Mary Humstone and Courtney Caplan

00:05 My name is Mary humston. I'm 57 years old today is July 12th 2008 and I'm in Laramie Wyoming with my friend Courtney Kaplan and my name is Courtney Caplin. I am 57 and it is July 12th 2008 in Laramie, Wyoming and I'm here with my friend Mary hum Stone Mary and I met back in the late seventies 77 or 78 when we both move to Story, Wyoming.

00:42 And we're here today to talk about the the lucky happenstance that we had a promising with two US separate old Master Carpenters who were born in the early part of the twentieth century. I'm here to talk about Chris Buck and Mary is going to talk about Archie Sawyer the first I want to ask Mary. How did you wind up coming to Wyoming in the first place Mary before I even met you.

01:14 Yes in 1973. I graduated from the University of Michigan with a degree in Chinese health. Of course, the first thing I did was load up my Toyota station wagon and move to Wyoming cuz I had grown up in New York City and then I gone to college in Michigan and I guess this is my journey West and one of the reasons I chose Wyoming was that I for some reason I was really interested in doing construction work and Wyoming was going through this big boom in the early 70s, and I'd heard that women could get jobs and Construction in Wyoming. So I came out to see what that was all about.

01:52 And my first experiences working construction. We're not really that satisfactory. I actually joined the Union operating engineers Union and they had to send me out two jobs because I was a member of the Union so they would send me out two jobs. And then the Via supervisor would who's the name Jerry and where this can a khaki suit and he have a name tag said Jerry already out in public and didn't know what to do with a woman. And so, you know, he first of all we put me doing the rec jobs with all the guys and I was fine and then pretty soon he'd say hate you and I pull up in his pickup. Hey you come over here and he's at would have thought of some brainstorm some stupid job that you know, he had me one time this one job. I was put off in this trailer riding labels for pieces of rebar.

02:52 And it was so boring and I was totally separated from everyone else in these guys would come in and say all boy, you've got it maid for the winter going to be out there shoveling with you but Nikki at least $5 an hour. Yeah. So I am I worked at coal mine and Hannah and I worked at the power plant in Glenrock and the power plant outside Rock Springs and but no straps are very satisfactory because none of these men these supervisors wanted to have me there and they've made it really miserable for me and and I eventually quit. So how did you come to Story Wyoming? Well, I I was I did get a job with a seismograph crew and I worked with him for two years when we went all over the West on for I hate to admit it but looking for a while and gas and but eventually they moved us in this is what these Crews always seem to do. They moved us to Sheridan Wyoming and a week later. They said oh you're all laid off.

03:52 So I had to go to the job service office then I apply for unemployment and I moved his story because I had some friends who were living there at the time. I wanted it was in the job service office and this woman came up to me and she said well, I think I have a job for you, Really? She said Yep. This man called up and he said I need some help and I don't even care if it's a girl.

04:21 Well, so she gave me the slip of paper in this name and address I was supposed to report to and so I I left and I went to this address and I met Archie Sawyer when the how old was Archie you think at that point. He was probably about 1976 and not sure exactly when Archie was for him. But I think he was in his late 70s that time he spent at least 75 and he had been a carpenter. He was from Laramie and he's been a carpenter since he was 15 years old and he had tried retiring I hated it and so his son and persuaded him to move up to Sheridan and he was building these little he called them little houses building a little houses 40 little houses. Will they were actually little storage sheds for a trailer park that is Sun out.

05:14 But aren't you he said he's had all these guys working for him and none of them worked out. And so he know he said he would take me on and everything was really wonderful. Is that right from the start? He he was a really good teacher and he was willing to teach me and so every day he let me do you know one more job each day. He teach me one job whether it was just measuring out the boards or cutting them or you know, nailing them together, whatever but each day. I would learn one more thing until I and one day he say, okay. Merry boy. He called me Mary boy did say OK Mary Boy, you know, you do it yourself this time and then I have to figure it out. So, you know Archie and I got along really well. What kind of tools did you use when you were building these houses back in the seventies? Well, we use all hand tools that aren't you how to shop and he had a table saw and jointer and some things like that but on the job we used

