Dustin "Dusty" Schroeder and Katherine "Kathy" Vega

00:04 Hi, I'm Dusty Schroeder. I'm 34 today is December 14th page you fall meeting New Orleans and I am the research advisor for Kathy. Who's my partner?

00:27 Hi, my name is Kathy Vega. I am 28 years old today is December 14th of the Year 2017 and we are at the hu conference in New Orleans. I am a student research assistant to Dusty.

00:48 Dusty tell me about how we first met and what your first memory or impression of me lies program, which is a program Stanford does for students from other universities. I think dominantly Foo come from backgrounds with its first gen gender underrepresented groups in the geosciences. And so I just knew Professor. I was like a year year and I guess you and 1/2 in I got this email. That was like, oh, do you have to put together a job description for potential students for two programs one that was for Stanford students one. That was his program.

01:33 I'm so I wrote the advertisement it so I forgot about it. And then I was contacted by Lupe who runs the search program and she was like a man interviewed me about like exactly what I needed into dancing exactly. What background is incredibly thorough like my own grad students. I don't think I've had it since you went and I guess there's a whole separate process on that that is okay to me where she talked to a bunch of other people and then and then eventually came to me with that a subset of people who had I guess pick my lab and she's on my BFS. I don't know. I guess I giving me time to talk to you or were you interviewed or what why we they have the list of projects and we listen top three and yours was my Top Choice. The other was a another professor doing applied.

02:33 Physics type stuff with seismology and yeah, and then I got interviewed and I'm asked why I want to work in your lab and

02:46 And that was pretty much the entirety of it.

02:53 Yeah, of course. So my degrees in engineering physics and I was looking for mostly actually astrophysics internships for the summer. But then I saw the Stanford program. I thought it was interesting and I saw that you combined Earth Sciences with planetary science from an engineering background and I thought well that's amazing. That's a really great way to like have Purpose with your science, but also still explore and I thought actually I got another offer it was an astrophysics. It was in Washington and it was closed between the two but I was excited to have the opportunity to do something more applied. And I also in that program. We didn't know who our advisor research group would be and after interviewing with you and learning about your background. I thought it was really inspiring and

03:49 It's a lot more comforting for me as a first-generation student as an older student to work with people that might have that perspective and can offer advice song the way things interesting with us. One of the reasons. I wanted to talk to you and see you know, we're both freshmen college students and that's certainly something that stood at both about your application that in a search program in general. Do you know it is

04:19 And you're right. I do bridge or science in spaceland. What is interesting when you know, you're going through this transition of social classes and you know educational norms and things like that that we're both were attracted to space science, which is profoundly impractical.

04:36 Why do you have any idea why that is released for you. I have thought about that I guess.

04:49 Because from a young age, you know, I grew up in Lancaster a very not diverse like small-town and

05:00 Having higher grades doing well always kind of gave me a sense of trailblazing and it made me stronger in a lot of ways. So then getting to this point maybe it's an amplified sense of confidence in my abilities that well. I think I can do it. I can explore that. I can figure that out. So I should

05:27 Do you get student always liked all the way from like kindergarten like straight A's type of person. I told my mom I was hyperactive and she was like, well, what does that mean? He said well, we have medication. She said no way and then I was tested for the gifted program and I was placed into those classes in once I was in that I got into less trouble in school and I had teachers I just gave me extra work and from there. Yeah, I love school. I was an only child for 10 years. So just being overly involved in school helped me stay engaged and when I was in Middle School, I did dream of like being an astronaut more just and or president I was there and that was the

06:27 Way through when I was in high school, I applied to Ivy Leagues and I didn't get into them but I got into Berkeley and I figure it out. Okay. Well, that's a good second option. And yeah, but that's that's a real difference with us. Yeah. I was really bad.

