Alison Williams-Helm and Andy Helm

00:06 Hello, my name is Allison Williams town. I am 33 years old today is July 20th. 2008. I am in Denver Colorado with my husband Andy. I'm 32 years old. Today's still July 20th 2008 and we're still in Denver Colorado and I am Allison Williams Holmes husband.

00:38 Like ice but start with how we met. Why don't you tell me what you remember about us meeting? We had a common friends who served in Peace Corps the year after me who was your next door neighbor and he invited me to an outing with you and another one of his male friends.

01:02 What do you remember about it? I remember his male friend look like Bon Jovi. Where did you serve in Peace Corps in Romania. I served the first part of my service in a small town in Transylvania called blaz and then I moved to the northeast corner and a town called bucko.

01:25 You've been to Romania with me. That's where we had our honeymoon. When did you know that you wanted to marry me?

01:38 I feel bad that I think you knew first.

01:42 I thought you were too good to be true and I held back.

01:49 In fact, we have that conversation that we had on the way to the liquor store about getting married. I said to you that I wanted to have a baby and what did you say she ate it if we got married first and which point and this was great because we are on the way to the liquor store by the time we were there we had already been planning our wedding. So we got married on October 7th of 2006. Imma said 2007. I can't believe it's almost been 2 years.

02:25 And then we went on a honeymoon in March 2007.

02:33 Went to Italy.

02:36 And Romania

02:38 And then back to Italy.

02:43 And when we came back

02:45 We're expecting a baby. Remember when we found out we were expecting a baby.

02:51 I don't remember exactly it seemed like it was about a week of kind of are We or aren't we?

02:58 What do you remember about it but I remember you refuse to take a pregnancy test because you didn't actually want to know.

03:06 Scared

03:09 When did you first realize her and better yet? What was the thought process that made? You start thinking about wanting a home birth? I

03:24 Yeah, cuz I was I think I was two or three months pregnant and I happened to look over a woman on the buses shoulder and she was reading spiritual Midwifery and I had already started reading some books about pregnancy and I'd kind of always thought she was interesting and that was a perfect segue into starting a conversation with her and I ended up talking to her the next two trips because she was moving away to Seattle.

03:52 At the end of that week that I started talking to her actually, so it was fortuitous timing and she started telling me about home birth and her experience and she recommended to books to me. She recommended Ina May Gaskin guide to natural childbirth. And also what was the name of the book that we use for the birth class birthing from within and so I read animes books first and then I read birthing from within and by the time I got to birthing from within I knew that I wanted to do it at home, but I wasn't sure if you would be on board.

04:30 How was it that you got me on board?

04:33 Well, I started reading some of the book to you and telling you about my feelings even though I was really nervous that you're going to mix it. And then we had agreed early on even before we thought about home birth to enlist the help of a doula and so I did a bunch of research about doulas and finally found one that I wanted to interview and I told her before we met her that I wanted her to help me get you on board, even though she was a stranger and so are his name is Angela and at the first meeting she had had three home verse one was her son and the other one was twins, which is really rare and she talked about her experience and said that it didn't matter what kind of birth that we had. She would support us either way, but she thinks

05:25 She thought that it would be a good idea for us to look into it and see if we were interested Tipping Point of what put me into is it for a visit to the doctor ultrasound about that.

05:50 Yeah, okay for the 20-week ultrasound we're adamant about not wanting to know what we were having sex twice for the baby and went through the ultrasound everything looked good. It was a lot of fun cuz we got to see the heart beating and remember we we walked away with the picture of his tiny little foot eyes are favorite ultrasound picture and then a couple of days later. I was at work and you called me and you were crying and said that the

06:28 Physician's assistant at the nurse assistant had called you from the doctor's office.

06:34 And said that there was something wrong and that they the baby had a choroid plexus cyst and its brain stem brain.

06:46 And that she thought it meant that the baby was going to be Downs while she said Downs first I said, okay, are you okay? And you said I don't know and then you called me back a couple seconds later. The woman had said that the geneticist would be calling us and then she called back a few minutes later while we were still on the phone you hung up so you can talk with her and then you called back and you were frantic at that point because she said oh, I'm sorry. I was wrong. It wasn't Down syndrome Trisomy 18 or 13, which is fatal. You are freaking out and I said, okay, I'll be right there.

