Mary Mills and April Banks

Recorded January 24, 2020 Archived January 24, 2020 33:32 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: mby019591

Description

April Banks (47) talks to new acquaintance Mary Mills (56), an African-American woman who surfs in the LA county area.

Subject Log / Time Code

AB asks MM how she got started surfing.
MM describes her relationship to the ocean and how she understands the water.
MM describes the local surf culture where she's at.
AB asks MM about her nickname: "Surf Sister"
MM describes the difference between a surf board, body board and surf mat.
AB asks how MM developed strong swimming skills and overcame her fears around being in the ocean.
MM talks about the community of Black female surfers and the representation of Black surfers in the media.
AB and MM talk about beach culture, surf history and race.
AB discusses her relationship to surfing.

Participants

  • Mary Mills
  • April Banks

Recording Locations

Virginia Avenue Park

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Outreach

Initiatives


Transcript

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00:03 I'm Mary Mills. I'm 56 years old. Today's date is Friday January 24th 2020. The location is Santa Monica, California. The name of my interview partner is April Banks, and we don't really know each other yet.

00:23 My name is April Banks. I am 47 years old. Today's date is February 24th. 2020 location is Santa Monica, California. I am interviewing Mary Mills and I am a curious failed Surfer.

00:46 So hi Mary, how are you? I'm great. I'm happy you agreed to come even though we don't really know each other. I am an artist here working here in Santa Monica on a project about black history or African American history and is a part of that. You know, I feel like we should be celebrating the ocean celebrating nature. And so I decided I wanted to talk to you lack Surfer and then when I heard about you I was like, yes, she's who I want to talk to you. So that's kind of how we got here today. And so yeah, let's just let's just talk about how you got started then and like what your experience has been like cuz we know that needs to pretty rare thing. We're just calling you a unicorn black woman Surfer. So yeah.

01:46 How did you get started in?

01:48 I had wanted to serve since I was I don't know 11:12. I saw it on.

01:57 ABC's Wide World of Sports you're probably too young for that and I was just captivated but I didn't swim and have straightened hair. So how is that going to happen but fast forward decades later. I've cut off my hair. I've learned to swim and I've decided it's time to learn how to serve and that was almost 18 years ago.

02:23 So I've been surfing ever since.

02:26 Nice and do you is there like a particular place that you that you like to go? Do you go up in all up and down the coast here? We have a focus bad I go up and down the coast of La I'd like a true server. I'm not going to tell you where I search local break you want to respect the locals respect the break so yeah, I surf between

02:59 County Line and then further south that's all I'll say. Okay. So as we are walking in you I asked if you had gone surfing this morning and he said that the tide was too high. So, you know, this is where I'm really showing my ignorance about like how do you I've heard of like a surf cams and other things but like, how do you how do you judge the water? Like what's your relationship to the water in that way or you know when you start surfing especially when you start as an adult, you know anything so you don't know Tides you don't know Direction. You don't know what swell Direction works for what beach but if you're Vigilant and you really care to learn you'll learn so right now we have a full moon which means we have big titled swings and that's not helpful for surfing for the most part if you serve for the bee.

03:59 Freddy can I know you're going to want to see the look on my face closer on this and you can't surf that if you have a low tide it's further out but there's usually no shape. So you just going up and over so for Beach breaks, which is mainly what i surf you want to admit tied. So when I went out this morning that tide was up past 6 feet and still climbing. There was nothing I could do with that. So on days like that to you so you just leave or do you hang out on the beach?

04:40 Most days. Well, I only serve one day a week right now. I'm working stiff single parent. So you got to do what you got to do most days that I serve. I would go home and come back. But today I had to be here. So I went home and lifted weights instead nice. So if you come once a week, does there certain time of day like you have a preferred time of day to Surf I prefer to surf in the morning and it's usually better in the morning that's good for the wind gets on it, but I dropped my son off and then I go to the beach and then I have to go back and pick him up. He only have half day. So I'm private so

05:19 Everything right now in my surf life revolves around my kid and my job. Does he start with the board swallowed some water?