06:50 For me to my dad was an appliance repairman most of my childhood he then went on to work for so I can maintenance mechanic in pharmaceutical company. And now he works in a factory that makes his bags of peanuts leave it on airplanes and he made the shop in my my basement and outside of Cleveland. And I mean, I grew up in the shop. He was incredibly talented creative person at building things, you know inside I learned

07:20 I learned how machines work from a very young age. I went and was like helping him repair appliances from like I don't know for 5, I would like to very building things in the basement of weld, really young like no one in my family went to college. No one. I knew pretty much you know, what there's a couple exceptions going to cost. You only know what like deep profession where I let me call Jaron and so I just didn't think school was very important and I didn't like it. I didn't like being told what to do. And so I just like really bad grades. So I grew up in this

08:04 Ms. Suburb outside of Cleveland that when my parents graduated it was just like Triumph of like the industrial Rust Belt vocational things. They did these vocational programs when they graduate high school Cleveland was still in the top 10 and I think in terms of population and economy and things and they they did this had the biggest mall in the US in Sudbury, right when they graduated and it went from that to sort of vocational Paradise of the Midwest. No way to when we left, you know that the schools

08:46 Add increases in crime, you know, my parents had up sending me to this this Catholic school instead of the public schools for early in their Lane school and it was just like this archetypical Midwestern white flight situation where it's actually the only city where I grew up until 7:50 only city with worst ratios between the police force in the population in Ferguson Ferguson's number to try and so I was there and I didn't like school but my cousin moved 31 first cousins and one of my cousin moved to this like really good recently ranked the best public school districts in United States school and he was doing much like you all this cool picture project stuff and I was like, I hope this does not sound like the score experience. I'm having we really need to move and so my parents are really heroic in that they they found one of the most affordable houses in this really good school district and I moved but still even from

09:46 I'd like you to my freshman year in high school. I was still getting like a 2.6 GPA I barely was getting a c minus in Algebra 2 but I was competing in the science competitions that year. I won my first national championship in astronomy while barely getting a c house were too and I was I would go to the machine shop at my dad's work after school to build these these cars that you can pay it any attention during events and I was trying to figure out a very serious about winning this and so I went into my Algebra 2 teacher. I need to know how to take the derivative of parametric functions like watching me like you do. Do you are you are very kind of clothes do not passing this class me. How do you even know what that is? And I'm like, well I need to use this to make like a better better car. You don't I realize school at a point and so for me that along with the interrelated with that that's going to make me

10:46 Care about learning a my grades jumped over if my CTS when it's still mostly for me. I was doing the science competition and mostly just text me for me. I got interested in astronomy initially out of pure competitiveness. Sauna Steam and we go to these natural competition thought I was I don't know like how do I sometimes described me as a science Jack and I hit you up. Maybe if I was more athletic person. I would have been it an actual dock but I wanted us to win we are bad in its the astronomy events. I was like, whatever I'll learn it. I'll do it. You know, I'm at the point. I was mostly just building stuff So eventually I won the national championship and I was in the Cleveland Astronomical Society is like the only person under 60

11:36 And they're super encouraging I came back and they made me wear my metal and this guy came from Case Western Reserve University and he gave a talk and I have all these questions cuz I was like an opinion a little kid and he he's like, oh, okay. What are you doing for the summer of 69 think the time and going to lifeguard and he's like well, why don't you come to work on my lap in Cleveland? I lose you look for dark matter. And so I went home. I told my parents I was like I need dad's car so that I can drive into the city.

