Stella Hager and Leena Frace

00:00 My Totodile Nikki

00:07 Sneeze, but I'm Lena frase. I am 40 years old and today is February 29th 2008. I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm speaking with my mother Stella.

00:23 And I'm Stella Hagar and I'm 65 years old and today is February 29th 2008 and I am in Charlotte, North Carolina and I'm speaking with my daughter Lena.

00:36 Soham front of the things

00:40 I knew this would just be a big bombs. I should just because we're that type of people I guess. I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about your childhood and then probably go into my childhood in your children.

00:55 What's your earliest memory?

00:58 Maybe you can I was like

01:02 545 we lived on a dairy and Paul and Paul and I would play all over cartoon with a little too little and but we would get to go to the dairy and see Grandpa milking the cows and he's always she was away, but we had cats because they would keep the mice away from the seed in there in the storage room and stuff like that. So yeah, that was a fun time. It was a scary time to because the calf man would come to pick up dead calves. And so that was my grandma and grandpa's way of controlling the cast member come. He's the nicest man. I guess I really never met him. But when he come we run in the house like yeah exactly exactly.

02:02 Tubing good, you know around the dairy and stuff, but the other thing that I remember most of all was fine now Corky and Paul being little took a tractor apart. There was an old tractor abandoned on the side of the near a field and they started undoing screws and bolts and the bus that ran out of the dairy told Grandpa and Grandpa. Was it a working tractor. They started taking it apart.

02:41 And then the man came over until Grandpa and Grandpa got really upset at the boys and then we had to laugh about it because how were they going to put it back together of the parts they had taken off but they were little they weren't, you know, I can still remember Corky being so little and Paul, you know, that was a that was a memory will never forget never 3, I've never did like race cars when they were teenagers.

03:19 So how would you know what were you like as a little girl where you happy where you yeah, we were very happy because after we moved away from guy from our grandma my grandmother and granddaughter had their Grandpa's family after we moved away from them life got better for Grandpa because they insisted grandma was wasn't Catholic Grandpa was and and they were there was a whole battle. Yeah, and so once we moved away and went to live on one of the dairies life got better for them and grandma raised us in the Christian Church of the Nazarene church. And so we went to church and enjoyed, you know so much just so much that she was able to teach us and in her own simple way. She

04:19 Gave us a good life and as well as giving it to Grandpa to yeah, because she was really good to he was really different than yet. He knew yes family totally different in a totally different from his family. So it was it was good. It was good. I remember well all the happiness that we shared and the fun we had

04:45 The surprise at Christmas time because it was we were very poor, you know and for us to get presents under the tree with my God that treat of a lifetime whether it was

04:59 Just an apple or an orange or you know, any little toy that came along with it. Oh my goodness. We were quite happy Grandpa would we would go to church and at Christmas time? They always gave a little bag to the children. So we are we always went to church at Christmas time to get out. Don't forget to bring me so funny and then it became a big joke and then became a joke, you know, we're going to church dad's, you know will bring a box of a bag of candy grandpa said. Oh, yeah, he was a character. Who is the who is the biggest influence in in your life? Was it one of your parents or

05:59 I don't know. I think it was my mom, you know because she was so.

06:08 I remember her suffering and struggling a lot in her, you know in her life, but yet she kept calling and I think that's what gives me the strength, you know watching her because she's she did she did struggle a lot and he suffered a lot. He had a lot of

06:30 Adversity to get over because of Grandpa not being of the same face, you know, it was hard on her weird to think about it cuz why is that such a big deal? I mean what was done so differently will basically that he he would allow us to go to church and everything. You know, he never said he never stopped us and you never sent me that so weird. It's like who's to allow or disallow? Well, you would be surprised. I mean to the point that we moved away from his parents. There was a lot of anger and lot of you know because we were not kept in the family was not fully Catholic so that brought a lot of of harshness to Grandma and then her family turned her away because she married a cat, you know, so she was already away from them, you know.

07:30 So as as she tried as I say she kept going and going she kept trying to bring her family in you know, and go see her mother and go see her sister is her sisters. Some of her sisters were very loyal to her others were very cruel to her her brother some of her brothers now Grandma comes from a huge family 16 in the family. So there were some that were really loyal to her and then others that were treated her badly and treated Grandpa badly to the point that one of them said if he comes here, I'll shoot him with a shotgun cuz it was legal to carry guns on the farm then.

