Marina Krickler and Craig Pellet

[00:00] CRAIG PELLET: My name is craig pellet. I'm 35 years old. Today is Tuesday, January 19, 2021. We are in Ashland, Massachusetts. I'm having a conversation with Marina Krickler, who is my wife of nine, 10 years.

[00:18] MARINA KRICKLER: Almost 10.

[00:18] CRAIG PELLET: Almost 10 years.

[00:19] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[00:20] CRAIG PELLET: Okay.

[00:21] MARINA KRICKLER: My name is Marina Krickler. I am also 35. Today's date is, in fact, Tuesday, January 19, 2021. We are indeed in Ashland, Massachusetts, and I am having a conversation with my husband, Craig pellet, of almost 10 years.

[00:37] CRAIG PELLET: So what was your memory from January 6th? A momentous day, definitely.

[00:45] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. It was a big day for us and a big day for the country. Yeah. Let's see. I guess. Well, if you go back to about midnight on January 6, we were still at home laboring, and Karen was. And you were trying to get some rest, which is good. And, yeah, I guess things started to get really intense. I definitely remember the moment at which it was like, okay, we're going to the hospital. I can't. I'm not waiting anymore.

[01:15] CRAIG PELLET: Can't do this anymore here.

[01:16] MARINA KRICKLER: Yes, exactly. Yeah. At least not if we want to have the baby in a hospital. And so, yeah, I remember, you know, going into. Wake you up and then kind of like working through the next contractions until you were ready to go. And I definitely remember the car ride. Yeah, that was special. And then, yeah, the next. Everything that follows is, you know, a little bit hazy. I mean, like they say. I mean, I think, you know, when you're in the throes of, you know, active labor, you're sort of focused on what's going on in the inside and you're not really watching the clock. And, you know, I remember getting, you know, going through ER and then getting up to the room and. Yeah. And then all the subsequent. The work that needed to be done. And then, yeah, I remember one screaming, squalling baby being placed on my chest. So that was just unbelievable and amazing.

[02:15] CRAIG PELLET: At 5:00am Yeah.

[02:17] MARINA KRICKLER: 5. 5:03, right. Yeah. Which, of course, I wasn't looking at the clock. Somebody had to tell me that afterward.

[02:22] CRAIG PELLET: I wasn't looking at the clock either. They had to write it down. And I saw it a few hours later. Oh, that's what time it was.

[02:27] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then I, you know, like, we got through the post stuff. Oh, hi there. And I remember getting into the room and the weird thing was the fact that the news was on like you expect in a hospital room that, like, why would the TV be on? It's a postpartum recovery room. But I do remember Looking up and noticing the Georgia election results and being really surprised more than anything and commenting on it to the nurse.

[02:57] CRAIG PELLET: But, you know, we had a short conversation.

[02:59] MARINA KRICKLER: It's a short conversation with the nurse about that, and then sort of, you know, just like checking out a little bit and then like that, you know, and getting some rest. And then I remember the notifications starting to roll in about what was happening at the Capitol. And I think, you know, we were both so tired and everything was so, I mean, also, like, super euphoric from having given birth and gotten through that and getting used to her. I didn't sort of like, as you say, I didn't really register what was happening until the day after. And then it started to hit me like, oh, my goodness, this baby was born after, you know, in the midst of 100 year pandemic, after a 200 year insurrection. Like, you know, it's really kind of momentous and maybe slightly troubling day to be born. And that's when we started thinking about, like, wow, we're gonna need to contextualize this for her, because, you know, it's not every, like, I mean, I. You know, Nothing happened on October 25, 1985, at least not that is worth having a big conversation over. So, you know, I'm glad that we're able to sit down and. And talk about this because, yeah, it feels like. It just feels like there's a lot to unpack. A lot of things happened that day. So.

[04:11] CRAIG PELLET: Yeah. Both for us and for the country.

[04:14] MARINA KRICKLER: Seriously. So, yeah, let me turn the table then for you. So what are your memories of that day.

[04:23] CRAIG PELLET: Once we go? And I remember going into the postpartum room and seeing the election results and again, being pretty surprised about it. And then I think it's kind of the rest of the day is kind of a little bit hazy. I remember, you know, I was just starting to get really tired. And we had nurses coming in.

[04:42] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[04:42] CRAIG PELLET: Constantly. You know, we had a pediatrician come in and, you know, the lactation consultants were always coming in.

[04:48] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, yeah.