12:16 And quit my pain like our job to look for invisible matter physics professor and and and to my mom's credit. She's like getting told me that you forgive him motorcycle. Give me your car. So I went downtown and I worked in this lab and I've learned that like

12:40 Professor was a thing that they these people who got paid to think shut up and and the sky Dan, you know who I worked with took on this with this really cheap rental. I called him all throughout College my physics dad would like, you know, I would be trying to take you know courses or make decisions and and I needed someone to call so I could call him up and be like, hey, you know if I switch from engineering physics or something, is it going to ruin my life? And so he was one of us like a you know, what school, you know college and

13:19 Picture of a

13:20 Okay. Yeah, so so so Dan interesting when this all comes back around 2 to our relationship as well in that Dan was in his career at case at the same stage. I'm at now. He was a new professor and I was some in this case random high school kid. And yeah, he looks for Dark Matter his group had lots of things in common with my own group to get the theory and science also built things. I was around making stuff helping grad students, you know do experiments. Remember I like to find a drawer and Lead tillich protect radioactive stuff, but it was a great actor stuff. We have Harvest from like a smoke detector still like nothing was like really serious. And so yes, we you know, so the first row nightlife was when he was giving me advice and college some of which I didn't take, you know cookie.

14:16 He was like, hey, maybe you could study Physics, which I think you know, I was interested in and I I felt as a Christian Student that I had to do something more vocational that I could provide for myself, you know also and so I didn't bring it to a degree in engineering physics in the end and I he wanted me to go to some universities that didn't have a credit engineering programs, which I thought was too difficult person. I thought I needed the vocational training as well but was interesting is years later. I stayed in touch with him. And when I finish my Ph.D. I acknowledge Him and in the knowledge man tonight call tonight to tell him. Hey, you know, I got a PhD and he's like, oh, I know, you know, I moved from case to Stanford. And so actually he have been poached by Stanford at this to slac National accelerator laboratory to an interview to Stanford. I showed up music am interviewing for the position then I got it and

15:16 He now lives like a block away from me. And and when I move there, you know, I went out to breakfast with him in my wife and I saw him the story and his wife and he had no idea that he must have known at the time. Long forgotten that I was his first gen could I talked I told the story just like I'm telling now in his wife is a quiet but it was great and you know it like these these small sets of things this competition him giving me this job thing. I'd like totally altered the course of my life like and so for me, it was really cool, you know in the search bar going to to to be able to both pay that forward and and also I do know I at least for me

16:05 I find that.

16:08 I mean I could pick anyone with advising as a part of the value of diversity is that you can you can be a mentor to people going through some other things as you and even though, you know, we can provide different geographical places. I think like the ark and some of the concerns are similar and I feel like I can't even know what to do. I I've definitely recognized that when I come to you for advice you kind of say what I'm hoping you'll say and so then it feels like it's good advice.

16:45 That's great still. I remember you mentioning that before so you went from physics to geological Sciences. How did that happen? Yeah, you know, so.

17:00 I I went to undergrad in this little eyes College in Pennsylvania where a lot of people were from wealthy families. So I sometimes say that like, I studied abroad in East Coast Elite for undergrad and learned a lot from that that was really valuable and we are in the middle of nowhere which made feel like socioeconomic transitional easier cuz like, you know, if you've been in a city you can like feel the wealth disparity, but like what was I'm going to do like buy some cows like it really it helped a lot but

17:35 Where was I going with this?

17:38 How was your question again?

17:42 Oh, yeah, okay. Okay. So it was a little high school though. So I had you know The Rice School experience. I took a bunch of humanity Surplus. We can't classes. I studied abroad in the Middle East. I like it enough developed.

17:59 Understanding for other cultures and so, you know, I had to hit this point, you know in a way it does kind of relate.

18:09 Back to the astronomy thing in a way because I was developing all these values I cared about people I care about what was happening in the world. But like my first love was astronomy. I really I went to school thing. I wanted to do space telescopes and I did a summer internship summer after my sophomore year. I'm at the center for astrophysics at Harvard. I really great mentor I learned a lot from but I can get the time. I did not recognize the importance of mentorship with people who could understand my situation is also the first time I've lived that far away from home and

18:45 I just felt disconnected from the type of people their motivations seem different that didn't seem like you're talkin about this idea of like this Quest. I think that I really identify with that about that like my academic quest in like my social class transition very tied up and like the way I talk about it and think and feel about it. I like that and I didn't have that so I left

19:06 That summer and I just like fire destroy. Enemy just doesn't have the purpose I was looking for when I was big rambling thing Clooney studying abroad including I get some biomedical research one Samurai.

