sweet kids. And if Isaac could be anywhere in the world. It would be a Grandma's house the other day to did he make it made you come and take him from his mom's and bring them to your house and now his he had dropped off at a friend's house. But but that's where you wanted to be whenever there's so that's where they want to come to Grandma's and right now their mothers working evenings at the Ingham County youth home. I color a kitty kitty jail.

20:02 And so she should keep a light on hard worker. She is a half of a country and she's got her bachelor's now. Is she working on her master's she is she's taking classes now to work on your medical mom three kids full-time job. She's pretty cool.

20:18 She has since hard on her if you have to count as any mother knows it's worked and had children, you know, she would rather be with her children more. But right now that's she's doing what she's got to do to.

20:33 And Courtney probably more than any of your grandchildren cuz of how much she lived with you and was in town and everything as always knows she can.

20:43 Count on you to help with her kids. I'm at the same house as the day. She was born that's all of them or and so they know that she has a lot of her mail sent to my certain things because she knows it's a kid that is where she's going to be up cuz she can get it there. But but I can't imagine on the outside looking at this that she would have been able to even get her first degree. Let alone finish now working on her Masters without the help you were able to give her with her kids because she wanted to have her kids and being able to juggle all of that. I can't imagine that.

21:22 Trying to do all of that. So it was hard with two boys. I can imagine they say 3 is your hair to do that's fine. And I just want to put on she can do that in ways that we didn't have to because she has a u

21:39 To make that all possible. Thank you. Yeah, and those kids adore you need to use them. She is love why wouldn't I share my don't think you'd have children if it wasn't for Daniela? No, I decided to have a baby the first time I saw Gary holding Daniela and she was maybe three or four months old. I totally remember shit in the blonde curl white dress white Bonnet this man this, you know 38 year old man going

22:13 Being so natural with such a young baby that it was that clearly remember looking at that moment and going this is the man. I want to have children with he will be a good father. Even if we end up rate, you know separating at some point. We weren't even married then

22:31 Sault and may not have had children if it weren't for watching the way

22:38 He would just lay us with Daniela and I need to get excited when the kids are coming over your own.

22:45 Yep, and we always just expected the kids would be there to it was never there were no babysitters ever. We had Village. We didn't need a babysitter or drag him around after Gracie was one of my God the three of them to do it each other would dress up and play in the hot tub and run around out there and all that property and her we are pictures of them all in the same dresses. I don't know why I can't find any of mine because Grace has pictures were always with Courtney's dresses cuz we're sent her those fat my brother used to it by then those then he got married and his wife said those dresses cost more than what mine deal. You're not buying any more beautiful. They are gorgeous and I would borrow one of Courtney's get Grace's pictures taken in.

23:36 That one red when I think everyone wore that even some friends of mine started for that one. And now I have a picture of Courtney and her daughter Alana in the same dress there. She have all the dresses. So do I have no idea where the letter that went to has been so many years.

23:56 She was a silly child corny. She was healed all about was the silliest thing to remember her and her dressing up and

24:06 Little Mermaid and Cinderella, she was obsessed with Cinderella. They went to Disney World one time and she stopped Cinderella. She was ever everywhere. She went she just followed her around or about that being a newspaper headline, Michigan Kirkland arrested for stalking, Cinderella.

24:27 And she wore that Cinderella dress until it fell apart. Remember her little Cinderella Barbie that thing needed to be thrown out way before the tattered for boy. She wouldn't let that go. I can't remember which one of the two older Courtney and Daniella that was the kitties. I mean one of them cuz they were all at least but they have we have invisible stuff with us all the time. Yes, but the kitties room visible. I remember where the boys took the boys to come to the mall one time as they did it to em, both girls to the mall and they lost your kitten.