06:13 Hand saw

06:16 Hammer old fashioned Hammer not a power hammer rental. And so I work for him. I don't know three or four weeks. I was very happy he was happy and then one day he was a little late coming back from lunch and I'm kind of worried about what happened to him and and he walked in and and I had this huge grin on his face and he's kind of rocking back and forth and grinning I said what's going on and then he start patting his chest and I always wear those overalls for the big pocket as the chest chest like this and he said merry boy, I'm going to learn you the trade and he was patting his chest cuz he had to do to two lots sign out to the to the courthouse. He just bought two lots and Sheridan he decided that he in

07:16 We're going to build two houses together and he was so excited because he thought his carpentry career was basically over and all he'd ever build again where these little storage sheds but since he had a good helper he decided that he could he could get into building had a crew yet.

07:35 So and the idea was to build one spec house and the second house it was going to be his house to live in and he had never been a carpenter for 60 years or more and he's never built his own. That's really typical. Yeah.

07:51 So Arch, and I moved from Little House has two full sized houses and we built these two houses with just the two of us. He never never hired another crew member and it was it was pretty amazing the way you learn how to do a lot of times. I was just by myself out there because he was be here. First thing to do is build his shop put all his Tools in there and then he go in there and putter around and he say, you know, Mary Boyd today you need to frame this wall or something like that. And you know, I'd be out there doing all this this work by myself will not didn't he didn't he from time to time get some help from the Salvation Army Crew He didn't what were those guys like well every once in a while, I'll be at work in our to he drove us some light blue International Harvester pickup and he pull up to the job in there be maybe three or four guys and in the back of the pickup and he would have stopped by the Salvation Army to pick up some day workers.

08:50 And these are usually a lot of them were alcoholics and you know, they can get out of the truck and they say and he said to them, this is Mary boy. She's in charge do what she says and then he go in the shop and these guys, you know, I was 23 24 years old osher.

09:17 And so I tell him to go, you know shovel or help me carry this Lumber hold a board or something like that and pretty soon one of them would you know, sometimes they said something sometimes they just Shuffle off but one of them said I got to go get some cigarettes and you just walk off and then pretty soon when would say I got to get a cup of coffee and he walked off and another direction and you know by by noon they were right. I was just Mary boy with her lonely hammer and a bag of nails and Archie and Myrtle took you in didn't they they they started including you and family gatherings or they would give you things at Christmas. Well, aren't you my first Christmas present from Archie was a pair of carpenter overalls, and I don't know if you've ever seen a comforter overalls, but they there one piece thing and the pockets for

10:17 Nails are built-in. So you're wearing this in a walking around with us 20 lb pair of overalls really pretty uncomfortable, but it was really sweet of him to let you know if I have course I had to wear those everyday, but he also when I when he decided that I was going to work out he took me down to the Lumberyard and he picked out a hammer for me in a plane and a square and so he you know, he gave me tools and after you give me a few tools, he he show me how to build a tool box out of plywood and scraps of wood and I still have that tool box. And then let's see if I had a hand saw he got me a hand saw and then he taught me how to sharpen it. And so, you know why every few days or at least once a week you had to sharpen your hand sauce because we we didn't use the skill saw anything on the job. He had those Power Tools in a shot, but we were if I was cutting a piece of siding or cutting a stud or something like that. I used to Hansa.

11:17 We cut all the rafters by hand. You know, he he would lay it all out with the Angles and then I cut them and then I climb up on a ladder and you know nail each one separately. So we didn't use trusses anything like that in this house is so so so now this is a late 70s and 3 thousands were all built, you know, piece-by-piece basically. So how long did you work for RT? I worked for him for two years and he learned me the trade but difficult thing was that he when we started working on his house and see how that went along pretty well and he he was doing all of the things that I should have mentioned that Archie was kind of an inventor and actually he had two patents on things that he had invented one of which was a window

12:11 And he's never had a chance to know none of his clients before it ever really wanted his inventions his own window. So when we built his own house, he was going to try out every single no idea he'd ever had but haven't had a chance to to a bill so building his own house turned out to be a very long process because I think he didn't ever want it to end because he knew once he did this and that was their final project. Yeah. Yeah, but we made windows from scratch. If you can believe it double pane windows. I I was gluing two pieces of glass together with little divider sticks in them in and he was making the sash for the windows and I mean just and the want this wonderful thing about this house was the deciding he had always wanted to fool people by having making his siding out of wood but making it look like brick.

