Thomas Satterly and Shelia Roberts

00:04 Hi, my name is Sheila Roberts. I'm 59 years old today is July 27th. 2007 were in Butte Montana and I'm the interviewer of my husband time a my name is Tom Saturday and I'm 57 years old and it still is July 27th. 2000 7th and where in Butte?

00:29 And Sheila and I are married.

00:33 For about 20 years. No 15.

00:38 Don't tell me what you look like what I look like I am. I guess pretty good-sized.

00:47 Bald alas let my hair grow to a ponytail not too long ago. I weigh about 230 lb and fair-skinned 10 to freckles and sunburns.

01:04 And where were you born? And where did you grow up?

01:08 And in what was be like in the 50s and 60s when you were growing up?

01:17 It's an awesome place.

01:22 It's it's it's it's almost hard to describe. It was in my early youth to largest city in Montana and gradually was passed by others. But but in our spirit, we're still the largest city in Montana and it and it gives you you learn a sort of a well-deserved arrogance being Butte.

01:46 Lots of people from all over the world. There were neighborhoods. I could walk into and not hear English many 1st and 2nd generation families.

02:04 Lots of kids in Catholic School more kids in Catholic School in in public school as a matter of fact

02:14 Industrial Town copper mines Richard Terrell Hill on Earth they call it still do.

02:23 What else?

02:26 End of the sixties things started to slow up with the minds and such there was a big strike in 1959 and lots of people pulled out.

02:35 But still

02:39 High school sports and such that was always a known in Montana that it's never a disgrace to lose to a butane.

02:49 How

02:51 When the when I married Tom and when I married you, my mother said, oh good. Our family has a Storyteller. And so most of my questions here going to be about Tom stories of his stuff is life into it before I met him which has been a really interesting thing for me to learn about Tom tell me about your parents their ethnic background and what they were like, oh my father he passed away when I was pretty young. I was four.

03:22 He was passed away from a heart attack as a result of the mine accident. It worked at the mini Jane mine out west of town. He was Irish and The Story Goes that I look something like him so much so that I disconcerting things happen as in my early adulthood. I would be walking down the street in an old person man old man and older woman would come walking up to me and stop me in the street and stare at me and say,

03:55 Your Saturday aren't you which is

03:59 Could I have never seen these people before and I'll never forget one one gentleman. His name is Fleury Leary on the steps of the County cars house up here. He walked by me and turned around and hit me in the middle of the back right between the shoulder blades hard, you know, the older guy wouldn't think he had it in him but hard and he said your father never slouched in the day in his life and I'll be darned if I'm going to stand by here and see you slouch.

04:31 And I left a mark on me.

04:37 My father I guess was a person who would never back away if there was something going to happen that involved.

04:52 A confrontation. He never backed away from it. My mother told me lots of stories about that.

05:00 That she could always count on him. If anybody ever said anything that that Tom satterly would be there my mother never backing down play out in your line of work early on in my life. I can remember Cheese 3 or 4 years old. I can remember coming home. Somebody had just punched me.

05:29 And I can remember Coming Home by Guess crying or something. My father took me by the hand down Main Street.

05:39 To the kids house and stood away and said punch it back.

05:46 And we didn't leave until that happened and I don't remember what happened after that. But I do remember that procession down Main Street.

05:58 Mom know okay, mom was born out on the Eastside pair of flat. My father was Centerville Irish there. She was born out in the pair of flat lot of different ethnic neighborhoods in Butte, but she was born out there. She had a family of cheese mop Island.

06:20 For girls who have Sun I think we'll get there. She's Welsh. She was Welsh and she passed away in 1992.

06:32 And she probably had the biggest effect.

06:38 On me because she was the one who raised me most of the time and

06:43 And I

06:46 Yeah, you always hear she she was in Earnest person cheerful Ernest always quiet a teetotaler. She would always go out then she would have a glass of orange pop and then people would think she was drinking a screwdriver and wouldn't wouldn't say any more about it. But an interesting time during the Depression she did that she worked.

07:09 Early on hurt her first marriage kind of went sour and she went to work in the depression as a teenager for the NYS National Youth Administration. And then the WPA The Works project Administration where she became a seamstress an excellent silver from there. She when World War 2 started she started with the office of price Administration the OPA and she worked her way up to be her State price.