[04:50] CRAIG PELLET: So there was just like this constant flow of people in and out of the room, and there wasn't a whole lot of time to look at much else.

[04:57] MARINA KRICKLER: Right.

[04:58] CRAIG PELLET: So when, you know, you get the notification, the news notifications popping up on our phone, it was like, okay, so that's like, something's happening. But I. You know, we didn't even have the time to process what it was or what it meant at the time.

[05:11] MARINA KRICKLER: Right.

[05:12] CRAIG PELLET: And, you know, the free time that we had was just like, let's try.

[05:16] MARINA KRICKLER: And sleep and enjoy the fact that there's this beautiful new baby in front of us.

[05:20] CRAIG PELLET: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I don't know that it even really hit me right away.

[05:27] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[05:28] CRAIG PELLET: Maybe later in the day, but definitely it wasn't until like the next morning.

[05:32] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Right. And people. And also like to get some sort of clear eyed analysis of what actually happened, you know, unless you turned on the TV and watched it in real time, which I'm very glad we did not.

[05:42] CRAIG PELLET: I'm glad we didn't do that. That would have.

[05:43] MARINA KRICKLER: Oh, no, that would have been difficult to watch.

[05:46] CRAIG PELLET: I think seriously taking away too much attention. We would have to turn that right off.

[05:50] MARINA KRICKLER: Yes, yes. Yeah.

[05:55] CRAIG PELLET: But yeah. Yeah. And it was not until I saw pictures and we started listening to the radio.

[06:00] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[06:00] CRAIG PELLET: That it was really became clear that this was kind of a momentous occasion. So, like, what were your. What were you feeling once it started to sink in that, you know, we had this beautiful new baby and this horrible event for the country at the same time? You know, what did that feel like for you?

[06:21] MARINA KRICKLER: Oh, my gosh. Well, talk about a mixed bag. I mean, you know, the incredible euphoria you get after, you know, having given birth and you know, just like, you know, 2020 was a terrible year for all of us, like the entire world. But you know, also personally. Right. Like after losing my dad and everything. And it was like, well, finally here's this like new little person that we've waited so long to meet. And so that was just absolutely like unqualified joy. And then, you know, like I said on the 6th, I really don't think I was processing outside events very much. Kind of like, oh, election, that's nice. Oh, insurrection, that's bad. But then I remember being just super angry, actually, really, you know, just really upset that I don't know that it got to this point that these folks had thought that they were acting on some kind of just cause and it was all predicated on a lie for one and for two, that like, lives could be lost over this. I mean, it's one thing to, you know, spout conspiracy theories and, you know, try to agree on your. I mean. Well, I was going to say try to agree on your own set of facts. I mean, that's not good. And we can unpack that later. You know, facts should be knowable and quantifiable. But I don't know, I mean, it was. Talk about the last straw and just how utterly unacceptable, like, this is not the way to behave in a Democracy, like, you know, you can have your free speech, you can have your guns. That's all fine, but what you can't do is have an armed insurrection in, you know, in Washington, D.C. so, yeah, I just remember being really angry that how could, like, grown adults behave this way? How appalling and how sad that, you know, after, like, so many years of tumult and difficulty and threats of violence, like, I guess the other emotion was just not being surprised.

[08:16] CRAIG PELLET: Yeah. I was going to say, like, I think I was, like, angry, but also not that surprised.

[08:22] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Like, you know, chickens coming home to roost.

[08:24] CRAIG PELLET: Right. Like, this has been sort of the writing on the wall for a long time.

[08:29] MARINA KRICKLER: Well, and it's funny because, you know, it's like, a lot of people, I feel like there was this reaction of, like, oh, well, you know, Trump is not serious. He's just kidding. This is not that much of a threat. Like, just calm down. He doesn't really mean it. But then people actually took it seriously and actually committed violence.

[08:49] CRAIG PELLET: So that's the only thing that changed is people acted on his word.

[08:53] MARINA KRICKLER: Right. And then all of a sudden, we were in hot water, you know, and then it's like, you contrast that with the fact that, you know, like, here's this beautiful new person who has no concept of all the difficulties and, like, and pain and strife that this country has been going through, and it's like, wow, this is not what I want for this child. Like, we have to find a way to do better. So. Yeah. What. What about you?

[09:20] CRAIG PELLET: Yeah, I mean, it made me afraid.

[09:22] MARINA KRICKLER: Sure.

