Michi Vojta and Bruce White

Recorded April 16, 2006 Archived April 16, 2006 01:17:01
0:00 / 0:00
Id: MBX001308

Description

Bruce White interivews his partner, Michi Vojta, about her travels to Kenya with the PeaceCorps, what she learned, what she experienced, and what she taught.

Participants

  • Michi Vojta
  • Bruce White

Transcript

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00:00 Can green beans.

00:05 My name is Bruce White. I'm 36 years old. This is Easter Sunday, April 16th, 2006. We're at the storycorps mobile sound booth in my original home town of Durham North Carolina, and I'm interviewing my close friend and partner Mickey.

00:24 I'm itchy vojta. I am 35 years old today is again the 16th of April 2006. It's my Uncle Don's birthday. And we're here in Bruce's hometown of Durham and I'm here with my friend Bruce White.

00:40 Michi we've known each other for a long time we met our freshman year in college at NC State and forestry school and we were very close friends all through our college career the pretty well throughout your career. You knew that you were going to join the Peace Corps once you graduated from college and once you did that, we sort of lost touch for quite a while. So I would like to know a little bit more about what happened with you. Once you left for the Peace Corps. What what store has expectations did you have when you when you went and where did you go in and just tell me a little bit about what happened?

01:22 I went to Peace Corps in a year after I graduated college. So 1993. I had known for quite some time subconsciously. I don't know how long I knew consciously maybe the whole time in college that I would go to Peace Corps. And as you know, nobody was surprised that perhaps my parents but pretty much everybody's not at their heads. Oh, yeah, that sounds like something you would do. I ended up going to Kenya which was not at all where I had anticipated that are not at all where I had originally hoped to go.

02:00 And so that I guess some of the expectation I thought I was going to go to Latin America. I thought I would have more opportunity to use my forestry degree. I wanted to go someplace with you know, the tropical forests and I had all these ideas of what I would see and then when they told me they're sending me to Kenya and all I could picture was Savannah and desert I was I was pretty surprised but I had a wonderful time I loved it. And again, I thought of just going with the flow if they sent me there and I felt it was my responsibility to go wherever they sent me. I had thought I was a little

02:37 Idealistic a little bright-eyed and bushy-tailed about what I was going to do and accomplish when I went to Peace Corps. I went thinking that I was going to teach I was going to transfer this information in this knowledge in this technology that we had in the US. I felt growing and being race in the US. I was very lucky and that I wanted the opportunity to share that but I went and I found out that I really there's a lot more about learning and I was therefore I was in Kenya originally for three and a half years and I found out that I got I got a lot more than I gave and I learned I learned a lot.

03:21 You feel like you learned a whole lot more than what you ended up giving.

03:25 I feel so yes, I feel I did.

03:29 Someone I don't know what's anyone from the outside would say, but I learned a lot about how just to just how to live how to be happy.

03:39 Are happier. I realize how much that we have in the US that is not.

03:46 Necessary how much we take for granted how much we think is required a car a house with air conditioning computer. You know when I was at work when the phone line and electricity was down and we thought we couldn't get anything done. And then can you I think they would just be so surprised at how we take that for granted much less. You know how lucky we are that we we take that for granted. I don't I don't wish that I didn't have that at all. And I know how lucky I am that I can take that for granted but it does give me pause after having lived there for so long and live without so much of what I you take for granted now every once in awhile, and it does give me pause about how am I active life I start assuming all these things that I need and I realized I'd like to take a step back and see if you know any of this.

04:44 You're probably even happier then than you are now a lot of ways the people that you lived with and worked with their did you see them lacking or wishing? They had more than what they had or did they seem to be pretty happy. Yes. I mean everybody wants more than what they have and then

05:05 The Canyons I live with our with lived with are very aware amazingly. So of what?

05:14 American life is they have an idealized version of it. They get what they get on TV and in the papers and then the news so they're not neces the view isn't necessarily accurate. But at the same time it's sort of the idea that people around the world hold up and not necessarily correctly, but they do say oh, you know, they think they had an idea of what

05:40 My life what they thought my life in the u.s. Is

05:44 And it wasn't necessarily right, but I know you asked me waiting for any sort of.