07:47 Coordinator for rationing and such and not bad from a kid from the East side, you know, she would travel around the state organizing and making sure people were following the rationing codes and laws and such.

08:03 She was had long black hair when she was young. I've seen the pictures which gave her a sort of ethnic look in Montana lots of of

08:17 Native people have long black hair first American types and cheese. I think this happened up in Glasgow. She got off the train the Great Northern there Conway to do price checking in Glasgow Montana. She went into a hotel.

08:35 And the desk clerk said we have no rooms when she was kind of bewildered and it was late at night and she was a woman alone and she went and sat in the lobby and another family came in a couple and he signed them right up didn't appear to mom as though they had reservations and

08:57 This happened several other times until finally she went back and ask again why she wasn't being given a room and finally the desk clerk told her that we don't rent rooms to Indians.

09:12 And kind of a sad thing to say, but but Mom.

09:18 Asserted that she wasn't an Indian and brought out her whole PA identification card and assured the gentleman that she'd be down to check his books the next morning to see that he was properly following the rationing coach.

09:38 You have assertive quintessentially Butte background to me about your grandparents and how you all got here to Butte.

09:48 G my father died

09:51 So young and all of his brothers passed away before him so really the only stories are no lie. No aware of what mom told me and what I heard from my dad's adopted unofficial I guess but his grandma is my grandma Walsh Molly Walsh up Centerville, my grandfather. His dad was involved in the Granite Mountain Speculator fire 1917, and so didn't perish in that died a result of smoke inhalation some months later.

10:31 My grandmother had for boys and she was always at as I hear of a delicate Constitution and passed away. Not that long afterwards overworked, I guess and the four boys went to Twin Bridges the state orphanage.

10:51 And as I understand it and that family the Collins family was my grandmother and The Saturdays my grandparents were the first generation here in Butte and came right to Butte.

11:07 My mom's family and my grandmother gift gift was her name and her husband my grandfather Thomas John. He was from Wales and she was Welsh although was from stratford-on-avon and and England and they came to Butte. I'm not sure. I think the kid family came straight to be with the John just came by way of Michigan and drive to compute and they met both families as I understand met here and married here and

11:43 And your grandpa?

11:46 On that side Grandpa gifts was the musician gift was a musician, but his son my grandfather Tom John's was an excellent clarinet player. He was a charter member of the Butte mines band when it was formed by Sam treloar out and meet Orville Montana one of the neighborhoods.

12:10 Kia audition form was accepted by John Philip Sousa, but the regulations about families traveling with mr. Souza's band precluded my grandfather from actually joining.

12:25 But he always marched in the parade sand and participated in the concerts.

12:31 And my my uncle my mother's brother also became my clarinet player two pretty good one.

12:40 What about your grandma's? What was she remember her pretty? Well, we always call the Family call him on par. I never knew pie passed away during World War II of silicosis from the mind, but

12:56 Ma was this quiet?

12:58 Proper

13:01 English woman always with a cup of tea hot strong tea with milk and a little bit of milk never did anything to lessen the heat. I have never experienced. You would see her have a sip of this when I was a little kid, you know that tea with decalcify your teeth. I mean it was hot, but you would drink it down like it was good. It was amazing thing, but always always quiet but

13:28 Set one more one more wanted.

13:32 Something particular done. She she got it done. Are you went to my grandmother's house? No matter what you'd been doing. You had just come from supper at at wherever it was out and need another song Let's go by and see more you went by there you ate. That was it first a bread-and-butter came out a cup of tea a glass of milk for me. Then that little bit of that roast beef that they had for supper and bread and butter sandwich and it didn't matter you wait.

14:04 Your grandma had something else that she offered when she perceived that you might be sick. Thank you for sharing that there was a medication that people called in are nature's remedy.

14:23 And when I was little there was a while that I was staying with my brother because my mom and my stepdad went in neighboring Phillipsburg and neighboring town. He was 4 minute of mine out there, but I was staying with my brother and I would often try to get out of going to school sometime, you know soft touch try to pull it off on the big brother.

14:45 But I made the mistake of saying that I didn't feel too. Well at my grandmother's house and she said here take a pill.

14:55 My brother I should have known I should have known Jeff my brother turned away laughing his shoulders lurching as I swallow this pill.