[09:23] CRAIG PELLET: You know, I mean, it seems like. And certainly with the rhetoric from even since January 6th with, you know, talk of, like, civil war and stuff like that, I mean, it's. That's not what we want. And I think that's not. Not the world that we want Arden to grow up in.

[09:42] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[09:43] CRAIG PELLET: Like, we want her to have to live through that, and we don't want to live through it, but we also don't want to be raising a child through a civil war and having that kind of strife in the country.

[09:55] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Yeah. Truly. Yeah. And I don't know, it's also, I think the events of the past few years have. I mean, well, for me, I also became a citizen. Right. So, like, I am developing a greater understanding of what it means to be engaged all the time in the act of, like, making democracy better. And I think having a child really reinforces that notion of, like, okay, you know, the stakes are now higher because, you know, we have to. What's the word I'm looking for, I guess be sort of custodians of, you know, of this democratic experiment for her until she's old enough to take it over. So it's like, really, like, feel like I have more responsibility on me now to understand the thing better and, like, try and make it better for her.

[10:43] CRAIG PELLET: We talk about rights and responsibilities, and it's a responsibility to uphold the democracy.

[10:48] MARINA KRICKLER: That we have so that there is one by the time she can vote. Right.

[10:52] CRAIG PELLET: For our. The next generation to inherit.

[10:55] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, Truly. Yeah. That's good. Oh, hi. Yes, we're talking about you.

[11:00] CRAIG PELLET: And she's starting to wake up.

[11:01] MARINA KRICKLER: Yes, she is. Yeah. Well, we'll see. She may have some contributions to make here.

[11:04] CRAIG PELLET: She might.

[11:05] MARINA KRICKLER: Hi. Oh, you're. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna pick you up. So here, I'm gonna ask you the next question. What do you want Arden to learn from the events of her birthday?

[11:16] CRAIG PELLET: So when I think about what happened, I mean, it seems to me like it's a culmination of the past few years.

[11:27] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, well, we didn't get here overnight, that's for sure.

[11:30] CRAIG PELLET: Exactly. We didn't get here overnight. And I think about the. Not just the past year of 2020, where we had a pandemic and racial justice protests, but also issues like immigration coming up routinely. And I think every single one of these issues comes down to the need for everyone to care about members of their community. For immigration. I mean, it's important to care about someone else's reality. You know, I guess there's maybe two things. It's not just about caring about someone else's reality and caring about someone else, but also caring about what reality is.

[12:15] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[12:15] CRAIG PELLET: Being sure that you know what you are believing and what you are, you know, saying and putting out there is true.

[12:23] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[12:25] CRAIG PELLET: With the pandemic, I mean, it's. You know, we wear a mask not to protect ourselves, but to protect other people in our community. And that's why you put a mask on, you know, so what I want for her is I want her to learn that she is a citizen of the United States who has a responsibility to care for and do good things for other citizens and other residents of the country, and also to be a good global citizen, you know, caring about everyone else, caring about the immigrants. I mean, she is, you know, coming from.

[13:12] MARINA KRICKLER: She's a first generation immigrant, I guess, because I am a great.

[13:16] CRAIG PELLET: From Canada. And your dad immigrated to Canada from Italy during World War II.

[13:22] MARINA KRICKLER: Right. So she's double.

[13:23] CRAIG PELLET: So there's. Yeah. There's a line of immigration, including immigration during difficult times into a country that welcomed them with open arms. And I think that it's important to recognize that. And it's important to recognize that someone cared about her grandfather and her grandfather's family enough to give her, to get, to give them a place to live.

[13:48] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. And a new start.

[13:50] CRAIG PELLET: And it's important for her to think about someone else's, Someone else's reality and to care about it and to treat them with respect.

[13:59] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[14:00] CRAIG PELLET: And I think it's also important for her to learn to be a good steward of truth.

[14:05] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, yeah.

[14:07] CRAIG PELLET: It's important for her to learn, you know, how to make sure that she has an informed opinion.

[14:13] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[14:15] CRAIG PELLET: To make sure that what she's saying to the world, whether it's on Facebook, if that exists still when she's 18 or something.

[14:23] MARINA KRICKLER: No comment.

[14:25] CRAIG PELLET: It is actually true. And that what, you know, she's not buying into lies and.

[14:30] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[14:33] CRAIG PELLET: And propaganda.

[14:34] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough.

[14:37] CRAIG PELLET: What about you? What do you want her to learn?