05:55 Envy on their part or did they seem to be

06:00 Wishing that they can live a more like a life more like you would here in the states or did they seem pretty well satisfied with with how they were able to live their lives there. And did you influence that and then you in any way as far as making them? Wish they had what you had here? Yes, they wish they had more.

06:26 Yes, they were very good at being happy with what they had. Probably not I probably did as much as I tried to I went to pieces. I was young and like I said very idealistic and I really spent a lot of time trying to explain to them that they didn't really need to idealize that I don't know that that made any difference but I think they it might have not in so much what I was trying to tell them but I think it might have just in how much they saw that I learned and the other people who are in Peace Corps or vso the other people who came from different countries and live there.

07:08 Not so much in my community but in the country as a whole I think like onions.

07:14 People from the recipient countries understand that they have something as well. They have something to offer and I'm I'm glad they know that.

07:25 Did they seem very willing to to teach you their ways and what they knew and did they did they seem to enjoy doing that for you work so hard to learn Swahili and they were thrilled that we could have conversations strictly in Swahili and that I could berate.

07:45 Local Street kids almost pretty well not as well as them but I can provide some pretty well in Swahili. Yeah, they were interested. They were very pleased that I was so interested in learning their culture and trying to live

08:05 In a way that they know was not typical for me, you know without electricity without running water without phones. This is before cell phones, as you know, without you no personal vehicles except for bicycles are very they're very happy. But you know, there was also some sharing I I tried to people didn't bake where I live. So I taught, you know, I was trying to promote solar cooking as part of my field would Reduction Program that I was idealistic we trying to promote and one of the only ways I could get people to come to the solar cooking demonstrations was to give him a treat I would bake a cake, which is just about all I could do in the kitchen anyway, so I would bake a cake and throw it in the slow cooker and they were so thrilled they would come and watch it bake and be so surprised that it would work and I thought that was great sometimes.

09:05 Oh, I think they mostly came because I wanted the recipe.

09:08 But that was okay to I was happy to see some they mostly wanted a baking lesson, but that's okay. If I if that's all I can share with them and teach them how to bake so they can make a cake for a special occasion or that's all I could do was teach a girl how to ride a bicycle because girls in my community weren't often taught to ride a bicycle. And if I if that's all I could do is make her happy that way that's how I learned to scale back my expectations of what I could accomplish and that was some

09:39 That was one of the things if that was all I could do. That's okay, too.

09:43 Do you think that the did your ability just go back to his expectations increased your enjoyment and you're learning from being there?

09:52 Or

09:54 Did that?

09:56 The fact that you had just got the text expectations did that bother you or did you quickly embrace the fact that you are actually learning more than then then what you were teaching, you know, when you're a kid and you see these adults who?

10:12 Have resigned themselves to the fact that they're not going to change the world and you're a kid, you're like, I don't know why they've given up and so that was a nice.

10:23 You could call it a wake up call. You can also called a smack in the face the fact that I was there and you know, if I was in this whole community and I had two years and I stayed a third and yet all I could do was get maybe two people to use a solar cooker that never did before and only

10:43 50 people to build mud stoves that didn't have them before and that's only because I brought them to them, you know, they're always available. You know, I was able to give out thousands tens of thousands of seedlings and and seeds and things like that. So

10:59 But you know it does.

11:03 It does humble you or I did humble me.

11:08 You ask about expectations and I didn't realize I had expectations that I would be successful at at least some level other than what I ended up being successful in I thought oh well at least, you know, it'll spread throughout my community. It's perfect for solar cooking Oro it'll spread throughout in my community men won't beat their wives or they won't have but will be polygamous but you realize that you really do have very little influence. This is a culture that spin.

11:36 This is a culture that's been going on for a long time and

11:40 One little bright-eyed bushy-tailed American Girl isn't going to is it going to change everything overnight? Probably never will but you know, you do change things on a very small level. I learned to respect that sense of scale a lot more but there's one girl who had a

12:00 An injection of vaccination when she was too. Even know if I told you the story of vaccination when she was 2 years old or something like that and when I met her she was 14 16, her leg was lamed because of the vaccination.

12:17 So she had this big and it doesn't like in the US had this big leg brace and she flirts when she walks and she was in her leg was atrophied. Nobody gave her therapy so that her legs would be normally normally shave for evenly shaped and

12:33 Even though there are a lot more people in the community that are

12:38 Deformed wasn't a very PC where but are are differently formed and that's more accepted even so she you know individual aren't necessarily quite as fully accepted as others she spent and she's also the baby of the family so she spent a lot of her life.