19:19 And then might my senior thesis was under God. I was trying to work on land my detection which is a much harder problem with radar then quickly ology but profoundly difficult and also like in a really discouraging cuz it's so much cheaper to lay a landline then remove it and and and I I became convinced to my face is too slight doing like a radar design that like ruggedized like feeling farm equipment out of like tank material is much better way blowing it up much better way to get rid of landmines then and radar but I called as part of that my eventual PhD advisor. I'm who is actually also a first gen for advice cuz he shot radar through the grounds for ice from airplanes and I was like a could we do this from airplanes? And he was like that basically what I just said, that's a really hard problem. We done some work on it, but he told me and I was moving to Austin anyway for other.

20:19 Are there reasons and he was in Austin so I work for a Semiconductor Company in Austin for a year, and he was like, you know for a person who's into both physics and Engineering who likes Radars you like since she level is also a compelling important problem. What it what do you think about that initially? I thought I was going to do a masters with him and then maybe go into some more policy-related thing before I

20:45 So did you know if I start dating my wife who does policy profession I realize what it was and then I be for play suited to it. And so, you know, I found again that's like real research connection with him. He was a really good Mentor for me in this way and his Heap really bridged instrumentation and and Science. And so yeah, so we start at 2, so that's why it's what you do if that's when I started my PhD in geophysics science class in 7th grade, and then I'll send I was doing that and you know, I tried to go back to Union in this run anything right now. I work in a space missions. I work on the science team for the mission to Europa by JPL. I helped design the radar collaborate on the European Mission Ganymede on this moon mission.

21:37 But when Don might my PC advisor first brought up cuz he was the guy at the radar on night on the road commission. He was like Hey, you know, I know you like you had these astronomy Awards. I still from the moment. I graduated high school kept running that the high school strongman competition for fruit for the thing that that I competed in a service in my life. And so he's a keep you all. This is why don't you just do the Europa mission Isaac? No way like space and I we had this, you know, it's my first love it was super intense and we had this like break up and like we can't be friends. Like I like I didn't look at the stars for years like I should wait like you knows to this to Fresh we like yeah, we just couldn't be friends and eventually he wore me down. And and now I mean as you experience like it's actually a significant fraction of our group and I think you know, the fact that I can do both are science and space science labs me to sort of do something I value and turn

22:37 Of impact on people and but and but still, you know kind of ReDiscover the fact that I like to try to me first bacon facts as I was hearing you talk. So in elementary I was getting in trouble and I was switched from three different teachers before I landed with one that could really kind of like understand me and it wasn't until I was much older recently that I went to visit her. I found out she was an engineer by trade originally and she worked as an engineer at JPL. That's where she met her husband, but then they moved to Lancaster they were working out of NASA out there and when they got married she was brought into a meeting where they told her. Well honey. Her name was funny that she was Texas and they told her congratulations, but now we're going to cut your pay in half since you have a primer.

23:37 Breadwinner yeah, and she's like what the heck no way you like. I'm still working 8 to 5 and do all doing all of the same work and they said yeah, but this is policy and she said kind of like you can shove your policy. I'm leaving but then it became really hard for her to find another job. They kind of like blocked her out. So that's how she got into teaching and when I was in elementary, she realized I liked math and I was curious so I did differently NASA projects when I was in like 4th grade and third grade and to this day I Chi visit her because had she not been able to direct that. I don't know if I would have had that guidance to focus that energy and after that it really became a thing of wanting to prove people wrong. My mother was a teen mom single mom actually just met my biological father two years ago.

