Mary Lanier and Joanne Low: Education, Leadership, and Family.

00:03 Good morning. Today is Friday, August 26, 2022. Joanne and I are here to share a couple stories with the San Francisco Village StoryCorps. My name is Mary Lanier. I am currently on the board about three years and serve as the treasurer. I am a retired nurse and medical center executive. And in the latter part of my career, actually the latter half, I built a lot of programs for seniors, mostly using grant money, and had some experience with presenting information to the board to get them to support our program. Some of those were the start of the palliative care program in my hospital organization that hadn't existed before. Now, obviously, some of this is years ago, and we had a Alzheimer's memory care unit and program and ran that, and we started a delirium prevention program in the hospital because older people have a tendency to get delirious when they're in the hospital and there's things you can do to prevent it. And that led to when Sutter CPMC was building the mission Brno campus. We developed an acute care for the elderly to put in that unit, which led to the relationship with San Francisco Village and my getting involved with Kate, Kate and the board. So it was a many year route to this place. But I'm happy to be here now. And with me today is.

02:03 Hi, good morning. I'm Joanne Low and I'm a San Francisco native, born and raised here in San Francisco, and I've been on the board for about five years. I'm retired from the City college of San Francisco, where I was originally an ESL instructor. And then I later moved into administration where we worked with, I guess 20,000 English as a second language students throughout the city, about 1500 international students, and also with the transitional studies department. And I was also the dean at the Chinatown North beach campus. That was one of our major locations. And that's probably some of my experience and different administrative positions at the college. But one of the things that pulled me into San Francisco village was the fact that the college had nine major locations throughout the city. And San Francisco Village was really interested in looking at how we could do outreach and work with all of the different neighborhoods in the city. And that seemed like a good match to talk about some of our experiences in meeting the needs of the different neighborhoods and the various populations. And I would say that that's really how I got started, first working on an outreach committee and then later being invited to serve on the board.

03:38 That's great, Joanne, I've really enjoyed working with you on the board and appreciate how you helped mentor me in the beginning, get my bearings in terms of who's who and what's what in terms of board expectations, that that is always in the back of my mind. You were very easy to talk to from the beginning, so thank you for that. When, Joanne, when you and I were talking about, you know, how, what we might put in the storycorps, you told me about a significant earlier life experience that sort of led to some of your career paths. So maybe you can share that for this project.

04:21 I think I was talking about the fact that when I was in high school and I had always been on the academic track, you know, there was no question that my parents, there's this expectation that there was something beyond high school in terms of education. And it wasn't until I was a senior and getting ready to apply that I realized that maybe that was mom's expectation. And dad was like, going, well, gee, isn't she just going to get married and have kids? Why does she need a college education? But he supported me, and I went off and I got my four year degree and my teaching credential and moved back home. At the time, I wanted to be a teacher, and all the school districts were not accepting applications. And I systematically, from San Francisco, as my main central point, called all the school district, and finally, there was a school district that said, yes, please, we would love it for you to send us your resume. It was Manteca, California. And I looked it up and I said to my parents, I don't think I can commute from there. Heyward, maybe, but Manteca, no. And my mom said, oh, well, that's very nice. You're single, you're not married. You are not going to be living by yourself in some place that she doesn't. She's never even heard of. So that sort of changed my direction and continued to look for educationally related positions here in the Bay area. And I ended up going to work for a manpower training program. And that just sort of changed my whole trajectory in terms of the population that I was going to be working with. But I think the story that we're talking about is that when I came home, my dad, who has always been supportive and proud, said, gee, I sent away a good girl, and look what I got in return. And I think what he was saying is I started to question a lot of things that maybe were taken for granted in the family. Why do we do this? Why do we have this custom? Why?

06:43 Why?

06:43 Why? I guess I became that three year old again. Why? Why? And he just said, oh, my goodness.