13:11 So he got these one by 10 boards and he planned them so that they had the horizontal grooves and then I had to take a router and make all the little vertical grooves and then his former wife Myrtle. Who is the you know, she was in her 80s by this time. She was out there painting all of the immortal choice and he was so proud of that. He was so funny. He's sick in some ways. He looked kind of Grouchy was one of those people who know mouth kind of went down but but he was really really, you know, sweet man, and he was so patient with me and a good teacher that sounds wonderful teacher and eventually I had to quit because I just I knew you know, there was less and less for me to do but he kept making things up and and I just did.

14:11 Ashley had to quit go on to other

14:15 Other things so yeah, and actually that in some ways that was one of the ways we met after my grandmother died in 1977. I moved into our family cabin and which was not winterized at that time and you are on another crew at that time and you actually came in and built the the double roof that help me winterize that cab. That's right.

14:41 Let's talk about your experience and Chris buck. And the so tell me how you how you first met Chris. Will Chris Buck was born in 1904. He was one of the early Pioneers in The Story Wyoming area and

15:01 He grew up to be a master a carpenter and builder of log cabins and he built my grandparents log cabin for them in the mid-40s actually during the war and at that time they were using all hand tools. They actually got the logs down off the mountain and send them through the Sawmill playing them into six-by-six beams and they brought these the square logs to the site and actually with a draw knife rounded each log into a beautiful round log in with a flat Edge where they fit together and

15:44 Put them together and made all the beams used a horse and a sledge and to drag River Rock From. The Crypt was right by South Piney Creek and that's how those old-time Builders built in those days. They used local Stone right out the back door. Practically. They didn't have forms when they made the foundations. They just set up a string and you know plumbob the doctor level and built these beautiful stone foundations lay the log on top of that and usually for the fancy stonework, they would bring in some of the other Old-Timers. There were a couple of guys in the story Ariel Huseman and and Fletcher who built these fancy fireplaces.

16:35 But anyway, Chris Valdez beautiful log cabin and after my grandmother died 1977, I sort of moved into that summer cabinet and have never left and he at that time was sort of the caretaker for that that cabin and he was in his seventies by then. So Chris started showing me the ropes. He started showing me how to be a handyman. He showed me how to set a fence post and how to drain the pipes and how to get up on the roof and clean the gutters and and then one day I have been reading this book about I wanted to build a sound by the creek and I was going to have been reading this book and I was just going to take some railroad ties and just throw up a foundation and one day Chris just showed up with his his little home cement mixer and he's like my God if you're going to do this you're going to do it right now, you're going to you're going to start with a good foundation. So

17:34 We plug this cement mixer in to an outlet right by the cabin. And with this old wheelbarrows as soon as heavy, I mean, you know what they how they used to make those wheel barrels out of metal and with wood handles and we won wheelbarrow full at a time. We mix that concrete wheel it down on the creek and lay that foundation for that sound, and then we can we built it with the local wood from you know, rough cut Barn. From Buckingham Lumber and really had a guy had a great time with Chris that summer and anyone that came to visit got pulled in that sound a project and oh, I remember at the end of that project. I said gosh Chris has been awful nice of you. You know, how can we build this? I don't know how I can thank you any kind of grab me by the waist and said the only thing I'd like to do is you could thank him by taking a sauna with me and the face and I said why you have to get permission from your doctor.