[14:40] MARINA KRICKLER: Oh, my gosh. I guess a big thing. Well, this is a hope. I sincerely hope that at some point we are going to be able to look back on the events of January 6, 2021, and say this was the turning point for the better. However, of course, I have no way of knowing if that will become true, but that's certainly what I want to see. And I hope that. I don't know, I hope that this moment was a galvanizing moment for a lot of people in this country to be like, okay, it's time to take this seriously now and change the course that we've been on. Because the course that we've been on has not been a good one. And we can't keep going down this road because the road that we're on leads to autocracy and destruction and nothing but bad things. So I mean, I hope that when she looks in the history books, it's like, yes, and on January 6th, we had this horrible event which led to.

[15:37] CRAIG PELLET: And everything turned around.

[15:39] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Right. I mean, that's really maybe rose colored glasses of me, but that's what I hope.

[15:44] CRAIG PELLET: Well, that's what I hope too, of course.

[15:47] MARINA KRICKLER: You know, and I guess I think.

[15:48] CRAIG PELLET: It certainly is a turning point. I mean, I think no matter what, it will always be seen as a.

[15:54] MARINA KRICKLER: Turning point or a milestone or something. Something. Well, yes. Yeah. You don't have a 200 year revolt, armed revolt every day. So. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think I would second a lot of what you said. And then we can sort of segue even into another question, too, which is like, you know, how have the events of the last few years shaped our understanding of the values that Arden needs to be a good citizen? Like, what does that actually mean? And, yeah, I. You know, I guess I'm a little bit biased as a musician and an educator, but the big thing for me, sort of like what you said is, like, how do we teach? How do we foster empathy, right? So, like, this sort of caring about what other people are going through, and, like, how do we find ways to connect with people whose values might be really different from our own? Like, where's the common ground? You know, it's so easy to say, well, oh, those people over there on the pick, your part of the political spectrum, like, oh, we can never get along. We can never, you know, let's demonize them. But that's not the way. I mean, we can't live like that. We can't move forward as a country like that. And that's also just not how you treat, like, other human beings. Like, you know, everybody remembers being a little kid in a classroom and, like, maybe having somebody that you couldn't get along with, you had to find a way to still, like, you know, like, work on projects together or share your blocks at the block table. I mean, like, you know, we have to find. We have to find a way to do that. And that's. Those are the values that I want her to have. You know, I want her to be empathetic. I want her to learn that the way that we resolve conflicts is by talking it out. We don't pick up our sticks or our guns or whatever and, you know, enact violence on people. We use our words and we. Not that she's quite there yet, but, you know, and we find a way to move forward. So there's that. I'm gonna think what else I really wanted to understand. I don't know. I mean, it's. This whole thing is like a. It's a cautionary tale, right? I mean, and I think the funny thing about having a kid is that there's all sorts of morality tales built into childhood, right? Like, you got your Aesop's fable and, like, all these different stories that teach us, hypothetically, teach us, you know, morals and how to become better people. And this whole episode with Trump is like, absolutely, you know, the emperor not wearing any clothes and everybody else around him, you know, pretending like everything's all fine and, like, the lies he's telling are Truth, when in fact they are the farthest thing from it. And you know, I'm certainly not going to lay all the blame at his feet either because he had a lot of enablers, a lot of people who thought it was advantageous to prop up these falsehoods until they realized that, okay, well now people are getting killed. I guess we better, you know, walk away from it. So, you know, I hope that like in an age appropriate way as she starts to look at these events, she can understand that, okay, well, when we lie, bad things happen and it becomes really difficult to get yourself out of the lie. You know, sort of like this sort of behavior has concrete consequences and when she's older she'll be able to like have a more a fuller understanding of the political implications. And lies have consequences. Right. And you know that lying like this, there is a thing called truth that we should be able to figure out what that is and agree on it. And if it's not, if you're not telling the truth, it's not worth saying, just don't do it like, and don't pretend that it's true when it's not true because all it will do is get you in trouble and that's going to hurt the people around you. And that is an oversimplification. But you know, at least in terms of like what a child can understand. Yeah, I think that's an important one. So. Yeah, and I guess, you know, the other thing that we, that we've talked about is having a good understanding as she grows up of, you know, everybody likes to talk about, well, my rights, right, my first Amendment rights, my second Amendment rights. And you know, I am developing as a new citizen a better understanding of what all those things are too. But what I want to see more of and what I want her to learn is like, okay, well of course she has rights as a US citizen and as a global citizen. Well, what are her responsibilities too? Right. And for me, it's my sense of responsibility that keeps me wanting to vote even in the little elections or stay engaged with like what's going on with the town. And it's not necessarily that every decision is going to affect me directly. I mean, of course it's not, you know, we as like middle class people are relatively insulated from a lot of the worst of the stuff that happened over the past few years, frankly. But like, you know, you get out there and you vote and you try and make a difference for the people who are suffering the most from it. And so, you know, that sense of shared responsibility, of, okay, what, you know, how can she make the world a better place? How can she stay engaged? And so she's got these rights. Great, that's great. So now get out there and be, you know, do the things that you need to do to maintain this good society that we live in.