08:11 And so she had a lot of adversity to get over and and keep them all safe, you know and hoping to see some of them cuz she missed her her brothers and sisters, you know, can you imagine 16 in a family and Grandpa was in World War? Were you do you have any memories of him being gone and who helped Grandma van? Is that why you were with his family one of her sisters took her in because we were just basically left penniless and without anything. So one of her sisters took her in auntie. I think it was her oldest sister.

08:58 It took her in she didn't have any any children and she helped Uncle Henry and then you see they took her in and they helped her and helped us. I remember well Grandma Solis then came in a little bit because grandma was getting sickly and I remember her taking me and that's when she taught me Spanish completely. You know, she just made sure that I knew Spanish and she'd make me close out of flour sacks and take me to church the Catholic church and you know, it is a different things that I remember, you know, but I would want to see my brothers.

09:58 You know, Helen wasn't born yet and Grandpa came home from the from the Navy by.

10:08 Yeah, she she was my influence. There is no doubt that she kept going and fighting and going in and yet she loves her family. You know, she just loved every one of them.

10:22 That have pretty pretty interesting this stories that I kind of like remembering don't remember cuz I know I remember visiting Grandma's parents and I remember Grandpa's father, but I guess his mother was already oddness of spookiness and I think half of it was because we didn't speak Spanish. So when before you went with great grandma, were you guys speaking mainly English together that Facebook Spanish all the time, but grandpa said if these kids are going to start school here, they have to know English and so they spoke English to us all the time and for that very reason that he didn't want us to not be able to follow through in school. And what happened. Did you enjoy School?

11:19 I love school. Yeah. Yeah, I love school through high school, but could not do it. They went a year-and-a-half and I think it was my course. I had taken accounting and that I went to work for borba find in their office with their and that was an interesting thing because it was mostly Mexicans. So I knew you know, I could speak with him and so on and yeah, no not local. They would come in as a crew and pick potato for boar behind but it was sad because then sometimes I would see that they would call the immigration.

12:16 Under crew. I remember this so they wouldn't have to pay him. They wouldn't have to pay it hurt a lot. Anyway, you could have done anything. I should have done something, you know, but being 18 or whatever not really knowing anything of the world. I used to keep your job. Yeah. Yeah a dollar twenty-five an hour.

12:52 I got I had a question about that though. Just kind of I guess bring you that.

12:57 2 today and all of this BS about immigration and whatnot. What what do you think that they should do just so you know other than just follow through with the laws that they do have but the people that are here, I think it's rude that they should

13:21 Hit on them the way they do, you know because seeing how rich borba got on these people picking his potatoes and the government buying them. You know, I mean, come on. Yes, come on, and you can't tell me that it isn't the same today it and I don't think anything has really changed, you know, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, you know, if you honestly think that there would be people to do those jobs if it wasn't for the people sew-in destitute in desperation because it's hard work and I wasn't even people back then. I know it was hard work. Yeah. I have a funny story about that.

14:07 I work for Barbra the office. Okay, so I was always clean but my brothers worked in the field with some of these people or at the warehouse itself and one time when they call them aggression. They took one of my brothers they take Paul really cuz he would get dark and they grabbed him up and he had to fight his way, you know about knowing that he spoke English and everything. They still wouldn't believe him but then Grandpa got involved and Grandma how old is she? I mean weather just like add a note in the area and the potatoes and she jumped off that belt then she come running and we laughed about that.

15:07 I'm sure you know later after the after the scare, you know how immigration?

15:20 I could have been let me put it that way or like us we always had that theory maybe I could have been but there wasn't as as that are there wasn't that much discipline Grandma tried Grandpa tried, you know, and I would remember where I was stuffing my homework underneath the couch. And yeah, and there it stayed. Yeah, so I could have been a good student and I wish I would have bet that would have should have took of school or and I think I did pretty good considering I think for the

16:13 Next question will probably beat us into

16:16 Some more of my life and you're having children, but how has your life differed? Then? You've imagined that it would be like

16:31 I guess most people do and expect to have somebody help me with my children, you know, but it didn't work out that way and at that time all I could think of was to keep my children with me wherever I was that was home.

16:54 And I was very fortunate that I had Grandma and Grandpa and Yaya to help me and every day that I leave to work. I knew that I had to leave you.

17:09 And I just prayed and I just prayed and it was every day that I came home. It was a struggle because there was so much to do and by myself basically but yet I knew that you were all home. We all had we had dinner together where you were all home where there was TV dinners or whatever. Thank God for TV dinners at that time. I know and you know, I just knowing that we were all together was was quite a comfort there was quite a comfort to me and I'm still together.