25:14 And they had to go through the mall looking for the kittens just so the kids would not be screaming and how it working. It was just an appeal a started helping them not really exist. Courtney would try and the real kittens at home. She would put them in her backpack to take him to school. There was many a time. I've found a kitten in the backpack before she got out the car. So that was always interesting remember pulling one of them in a wagon. So it must have been coming back from cascarelli's was that what was that used to be on the corner of yes, and I can't remember which girl it was but we had to turn around and go back and it was Clinton with that Courtney because the kittens had fallen out of the wagon and we knew better than to try to convince her it was okay cuz they didn't exist. We went back we walked back till she found those kittens.

26:12 And they dress up in my high heels when I used to wear high-heeled and it would just take forever for Courtney to decide on the pair that she was going to wear while they were dressing up Danielle get so exasperated with her and she go Courtney. You just got it any Meenie Miney more so she would finally pick out the shoes. I might ask you a little bit about Raven and rain. I know I should like him brought Swindell Rammstein we could sit here and talk about the two older girls all day because so much of our early friendship and so many of our years together included Your to Grand older granddaughters and then my daughter Grace Raven that little dark I mean she came out to me a choice look like Tom which I know is that Shannon is going to want to but now she looks so much like Shannon.

27:08 She looks a lot like I used to think she look like her dad. Yeah, Jerry Jerry. Is there a lot of his expression on her face Uncle Tom's expression Center faced Escala. Was that chick? Yeah. She's my my ex-husband side of the family has some Native American blood in them. So that definitely comes out in Jerry's coloring and his his daughter when the Raven being her older sister so blonde and so fair and then the black haired Beauty with all the girls in the eyes and all of that but you stood like a mirror a black and white image correct the two of them and they relate the story. I love the story about

28:08 You took her into a police station or something. You have to do some catering for the police department and I went out and went down to pick up a up a check and we were all going somewhere. Her mom was in the van and her little brother and she sucked his thumb forever and she would walk around with that little Thumb in her mouth and she wanted to go in with me. So I'm her mom was parked in a

28:35 I'm not a proper place to park so she pulled around to the other side of the street and we came out and her little arms up in the air holding my hand and thumbs in her mouth and she walks out. She looks around she goes, where's my freaking Mommy? That is Raven. Yes, and she had a little conversation with the sun one day which we won't go into it because that was

29:06 She was using the naughty work, but we were like

29:12 Make a stop saying that she's a treat and she's going out here to Michigan State and she's just a gorgeous are not seeing as much of her. She's so busy with school and in the end. I mean she takes on a lot credit wise and work wise. Yeah who won the college thing? Right? But she is enjoying it TS. I love that picture of her in the salad bowl. She weighs how little I mean to wheelie we were still just a couple of weeks old feelings 4 weeks old maybe a very young that was surprising that Shannon was letting us move her all-around imposer. We took her in the house and do it and then Jerry came in what are you doing to my kids and then he got all into it. It was such a cute picture or cute rain then we got a boy my rain man. He is so beautiful and so

30:11 He's my heart. He was everybody's ring bearer right is the time. He was 5 years old eat that everybody wanted them and their weddings in their pictures and I think it was the boys have a younger sister who is married and has a daughter Marnie. I think it was her wedding that he was he was in like five West and he threw himself back on the bed. And you said I don't want to wear a tux. I don't want to be in a wedding. I just want to eat cake or Mantra now. I just want to eat cake and he said everything there, but he said no cuz I told you I wasn't going to do it. I'm not going to it. We were drinking a lot of champagne back then too, and we still one time Weed Head.

31:10 Otagiri Enchanted sweet had dinner and we had to Champaign and there was a reasonably nice bottle that was left over it when I went out there Shannon goes had set it on the table and she said don't forget to take this home and when she set it on the table rain was probably two or three maybe anywhere run into the kitchen and they come back with his sippy cup waving it in the air campaign campaign. No, dude, Miss still likes his pamper a raven is real big sister to rain. It looks like to me cuz I don't use it very protected him and very sweet to see that brother sister with them it is they

31:57 I guess I was surprised. I mean I wasn't really but they're very protective of each other. I know he's gotten a couple of things at school over his sister protecting his sister somebody saying something too pretty and imagine what that must be like for a younger brother here and boys talk about your sister. Yeah, but then her girlfriends what kind of money grow up so they're interesting has been a wonderful wonderful being a grandmother like I