07:27 I told my boss I would be leaving for the day and went and got you and we got home and start doing some research and by the time the geneticist called we found out that choroid plexus cysts are completely normal. What baby is fine afternoon to my location to tell you everything or I forget that terminology, but she did it in a very poor way of geneticist said was well now she has to tell you because we put all your charts online if you were to look at it. So anyhow that evening at all about this whole thing is I don't trust them at all. Let's have it here.

08:26 Fun, we are pretty much on board. But we are thinking we do kind of half-and-half and at that point it was like, nope. We're not going to go back and we're going to stick with the Midwife. Her name is Julie and she's going to do all of our prenatal and deliver the baby and the first 6 weeks of postnatal.

08:47 So he started seeing her regularly once a month. We were at 41 weeks. Were you scared leading up to save the last month or two?

09:09 No, and I have a feeling other women would sympathize with this. I was so big and so uncomfortable and I've been waiting for so long but they're kind of goes out the window. I think I fixed a lot on being afraid of delivering a baby in the very beginning and the very beginning but at the end you don't even focus on that anymore because you have to put some at the preparation into this little person joining your life and you just really anxious

09:37 Remember the first time we thought you were in labor, but I called into work and I got mad and told you to leave me alone and go to work cuz I was hovering those were contractions that was a tightening of my belly. And that was about it that wasn't contractions but we were at more than 40 weeks by then where we are pretty lit outfits. Yeah, we were really ready at that point and we really wanted to have him on Christmas and we just really anxious. So January 5th, I woke up at night and I started crying and I just looked miserable. I I said I can't take this another day. I can't take this and I just cried.

10:21 And what did you do? Let's go to the mall and Walk and Walk and Walk until a baby drops out food right through all the stuff you swipe you do. Yeah.

10:38 So that evening while we went for a walk and we walked around the mall cuz it was cold air called we walk to the mall and then we came home and we were making their we made dinner.

11:01 And it was 7:30.

11:08 We had already eaten dinner. We're talking about playing Scrabble. And remember we're sitting at the table and all the sudden. I felt a really sharp kind of snap almost not painfully sharp, but just really kind of loud and a sump is what I called it. Didn't I George we call the baby George and you draw Lisa Trish did something really strange against my cervix in my water has broke which was really strange for us because Julie had said that you know on TV, everybody's water breaks and then they go into labor instead. It's actually really rare that your water breaks.

11:45 So we sat there for five or 10 minutes and just forget e with excitement you remember I kind of started getting scared at that point that this was really it even though I'd really wanted at this is really at so I took a shower.

12:03 And what did you do? I called Julie by Kyle Julie. I called Angela first The Duel the first said not that'd make it come over now, but the water has broke and we've had some contractions, but nothing nothing big yet. So but be on alert and then I called Julie and told her the same thing. She said okay, and they were both very lackadaisical about it because water breaks and I can take another 18 hours, and they said get all geared up because you could be in labor a long time and then did I call Kate or did you

12:47 She wanted to come over right away. But again, we thought it would be a really long process. And so I told her why don't I call you back in an hour and during that time your contractions my from 7 minutes apart to 5 minutes apart to 3 minutes apart that up really fast. And so I called kait's maybe 40 minutes later and said can you come over now? And she said yeah, I'll be right there and during the time that we are waiting for her to come over was when you inflated the birth top remember and we live in an old house was built in 1929 and you were really worried that the weight of the water was going to make me and the baby and all the water pushed to the floor.

13:29 Well, it was the the big size birth Tubman's online. It even said that if you were to be concerned about having five or six football players stand in the corner in the corner of the room, we should be concerned about the floor and I was thinking well, yeah.

13:50 Not not only for the wait, but why would I have five or six football players in the house? And we had and you were laying in the empty inflated birth typing we are trying to decide what to do. When is funny that we deliberate about it for so long? Because it was just going to be an option for me like picturing myself giving birth was on a birth stool in the bedroom on the floor. I did and had no idea. I would ultimately deliver Elliott into the water. So he still and I knew I needed my strength and so she did some points for nausea most helps. You better fill up the tub. I want to get in the water. So I started filling up the tub and we ran out of hot water when there was a good answer to of water in the tub.