24:37 And I wanted to not do what everyone expected me to do, which was the same trajectory and ever since that that's that's been a Thing If a kitty cat sound like this person was really important. Can you just misses Ryerson is a very Lively individual. She's a tall strong woman. She had short curly hair and she loved celebrating. They handle and Mexican culture. I was in a bilingual class and would get pulled out for the gate programs, but she loved having me in there because she thought it was really important for Latino students to embrace their identity as Latinos. I'm not feel like I was stood in our school and we had a classroom that was in a bad quarter and she always fought for us to get resources.

25:37 She took us to a field trip to Sacramento in fourth grade and she had to fight through a lot of a bureaucracy to do that because the bilingual class just didn't go on field trips of that song and she she's amazing a even to this day. I go and visit her and she says well, you know, we have our diabetes but we like our cookies. So we have these sugar-free cookies and I will sit and have sugar free cookies.

26:08 This is very sudden. Okay, so see you applied to this program. Yes. You were like guys who like space curious looking through radar records that were recorded in the 60s that are like, you know, so this is what I do. So I you know, I love these radar records, but as someone who didn't who choose not dedicating their life to ice-penetrating radar yet. You know, what? What did you think when you realize what you actually would be doing?

26:47 At first I was really interested when you handed me the manual and I saw all of the technical aspects to I thought well, I like it's amazing. What humans can create and build When I Survey looking at the radar grams. I also haven't taken any earth science since I was a kid. I thought what is this either just squiggles and then I realize the squiggle is supposed to be at Lake. I like says who once I started reading the literature and getting a better sense of how these squiggles are validated and models are go into it. It became more interesting and it I felt like like an Explorer able to discover this new world below the Antarctic ice sheet and it's it's been great. I think some days with that work are

27:42 More exciting than others. It can be really frustrating. I remember when I first wanted to match an image. I think I told you I couldn't figure it out and it was Haunting me so much that I was having nightmares about where this image could be until I finally had a dream where I was sitting with my grandmother and she was cooking and she said well, why don't you just look at it differently and I think I told you this and you said well you could try to change the sizing and it clicked and ever since then we've been able to find lots of really interesting things. And so I think it's fascinating the technology behind it. The instrumentation is my favorite part, but I think it's really neat to be able to find these lines like the grounding line and the channels that moment were

28:38 You see something that you know is important it is the best thing for me if there's a ball Kathy. I now work on ice-penetrating radar. It should take measurements vertically through the ice sheet until they look like little slices to retake the black and white. They look like you're familiar with like we can make sure you do look like that and

29:13 Modern observations are recorded digitally. It's what our whole group does mostly we build some of these radar to analyze the data we do with fresh sheets and icy moons, but the earliest stuff was recorded on optical film based on in the 60s and 70s. I'm going to a working on this project where were scanning that film for people to be able to use it. And you know, I think for me when I started it I wanted to use it and it was hard cuz it was in reels of film in Cambridge and we had to get this film scanner and scan it and I was a whole separate fun adventure but you know, once we recorded it and started analyzing and I think one of the things I've been struck with again to technical peace at this was as you know, just after World War II there was a lot of expertise and Radars in both running. This is a collaboration between the US and Denmark in the UK.

30:05 All places that were doing radar stuff during World War II it was tracking me how elegantly designed they were. They were like how you know people who had to record this information on film before GPS is now. So much, right that's so much that the day that is so close and quality to what we do now is so much more technology is very humbling.

30:32 I guess I don't know if I I told you as well, but as part of my finishing my my PhD I was trying to find to this is some of the earliest stuff we're doing is the earliest stuff covering and again big way, but I also got I had just like The DaVinci Code style quest to find the first-ever radar Sounder. And so your people in the field argue about who did what first and I was like fine as part of my PhD, I'm just going to spend a couple weeks and drill down through literature find who it who was and eventually it came to