12:55 With people who weren't sure that she

13:00 Somehow she got the impression that she couldn't accomplish the same as everyone else and so she was nuts early, but she never seemed very happy. So you just went Smile as much as her sister than everybody else can and smile just so wonderfully and she didn't smile as much she didn't seem as happy. She wasn't as outgoing.

13:20 So I randomly decided that that family I was very close to her family and I thought well, I'll teach her how to bake a cake.

13:30 Because she's the youngest and she's an age that I thought was fun time to learn to cook.

13:39 And she didn't want to come she said she wanted it or she didn't seem like she wanted to come her father said no, yes. Yes. Yes, my boy wants to come over and so I said she can come over and she didn't come over all day and we waited and waited and then she didn't come over and I talked to her father. I said look, I don't want to force her. No, no. No she wants to she is very excited. Okay, so, you know, this was a solar cooker. It has to go in the oven early in the morning. She shows up at like 6, I swear she must have been forced by her father cuz he limped over and she has that Surly look on her face not so much that she's angry at me. But more of a look that says I can't do this and therefore I don't want to want this because then I won't be disappointed when I find out I can't so I but you know taking cake baking is so easy. So I told her how to make the cake and we made this really simple yellow cake and put in the oven and fortunately, I don't know how to cook with charcoal so she had to do it and weep

14:39 Opt out the cake and it turned out wonderfully and she had such a great smile. She had such a great smile and she went home and I didn't and I thought okay and a story that was a nice little 30-minute moment of my life was the 23rd of December and the reason I know that is because the next day she came after dusk with her cousin, so she and she was smiling. She came all the way by herself from the house and limping with her bad leg and she brought a cousin who is not disabled.

15:12 And she says all looks meteorite mad at me. See I've made the cake but I did something a little different. I took one part with chocolate and one part without shocking iceworld it so she meant what she marble the cake and she was and she says and I taught my cousin and it was so neat because she

15:29 She took what I taught her and took another step by marbling the cake and then she also taught somebody so she shared you knows what I taught her. She's given to someone else to so that day was the 24th of December and it was after dusk. So as far as Kenya is concerned that was Christmas. So that was a fun little Christmas present to me and then I color it took the nice.

15:54 Appendix that story. I belong to that story. Is that she

15:58 Eyes again, she was the baby of the family and she would never hold down the store of their family and you know, any of the other kids I would see them managing the store and no button and never her even though she was of the AIDS that others could do it, but and I asked sometimes though. She's the baby. She's the youngest and then like 6 months later. I went across the street to the store one morning. I said, hey,

16:23 Where's your mom? She's not here. She and my father went to a funeral I said we'll who else is here. She was no one is just me so I don't take credit for that, but it is a nice little nice little addition to the story.

16:38 You had growing up you had some experiences with prejudice of folks with different cultures and when you went to Kenya.

16:49 You probably found that they were prejudiced is there as well?

16:54 Can you tell me about maybe some of the prejudices that you found there that that bothered you and as well, could you tell me of maybe some?

17:06 Produces that didn't have that you thought might be beneficial for folks here to learn.

17:14 Tigerweb in the in Memphis in the South I moved up north and was amazed at how many people make fun of my accent made fun of where I was from options about my education level, even though my grades blew them away and standardized tests and whatever when I moved and my mother is Japanese, so I think

17:43 Growing up

17:46 I learned to clear up my English even though maybe now you can't tell but I knew that how to speak to people who didn't speak English as their first language that proved I think helpful when I moved to Kenya.

18:03 People

18:06 I was amazed at how I okay. I was the only white person in my town.

18:10 In Kenya, I was amazed at how

18:16 Much attention. I got it's not like these people never saw white people. It's not like there wasn't a white person there before me. It's not like there aren't so there aren't tons of white people in Nairobi, but

18:28 I was accessible and that made me different outcome touch my hair they would follow me Singsong kids would follow me sing song in behind me. When I rode my bike. They would call a white person white person white person. They would stand on the sides of the path when I would Bike by and just sing song like it wasn't even the song kids were just seems so it was really interesting. That was another expectation that I

18:55 Or assumption that I didn't realize I made.