18:34 High blood pressure and he never did get these at son. He did have high blood pressure and he

18:44 I you know, he used to smile. He always smoked and everything get him to quit smoking. But what we did is we sort of adopted him as part of the family. He never had any kids of his own his wife had died and we would include them in, you know, all our big dinners and doing some used to tell these really great stories and you know, one of some of the stories he told about the the way they used to build in the old days were as community events. I mean, there's a story Woman's Club that is still in use today. Great Old River Rock and log building and he said, you know, they didn't they didn't have any money. They didn't get a a grant they just they all got together and pool their resources and and built that Community call and in sharp contrast just this last year and story there was a new fire.

19:44 All that was built and they managed to get some grant money somewhere. I think somebody gave them far too much money and they built this building 4 times bigger than they needed out of metal siding completely blocked the view of the mountains and it was all paid, you know a construction. It would cost $100,000 in and it's ugly and it's a totally forgettable architecture, but these old these old stone and log structures that the the old Pioneer Craftsman build are still are you see him everywhere the still-standing this that you can see this you can just see the stone work that was done than and and what it's like now, in fact a lot of people are using fake rock, they'll make a cinder block foundation in

20:37 You know, there's so much heart and soul that went into those building so much hand work so much thought and it's such a difference now with with things just pay somebody to do it and they bring it in and next thing, you know the community people going to look over and go I got a new fire station to do with it. Yeah, and it's I mean the Wake for spill it was the same thing. They were all all hand tools. In fact, when when he died in the in the late eighties. I got some of his hand tools and I actually still have that wheelbarrow.

21:21 But Chris seemed like he took a lot of pride in in your place and probably the other places that he built in story. And you know, he wasn't going to let you build a sauna was likely old railroad ties and right, right. So did he end up teaching you a lot of about carpentry? And what was he like to work with? Well, Auntie Chris is a lot of fun. You know, he he I think he really liked what happened with you and Archie Sawyer. I think that being around young people really gave him a second wind in his old age and he had a lot of fun with us. I think what I annoyed the hell out of him. I I was always asking questions and he just say, you know by Gotye but you just quit asking so many questions and just just look up what I'm doing, you know and just do as I say and I learn to be a better Observer and

22:19 No not asking me questions used to tell these jokes that were just so corny. I mean, you know, how you know, what what's it? What's the All-American Tomcat with that's the one that makes 10 yards in one night. Hahaha, you know, why did the ram jump over the cliff all we miss the U-turn and he's always lead to talking about in his his use of the pranks that used to to pull, you know, as a kid like during Halloween that block somebody in the Allen house. So they'd take their buggy and put them on top of the shed and always be getting it all kinds of hot water and

22:59 I know he used to talk about that the the old days when they would have Gatherings often at the old Carney Hall which you know where that is. It's down there along lower Piney Creek and it's still standing but it was a cat that time a great meeting place for the people that lived in Story 5 miles away up in the woods and the ranchers and lower Piney was more out open in the prairie. They fit together at Carnegie Hall and they would gather for an all-day event. They would have box socialist during the day where women would fix these fancy lunches and they you dachshund off the boxes and whoever you bought the box from that's who you'd have lunch with and then they'd have dancing and they'd have you know races for the kids and then at midnight they stopped and they have a big supper.

23:53 And that they could stay out as late as they want as long as they rode home by daylight and in time for their chores and that's you know, the kind of community that they used to have an and that seems you know to be everyone's in such a hurry these days. It seems to really if kind of gone out the window. There's a lot less of that but I've got to say in story it I mean, I think you kind of continue this tradition of welcoming people like hell I remember going to your house for dinner and Chris Buck was there are showing up for breakfast in Chris Buck was there and then Albert would stop by and then a three or four people and next thing, you know, you sort of have a party and it doesn't happen where I live in Fort Collins. Can you play silence slushii? Call First? Yeah, I mean to steal a pioneering Spirit. There's always never and always enough no matter how much food you have in the house to feed people and theirs is it doesn't matter how many people stop by