17:57 And keep going forward and we did we had a lot of fun. We had, you know, some exciting times. We had some down times we had some but we kept going forward and we made it. I think we made it obvious. Yeah, but back that you live with will and I and take care of our children during the day and see me struggle to leave every morning cuz I want to be with my baby. Yes. It is hard work through my day and fortunately I get through it without.

18:47 You know anything but there's times that I think that I know that you probably don't feel well and stuff and know that you don't say anything and I often wonder why you no like why you just mentioned to me that

19:03 You know that you're having a harder time than other.

19:07 I know you missed push through it, but still keep going. I don't feel good or it's my age. It's my it's my thing where you don't have to go through anything like that know most of the time it's not anything that once I get started I can't.

19:37 Can't keep going through, you know, if I were to give into it, I think then I'd be sick and that's what I have always felt. If you give into something then you know you fall and you know, I'm kind of a mind over matter how exactly you are still kind of stuck at 50th, and I sometimes wonder like who is this old days that I go? Oh my God. I don't know if I can get out of

20:20 No, that's that's very true. That's very true. I look at myself and go did I get to Old you know, and yeah, thank God I can keep going and I'm going to keep going till I can't anymore and fortunately things would get easier and all of our lives. So we think I know you can't predict the future but then again difference in adventure for us and the kids and everything so

20:52 I know you probably never planned on Surviving two of your three children and you want to talk about the boys a little bit. They both died of pretty social diseases and it's their own choosing and yes or no case was bad timing nowadays people live with HIV and AIDS for a long time. I know yeah, he was amongst one of the first to go, you know, when a month amongst many many many boys have died.

21:26 As he said to me, you know before he died he had no regrets.

21:34 He was gay and he lived a very interesting life and I was basically just there to help and support and at the end I was there to help him and support him.

21:51 Who is dying and that's all we can do, you know each other I said that he learned a lot from us. What would I look as contribution?

22:14 He always said to me.

22:17 I get so angry at people that get mad at their caregivers.

22:23 And it was interesting because he was always so kind and loving.

22:30 Right to the end, you know and I think that's probably what I learn the most another another way of going keep going just keep going and he died very peacefully which I'm very grateful for because you say son. Just fight death and he understood and accepted the fact that he lived a short life and his his thing was I can only regret the fact that I'm not see some of this advancement has he won he knew a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

23:15 He says I just regret that but he my my thing is that he took so much with him, you know, and that that to me was painful that he had so much to give and he took it all with him. I need to make people happy and you made people around him. You know, I always appreciated that, you know, they made us laugh and he made it nice and Jason would keep me in stitches with his stories with and they were Tall Tales. He died of alcoholism that was

24:06 So it's sad to me to see my son fell apart like that.

24:17 At the end know it wasn't controllable bike that the beginning had.

24:23 I mean, I I keep telling myself had I realized that you know, nothing to do with it, but I couldn't get him up the side of the head or I could have said something but

24:48 I was grateful for his his love and his and the fact that he gave himself the time to go back to the church, you know, however, however, I don't know what the motivation yeah, I know I know but he searched right there at the end. He was in search of some peace and I think he found it. I really do. I think you found it in church and what he was able to renew not that he didn't know it like you told me Mom. I read the Bible out loud reading the Bible and living the Bible are two different things. But anyway, but you know,

25:35 But he was he was good in the fact that he was able to be forgiving and loving and right at the end and it's sad that it has to be that way. You know, it's really sad. It hurt me a lot of their deaths were so contrasting and a sense of today was peaceful. And Jason was quite violent, you know, just in a procedure or whatever.

26:04 How how do you look on that in a sense of?

26:10 I guess karma or

26:14 What they brought it on themselves, or I think it's all in.

26:20 That piece they've given themselves within their own Hearts, you know, and Jason couldn't find peace for whatever reason and there was more to it and he tried to tell me and I

26:34 Wasn't strong enough to accept any of what she was going to say, you know, and so it was now I don't know. I don't know if I would have wanted to know why he was such an alcoholic but there was a reason there was a reason and he tried to tell me one time that he was at the Houston. I just literally curled up in a ball and could not finish let him finish and and he just broke down in tears and I laid him down and let him cry, you know, and just but he cried so violently that hurt me too, but maybe that was a way of just letting something out, you know that I couldn't accept what he was going to say. So I curl up in a ball but he starts crying and just

27:33 Cry so hard and I just comforted him and you know, that was the last time he was at the house and then he he wouldn't he wouldn't come over anymore after that. He wasn't well enough to come over.