[21:35] CRAIG PELLET: Be responsible for maintaining your rights.

[21:39] MARINA KRICKLER: Right. And like, you know, responsible for your own actions and responsible to the other people around you. And I don't know, I would like to think that if you have a sense of shared responsibility to each other, that it's easier to put on that mask, that it's easier to. I don't know, I do not want to like, harm the people that you disagree with because you're like, okay, well, we all live in this country together. We have to find a way. You can't just walk away. It's like family, you know, like, these are the folks we live in this country with. We have to find a way forward. It's not easy to just say, well, let's just separate or let's just have a civil war. Like, what? That's not a thing. So, yeah, it's that responsibility. Like, no, this relationship is worth it. This is the country we live in. Let's make it better. We can't just walk away. So, yeah, hopefully. Hopefully she learns that too.

[22:32] CRAIG PELLET: Yeah. I mean, she's gonna grow up in probably better circumstances than lots of other children and even lots of other children in the United States. Right. You know, we're a comfortably middle class family.

[22:49] MARINA KRICKLER: Absolutely.

[22:50] CRAIG PELLET: And you know, we're not food insecure like a lot of people are right now. You know, she's not a racial minority or minority. So, you know, there are advantages that she's going to have.

[23:04] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[23:05] CRAIG PELLET: It's important to learn that she is in a position of privilege and not to sort of abuse that.

[23:16] MARINA KRICKLER: Totally.

[23:17] CRAIG PELLET: I mean, abuse. It isn't the right word, but to recognize it and recognize that there are people who are worse off than she is.

[23:23] MARINA KRICKLER: Right.

[23:24] CRAIG PELLET: And that it's important to be empathetic to them and to care about them.

[23:28] MARINA KRICKLER: Right. Yeah.

[23:34] CRAIG PELLET: And I mean, you just have to care. You have to give a damn about other people's reality. You know, we've learned a lot over the past few years, just about, you know, African Americans in the United States. I mean, I grew up in the public schools learning about how the Civil War was fought over states rights.

[23:56] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. Which is like practically euphemism.

[24:00] CRAIG PELLET: It almost is at this point.

[24:01] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[24:02] CRAIG PELLET: I mean, and I don't know that we ever really believed it. But I mean, that is what was taught, you know, it wasn't taught from the perspective of slavery.

[24:11] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, yeah.

[24:12] CRAIG PELLET: And which is, I mean, that kind of thing just can't happen. And I think we need to understand what, you know, what the reality of African American people are today. What the reality of an immigrant is today.

[24:28] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[24:29] CRAIG PELLET: And how can we. And how can she make that better?

[24:34] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, well, you know what? I think it comes down to having a really clear eyed. Pluralistic is the right word to use, but like a really broad and deep understanding of history. Because if you really understand like the truth of, you know, like a lot of the past of this country, you can't possibly interpret like the events of the President in any other way. I mean, you know, you start to see the. Through lines of like, okay, well, great. The fact that this white, predominantly white, predominantly male mob was allowed to just go in and wreak havoc is an extension of oppression on, you know, people of color. Because there is no way in holy hell that the Black Lives Matter protests would have been able to even get close to those doors. Like, let's be real, you know, And I think if you have that broad understanding of history, you start to connect the dots. And I mean, I realize that also maybe is the sort of like the argument for a lot of these conspiracy theorists is like this idea of like connecting the dots and seeing things where they, where they're not, but those things are based on false things. Right. And what I'm saying, you know, is like, if you are a good student of history and you're listening to the right perspectives and not just, you know, the whitewashed version of some of these things that we were taught as children, it's like, okay, this is what's happening in front of us. We need to see it for what it is and then we need to act on it. So as you say, like, for her, what does that mean, you know, for, you know, someone who is in a pretty comfortable privileged position, you know, what is that going to mean for her? How can she, what can she do to make the world a better place? You know, to make American democracy just a little bit better? You know, not that I'm expecting her to necessarily go into politics. That's not like either of us did either. But, you know, it's just like that's the work, you know, and it's not just when you're mad about a particular issue. And it's not just every four years when there's a presidential election. It's like you know, that little daily work, like pick a cause, pick something that matters to you. You know, volunteer, invest in it a little bit, like, what can we do? And I don't think you're too young to really, you know, ever learn about that sort of stuff. And it starts with small things, and then, you know, maybe eventually she'll have her list of things that she cares most about and wants to be engaged on, and I will support that, you know, whatever those things are. So. Okay. Yeah, so let's. Let's talk about this last one here, which is what hopes and dreams do you have for the world she grows up in?