06:50 Yeah. But, you know, spreading your wings and having your own ideas, which I think for our generation was really important. We just did it later than what I noticed with my son. But I had a similar experience in that I was the oldest of ten children in a very traditional and catholic, irish, irish Catholic family. And my mother, you know, her whole life, she was raising kids, really for many, many, many years. And myself, my brother and my sister were like a year each apart. And we all went off to college. So in a four year period, you know, I think actually in a four year period, four of us had gone off to college. And when my sister and I came back, we started questioning things more. And we would disagree with my father, who was definitely in charge of the entire household, and he was a lovely, charitable man, but he was a doctor, and he was used to having to be the one making the decisions. And my sister and I started questioning that. And what's interesting is that my mother, who had never, at least as far as us kids could see, had ever disagreed with my father. When my sister and I started doing it, she got on the bandwagon. And it was the seventies, right? I mean, things were happening in terms of women's profile and women's rights, and it was just fascinating to watch. But I don't know that she ever would have picked up that mantle if my sister and I hadn't started it with my dad. To very positive results, mind you. He loved talking to us and debating ideas, and he liked that academic discourse. And so it sort of changed the whole dynamics in the family, I have to say, just us going away to college and coming back with wild and sometimes unacceptable ideas. But, you know, I think that being the oldest and sort of always being the first one to do something in a very large family made me comfortable enough to take on, you know, leadership positions in healthcare and in the hospital and sort of led to all that program development I was so fortunate to be involved with. But the one thing, my poor mom, she never really understood what I did. And when I would come home for a visit, because I moved to Chicago for college and graduate school, and I actually really never came back to St. Louis other than for visits. And she would always like, well, what exactly is it that you do? She could understand the doctors. My dad was one. She could understand the nurses at the bedside. She'd been in the hospital, but she couldn't find fathom what I was doing all day long or how excited I was about it. She'd look at me quizzically and what is it that you do try to explain being an administrator that, you know, because when you start talking about it, it sounds also unimportant and sort of routine. But I loved it, so it worked for me. But, yeah, she could never really fathom me. It wasn't, it wasn't house and home and children, you know, so I think.

10:34 You know, I was going to share a similar story is. Is that becoming a teacher was wonderful. You know, parents thought that was great. And then moving into administration, that was sort of okay. And then being the dean for the Chinatown North beach campus, that was wonderful because she could actually see that we were enrolling students, that we were offering classes that helped people. But when I moved into the vice chancellor of academic affairs position, I think my mother hasn't forgiven me yet because she goes, what do you do every day? What do you know? How are you helping people? You're so far away, you don't see students. And I think she just didn't get that part of the job. But what was interesting is my former supervisor shared a similar story, that when she was at Chinatown, mom was so proud, really understood the job. But when she moved on to be vice president instruction and then vice chancellor of academic affairs, her mom had a similar reaction. Like, what is it that you do? You know, I can't tell my friends what you do anymore.

11:55 Yeah. So I would say, just tell them I'm a nurse, mom. You know, that's fine. In our generation, obviously, you know, being a nurse or a teacher was very acceptable, one of the few acceptable jobs, you know, that they could all understand. And I was telling you early, and it comes to mind again now that I given that, that seemed to be a safe choice, you know, for us back then. I so admire the women that were older than me that I've worked with or raised money with, mostly who went to college in the thirties and forties. And it's like, what trailblazers they were, because that was, they had to really go against the grade. I mean, not only what are you doing? But why are you doing it? You're married, you could have this nice house, blah, blah, blah. Why are you spending time at that school? And I've always admired them. I think that they were real trailblazers and paved the way for us as hopefully we've paved the way for many, many other careers for the women that came after us so well.

13:20 You know, my daughter lives in this home that was designed by a woman architect. And I just love it, you know, I love that they left the old drawings. The story is she went to UC Berkeley, graduated with her degree in architecture, and was designing homes in the late fifties and sixties, but that she didn't go to an office every day. She was designing them at one end of her dining table while she was serving dinner and cooking and doing all of the other things at the other end of the dining table. So I said, life for them. Even though they went and they got their degrees and started their careers, they basically had two full time jobs. So I just love it when I walk through that house and I go, you know, this was designed by a woman who probably had a hard time getting her career off the ground. Stories that you've heard. I've heard of women who couldn't get jobs after graduating for various reasons. Because they're a woman one or because they're asian, you know, as an architecture degree. And I know of a woman who worked and ran the whole architecture office. And I often, I asked her, I said, why didn't you take that ultimate step and become an architect? And she said she had graduated, but they weren't giving her those jobs. Those are for the men in those days.