18:58 I assume that if I lived in the community people would treat me like a member of the community not as this traveling.

19:07 Strange thing to get excited about and they were never cruel. They were always happy or they never thought that was cruel pointing me out in the same song again, but I was amazed at how annoyed that made me who I was and I was a little disgusted with myself and how much that bother me, but it was a real Community I grew up or been in the US and this was very real very rule in Kenya and

19:36 But I did spend some time in rural communities in the US before that.

19:40 And I did spend time in urban centers in Africa as well. Which amazed me it how much?

19:48 What were the things that amaze me with how much the urban cultures resemble each other much more than I had realized cause Nairobi is much more Cosmopolitan than I realized. I will disappointed in that and then the rule communities.

20:05 I have a lot of the same Essex the u.s. Rural communities the Kenyan rural communities and Bob way and Rural communities tie rural communities. It's interesting how much those resemble each other in some ways more than they resemble their own Urban centers.

20:24 It sounds like a even though they're half a continent away or half a world away that the similarities and the differences between people are more or you're finding or more line towards.

20:37 Class or perhaps environment that they grow up in I do think that's true. People are people that's something I learned. I mean had you asked me before I moved to Africa sure. I would have said that people are people the Kenyan people the zimbabweans the peruvians the tie their all people. They're just like us but to actually live and experience that and to see that really personalized that experience for me made me really understand it and it much more of us, you know, how much more of it internal cellular level and I think that's encouraging.

21:17 Because

21:21 I like we're talking about this. I like to know that.

21:25 It's

21:27 LOL, I like that aspect of it that says that this is who you are is a large part of how and where you were raised as opposed to genetically who you are because that means that you can change it and you can try and send it and it doesn't mean that if it means that it's not fixed you have some control over over it and you're not just born to be in the ruling class. You're not just born to be a surf you have the ability to change that if you choose and if you choose to stay there then it's your choice and hopefully you are comfortable and happy with that choice.

22:07 But if you're not you can make some changes.

22:13 The fact that you ended up having to move in your childhood from one store environment to another probably help you realize the differences and the fact that you then move yourself into an entirely different.

22:30 Environment sounds like that solidified.

22:34 The feeling that you had about that that people are people the fact that you are able to come into these folks environment and their culture and partake in their culture while providing them a little bit of yours.

22:48 Did they give you any insight into?

22:52 How likely it would be for folks to realize that people are people and not become

23:00 Slaves to the prejudices of their limited life experiences

23:05 Did you see even in the rule communities these folks have never seen a man do go like a white person Hardly. Did you see that? Because they were exposed to them and had positive experiences that they were just as likely as any of us to open their minds to different cultures.

23:22 Canyon community

23:26 And I think that's true for love African countries. They are made up of numerous cultures there for an example Kenya. The people that I live with they spoke one language their neighbors of a different Community than the other.

23:44 Culture right next door the kikuyu. Zwier who I live with the Masai live next door who are everybody are quite famous as a culture. The Key C are not far away. The cam bar not far away is so people already in Kenya are aware of multiculturalism. America says, it's very Multicultural and it is in some ways.

24:05 And it's becoming in some ways more. So.

24:09 But I think in some ways in a lot of ways other countries are much more aware of the Canyons knew that they spoke their local language right next door 20 miles away. There's another local language they were where they sometimes learn that other local language or they use the national language to communicate. So they're already aware Americans don't have that they have different dialects, but it's still all the same language that Americans in the US and that is changing. But for the most part everyone is expected to speak English in the US my friends where I live in Kenya, they found themselves. They thought they were very uneducated because a lot of them couldn't finish finish even 8th grade much less High School were much less going to University. So they would call themselves uneducated but I strove to point out to them that no look you already speak three languages almost every tendon by virtue of being racing. Can you speak 3 languages their own language Swahili the national language and then English which is

25:09 Official language in the language of Commerce and basically of the world so it's

25:17 Again, very humbling as an American who was raised with one language and I was fairly lucky. I was almost raised with two with my mother speaking Japanese. I was at least aware of other languages, but for me to go to Kenya and

25:30 For the people who speak 345 languages to call themselves uneducated was just shocking and very humbling because at that point I didn't even have a good second language. You know now my good second language is Swahili, but it doesn't do me a lot of good here unless I bumped into East Africans and then they love it.