05:34 He was done and I respect that he might come back to it. So I know you don't.

05:44 Talk about where you go surfing but like the culture of Surfing do you do surf alone is it a group of people that you typically served with like what is what is that Community like

06:00 I go alone, but I don't surf alone because if you are a regular Surfer people know you so even if you think I'm just going to go to this break and quietly he married. Hey, hey, so now I do drive there alone, but I usually know somebody if not several people in the water at this point my life and especially living in La which is so crowded. I would prefer some quiet in the water and you can't get it anymore. We have too crowded here. And is it because there is a tourist location or is it this locals mostly people everywhere even at the beach and every time you turn around there's people everywhere.

06:53 Surfing is not as much of a getaway or as it used to be. So what is the etiquette of like sharing sharing the water sharing the way?

07:07 Audi R8

07:11 There is etiquette that a lot of people don't follow.

07:16 Usually you take turns if you're following me out of kid, if if I get a wave I don't paddle back out to the lineup and turn around and get the next week cuz I let other people get that.

07:28 If several of us are paddling if I'm the first one out for the first one the one closest to the curl, it's my wave. That's the etiquette we should follow that that is followed. Okay. So especially if you're Surfing With Friends, you just jump on each other's waves nobody cares and then you yell at each other after it's fine. So you said when you go sometimes people say hey Mary, but I also know you have the name sir sister. So where did that name come from? Is that like a on the water named versus like on the street name? Like, how did how did the to work my pen name and some people know my real name?

08:20 When I first learned how to surf I took a Class A woman surfing class and there was this one woman there.

08:29 I remember her voice, but every time trying to remember what it was about her. She was trying to be cool if she was trying to be and I was the only black person in the class and she would always whenever I get away should go sister Surfer sister Surfer did this bottle so I finally just took the name surf sister and she send that I started writing a surf blog in 2005 mainly to keep track of my progress cuz I have a terrible memory. So soon as we leave this booth. I won't remember one word I said and so I started a Blog to keep track of my progress and I took the name sir sister.

09:10 Yeah, I found her your Vlog online. When I when I did find it. I was seeing things like that. You like to be on a mat. So like what's the difference? So I'll just say that I'd like to bodyboard but I've never successfully surfed and I see them is like two radically different things. But you know, maybe you can explain the the range of things. I know you both mad and surf surfboard you you like both of those. Well, this is where the True Unicorn comes out. Okay. I think 95% of the world doesn't know about surf Matt's. Okay. So here you have a black woman Surfer on a surf map. So you want to get people to stare at you.

10:04 Oh and I wear custom wetsuits. So I might be in a light blue wetsuit brown skin dread locks on a surf map There You Go, the whole beaches staring at me, but can you describe the surf mat? It's an inflatable surfcraft. It's like a bodyboard but better because it's malleable and even if you manipulate the air in it in order to ride the wave it's just fun really fun really fast and really different that you could probably tell I like things that are different different different.

10:43 Surf boards different wetsuits

10:46 So what makes the what's the difference in your experience being on a surfboard versus being on the mat?

10:55 The mat is more visceral. You can feel the wave you're right there with the wave. So you're laying down or standing up I want to say I prefer the map but I like them both. So if you're beginning Surfer is one easier to approach now, the maps difficult is harder than a bodyboard because it's not stiff. So if you don't know what you doing, you're going to hate it, but I like a challenge. So I love it.

11:35 So I was saying earlier that the the one of the most difficult part I had about surfing was like actually getting out like, you know, I'm not a super strong swimmer and then like some healthy fear of the ocean and like all the the natural elements so

11:55 How how did you kind of overcome he said you were late to surfing but how did you kind of like adjust to your swim skills and like what it takes to be in the ocean. And if you had me fear years I had even though I could swim when I started surfing I had serious anxiety about trying to get in a big board past the breaking waves out to the lineup and it lasted.

12:26 I want to say almost 10 years.

12:30 And for the first few years, I'm just stand there had the water's edge just terrified. Yeah, and I could serve but then I'm just terrified and now I still have some anxiety that I just got like shrug my shoulder just go.