[27:23] CRAIG PELLET: I hope that we can protect our democracy.

[27:29] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah, basic but. Yeah, but true.

[27:32] CRAIG PELLET: I mean, I hope that it becomes the flourishing democracy that we had in the early 20th century.

[27:42] MARINA KRICKLER: What do you mean by that?

[27:45] CRAIG PELLET: I think it seems to me that it was healthier. I feel like there was more. There was less animosity between the two political parties, and I feel like there was a lot more overlap in the early part of the century.

[28:02] MARINA KRICKLER: You mean a lot more common ground.

[28:04] CRAIG PELLET: A lot more common ground. I think you had a lot more, you know, overlap. You had a lot more likelihood of a bipartisan agreement on something.

[28:13] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. And less polarization.

[28:14] CRAIG PELLET: Exactly.

[28:15] MARINA KRICKLER: I see. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense.

[28:18] CRAIG PELLET: And I hope that we can get back to, as a community of U.S. citizens and U.S. residents seeking a collective truth and get back to trying to agree on what's an objective truth and what's fact and that we can find common ground for there. I feel like it's really, really difficult to make any kind of inroads on.

[28:56] MARINA KRICKLER: Solving problems you can't agree with.

[28:58] CRAIG PELLET: They are not just that, but also finding that common ground. If you have opposite sides believing two different things or opposite sides, you know, living in two different worlds.

[29:13] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[29:14] CRAIG PELLET: And I hope that we can bridge that gap.

[29:16] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah.

[29:17] CRAIG PELLET: Because I think once we do, it's going to be a lot easier to find common ground.

[29:23] MARINA KRICKLER: Yeah. And, you know, to that point, I mean, okay, so, you know, 2020 was the year of us watching Parts Unknown. Right. And, like, getting to know Anthony Bourdain. And, you know, it's funny, for a TV show, that was a really impactful one for me. I just, I think especially, I mean, of course, the international episodes were awesome, but the domestic ones, in which he goes into places that, like, you know, that you know nothing about and, like, maybe isn't much of a destination and you realize that, like, okay, fine, so maybe these lifestyles in different parts of the country look different from each other and people's values, like, or they favor different political parties. But in the end, we all want the same thing for our kids, right? I mean, we want them to have a healthy planet and good food to eat and, you know, we want them to be able to, like, live the life of their dreams and if we can centralize on that sort of stuff and like, fine, we can disagree about how to get there. You know, maybe we don't own any guns and these other folks own a lot of guns, but like, but of course they still want the best things for their children. So how do we find a way? Yeah, I mean, I sincerely hope we can. We have to find a way to knit back together and I really hope that with the start of the Biden presidency that we can make some progress in that direction. I mean, I know one person isn't going to solve everything or anything for that matter. I mean, it's going to take a lot of work on all of our behalves, but, yeah, we just can't. We can't continue on the path that we're on. And I hope for her, I mean, the big, big thing that has been sort of, I guess, thrown out of perspective this year is for me, it's climate change. I mean, I want her to have a healthy planet to grow up on for her and for her children's children. And that, oh my gosh, that is a huge one for me. And I hope that maybe with some of the other, once the pandemic becomes a little bit more under control, you know, we can start to refocus on that because, you know, if we don't have a planet to live on. Yeah, that's a problem. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's my number one. My number one hope for her is that we can, you know, find a way to preserve. Yeah. Preserve this planet and yeah, we can preserve the planet. Save democracy. Yeah, we just solved it all in a 40 minute StoryCorps conversation. If only. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess that about covers it, eh?

[32:03] CRAIG PELLET: I think it does. All right.