15:03 Well, I'll tell you the Nature's remedy was a

15:08 Spring tonic, I guess it's a nice way to put it for the next two and a half days. I could not leave close proximity of the bathroom. You know, I miss is a sixth sixth grade kids what seven-years-old something like that Jeff a point at me since you'll learn you'll learn never ever take a pill that my office you never do it. So

15:30 Life's little lessons

15:34 In in Montana Butte was an urban place where almost all the rest of us were rural in one way or another by did you guys too and dude for a good day for a great day?

15:48 Enjoy the city.

15:51 I wish it was always that way I can wait wait for left town you no longer want to sell them Max would go out fishing, but I would never Max in my step that whenever we would go out fishing and such but I was never an outside type person. We would have as a as a young kid. We'd hang out, you know, go play some ball down in the rink and with the neighborhood punks, you know, they were lots of us.

16:18 But the perfect afternoon is when Mom would have spent the morning baking past. He's so that move portable meat pie and such we all get together in the car and head out to the Columbia Gardens in early afternoon head out there. The gardens was a park that was maintained by the ACM for years it closed.

16:48 Somebody found or under it and they minded Butta Anaconda Copper Mining Company. Anyway, we go out to the garden and on the way, we stopped at the cousins houses and various places and bring aunts and uncles and cousins and and as many people as we could get into the Convoy heading up to the gardens Gardens of beautiful place Thursday afternoons, all of the street cars and buses were free for kids going to the gardens and get started. We'll get high on the hill in the shade and find a picnic table or a place where they spread out a blanket and

17:28 Come close to the playground and the playground at the Gardens at Columbia large was just astonishing there were all sorts of wonderful slides and swings and cowboy swings Cowboy swings were two people sitting on either side and they were so I don't know if there was a little hydraulic control in them or not, but it said in brace your feet on the pegs down below and then pull back and forth on two handles and Alternate lie back and forth until you started the swing going back and forth and it hung down from two bars from the high Atop The swing frame and

18:18 When you go back and forth and you get it up Hyatt, I think the tops of them that these frames were 15 ft tall but the trick was to crack the bar. She should gets going so high that those bars were clap together. And that was a that was the gutsy thing to do is to get them to where you could Clap the bars. And then the extremely gutsy thing to do would be to bail off backwards just at the right time. So you could land in the sawdust pit not break your head or something like that. But yeah, right.

18:51 Slides fun slide copper surface slides with hoods over them to keep them from getting too hot long ones with bumps in the middle and such and it's pretty obvious.

19:08 We head out have pasties in a mom a beautiful pasties then afterwards everybody would go down below where the arcade and such and the the the big rides were the roller coaster. I wouldn't two-tiered roller coaster and the biplanes sort of a high tall.

19:29 Deal with these funky little planes hanging from the end of cables in as it would spin the planes would fly out in

19:38 It'd be kind of going around almost sideways and a merry-go-round with a calliope and hand carved horses and wonderful things. I can remember that they yeah, the roller coaster they had the Cars 2 seat cars you can fit four, maybe six people in the cars. They push out onto the chain that would hold you up to the top in these wooden cleats would pass underneath and get a good car clunk clunk clunk in the whole works with Rattlers youth go up to the top and then that that little respite and she went around the long first corner and way up high and the wooden frame.

20:23 You could see where the roller coaster cars would hit against it as they went around with all worn and then down that first the first slope going down. Everybody would scream especially if you were in the front seat you go around and around and down to the second decan and I'll pull in and operators would put on these brakes. But if you knew the operator, you know.

20:48 Let the Breakthrough when push on through so you have another ride for free.

20:54 Replace the arcade was one of the electric Carnival arcade. The only difference was you could win stuff.

21:00 Ice cream shop get popcorn. And remember the old marble top wire frame tables in the city have a story of an adventure Into the Wilderness of your family one time going out to camp we went camping once.

21:30 Pala at work.

21:33 Once a philosopher I guess is that the type of thing it is. We went out my brother. Newly married just months maybe a year. I've been really married.

21:44 He and his wife took her little brother and his little brother me out camping.