24:54 Oh, you know one of the things that I think we're Chris really influenced me was actually built that sound on 8977 several years later. I I want of getting a piece of property in the on the edge of town and I built my own pottery studio. And even though it wasn't a log cabin I did use indigenous materials. I want a building around a rammed-earth building. We used the dirt from the hillside to build basically these Adobe block walls. And and that was that some of that Dave Clarendon was building his Log Cabin so he gave me all this extra logs for Rafters. I remember I peeled all the logs for those Rafters and you know, once again Buckingham Lumber with their rough cut wood for the decking is out with basically all materials local indigenous materials and still around

25:56 He brought his so he bring a lawn chair and he'd sit there and watch me work, you know any point in and actually as he got older and I remember he was getting older and pretty decrepit in part because he smokes so much. I started mowing his lawn Forum Hammer. You got to self one of those self-propelled lawn mowers and but he couldn't keep up with it because he's so that's even the launcher out then and he will sit there and he tell me how I'm ever getting kind of ticked off about that. I don't I know how to mow the lawn I know how to do it, you know, and but he'd I'd Milan and then he I come over early for 4 breakfast. He picks a like antelope steaks and you know that how much Delsym and flour in Little Egg and how have you called that like a Swiss steak and how they all the old-timers used to pound pound them eat a flat.

26:56 Flower and fragile is done and serve it with eggs and then we go out we get some work done. And yeah, so you sir to return the favor towards the other things for him that he's been doing for your family, you know, he is always called me to invite him over for dinner. He'd say, I'm just riding the grub line just riding the grub line. That's what they do. Those batches would come over and they do, you know, get a get a meal and just sit. Well, I'm just riding the grub line. It's like they just stopped off and but yeah Chris died 1988 and I have his hat and I have his wheel barrel and his old cook-stove. He gave me his old Home Comfort cook stove and you know, it's been 20 years and I still miss him I bet you do.

27:45 No towards the end of when I was working with our chief. He said he would do the same sort of thing. I can't remember if you had a lawn chair or what but but he would come out and he shout directions to me and then he go back in the shop and I never quite knew what he was doing in there. But I can remember his house. He wanted to put on this built-up roof, which is in a tar and gravel hours of tar and paper and then gravel on top of whole thing. So I'll be up there in the summer time with this big bucket of tar and a big mop, you know covered with tar from head to toe. You know, I finally climbed off that roof just feeling terrible and he'd come out of his shop all freshmen. Will you missed a spot Mary boy summary dolls is for all this hard labor didn't have anything to do with you decided to go back at to graduate school did it?

28:45 My late twenties when I was up on the roof and it was probably about 10 degrees out most of these little tiny nails to my Android the roof something and I thought you know, this is kind of cute when you're in your twenties, but when I'm 50, I don't want to be doing this and and maybe I should think of us a career a professional coronavirus out of had went back to school to graduate school and in historic preservation. So so the all of this experience after work for Archie, I work for a couple of other contractors and actually it was my experience in story where we I worked for George Wang, and we worked on a lot of older houses including yours and you know, I started discovering all those things about his historic houses in Old doors that have been covered up then I just found them really interesting and I realize there was this field called historic preservation where you could spend your career investigating

29:45 Old architecture and trying to preserve it. So that's that's what I ended up to him. But certainly my whole carpentry background has really served me. Well in this field. Yeah and really come full circle Health, but I don't have to get up on the roof anymore and I don't have to get covered with tar. And that's kind of a relief. That's lucky thing. Yeah, well.

30:08 Oh, yeah, I forgot makes me think about just those doors that we built in the sound of you know what Chris I mean, we actually built the doors like you were saying you built the windows when you in aren't you put that house together. We we built those doors from the ground up and used antlers for handles. And you know, so everything really was handmade in that and that sound a and

30:33 Well, I feel really lucky to have known such a grand Craftsman and I'm seeing a little bit of Revival and story with the stonemasons in the log work not enough. So I I guess I'm really hoping for

30:49 More more Carpenters to follow in indigenous architecture. Let's say something rememberable to Chris train the other people.