27:58 That there's humor in everything no matter what, you know, you could be dying and he could figure out a way to be funny. You know, he could figure out a way to tell me a story. That would make me laugh and when I pick him up for church or something, he's always be ready. You know, he's always having this messed. He was able to give me that that I could laugh at some of the stuff that he would tell me and I'm going to chase, you know, whether it was true or not. I don't know but whether it was the his way of

28:40 Controlling himself, you know, I don't know. I don't know but he gave me just the fact that laugh about things because everything else is too hard you just laugh and I loved I loved the mood so much and I miss I miss him so much.

29:06 Yeah, me too.

29:10 Tap your things this child of yours. So I made it to 40 mile Stone while I feel old to I have two children under two, but what's up, one of your favorite memories about me.

29:31 There's everything is amazing about you. Especially that you loved her father so much and I know when you were little girl you were Daddy's girl you were that is girl and you came in the fact that

29:50 There isn't anything that can't not be done, right? Okay, let's get it done. But let's get it done, right?

30:02 Your words for me are quite sharp because they stay with me and I like that I like that I can depend on you and I know nobody's no need to mince words. No, no, and I just know that you know that when you're going to get it done it's going to be done. Right and you don't know how I appreciate that whether it's my checking account or whether it's my shopping or whether it's my you know, my medicines are weather.

30:36 I just know that if I give it to you will be done. Right and I can depend on that as as yet again, you've not only giving it to me give it to her that's a big mess in this whole conversation. And then we're coming to know how much I love her a note look at her as a mother as well. I know that you two are so close yet. She's my only sister and

31:10 Yeah, when you were little we fight like cats and dogs, and she learned to me.

31:23 She learned to never judge me allowed me to be who I am as I allowed her to be who she is and you know, not that we don't advise each other on you couldn't do this, but

31:47 Yeah, I think yeah, she's special and she always will be no. She always there to support me and help me in just just listen sometimes is all she needs to do. You know, she's another very strong woman has a lot of strength probably unrecognized. Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't feel that she's strong, but she is because she gives me great strength, you know.

32:17 Just her accomplishments that she doesn't even know that we're not going to get into a survival story. I would be awesome to get her in this business and talk to her. No so many things yet and yet she has so many fears. That's all thank you. I just wish I could say I don't know what made us different but give her the woman. I think she is but she doesn't even realize I left the package that up and give it to her so she could use it.

33:15 Sonny and will

33:19 Are deer will I will I love will I always will great guy. I don't know how he puts up with you but he does and he loves you a lot o my God, you could see it and the way he loves those children, but he's so strong and I don't I worry about him because he is so give me energy and all his oh my goodness, you know and I worried about that too with his Empire Building. Yeah. Yeah, but

33:56 He's been he's been a great inspiration and watching him with you and the children and and I say he's practically one of your kids since he's been around since he was 15. Was he taught you?

34:12 Indoorance if anything but his own yeah well to have come so far on his own and I know to come now and bitter angrier all the stuff you hear people blame on a bad childhood and stuff and he doesn't have any of it.

34:42 So it's ya know. I love him dearly and I appreciate him so much and I do like to say anything to Laird and Scarlett. I love them dearly. Oh my goodness.

34:59 Lyrics my grandson and Scarlett is my granddaughter as I'm so proud to say that I love him so much.

35:20 The words to me that I'm I think I might start writing again. Oh good. Yeah because

35:29 As I'm sitting with Scarlett.

35:32 There's there's silence in her in her mumbles, you know, and I don't know what she saying. It's a silence to me, but she must be talking as Laird and I make up these stories with him and stuff, but it's still a silent, but I don't know and that came to me this morning and I thought I got to start writing again and they deserve your poetry cuz it's just amazing to watch him and I can make up stories and he I don't know what he's thinking or if he understands me things and he'll answer me and he'll talk to me and you and I'll keep going with my story and he

36:32 Talk to me. I'm going okay and Scarlett woke up this morning and I was holding her and she starts talking and she just stopped and started again, and I'm not going so you tell me what you dreamed about Jose here. They are a year apart by bet you they start talking at the same time doesn't kill you. Both sides to have the same verbal Skills Practice to say. Yeah my excitement with Scarlett and Laird is what the first words are going to be. I know if it's your favorite word, then they got to start. I know I can hardly wait I can hardly wait.

37:28 I like our family. I like that you're with us and

37:33 I do love you so much Mom. I love you, man. Every minute and everything that you guys have given me I appreciate like I say I have nothing I want nothing but I have everything and being with those babies and you and watching your strength and strength that's coming with Will and it's so amazing and I appreciate everything you've given me because I have learned a lot from you guys. You know, I feel like I grew up with you guys and your brother send you

38:12 I appreciate that very much.