21:50 I don't know. I think we went towards Glacier Park. I don't really remember but Jeff went out and bought a new Coleman stove and a hatchet. Then we were all ready to go on one of these Sears tents that weighed a hundred pounds if a canvas big monster tent

22:13 We went out and set up this tent and Jeff said go chop some wood with the new Hatchet. So we broke the new Hatchet out-of-the-box. How are we to know that they don't sharpen the hatchets before they sell them to you, right?

22:30 So I was going up pummeling this pile of wood with a double Hatchet trying to break off some pieces and finally got enough when he built a little fire and sitting around that then Jeff started up the Coleman stove. It was the first time we'd ever used a Coleman stove. It was beautiful beautiful. We did all of the things, you know, you put the the fuel in it and pump it up on this side. You know, you did that.

23:00 Livernois that the thing makes all as you're pumping it up and lift the fire and got the they say Let It Burn little bit let it burn ban. I guess we might have Pump It Up Just A Little Too Tall. I don't know exactly when we turned around there were Flames probably 15 ft high of the Coleman stove and this is National Park Country right like trees and

23:35 The Rangers saw the fire and they were amazingly fast getting there with fire prevention tools and chastising us severely not to not to do that anymore. I can remember we went into whatever Town it was and bought peanut butter and jelly for sandwiches.

23:55 There was a nice camping trip on the way back. We've got tired and pulled off the edge of the road and Pitch the tent and what looks like a nice little spot.

24:07 Until about 2 in the morning. Everybody was soundly asleep and this nice little spot and all of a sudden the inside of the tent lit up like daylight.

24:20 And you heard the whistle of the oncoming North Coast limited train on the Northern Pacific, you know that 8 feet from the tracks we went and

24:40 If try to imagine people

24:42 In a hot Summer's evening because we saw them by the Light of the headlight of the train that we weren't in danger, but for that instant, it was really experiencing.

24:58 Cafe car when I worked on the mines and I think I put 70,000 miles on it before I left.

25:11 The city limits. Just cruising the drag. Yeah. It was in the mines. How did you end up working down in mind the last two grandfathers basically because of that Uncle and your dad I graduated from high school. I was never the world's best doing but I went off to college and get better at college for a little while, but eventually that reasserted itself and I flunked out the first time I flunked out I went to work in the Berkeley pit.

25:50 Mucking on belts is what it was underneath one of The Crushers and mucking is a euphemism for digging with a shovel. The verb is to muc. The person is the mucker. The utensil is the muck stick and to this day I will say things like muck out the basement or something. They faithful promise to you that I will promise that I will do that and you have picked it up. When are you going to do about that? Yeah, right, but

26:23 And I flunked out another time. I liked it so much. It was such a thrill to flunk out another time when I became a oiler on shovels in the Berkeley pit and whoever's the charm and went and Wrestled a job at the ACM in the only thing they had for us people who were working there or was work underground and I started in the Leonard mine in 1971. I think it was the 3800 foot level at the Leonard happy about thrilled. Yes.

27:03 Celtic people Welsh Irish and all of their known for having a temper. I always hear that Irish temper going off and then periodically they lose their temper turn them after a little while. It's it's a past and everything's fine. The Welsh folks to my experience have the same sort of temper except it's sort of a longer deal. They they have the same amount is the hours for the only lose it every seven years. So you can imagine the intensity there and I was one on one of the seven seven years actually had two of the seven years once that I flunked out again, and then the next time was that I went underground in the mines that she was not pleased. No,

27:44 Not a little so tell me that that go underground.

27:49 Underground. It's it's an experience and we could have sunburn.

27:54 Go to a place called the dry to change your clothes at dry as this great gigantic room with fans and gas heaters up near the ceiling and if you can imagine bars going across the ceiling with wheels on them little ship Wheels with a chain over the top and a basket of one into the chain and change of clothes in pain all of your clothes and put your stuff in the basket your shoes and and then you could pull the chain up and hang your clothes from the ceiling and that was useful for coming out of the mines. Your clothes were always wet and hang them on this deal pull them up in these big heaters would blow across the roof of the car the ceiling of that of the dryer to dry your clothes.

28:41 And you walked into the dry the first time it look nothing more like 500 people hanging from the ceiling because your coach and your hat in your hard hat was on the top there and all you looked up and it's kind of an ominous experience walking in the you no flaking out getting his going and seeing all of these things. I changed out with Brad and my stepfather is good for him. Everybody else was mad at me. But the father who in his day max moebus he was

29:16 As far as I have heard from other people in town, he was the best Miner on the beauty Hill.