12:48 But I still have a little bit of it where I'm just

12:51 Those waves look a little big. I don't know if I can do this and of course I can do this after 18 years. So you're just work with your fear. You should be afraid of the ocean. I want people say I have no fear in the ocean while you're stupid kill. You know, she won't hurt you respect. That's my main thing just respect the ocean cuz there are days when it's really big and especially guys will say yeah, let's get out there. What are you scared right here in the parking lot where I'll be safe, you know. So the one thing about surfing is to learn to respect the ocean and know your limits.

13:39 That's okay to have fear always.

13:43 So in respecting the ocean, I know a lot of people kind of have like a spiritual practice or they feel like it's a ritual to be in the ocean. And then for other people, it's just purely sport Whittier your where do you fit in that Spectrum or do you even feel like that's an accurate way to consider it?

14:08 That's good question.

14:12 You know, I'm one of those people just do it. Just go don't overthink it.

14:17 So I don't I don't even consider that kind of thing. Now. I just go surf that's what I left. It makes me feel good. I'm good at it. So you get a little

14:31 Positive reinforcement but spiritual if they too many people in the water for it to be spiritual. Okay, cuz just when you think it's quiet here comes somebody paddling by here comes somebody yelling are there are two people over there fighting nerds.

14:46 So it's just surfing is just surfing and I think sometimes people make more of it than it is just you and the board and waves will but if you've never experienced that it's hard to to know exactly what that means. So what could you describe like the feeling the sensation of it? No, no, it's just so it's just so like a part of you now an over-thinker.

15:21 I'm getting less inclined to do that as I get older cuz I just don't care of 56. Like I've seen it all experienced it I don't care but I still have all these thoughts going in my head like everybody has but when I get in the water, they get quiet.

15:39 Now I also meditate and the thoughts don't get as quiet when I meditate and they're not supposed to you. Just you know, but in the ocean I can literally just shut off my brain.

15:54 And that's one thing that I love about surfing so I don't sit there thinking I'm going to do this and I feel that I just sit there.

16:03 And then here comes a wave. Okay. I'm going to get this wave. Okay, I'm going to paddle back out but that's about it. And then you know, there's a little

16:13 Ego if you get a good wave. You think it's did anybody see that we all

16:27 Do you know any other black women Surfers? I do I know but it's okay. We are a bunch of unicorns. I do there's Andrea who you will never see but she's a fantastic Surfer here in Southern California. So that's why I always step up because someone has to represent.

16:58 Yeah, and so that that's a great a great Point like representation visibility. I know there have been a few films like walking on water 12 miles north. What's the other one?

17:13 Whitewash. Yes, whitewash wood in your late. They really focus on access to water learning how to swim when even one of them. I think it was in whitewash even kind of put forth this theory that that black people have an aversion to water because of its like the historical trauma the relationship of you know, the transatlantic slave trade and like and then you know, I'm more obvious one is like segregation and denied access to pools and I see you're you're having a reaction. So Twitter Twitter, what are your feelings about? Like why why there's so little representation and visibility of black people and people of color and surfing and

18:00 What can we do about it?

18:02 Well social media is already doing a lot cuz I thought they were just a few black Surfers. Then I got on Instagram and people popping up right left their black Surfers all over the place. So, you know, we don't run the commercial media. We don't run the the surf magazines not going to show us that they only show certain people to a certain demographic. But even though I hate social media and I am on it, it's pretty Democratic. So if you want to be seen you get seen

18:41 I forgot what the question was what the question was. Yeah just about visibility. And and how do you feel about these theories of why there so few black people in surfing? Well, what do you think is the reason?

18:59 Well for one thing I think they're more that we know of cuz you know, we've always said black people of service. Do you have this whole continent of Africa most of which is surrounded by water and you mean to tell me nobody there Gets In The Water? That's bull.

19:16 Now my theory about American Surfers is yes, we've been cut off from it. I meant black American Surfers cuz how many black people really live by a beach have had historical access to a beach now lot of blacks in Santa Monica did it because then it's Santa Monica was black before we were all kicked out, but I think black women don't serve because of the hair. I'm almost certain of it.