32:32 That's my calling and you took yours are so different to because like Raven and Rain brother and sister same parents raised together to see that brother sister relationship and Courtney so independent and trying so hard to be such a good mom because

32:52 She had you as an example, even though you were her grandmother and Kim and I've said and I know I've told you this a million times for our friendship that my example of a good mother and a good grandmother is you I love my mom. I love my family, but vividly Watching You the boys were older, you know, what's so watching you parent young adults, but then watching you grandmother your grandkids also taught me how to be a good mother and I can't wait to take that grandmother and my grandkids and share them with you and have you how much it means so much I can't

33:33 I don't know where you get so much love over and over again.

33:42 Just ran out of seeing where it all I it doesn't come. Yeah, just like flows out of you in those grandkids are around and I see not just how good you are for them.

33:53 But how happy it makes you it makes me very had him and selfishly. I want to be that happy vicariously and I'm very proud of you enjoying being a mother to a young adult to I'm waiting my turn now for those grandkids Dino and listen to Gracie does not think I'm waiting patiently, but I am waiting patiently.

34:24 Yes, it's a

34:26 Then a wonderful wonderful experience for me and

34:30 I if I don't see him for a while, I mean even a week like I haven't seen the I know kids for week and when they called yesterday where they were sure hinting for that. Are we coming over this weekend or what? Are you doing this weekend Grandma going to be home? And which is unusual? Yes. Usually they would be there. Yeah, they are there.

34:59 And they probably will be after I go to my dinner with Mom tonight. So she's I'm going to dinner for my birthday with my mom tonight. She's a P90 and sit in January. So we're having great great grandchildren that I can wow. Guess how I mean for them to have they'll have memories or your greats are old enough to remember when they're adults. They'll remember their great-great-grandmother. I don't have those kind of memories to you.

35:31 No, not with my great-grandparents and my my maternal grandmother passed away in a car accident holding me when I was like a year old. So I do you have strong memories of one of your grandmother's no, no, no this how to make a card in my father's mom. Yes, but she wasn't the grandmotherly type.

35:59 So I totally understand that. So this is just a natural. It's not an example that you had set for you. It's just you're going with the way you feel a grandmother should be you know, the feeling you get when you have your child and they hand her to the the first time.

36:21 It doesn't stop whether it's your child whether you gave birth to her or him is it doesn't stop it's the love that you have for something that's part of you. Even the ones in South Carolina. I mean that from a distance. I can't tell any difference in the way you grandparents Tommy and Breslin then

36:48 Raven Reign and Isaac and Carlos. I mean any of the greats it's just from a fire and will I sure miss those hugs and kisses hello, but I facetimed you yesterday. There was present did Tommy get on FaceTime or know he was I don't know where he was he do they were in the car so he wasn't with them.

37:09 And you lit right up. I mean when you realized who was on the other end of that phone and you lit right up she

37:19 She misses it when she comes out they came up this summer and

37:24 She wants to come right to my house before they check into a hotel or do whatever they going to do about a half hour out. She starts talking. Are we at Grandma's yet? Are we going to Grandma's you taking me to Grandma's? I'm spending the night at Grandma's tonight. Right? So it's in between Christmas at I mean Thanksgiving and Christmas Yule at one point in time. See all of your grandkids and all of your great-grandkids, correct course, but I'm thinking about her a lot. Yes, lots of Christmas Memories with that one with all of them, but always good memories of Danielle out during the holidays and all of us together.

38:04 And even though I may be 71, they keep me 50 very active. It's I think having the grandchildren of my life has been good for my help itself is that keeps me young and happy and healthy and running.

38:26 What you want tell him you love him and will sign off here. Alright list them Daniela Courtney Raven Reign Tommy Breslin Christopher Alexander.

38:41 Lily Liliana, Chloe and Alana my babies and they're always talk about all our pictures around here. I was so cute when I was little and said, yes you were.

39:01 Mi be done

39:03 Thank you. Thank you.