14:58 Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely true. The limits that were placed back then. Well, good for her. Yeah. You know, I just did kitchen remodel. I think I told you about it, actually, during pandemic. My contractor was a woman, my architect was a woman. I was like, great. We had a little girls club. We loved it. So, yeah, so, you know, our executive director for San Francisco Village is a woman, and she's wonderful to work with.

15:34 And for.

15:37 I think that being on the board, which is another thing we talked about covering today, you know, it's just been really rewarding for me to be with a group of people that work so well together, making a difference in the community and trying new things, you know, and forging different paths. It's hard for nonprofits these days, and we're so dependent on philanthropy that we have to continually be creative about that. But I. What I like about San Francisco Village board is that it's the board members. We're very active. We're very engaged and involved and have projects and ideas. And it's really clear that the staff and the executive director sort of want us to have ideas and suggestions and be involved. That being, you know, that if I was going to give advice to anybody else about joining boards, they're very different kind of boards out there. I mean, I don't know anything about the for profit boards, but on the nonprofit side, they're very different. You know, they can be like the village where the board members are actively involved and they're doing things and they're helping, really helping move the organization forward in different ways. And then there's other boards that I've been on that are just, you know, you show up for the meeting and you might make a comment or question something. I mean, obviously, you have to take your fiduciary responsibility as a board member very seriously, but otherwise, you know, like, in between, there's, like, nothing that goes on. So I just really love being on the board of the village because it is so inclusive and involved and active and constantly sort of trying to move forward. And the thing for me is I was very worried going into retirement that I would spend my time in non productive ways. I have a million ways to waste time. And, you know, it. Just being on a board, engaged in community work, engaged in elder care, which is, as a love of mine, mentioning the earlier programs I started has kept me really engaged in what's going on in the elder care world and in the philanthropy world. And I just, that's just wonderful to be able to still be involved and still make a difference. That's what I was looking for, is a way to give back and make a difference. And I think I can do that at the village, and I'm excited about.

18:36 It still, you know, Mary, you're right. The range of experiences on being on a board, this is only my second board that I've served on. The first board was also for a nonprofit, but I was on there for almost 20 years. But I think it was a growing process. When I first started, it was a younger organization, you know, very homegrown. I was the one doing the mailing list, you know, doing the computer thing, keeping, keeping the computer stuff started. It was very much hands on where we set dates, we would show up, and we would literally be there helping to register students for art classes and for programs. We were there cleaning, you know, cleaning the offices, doing the planting, pulling weeds. And as the organization grew, our roles changed. And I have to say that that was sort of hard for me to make that transition where you're in there, you're hands on. I would bring my kids with me, and they would be in the office with me. As we're working things, they're stuffing envelopes for fundraisers, and then we would transition wherever the staff was more than just one executive director, you know, they had an assistant for her, and then, oh, now we're going to have a bookkeeper. So it evolved to the point where it's more like the San Francisco Village board, where we're still very active, hands on, meeting regularly on committees, doing work, but we're not necessarily the ones that are standing at the table handing out flyers and handing out ticket numbers and doing that. But I have to say, I sort of missed it initially. It was a transition. I just had to learn to sit back, put on your seatbelt, don't get up.

20:35 Well, I can appreciate that, but I'm not ready to start pulling weeds. I have a hard enough time with that at home.

20:44 Yeah, no, I think San Francisco village has gone beyond that particular state. So I think, you know, for people interested in joining boards, it's really important to see if the culture and if it's what you want, if you're looking for really hands on, and it's a board that's been around for a while that might not be a really good fit, but you're bringing your ideas and you have, like, an energetic staff, a competent staff. You know, something like, San Francisco Village is a great place to be.