19:48 Because you know blessed be truthful black women have this thing about got straighten my hair my hair has got to look perfect. You're not going to go to the beach and mess that up. So it's changing.

20:02 You were just talking about how there used to be black communities, you know by the beach in Santa Monica and Venice and that's kind of how I come to this project as an artist. I'm working on commemorating a community that was displaced and it was there and yes, they had a you know, the few historical images that we have. There's like he do black people enjoying the beach laying out in the beach. There was a beach club where people from the rest of La could come and bring bathing suits and an even shower so we know that you know, there used to be a culture and like more visibility of of black people on the beach and so I'm super interested in and reminding all of us, you know of this history and that we do have a right to the water into nature. And so yeah. I hope that this conversation can add to that represent.

21:02 Ocean visibility of of black people and people of color in the water. Will you know what? It is all history. Nobody's telling our story.

21:18 So if you don't get to voice our story, we're invisible. So as far as America knows we don't swim we don't go to the beach. We don't need to know all these list of what we don't do what they were black people doing all these things the whole time.

21:36 Yeah, and then we were just talking about Nick Gabaldon earlier. And so what and I and I I I only knew of him or learned of him recently and I'm doing this project and that there's even a day to commemorate him but

21:53 Tell us a little bit about him again. I don't know the whole history. I'm mainly fascinated by the fact that he couldn't physically step on the beach at Malibu. So he would take his board from Santa Monica and paddle all the way to Malibu.

22:14 That's like a superhero. I just am blown away by that. That's why the title that film 12 miles north and he's literally paddling 12 miles up from where he could enter at. You know, it's known as Inkwell Beach, but the that's also considered derogatory.

22:33 Long flat Seducer disagreements about that but Bay Street beaches, I think the official name. But anyway, he would enter there and then paddle 12 miles up to to Malibu. That's like unbelievable and he's the considered the first documented African American and Mexican surfer in the United States and also died while surfing and so sad at the city of Santa Monica has a day usually the first Saturday in June to commemorate him with so few people know the history or even know about the stay. So again, this is another thing that I want to like bring visibility to and amplify and so

23:16 Did he when did you learn about him? And did he have any kind of sense of Pride? And he's anything like how did how did you learning about him effect affect you and when did you hear about him? I don't remember. It's been years.

23:34 Of course, there's Pride how many people can paddle that far?

23:40 Like I said, he's a superhero.

23:44 It didn't affect me so much because

23:50 I'm not sure where my intersectionality plays.

23:55 What's my surfing sometimes to me? It's more important.

24:00 To uplift female Surfers. Sometimes it's more important to upload Black servers and it's all a jumble for me. He's one of many but for me, he's not the only one so

24:17 He still superhero. Yeah, I don't know.

24:27 This is a random question. But what do you eat till I feel you like out there in the water. I know it takes so much energy on an empty stomach can't work out with food in my stomach.

24:45 So I ate nothing and then afterwards I just

24:56 I'm not anorexic. You're looking at me see that I just don't care about food.

25:02 So where does the energy come from?

25:06 Dinner, I don't know. I've been athletic my whole life. I mean, I'm 56 and still athletic. It's just all of this is natural to me now. It's second nature. I just work out and then when I'm hungry. Late

25:24 So I saw that you are also cyclists or soccer player. Who's all these other. Yeah. Yeah. So I do all this world tell us about all the other athleticism in and how did it help with surfing

25:41 Well, I've been atletic literally my whole life. So while surfing was not easy to learn to do the athleticism it took was not to call so I could immediately pop up on a board. I could paddle put pretty strongly but I could not read those ways. I never knew when the paddle and pop up and just sit there but yet because I've always been athletic. I can shift gears to anyting athletic. So I'm going to go. All right, but just

26:19 Luckily, I don't know. It's just second toe surfing did not come easy because you have to learn the ocean will just think about it. Everything's moving. You're moving the boards moving. The water is moving. They have to learn but in terms of just athleticism and being able to stay out there. That was easy. I could do that.