29:23 And he got me set up with things that would take that shine of a greenhorn off just a little bit, you know told me some things to do and who to go see who to stay close to and

29:37 But in any case I was bright shiny new and went down to the area where we got our mind lamps those wet sell electric lamps so far off the charger and put it on the hat want to see the foreman told me where to go to my assigned work area, and he's alright Tommy go to the 3800.

30:00 3800 foot level of the Leonard mine. We walked out to the Head frame the gallus frame and the station tenders big big men who were the elevator operators packed people into the cage very very tightly for people can fit into one of these cages comfortably one of the cages in the Leonard shaft. It was not uncommon for seven or eight to be in the cage at one time. And then the big big station tender would force his way in at the end. And so everybody had to Exhale that last ounce of breath to make room for him.

30:39 Have you ever been on top of a building when that elevator starts down in one of those tall buildings in that elevator has to get down quick cuz they're charging money for it and everything. That's kind of feeling that feeling in your stomach, you know.

30:54 Imagine what it's like when the operating engineer Cuts away the brakes on the

31:03 The Hoist and everybody in the cage lift 3 inches off the floor. That's how fast is start to descend. And is you go down everything rattles in the cage? Because the defamation of the earth everything is not quite squares. It was when they built it. So the cages are always rattling and catch is catching for an instant as it rattles down the down. The shaft in shaking in your lamps are going around and it gets cold for a little while and then it starts to warm up as you get deeper and deeper of the lights of levels were people are working just flashing past flashing past in an instant as you go deeper and deeper and deeper into the mine gets hotter and hotter and stuff starts tripping on you dust is falling as you're going deeper and deeper in the operating engineers on the surface knows exactly where the cages and when it starts approaching the 3800 foot level where we had signaled him to go or the station Center had signaled him to go. He starts applying the

32:03 Which is another interesting concept. Have you ever played paddleball, you know what the little balsa wood pallet of the Batman Batman Batman with that thick 3800 feet of Steel cable stretches like a elastic does on that. So when you reach the 3800 foot level and the cage, it finally stopped it would extend down past that level like an elastic and then bounce back up and finally settle itself. You would open the cage and you'd walk out into this world a hundred and ten degrees hundred percent humidity.

32:43 The 38 of the Leonard was a wet level. I was always dripping always dripping on you and would

32:55 Dirty stuff dissolved in it sulfuric acid sulfur dissolved in the water sulfuric acid would always get the copper sores on your arms from this stuff. And then there was arsenic from some of the other minerals in there that would kind of make sure that those sores never healed quite right until you were well as long as you worked in the mines you had little little sore to delicate places behind your ears are under your arms or places like this.

33:23 My partner

33:26 Everybody tried to stay away from me. I was a greenhorn. Nobody wanted greenhorn as a partner for man came down or the ship boss came down and said Sparky. Here's your new partner and Sparky look kind of looked up at the sky like he was saying why me. Why why me and he says, alright, Tommy. Everybody have an ID on their name until I give you a proper nickname Underground.

33:49 Get your mug stick. Let's go to work.

33:52 Bad we walk back into the drift the drift is that horizontal tunnel that goes away from the long vertical shaft and as we walked away the hubbub of the shaft poop softer and softer and then pretty soon all we could here's our own boots as we walked down the town the drift.

34:09 And our own lamps

34:12 The only light we had.

34:14 Rounded the corner. I can remember the first time. I went into a stupor. They actually mine the ore and hard to imagine a more beautiful sight as you're with your own life was your lamp is you put your head into the time to climb up a hundred feet of vertical ladder to get this dope and he looked around all of those minerals unweathered bright bright the white quartz the blue with a peacock copper The Cove light the bornite the NRG at all of these beautiful minerals this rainbow of colors coming back to you. It's hard to imagine fairy's Castle just a wonderful experience.

34:54 That was a good day.

35:00 So, how long did you stay in the mind? I worked in the mines for just under two years or just over depending on which type I think it was just under hair memory, you know.

35:13 I wish could like to quit.

35:17 Had a couple of harrowing experiences toward the end of my career and then they came the rumors that they were going to close the mines and I don't know if you've ever heard old-timer saying Jesus whatever there is I hope they don't close the grain Miller. I hope they don't close the fact fail to don't close the mine because it's all I know how to do.