21:20 Yeah. Yeah. It's. You want to have a staff that you can help support, but not necessarily daily do the work. Right? I mean, that's the difference, right? So, yeah, it's fit for me. I think the culture there is wonderful, and I'm so proud of the things that they're doing and continuing to, you know, raise the issue about isolation and its impact on long time health and healthy aging and all of those topics that I personally think are important. You know, I mean, we're all getting older. There's not. That's not going to go away.

22:03 I think being on the board, one of the things that I really appreciated is to see the range of experiences in our board members. There's a range in terms of age, but also inexperience. Some people have worked directly with the older adult community and others haven't. So I've really appreciated that. And then during the pandemic with the shelter in place, we really had to pivot and offer our programs in a different manner. And I have to say that that was wonderful for me because I got to go to the coffee chat and do actually getting to meet more members face to face than if we were just doing everything in person. So I could go to two things back to back, and then it would also be a regular basis where you're seeing the same people. And I think that that helped me get to know our members better, to realize that there's a huge range out there in terms of financial, you know, kind of financial situation, but also family situations. I grew up here in San Francisco. My relatives, most of them are here now. And, you know, my mother in law, they were that generation that didn't want the kids to go away. Like when my daughter started applying to Washington and Boston, she was just going to, what's wrong with city college? What's wrong with Golden Gates? What's wrong with us? Did not want her to leave, but many of our members came to the Bay Area to attend Santa Clara University or USF or UC Berkeley or any of the universities here in the Bay area. And then they stayed to raise their families, which also means that many of their siblings and core family members are nothing, are not here in the Bay area.

24:08 Exactly. Yeah, that's our situation. Both Larry and I moved, you know, Larry, ultimately, his family's still in New York, and my family of origin is still in St. Louis, Missouri. But we worked hard at creating a family out here, you know, that. And, and my friends and I, we all mention it that way. It's like, well, this is our West coast family. This is our family of choice, not our family of origin. And it's really important to keep them close, particularly as we age, you know, age in place here, because even my son, I have one child, and he went away to Seattle to Washu for college, and he has stayed in Seattle. Now, I wanted him to go away to school because I really felt like he needed to become independent by, you know, he had, he had two over involved parents growing up. He needed to sort of be on his own, and it's been great for him. But I do miss him, you know, and I wish he kind of was still here in town, but I don't know if that's a, to happen. But you do. He's learned to create family and social support in Seattle, too. He's got a great support system there. But I think that you have to be conscious of it. You know, you have to choose people that you're going to keep in your life and work on those relationships and keep them in your life because there's no obligation, you know, family obligations, you know. Yes, you must show up at Christmas or you must show up at Thanksgiving or whatever, but here, it's not obligatory. It's, we choose it and it makes them very important to us, our West coast family. And in fact, we have some friends that we've had for the whole, I don't know, I guess I've been out here now like 39 years almost. Yeah, 39 years. And my one friend, I had a job where I was running a psychiatric unit for the hospital, and a woman interviewed with me who had just moved from Boston. This was like, three months after I moved here, and she had just moved from Boston because her husband to be was here and she didn't know anybody. And we clicked in the interview, we had the same idea about psychiatric care and mental health involvement and nursing's role and a whole lot of range of professional issues we agreed on. And when we were done with the interview, quite frankly, I said, you can have the job if you want it. I said, you can. I think you're overqualified, and you will be looking for something broader, you know, ultimately. But definitely, I know you can do the job, and I would love to have you work here. And when she turned it down, I said, I totally get it, and I think it makes sense and you should keep looking, but do you want to get together for lunch? We did. And I. 39 years later, our families vacation together every year. We see each other, you know, at least once a month on all holidays, you know, definitely became our family on the west coast. And I just. I think that's an important skill set for our younger folk as they move away to develop, too, you know, so that they do have that support system in place, which is what the village helps people do.