25:53 It's hard to imagine most for most Americans to to speak another language even resist even trying for me to sit here and think that I can grow up speaking three different languages is just me almost Beyond Comprehension for me, especially if you never if you didn't finish eighth grade, you know, I mean the Kenyans just by osmosis almost know several languages and it is an American it's hard to Fathom that these are local farmers is our sustenance farmers who just barely goodbye subsistence Farmers hit is apparently goodbye. And they speak two three four languages in smatterings of four or five others, you know, it's really

26:37 It's really different.

26:41 Are there some positive aspects of the culture here in America or yours personally that you felt like you brought to the folks in Kenya lasting?

26:53 Influences that you would have left with them simply by the virtue of you living among them and sharing ideas.

27:03 I don't I don't know, you know you again I went there thinking I was going to have all sorts of influence. I thought I was going to be all these changes that would take place because of what I brought necessarily because I'm that important but because the information and material that I was bringing in Sharing would be the science, but that that would be so beneficial to them and where they live but I didn't taken thousands of years of History. I didn't take that into consideration. I did go back two years ago 2004 for 8 months travel around Africa I needed to for me personally because I needed to I thought it was I needed to because I needed to go back and see how it's changed or mostly how it hasn't changed. But also I think it would end up very good for them to see that they weren't forgotten.

27:54 And I think they know they weren't forgotten. But again, they could really it's nice to have it acknowledged. So it was fun to go back and show up and have people not have any idea. I was coming night. They don't have email. They don't have electricity. They're still so they don't have email. I don't have cell phones really a lot of them don't.

28:14 So they didn't know I was coming for so it was fun to like walk up The Path and I could see them in one couple. I overheard the conversation man and wife when you very well and I could hear her speaking in kikuyu. I was like At first she said that who's that white person coming up and then like that's a small woman. That's it was really fun to be able to understand that conversation and just to see it was like watching their wheels and their brain turn and I can see every click and it was it just made me laugh, but they were so gracious. And so thankful and

28:54 They took great pains to point out the things that I helped them with and all. Yes, look these trees that you planted. I didn't plant those trees. I didn't even I just was a cheerleader when they were planting trees and collecting seeds and and they water them. They took care of them the whole eight ten years since I was since they were planted but it was nice they say, oh, yes now just bringing shade and now we have firewood and fuel it is a very good thing you did and that's very they're very gracious people. And so it was really neat to see is in the water tanks at the other one brought another Peace Corps volunteer help them get funding to build water tanks. I yes and that is making her life so much easier it is.

29:42 At at at 1 scale, but as an American.

29:47 An American might not think it was easier. They still have only run runoff rainwater runoff water collection. That's all they have for their water flows trees is still only have 50 of them and they don't provide fruits and they don't provide that much shade on compared equatorial Africa. They still don't have electricity. They still don't have running water. They still don't have a public transportation Within.

30:14 5 km you have to walk for 5 km and then wait for hours before the public transportation comes I don't have paved roads tarmac in the area, but our lives are so much easier. Our lives are so much better. Thank you. You did such a good thing. The reason why I laughed and news it

30:31 It wasn't at the same time. I knew it was you know.

30:36 What did the what did you tell the folks when you came back then unannounced what did you tell them is for what your reasons were for coming back and

30:46 Did you explain to them it was a very personal level as why you came and were they surprised that you would come back?

30:56 I had told them and I think every single Peace Corps volunteer promises. So I will come back. I will come back. I'll visit you I've read books where people said. Oh I promised I'd come back with info after 5 years and some did and some didn't I think all my friends?

31:14 Canyons that I lived with whom I lived with have an amazing ability to believe you and not believe you at the same time or maybe more accurately more accurately. It would be for me to say they're very generous about letting you not the very generous about understanding how circumstances change.

31:36 He'll say yes. He know I'm coming for that meeting and they full well mean it and they full well know they won't be there and then I want ya like friends Hamptons our friends from college. He would say, oh, yes. Well, you know, I invited her to come over and eat but I didn't mean it. I didn't ask for three times. I'm supposed to ask you three times before it's really serious.

32:00 But yeah canyons in some ways they did have some.