31:00 I don't know but not to other people who worked for him. Yeah, I really don't know when I work I said I work for Archie for two years and then I wouldn't work for some other contractors and I was so shocked when I when I switch jobs and I switched into the 20th century or late 20th century because aren't you didn't he didn't use a tape measure retractable tape measure. He used a folding Rule and he didn't use have a chalk box. He had a piece of chalk and some string and the string through the chalk and then and then you set it up and it make your lines. So I didn't you know, I thought I had nobody used to hand saw right so I thought I had all of these things wonderful skills, which I did. I hadn't wonderful skills, but it was amazing how much he had carried with him how much he hadn't changed since seen on the 1912.

32:00 He learned his trade. Yeah, and he just kept using those same old tools and didn't get distracted by any newfangled gadgets. And and so I had to kind of know there was a learning curve for me to do when I started working for a my next job. Yeah. Well you need to tape. Well, we sure were lucky to have known those old guys only think I maybe somebody will be talking about us like this someday. We only have 30 more years to go. It's a lot.

32:35 What would you if you could talk to both of them right now? What would you say to them?

32:44 Oh, yeah, you know, I'd like to know more about Archie's the first of all about his whole past because it sounds like Chris talked a lot about his his past experience aren't you was pretty laconic how he really didn't spend a lot of 50 told a few Tales. He told me that he got it his architecture degree through the mail correspondence course, which I thought I didn't quite believe but but I didn't know much about his whole experience to write, you know, he was living during World War 1 World War 2 end, you know, so I would have like to hear more about what it was like building. He was building in Laramie in the 1920s. And right now I'm doing up a survey as a national register historic district of this older neighborhood in there man. I wonder if he felt any of these houses sir, you know.

33:44 Very well could have been so I I wish I knew more it's it's just like my parents and I wish I'd asked him so many questions that I just didn't think to ask him at the time cuz I was much more interested in myself about you. Well, I mean same thing I'd I think I'd ask Chris more about who his who he apprenticed with. I never really knew how he learned the trade, but just that he that he did learn it and

34:10 You know talk more about when he was younger. Yeah, well, they would be

34:19 I don't know if there's you know any sort of yours or talking about this.

34:24 Interested in trades & Crafts and in there so little of that particular you're not in our country kind of craftsmanship and appreciation for craftsmanship. And I I just think they would today be so in a so out of place right time is money Mary hurry up and do all the soil in, Wyoming.

34:48 Make the money. Yeah, so

34:53 Can you talk a little bit you spoke how you guys met? But can you talk a little bit about your friendship? We were trying to remember actually exactly how we met when I was when I was working for Archie. I was living in this little town story and it was 20 miles from Sheridan where my job was and my car broke down and I actually had to have the engine rebuilt and the guy who is rebuilding me about six months to do it and consequently I had to hitchhike to and from work every day. O I thought you were just trying to get in shape by walking. That's a lot of people, you know wouldn't pick me up but that's how I met some of my friends and story like Mary hooker. She can't remember exactly how we met I think

35:53 Matt playing soccer when I first moved there in the seventies. I've been a practicing to be a Potter actually down in in Tucson and

36:03 I I moved I moved back up the story and I didn't really know how many people a butt insured and had this the soccer league and it turned out to be a great way to get to know all kinds of people. I met a lot of strong women and now actually people that come through and visit me today say wow, all you women in Wyoming a really strong, you know, so if there was a frayed of us or something you don't have worry about your nails getting broken and then we met playing soccer in July. We did we had we had a good time and then we cross country ski in the winter and before soccer was like everybody play cuz when I ever played we were known that before we were in our twenties, right and so yeah, we had that wonderful soccer team and then we had so much fun together that we started a volleyball team for the winter. And then we start a softball team for the summer end.

37:00 Yeah, so that's kind of how we we met and we both lived in story till I moved it went off to graduate school and 80-82 but it's interesting that that was just so actually just lived in the same Community were friends for 5 years, but it seems like we've just been good friends forever. Yeah. Yeah, we've kept it was connection time. I guess our lives to make really close friends and we became really close. Yeah, and so that's a wonderful lasting friendship.

37:40 Thank you.

37:42 So thank you for suggesting.