14:45 So Kate suck on her secondary duty of water girl and she was at the pots and pans on the stove boiling water and then dumping him in and we would throws must called water with the hose as we could. And yeah, and I called Julie and I had called Angela and said that better come over this baby's coming quickly. What time is that? Do you think I called them? I think it was okay got there about 10 and I think it was 10:30 that I called Julian Angela and Julie said she was on her way out the door and Angela said I'll be there. I think the last strong memories I have are.

15:26 Leaving the bedroom and going into the bathroom with you and then coming out of the bathroom and saying I need to get into the tub. I barely remember when she came I remember that she just spoke to me really gently and she walked up cuz I was on my hands and knees in the water and she walked up and she said and it was Howlin For You and Mana for my ears. I just remember being so happy to see her and she was speaking to me so gently and I just remember being glad that she was there.

16:05 She asked me how you were feeling and you still remember what you said? I think I need to push I think is what I said and her eyes were as big as dinner plates and she looked at me and she melt.

16:19 Ran and got all of her equipment. She was pulling out oxygen and getting as much out of the bag of she could so just keep breathing honey. Just keep breathing and frantically unpacking stuff behind you at any point even before Julie came where you regretting deciding to do it at home after we met. I was so comfortable there as soon as your water broke. I was incredibly happy that we decide to do it in the hospital because we don't have to go anywhere and I just kind of felt that everything would be okay.

16:54 So

16:56 You were on your hands and knees in the tub and we were continuing to put more and more water. And because we we have gotten a good seven or eight in in at that point. Now we have more I could have say it was maybe 12 to 13 and my memory is just that it was full but I don't remember clearly obviously you remember but you got to touch his head. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I thought about doing it before but it's weird how you get kind of

17:28 Weird about your body even in that kind of a situation. I mean there I am with good friends and people that we know but I'm basically naked about to deliver my first child and I'm squeamish about touching his head that Julie gave you and she looked you right in the ice that you have to look me in the eye and so you you looked up and you were totally in labor land at that point you were so far away and she said you've done a really good job of breathing this baby down.

18:06 And you can continue to breathe this baby down in the baby will come and it will be fine. But that's going to be another four or five hours of this or you can do two or three really good pushes and you can be done in 10 minutes. It was about 12:15. I knew you looked in your tears in your eyes. You said I want to push but I'm scared and she said you'll be fine. You're not going to tear into you're not going to hurt yourself and not going to hurt the baby. You just need to Bear down and push.

18:38 I need that. We afraid that that I was going to tear like crazy cuz as soon as he was in the birth canal, I could really feel his head and it was burning like people say

18:50 He would kind of go down and then received a little bit and then go down and received a little bit and that was your breathing about yeah.

18:59 And then so you bore down and you did two or three good bushes in like 5 minutes of each other cuz my memory is that they were really close together. Yeah, 2 minutes apart at that point you're you or seem to be just contraction solidly.

19:18 I think came out when you grab them what Julie had him first, right? And she grabbed him and pushed him in between my legs and said Alice and grab him.

19:30 I don't even know if she used him because she said grab the baby or something like that cuz it was important for us to discover his gender or his sex. So I pick him up. And the first thing I haven't even though I

19:45 I guess I hadn't planned other things that I thought I would say something different. The first thing I said was it's a little

19:52 And it took me like 3 days to get used to it, even though we didn't know what he was I had convinced myself. It was a girl and so it was a chance.

20:05 To get used to it, but thrilling. I mean, I think what I remember about first seeing him with it, he had a really big blue eyes and he was staring intently at me and it scared me a little bit because I kept thinking in the back of my mind. He looks familiar to me. He looks like somebody I know or and it was kind of tripping me out because here's this little baby and he's staring at me like a grown up person. It scared me a little bit about them up and put them to your chest. He was actually he was kind of pushing his alarms out. So it looked like he was throwing punches.

20:53 So when did you touch him?

20:55 I

20:58 Custom shortly after you did

21:02 You are not still holding him to his to your chest. And sexually the very first baby picture we have of his has me leaning down and I had my

21:12 Had my hand on his kind of on the back of this tiny little head which turned out to be not so tiny. I remember how big Julie thought he was before he was born.