28:07 Right, right. Because I think, like, there are neighborhood circles in particular. I know I haven't had a chance, but it's like, our neighborhood circle was new. When I joined, there were, like, maybe six of us, and now there's, like, 20 of us, and we all live, you know, the whole concept of neighborhood circle and our zip code is we all live near each other, so people can go on walks together or actually be a support team for each other. It's a wonderful concept. And now we've expanded that to where there's, like, interests circles. So it's really a good way of getting people together and having that extended family and support system. We have a mem, remember I met her, she had followed her daughter to this area, and I said, oh, I could see that if I had one child. And, like Stephen, you might say, oh, I'm going to follow you to Seattle. But then the child changed jobs, and it's not even in the US anymore. She said, I couldn't follow, keep following her. And I think we all find ourselves ending up in different places for various reasons. And, you know, you think family is important, but I just go, well, gee, if she didn't follow the child, would there be like, you know, the support system that would have existed, you know, where, where they were living, all of those.

29:53 Right. Maybe not, you know? Yeah.

29:56 Yeah. So for me, when I hear some of the stories of our members, it makes me think about what is our future going to be? I know when my daughter was about twelve, a friend of ours said, you know, you've been very open with her about who she can be friends with, you know, the kinds of clubs or classes that she wants to take. What are you going to do when she's 21? Are you still going to be that open? Because she might not be here. And sure enough, that was the child who went away to school and called me, I think, five weeks in, and said, what am I doing here? I'm a family girl. Why did I go away to school? Um, but I'm, I'm happy she did. I think that that's all part of, part of the growing process.

30:52 Right, right. And then she came back. And is she the mother of your grandkids that you helped?

31:00 She is the mother of my, one of my grandkids, but she never really came back. When she graduated, she came back for the summer and then went to graduate school. And once she got to graduate school and she was working on her internship, I just said, I think that's it.

31:17 Yeah. Okay. So she didn't come back. Yeah, I know.

31:21 My child, the one that I thought would go away, far away, as soon as she could, is living upstairs from me.

31:28 So she never ran away from home?

31:31 No, but I thought for sure she would be the first to go.

31:35 Well, you just don't know. But I, I love your stories about your grandkids and your family. I think that, you know, it's just great to have them around and to be able to watch those younger ones grow up. It's a lovely thing for you. I enjoy the story. So thank you. Is there anything else you think we should add? I don't know. We probably.

32:03 You know, it's interesting. Well, I think there was one of the questions that they had asked and I, for me, it was sort of an interesting question about a moment of kindness that someone, they did something for you. And I think growing up, when you're younger, you're always looking for who you are, what, you know, are you really yourself, an individual? Are you really just kind of serve an extension of your parents? And I know for myself, growing up, that wasn't allowed a whole lot of freedom in terms of varying ideas. Right. And one of the things that this person did at the very last minute, there was something at work, and they said I needed to have a speaker. And this person came at the very last. It's like calling her at 05:00 and she shows up at 515 to speak on an issue.

33:09 Wow.

33:09 And I just thanked her profusely and said, I am so happy that you did this for me, but, you know, almost like, why? You didn't have to. And what she said was that, because I knew that that's what you would do for me. And I just said, oh. And it made me kind of rethink things because there are times that I do things for people because I want to, I want to be helpful. I want to be useful. And I feel like if I can do it, if I can physically really do it, I'll just do it. I think when that person did that for me and then said those words, it sort of made it real, like it was okay. Because I think people for me has always been, you're too nice. I don't think I'm too nice. So, you know, the story that I tell is one of my supervisors once said to me goes, Joanne, your problem is that you're too nice. You need people to like you. And then about, he was kind of a new supervisor, and then about three months later, he said, joanne, your problem is you don't care whether people like you or not. And I think what he always saw was the part where I tried not to be nice. I think I tried to be kind. Even if the message is not a positive message, if it's, I'm going to say, hey, you know, you're, you're, you're not getting the job or whatever. I try to be kind. There's no, you know, you don't have to be mean about things. And I think he mistook that for just always giving people what they want.

35:03 Yeah. Yeah.