32:04 They're very gracious about letting you off the hook. So the fact that it was so long and then I did come back and I walked all the way out there. I took 3 days and spent two nights and did a loop to get to my community because I really wanted to get through there and I didn't have a bike that impress them and Amaze them and surprise them and yet I think in some ways, you know, they remembered is she said she come back.

32:29 Maybe we didn't really believe it. So we're very impressed. I see did

32:35 Do you think I understood the

32:37 The personal reasons behind why you came back or do they seem or you living living up to that promise?

32:48 Quit a job to more or less to do this.

32:52 And I was still unmarried and unattached and I think they I don't know. I wonder sometimes if they think I you know, that is a reason she can come back that but she cannot find husbands. I know they thought things like that why you married no, no. No, you still do not have any children, but I don't know if they

33:13 I wonder if they think if she got married she wouldn't be coming back because the two men who both served in my community community before me one who was there for two years and I took his house and his project and the other one who lived in the next Village over they both are married. They both have children. Neither of them have come back since that happened.

33:33 So I wonder how they also just sort of thought I was a little strange that I was so old without children so old without the man.

33:42 Start again. They even though I explained to them that that's not important and it's not crucial in American culture. And even though I told him that wasn't what I wanted to do, and I didn't want to have children. It still was 10 years later and it still was a surprise for them.

33:59 Have you noticed or did you notice on that trip back? You mentioned Nairobi being more of a cosmopolitan?

34:07 Urban culture. Have you noticed any

34:10 Insulted not from you, but from our society as a whole and with the Advent of the internet and cell phones. Have you noticed influences upon the urban culture there either positive or negative looking back? I'm very happy. I was able to go to Peace Corps when I did I think I caught the tail end of

34:33 Some sort of an old version and that is quickly rapidly slipping away now with internet and cell phones Urban Nairobi Nairobi. So Cosmopolitan under always has had a lot of international influence with UNIF and International Center for research and agriculture. These World Headquarters being based there, but now

34:59 It was when I was becoming very rich and very Western and it almost frightens me. I was scared about how completely discombobulated I was when I first moved back to Nairobi in 2004, I think and you know,

35:15 I don't begrudge them that I don't want to say. Oh, they shouldn't have that that's completely arrogant and unfair but at the same time there's something I miss about the Nairobi I knew before.

35:28 The people in my community where I lived they are slowly getting email access because they go to Nairobi. They get some cellphones but they have to take them somewhere and get them charge. They pull up the you know, we had two TVs but you had to have a car battery to charge it to run the TV. So the cell phones the same way you have to have a plug-in or you take it to the market with electricity and pay them to charge your cell phone.

35:49 So it is those influences are slowly reaching out into my community that I lived in into car. I

35:56 But not nearly like it's happening in Nairobi there for the Gap is almost it is is more dramatic. I think between the worldliness of Nairobi and then the

36:08 The rest of Kenya the worldliness of the large cities in Africa and probably other areas of the world and then the the rural other sections of their country.

36:22 Is is there anyone lasting?

36:27 Lesson that you learn from those experiences that you think would benefit others either in the states or in Kenya something that you learned that you feel like you can pass on.

36:40 That would benefit either culture.

36:45 I think it was very good as an American. I may have been a little more aware of different cultures than the average American strictly by virtue of having a mother who a parent to came from a different country. I'm not saying I'm a better person because I I naturally knew that I'm just saying and that was my experience. I think that

37:06 Was very I think it was very good for me to have that experience and it was incredibly good for me to go overseas and live in Peace Corps, especially the young person and really changes the way I look at things and the way I react to things the way I see the world. I think it's very important. I don't think a lot of Americans have that luxury in the ones who do don't quite take it going and traveling in Europe is going to be terrific but hanging out in Vienna is not quite the same as hang out in a rural part of

37:40 You know Argentina, it's not the same. I I and I don't say that. I know everything about different parts of the world are not even Kenya, but I do think that I learned a lot by having lived in another culture and I think it really helps really colors the way I look at the world and I think it really helps me be a better person.

38:02 Did it the willingness to be exposed to different cultures such as that sounds like that would be when was beneficial things for us as Americans to understand the world around us. Is that something you would you would strive to to explain to people or try to tell them I'll do it.

38:26 I think that's all. Thanks. Thanks.