21:25 Is that what she said?

21:29 And how big was he 959 15 with how big is his head?

21:39 I can't remember the circumference. What was a 18in AR-15 and I think it was 15 and I'm not sure he's a big boy. Yeah, he is building.

21:52 So so you were still in the top at that point and then he well actually said that we need to get you out of the tub because it was time for you to deliver your placenta. And you were shivering. I was really cold, but I was also really fatigued.

22:14 So you guys had that actually I was holding Elliot and you guys had to lift me out of the tub.

22:20 Yeah, cuz you were shaking so bad. You couldn't walk. So we left a deer out and push on the dining room floor and then look at 4 minutes 5 minutes at 10 to take Mom on the placenta came out and then we bagged it because we wanted to let it do the transfusion of blood into Elliott. I walked around the house and I gave him a tour.

22:55 Dim the living room. I talked about the couch. We looked outside I explain to him that we couldn't go outside yet. So far too cold for his tiny little body cat was he wearing a blanket?

23:12 And I wish that you were his eyes open quiet then cried wash me the whole time. I was about the Magic Dragon over and over over over.

23:25 And he liked it into thank you still trying to figure out exactly what was going on.

23:34 I probably couldn't see much more than six inches in front of his face.

23:39 So different now from Droid was taking care of you making sure you were okay, and you will find

23:46 You should talk about when Julie last how you felt scared.

23:51 Loan, did you regretted that point having at home the same way leaving the hospital babies in the hospital? They're number one complaint is after the baby has come the nurses wake them up every 20 minutes. You never do you don't get to sleep. You don't get to just be with your baby. The nurses are coming in every 20 minutes to make sure everything's okay. Yeah, we're as we hung out till 4 in the morning 3:34 in the morning 48, I think even though you guys at 12:49. I think we lost a minute or two there when he was first BoRics. We are so thrilled with real forgot to look at the clock. It was 12:49.

24:44 But once she laughed we got to just go to bed. I don't think we slept very long though, cuz she left at 4 and we are at 7, right and then we waited a couple of hours and you called my mom and talk about that conversation. Well, you remember we neither one of us told our families and we are having a homebirth cuz we didn't want them to worry. So then we came to having to call the families that morning and tell them that we had had. In fact been lying to them for 7 months weird. Every time I say Where Are you delivering and we would say Jose has like they knew because they kept asking when you're going to call us when you have the baby. How are you getting to the hospital and we can come when you're in labor, right? No, that's not going to happen. So I called your mom first.

25:42 I'm sad High gringa Dairy. Do you have a beautiful grandson? His name is Elliot and she said oh, where are you? And I said well we're at home and she was silent for a few minutes. I said well or for a few seconds when I said well, you know that the whole Hospital thing was kind of a ruse and we we had him at home and he's doing fine and Allison's doing fine and you should come over a little bit later and meet your grandson.

26:16 And she was just very very quiet which turned out to be the identical reaction. I got from my mother.

26:24 Is this the dead silent on the other the other line? I think I'm judging from the conversations we've had since then it came from not understanding it. I think both of our families thought we were both. I don't know try to rebell one last time maybe yeah, but they didn't understand why we couldn't go to the various my great friend from Peace Corps and she got ordained online. So we started to the non-traditional route, but I think that this is the only time I'm going to editorialize during our interview, but that Americans have this idea about how birth should happen and that the only safe place to have a baby is in the hospital and I just don't think that's true. I think you can have as long as you don't have a complicated pregnancy and nothing major have

27:24 While you're actually in labor, I think it's equally as safe. Maybe sometimes a little bit safer to have your baby at home this week. So sorry for having delivered Elliot at home. I think it really helped me to have a short labor. I think it helped me to really focus on the work that I had ahead of me without a lot of distraction of strangers coming in the room and being in a foreign environment than having a doctor deliver him that we never met before and I got to be on my hands and knees I got to do what I wanted. I ate dinner I drank water I had juice I could have had a cookie if I'd want it because we were at home and that was really important to me.

28:12 Because he might be the only child that we have. Our cells are only naturally born child and I really wanted it to be the experience that I'd envisioned. It was I mean, it's the most powerful thing that's ever happened to me. I think so far.