35:04 And then what he realized later is that I'm actually kind of tough, and I hold, I hold my ground, or at least I try to. And when I retired, people were coming into the office, and this one woman was so sad. And I said to her, I said, you know, I don't give you everything you want. I don't say yes to you a lot of the time. And then she said yes. But I know that if you say no to me, it means that you've already really looked for a solution. There is no solution. And the next person coming in behind me will get the same answer. And I think that's something that I feel like is important, that there's our integrity, our credibility. You can't buy that and you can't sell it. And over my lifetime, I feel like there, I wish there were things I knew 40 years ago.

36:08 Well, being kind and being fair, you know, fair is if you're in any kind of management or administrative thing. I remember, actually, there was one professor in my undergraduate, he was a Jesuit. I went to a Jesuit college, and, and I've never forgotten this. He said, the genius of true communication is to develop the skill to be honest, you know, hold your ground, stay, you know, whatever, be honest and kind at the same time. And that, you know, you can give feedback. And, you know, now in administration, they teach you all these things, you know, about the sandwiching stuff. You know, if you're trying to give somebody critical feedback, you should. You have to say a positive thing. Then you say the critical thing, then you say, finish on another positive thing, you know, and it's like, okay, now we need to teach people how to do that. But it's really just about human communication and being, you know, get conveying whatever message you need to or want to, but doing it in a way that you can be heard and that is perceived as at least taking the other person into account. So being kind, I just think what you're talking about is, you know, sort of the essence of a good communicator, you know, somebody that can be respected. So I totally connect with that. Yeah. I mean, I was in college, you know, 50 years ago, so I just, I still have remembered that because it just stuck with me because I'm kind of naturally bossy. I think that was just from an early age, I had a role in terms of corralling children, younger children than me. And so I'm sort of naturally bossy. And so I worry that I come across as too direct or too harsh. And so I think that's why that, that statement from so many years ago just has always stuck with me about tone it down a little bit, you know, think about what you're saying and how it's going to be perceived, because my natural tendency is to be quite a lot more blunt, which can often be misinterpreted. Right. And so whenever people come back and people that employees of mine have come back and were screaming about whatever was so unfair and so wrong, whatever, if I had followed that dictate in whatever conversation I have with them, I just, you know, let them have their say and move on because I knew I wasn't right. That was just sort of a philosophy I tried to live by.

39:11 Well, you know, I think you were. You're the oldest in your family. I'm the eldest, too, and there are a lot of pressures that are put on the eldest in the family. I don't know why my parents just thought that if I did things a certain way, that my brother and sister would do the same thing. Mom even convinced me at one point to move home, because she goes, if I move home, my sister would follow and she would move home. I moved home. She never came back home.

39:44 Because you were there and she didn't need to be there. Right.

39:48 Mom, there is a flaw in this. You know, this whole theory of yours here, that they're the way I do it. And I go, no, because it's not who they are. And I think one of the things that I've always held true or I've learned is, is that whatever it is that I do, the decisions I make, how I process, process things, how I run my meetings, I have to be true to myself, because there have been times where people go, why? You know, they would say something like, oh, why can't you be more like Mary? More direct, more, you know, stronger? And I would do that, and then they would just say, what happened to you? We don't like this.

40:30 And I go, this is what you.

40:32 Told me to be. And so I feel like people who are true to their personalities and who they really are and their values, that you can be more successful.

40:43 Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And we can't all be the same, and we can't copycat other people. I mean, we have to sort of be ourselves, so. Well, Joanne, this has been fun, actually, I'm going to thank Jessica for getting us involved.

41:01 I always enjoyed talking, talking to you and getting to know you better and enjoyed working with you on the board so much, especially when it comes to talking about data.

41:12 Same here. And I'll have news for you on that front really soon.

41:17 Okay.

41:18 All right. I'm going to end the recording, and then we'll see. I think it'll cut us off. So if you have any questions or anything, like send it back, you know, send me it or call me back or whatever. I don't know. Okay.

41:32 It's great talking to you.

41:34 I'm just rambling on here, but I think I hit this button. Let's see.