26:43 So do you feel like you have to be a flag to be a surfer? No, but it helps if you doing it, right it's taxing. So you need to be athletic to be out there and do it for hours and it helps to swim.

27:06 Cuz people say well I have a leash on what if your lease breaks and leashes break.

27:17 Was looking I remember what I was looking up something when I was looking you up and it took me to some other random things. I think maybe I was looking up here and I saw this thing that looks like a bridge like a flexible bridge that goes like up and over the wave and people literally walk to it. And then so is that like a cheat to get out to the with that is it's not, okay. Yeah, I seen that.

27:46 I have no idea. Yeah, I was like is that something like a training tool for newbies? Is that just like a tourist thing? But yeah, it just seemed like a it's a easier way to get out out to the waves and other than paddling most of us have to paddle. I think where you saw that it must be Rocky or dangerous. So how do you know when there's Rock Casino? The coasts here has a lot of rock. How do you how do you know where is where it's safe people tell you to go?

28:25 Some places a rock if there's one spot that I love and I surf all the time and my feet tell the tale of stepping over those rocks getting my feet cut. I've got scars and

28:39 You just know but you have to be careful getting in and getting out cuz you follow these two people get hit and dropped their boards. You just learned that's part of Surfing. It's part of the culture you learning speech.

28:54 So if you could

28:57 Tomorrow next week just like

29:01 Pop-up in on any beach in the world. Where have you dreamed of going? I've never dreamed of going San Diego.

29:15 And remcon I've always served in California. You reach a point where you think?

29:23 I'm fine. This is this is good. So I haven't dreamed about it. I'm supposed to be going to Hawaii later this year for my honeymoon, but I don't even care if I certify I just want to be with my husband really well. Congratulations on your your upcoming marriage.

29:45 Yeah, any any questions you have for me?

29:50 When you going to try surfing again, just put me on the spot.

29:58 I don't know maybe somewhere warm. I I found it really difficult. Like I said, I'm not super strong swimmer the cold water and then like the wetsuit, you know, I'm trying to to literally swim was just so I don't like this is must be easier and warmer water, but I don't know. I'm just making an assumption and maybe I'm making an excuse and maybe you just have to show me but I do have a really healthy fear the ocean. So I think it's like a combination of all of those things. Although I love the ocean always have was drawn to California for that reason, even though I grew up on the East Coast always went to

30:40 The Atlantic Ocean like Virginia Beach and all those and it's but it's warm and fairly calm and so on a boogie board bodyboard. I was fine and I would spend hours and then so that's why I thought like when I get to California, I'll try surfing and totally different totally different and I think it just yeah kind of shocked and intimidated me and I haven't gone back and tried it try down here. Cuz where you were the water was colder. I'm sure you had on a really thick wetsuit wouldn't have been possible to pass. But if you try down here, you still need a wetsuit. But Elite dinner. Are you nice to go to Hawaii? We all need to go to Hawaii?

31:28 Hawaii I mean I can think of lots of places that I would love I mean, yeah, I spent a lot of time in Senegal and I know they have a surf culture there I did not try surfing there.

31:45 Yeah, I think.

31:49 Oh, I know the question about your about your blog and writing. Are you still writing? And do you think that helps?

32:00 With I know you said you right, you know for your own cuz like recording your own process and you're just your own experiences, but do you think that helps with visibility or is it just a totally personal reason that you do it? I don't ride it anymore. And I think it did help and does help with visibility. That's another reason why I wrote it because I don't want anyone to ever say they were never any black women Surfers.

32:35 And I'll leave it to you know, if I die tomorrow the block is still there. So no one can say we did we weren't here at surfing. Yeah, that's exactly what this project I'm working on is about as like recording history telling stories telling personal stories and then how they feed into a larger Collective history. So yeah again, it was like super important to me that this be included in that that history and you know just have that conversation so I know

33:10 Today is the first time we're meeting in person. And I really appreciate you taking the time and yeah, just sharing this with everyone. This is such a great.

33:20 Thing that we all should know about so, thank you. Thank you.