31:11 It's a group in UK the same group who led the survey the British Antarctic Survey and then Scott Scott polar Research Institute of Cambridge and they there's a guy there who built one of The Radars who cited only one paper which is a PhD thesis from Caltech from 1948 or 51 or something like this. And so I went to Caltech tried to get the thesis but it was Casino in the archives. I talked to one of my former high school students from the science competition who is a freshman at Caltech and got him to request it. So he requested it and I went to lie brunette got it and I sat down and I read through the whole thing is screwing up. This guy not cited excited like, you know military leadership at Nothing by Sally she so I looked it up. His name is Bernard Stenson and Isaac went. Okay now he went to Alaska he made a measurement of a non-compete. Somebody was definitely ice-penetrating radar. So I looked in the white pages. I was this guy Barnard Stenson 92, Torrance, California.

32:06 And so I called him. I just called called this guy. I like I visit from the jet propulsion Labs. Did you get a PhD from contacting weather for West 4851? He's like yes, and I'm like watches ready. Peace tea and I think you might have created ready with halogen. He's like my good to you that can I come and talk to you about this Sunday's I can like a white one of you freeze like man. I'm like 93 lot more free than you are. So I went down and actually David who you know who's in Italian post talk about it at the time music grad student. Italy working with me that you feel like second week and I was like, all right. I'm going to drive across La I'm going to meet this old man who I think may be invented our field and so we drove to his house and was like this classic ale house and make their like couches with like plastic over in stock and we go in and his his his his grown sons were there to make sure we went like, you know cream

33:06 If you to like take advantage of their father, so we sat down we talked to him in like all right to know what to how did how did you end up doing this in? So it turns out he was from like North Dakota or something and World War II was happening and his father was buddies with somebody and the draft board and it's like your son's about to be drafted and he's like man I want to do that so he could hitchhike to like Minneapolis and enrolled in this technician course to be a radar technician. So they sent him to MIT to get trained at Radars and you spent needed he was in World War II in the Pacific repairing red eyes on boats in the Navy. So then you know what to do. So then you can let the innocent. So we're sitting here talking to this guy here in this epic story. And then he said yes, and then I relisted 4-year eyes at the Bikini Atoll when they tested it then you cook bombs and then he's like then after that I was like, oh, I guess I'll get a PhD

34:01 And so he enrolled at Caltech cuz he wanted to be somewhere warm and you took this course with this guy Pickering who went on his Professor Caltech went on to become director of JPL and the sky was teaching Scott. She like I'm going to take a group of Alaska which was not yet estate and we want to see if we can measure ice and he's like it when someone doing seismic ultrasonic up on radar so I know I'll do the radar and so so they went to Alaska and he had he was brought that radar. So so we were talking to him and having conversation David and I will go with you to use the radar was like a radar altimeter or so. I from airplanes like that. I just built it. It's in the garage and lakes in the garage if you want to see it and so he went to his garage is 97 year old guy Doug at this radar receiver and we're sitting in his living room. And so I heard it up and it was amazing. You still so sharp he was

35:00 You know what we went on to be talked about how they tested and I was thinking lucevan you saying? Okay, and we said well, okay like this what we're here. We're at JPL because we're sending a mission to Europa the moon of Jupiter tack to use this technology and weed. This is how we study ice sheets now and I could see that that I like supervisors what you know, you know permittivity of Three Water's ATI. Yes, they are and so what went on with you afterwards, he's like, oh, well, I hope he worked for an aerospace company and he's again now I'm involved in Toastmasters and I have quote considerable success on a 90 and over badminton International badminton circuit must have grown up hearing these epic stories.

35:51 And being like whatever dad, you know, and then like a years later we show up and like yep. We're here from now. So your dad created the field and he's like I told you so yes, I mean, I think what's been cool about both of us by project in that is you know, we're in this moment where we can still get in touch with the people who created our field and and really understand where I came from.