35:38 And I said that and I was 25 26 years old. Geez. I hope they don't close this mine. It's all I know how to do and something just like something hit me. Yes it that's dumb and I turned in my time the next day.

35:55 So then I went to learn something else and that something else.

36:04 Well, let's see. I went back to school again and it never really worked out in my school academic post post-secondary academic career here in Montana was until I met you that I went back the last time and actually graduated but geez, I I worked as a pearl diver up shoes me a dishwasher in a restaurant in Bozeman. I worked as a quality control inspector. I was a Rancher for a while out in the bull mountains down there or south of Roundup Montana got a sound like that when you're talkin about ranching and round up cuz they do people talk like that to Bull Mountain Daisy was yes. It was yes Susan friend of mine Daryl took me to a dance and melstone Montana country dance never experienced anything like it country western band playing on the stage and families coming in for 50 mile radius just to come to the dance on Saturday night and I met this young woman.

37:03 Ask her to dance.

37:06 We kind of hit it off. She knew she'd never met a few person before and I never met her at a ranch or French girl before in and that was on her daddy's Ranch that I went to work after my friend. Darryl. Darryl silly one of my best friends. He he would always write letters after and saying that he fully expected and I could hear a posse riding out of the bull mountains with him as their object, you know, cuz he had introduced me to the Bull Mountain Days Inn.

37:36 Country life has beat Farmer for a while work on the railroads.

37:46 A lot of different things and more jobs than anybody I've ever known back to Bude for this little cuz we've only got about a few minutes left here. When when you were growing up here you had what 17 years of Catholic Education and know only only only 13 that's right went to the Immaculate Conception grade school.

38:14 And Christian Brothers High School boys Central back one with an all-boys School in grade school. There were more kids and dude in Catholic schools in in the public schools. What's the weather piece of your graduating class in 1964 had 60 for kids in our 8th grade class.

38:39 Freeze a certain interest in kind of teacher Sister Mary Saint Ambrose is when I can remember one of the only people I know who could actually straight arm a thirteen-year-old kid off the ground he could she would reach out and pick him up by the collar and let them straight up off the ground to his feet were not on the ground anymore. And she said something like you're not going to do that. Are you mister satterlee? And I'd Noster syllable sster Nostrand and then there was just some sort of a flick of the wrist of it and you would be back against the wall and down at the floor at about the same time, but didn't know that you have been chastised.

39:18 Yesterday you still have that reaction Laramie, Wyoming and sisters back when they were the Habit always had the long rosaries which made of interesting noises depending on what they were doing. You can always tell a nun's mood by the sound of the Rosary often times when I'm done with spit spin about to deliver some sort of chest Corporal chastisement. Those rosary beads would make a certain noise and we were talking at this because he dinner and I mentioned Butte and the sister who is walking alongside of us was from Butte at the time or is she born and raised in but she was living in Laramie and she spun around quickly. I heard that noise and I ducked I was 38 years old and I ducked ready to be hit and she says

40:14 What do you know about Butte Warner stir everything came back, you know 30 years later no changes.

40:23 Anything else about your grade school high school memories and other was a rivalry between the Publix and they and the Catholic school kids. There were always that kind of thing, you know, well,

40:39 Catholic kids always had more holidays in school and such as that. We would go down to the McKinley School and stand out in front of inside school days school days Publix cooking school days.

40:55 Friendly, you know but football games View High Butte Central football games were always intense rivalries, but interesting thing when it came to another town coming to buta Play-Doh soft.

41:16 We're help you.

41:22 Anything else you'd like to tell me about your life and do.

41:27 Or what would you like to be remembered for?

41:32 Wow.

41:35 Well, it's kind of your fault in a way.

41:40 You brought me.

41:43 Took me to Wyoming there were pools indeed whether I'd ever leave and they lost took me off to Wyoming and then to Canada and then down to dealing, you know on such and I became a storyteller.

41:57 And maybe

41:59 What I'd like to review remember it is maybe some of the kids who hurt my stories.

42:06 Maybe they'll remember that guy who told him about.

42:12 Hope you used to be.

42:15 And

42:18 They'll know the reason.

42:21 Why is the best place to live?