28:33 I was going to ask you if we're done with talking about the birth.

28:40 How is being a parent changed you?

28:44 You know, I think that's a hard question because I'm sure that the people looking at me from the outside see changes in me, but I internally being a parent has become so natural that was that surprising to you how natural it would feel and

29:03 Yeah, how how easy it came but he was just my son a child and this is what we need to do and we're going to eat like this we're going to do this and this is how we take care of baby in a way that I think it was I think there was a subtle shift of priorities in my in my head example. Well, for example that you know everything at that point no longer became well water we going to do it was it was how is this going to affect Elliott?

29:40 Elba as far as career choices go and things like that. How am I going to

29:47 Provide for my family or continue to provide for my son on what can I do to make sure he has the life. I want him to have why didn't that Vision you have for him? Well, I don't know exactly what the vision I have for him is I know that I really want him to have a whole family. That was what do you mean obviously something I grew up without something now my my dad left when I was 11, he's still around but my parents got divorced and that's something I'd I really don't want for my for my child.

30:29 2

30:32 I have a broken family even if he were to stay close, but that's something very important to me that he has a whole family that he would learn good values anyone takes work and you have to work hard at things but at the same time, I don't want to be too hard on him to to make sure I want to make sure he has as many opportunities as you can we we've talked about college before we would like to have him be able to go to college loans what we've become just be a student full around here. He needs to work for it good things come through work.

31:18 What about you? How is being a parent changed you?

31:23 I think in more ways that I then I probably could articulate I think it's a very organic. Like I said earlier Primal kind of thing that comes over you, you know people tell you that it's different when it's your own kid, and it's really really true. I mean, I think

31:40 Most people love children and their the way that you are with children, but when it's your own

31:47 I would do anything for that kids and my heart just sores when I see him. I just really

31:56 Consider him first actually making decisions and I don't even in my Monday in life. I stay home with him and plan to stay home with him for a year or two until we can get him into some kind of really groovy preschool or non-traditional probably. Yeah.

32:16 But even in my Monday and decisions, he eats breakfast first, and there's just things that we do together and he's foremost in my mind. I think it's it's made me a better person. Actually. I've always been interested in people and started analyzing people and figuring them out and trying to connect them to things that they're interested in other people and just with him. It's that to a thousand degrees. He just dissed really really special to me.

32:54 What do you think he's doing right now. Do you think he's screaming at Grandma and Grandpa's house?

33:06 What do you hope that he says he's able to say about both of you when he gets older.

33:12 That's a really good question.

33:17 I hope that he says that.

33:21 We did the best that we could and that he

33:26 I guess for me. I don't want to be an overbearing mother. I don't want to be such a nitpicker and you know, just really I want to and I try to be this way with him as a baby. Just let other people hold him let other people interact with him have other people spend time with him because he needs that interaction. He needs to know what the world is like and to get little bits of who she is from other people.

33:52 I would hope that he would grow up and be able to say, you know life doesn't come with an owner's manual, but my parents gave me the tools I needed but I didn't need an owner's manual. They they taught me the values that made me into a good man and hopefully someday adad himself if you want to be a dad, but just just the tools to be successful.

34:30 Do you have anything that you?

34:33 But you'd like to stay.

34:37 Question to do you have something you know, I don't know.

34:42 And I always think questions like that are kind of funny because with him I'd I tell him everything has I think it but it's nice to hear about when he was born and I was he becomes a teenager and he becomes probably rebellious and Surly is most teenage boys do even though we probably won't stay too much. I hope that he knows he's loved ya.

35:10 I think that's a true. I don't know. I want to think of something cool to say to him about like in the future, you know.

35:19 I mean, it seems so generic to say Elliott. I I just hope that you can wear whatever you want juror or think about him going off to college. For example, what advice when I give him I guess I would say be a good person always think about how you would feel and the other person's shoes before you do something. Think about how the person you're doing it too would feel and that's a good way to live your life makes you Kinder. I think I'm going to have a natural Talent OR Elliott. You're going to have a natural talent for empathy to really know exactly what people are feeling while things are happening. Cuz that happens even now there's a baby a baby crying anywhere in the room and he pouts and starts to cry.

36:24 I'm done. If you're done. Yeah, I can't think of anything else we can wrap it up.