36:18 You don't know what are your hopes with this data? I like did you after seeing the workshops in people's reactions both at this conference in the one I went to before I can see everyone wants to know about this data. Did you imagine that would happen that you would have such an impact going back to your motivation was a little more nerdy. I think part of it was an interest in the history. I really do think that this opportunity to understand the roots of our feel deeply is rare and special to our feet how many other fields but it's special to our field in this moment. And I think that's why it's important to do but for me, you know, one of the ways people interpret it right are how strong are cozaar and there's a lot about this whole data people are flipping switches. There's old 6 year old notebooks.

37:13 And too many people again going back to Our Roots, as you know, students are either in trouble and I could students wanting to prove people wrong. I think, you know, I certainly have that as well as part of my I think you know story as a Christian academic and a lot of people have told me it was impossible to get ready metric data out of this stuff and I was really motivated to do that. It's actually everything we're doing so far. It's not even that yet is just the first step just the pictures now. I've been shocked at how much information there is I've been shocked at how much I can tell us how he has changed in last 40 years. I've been shocked at how many people have projects that actually I think I really waiting for this data, but for me what got me excited when I'm excited to start on after we write this first paper is actually using the other VA Scopes to the message the radiometric measurements and actually trying to reverse-engineer this, you know, this radar that doesn't exist anymore off of Old Danish circuit diagrams to make use of the

38:13 Information it gives me goosebumps. That's awesome.

38:20 Sharia

38:25 First gen college students sort of like really Central to I think your relationship and maybe even how it's affected your Dynamics within your family, Maddie got five minutes of that. All right.

38:43 I would love to hear your amp. I could be here all day on how it get on the oldest in my family. And so that's a big part as well as making sure my siblings can but I wanted to know if you feel it continues to impact you if it really does I think it and you know, it's nice now is it impacts me? I've come to a point to realize that their ways in which it's it's a strength their ways in which it's a setback and if you mentorship helps a lot you just don't know a lot of my good friends were professors are like 3rd 4th generation professors, right and they grew up knowing how the job works. It's just strange job and knowing what they needed to do. And what success look like, you know when your intuition is well-calibrated. What is Woody Hughes whole and what isn't she got to learn all that?

39:31 But there are these things I think you know, I learned my role models of what work is is so profoundly more like work at the one I do and you know, there's a lot of talk and I can give me about work-life balance and how hard it is in the hours and like yeah, that's all true. But like to me, you know, like real work you never really liked Stephanie know I had this moment I'm relatively recent. I was at JPL and I had to stand for job coming in and my hair is like super embarrassingly. It was the day I got my ergonomic keyboard. So I didn't sprain my wrist typing for a living at JPL and I like called my dad and he had like on his finger crushed in machine went got stitches went back finished fixing machine that I'm like that is work you do that is my childhood Ito role model of manhood, you know, and and I think what's great about that.

40:31 I think you can stay in touch with what a privilege it is. You can stay in touch with how cool it is that you get to do this if I could deeper and deeper way that I think you know really is energizing and I think it it gives a purpose cuz the thing with Academia is like as you see we spent all this time writing these papers that like five people will read you know, and I think you know having gone through and having these Elite universities like radically changed my life for the better and an impact my family to go to the question where I can help support relatives. I can help Mentor younger cousins. There's a lot of benefit now, I think that

41:15 For me now. When I do spend time writing these papers only one person will read I know that you know, I'm doing it while also mentoring other people and helping maintain, you know, this ladder of academic meritocracy and social Mobility as well. And I think it it helps when the purpose of the Sciences out of touch to remind you there were these other purposes and impacts that are coming along the way that that I think I like a bigger deal lease to me.

41:45 Thank you so much. See for the opportunity to work with you to learn this world of science and see all of the opportunities that can be ahead. I know it's changing my life. It's changing my little sister's lives and my grandmother who do you know doesn't understand always what I'm talking about, but she follows long and

42:09 Yeah, it's it's been great. And we're lucky to have you thanks for picking us over. The actual is driving me. So it's really it's really been so great. And I'm so glad you've been able to continue working with her even after you left for, Colorado.