Dov Siporin and Steve Siporin

Recorded April 4, 2009 Archived April 4, 2009 49:41 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: MBY005252

Description

Steve interviews his son Dov about his experience with cancer.

Subject Log / Time Code

It has been an amazing year. Steve wishes Dov didn’t have cancer, but it has brought out the best in him.
In Jan of 2008 Dov woke up having passed a lot of blood. It turned out to be stage 4 colon cancer.
“If you make fun of something it loses the power to scare you.”
Dov realized he would spend a lot of time bare butted in the hospital.
Dov’s wife wrote quotes on his butt to have fun with the nurses. “Does this radiation make my butt look big?”
The oncologist didn’t know what to do with him. He drew hearts on his butt on valentine’s day.
Dov’s son Matton has started using chemo as an excuse to not eat his vegetables.
Most cancer patients look depressed. Dov did long distance running to give himself something to do other than sitting and being infused w/ poisons.
Dov decided to wear a red thong to his last day of radiation. He had lots of fun shopping for a thong with his parents in Victoria’s Secret.
“The fact that we die makes life sweet.”

Participants

  • Dov Siporin
  • Steve Siporin

Transcript

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00:06 Hi, I'm Steve saporin. I'm 62 years old today is April 4th 2009. Where in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I'm interviewing my son.

00:20 My name is stove saporin. I'm 34 years old today is April 4th, 2009 and Salt Lake City and I'm being interviewed by my father.

00:31 Cay

00:34 Well, this is unusual, you know.

00:38 Before we got started. I looked at the questions on the website. Not that I really needed to have questions, but I was curious to see what the suggested questions were and they were good questions, but it was interesting that the sum of the categories were interviewing friends interviewing parents interviewing grandparents. There wasn't interviewing your children. So I'm I'm sure it's been done before but we must be a little bit unusual in that circumstance and I kind of like that if it's well Hidden Glen usual anyways true, you know, there's some there's some heavy things. I want to talk about it some point and I don't want to completely run this interview either 50/50 deal.

01:26 But one of the things that I thought about was

01:30 You've got an unusual name. I'm one of the people that gave it to you and I wonder how the name Dove has affected you and your life and what you think. Well, I think probably one of the best answers to that is to look at I think how I name my children.

01:52 Matan and Sienna and so they have relatively unusual names to I think it's something I mean, I know I remember a little bit that in elementary school in Idaho in an in Boise at the end Middle School. It's it definitely set me apart and there are times where I think it probably frustrated me but in the end I enjoy it. I think the toughest thing about it now, is that everybody remembers my name and I don't remember anybody else, but I think I've really liked having having something that's different having something that's unique and set me apart. I think it's it's helped me develop that that side of me that that enjoys being an acre being set apart.

02:39 You know, it's it's obviously a traditional Jewish name, although it wasn't a traditional name in our family. And of course, it means bear and of course you were

02:51 2 months premature when you were born, and I think we wanted to give you some kind of a

02:58 Power symbol of some kind of something to help you and your your struggle which is later in life to I do have to say regarding name. I know for a while. I was jealous of Love's Name by varia cuz it's hard to the lion. Goodnight. I think it's served me. Well, even when people call you down instead of dawn Dove door Jo-Jo I get a lot Dan. It's amazing that people don't seem to be able to

03:36 Realize they like people out to al-sayed stove like they open the water will go. Okay Dave except that that's actually a name.

03:51 Can you can you recall any things that happen when you're growing up their moments that you especially recall. Things that we did together things that you did with your brothers things that happened there any that jump out there's tons of them first ones that come to mind, I guess for 11. I a lot of growing up Canyon in Logan and spending those days hiking cross-country sort of backup to Canyon both left and I'm going down jumping on the ice down at first Dam and you're not drowning every night coming close to me close and rescuing each other actually mean because that did happen a couple times are we jumping pound through the ice and then one of us would have to pull the other one out, but it was a real strong time for both of us for both of us there then earlier on

04:46 It's a little more in a fragmented but you know the house and in Boise and with love warming Cheerios on the radiator, you know or coming out and you guys and put on the TV will sign that says watch me every once in awhile, you know, cuz we wouldn't watch you know, we're not supposed to watch TV that much but everyone's what type of sign that says watch me on their the farm in Maxwell throwing playing out in the fields there and walking down a little Thunder and playing there a little bit in Italy and Venice walking along the canals there that I remember real strong and being out in the field of poppies there with the whole class. What's your oldest memory in point that?

05:36 Vegas earliest

05:41 I don't know. There's there's some very steak are so I don't remember if it's if it's before or after we came back from Italy. My guess is probably after my guess. My earliest sort of solid members is there in Italy Pokemon in the smell is actually the smells of Italy when I go back that connects a lot. You don't remember the food at the daycare in the discussions about about school reform. We're always reforming the meals to make in the better right now, but I think it's the smells and the sounds of the boats in the water on the canal to block a lawn mower here in the creaking and then when when I went back there later on and in college and we got on the what is the water taxis, that was it. It was visceral the feeling of stepping on it and hearing the

06:41 Creek of the wood in the lap of the water against it and just the smells and everything that that called back a lot. I think I remember riding on those a lot when I was when I was young you were in on it every day when he took you to the the daycare the Zillo you wrote on and everything. You always loved that and I was always Chris very nervous that somehow you were going to fall in love the water. So he's holding on to you cuz you were only four years old remember leaning over and watching the water watching a squirrel and then I'll head move away.

07:13 What would what was the most traumatic thing in growing up? Can you think of what when was on one of our moon many movies was it probably right off if I go to one thing is probably the move from Boise to Logan and you were how old then I ever lose. Hope or my bar mitzvah. So I must have been he was like a year or so before my permit to says 11 maybe 11:00 because I moved and then came into what a 5th grader 6th grade. It's running like that. I think it was because we lived the longest.

07:49 There seems like we've always lived in voice. Yeah. Well, I mean we had some close friends Jasmine and Elijah Aaron and I was pretty close with Jasmine and with the Rachel Brodsky and and that felt like the first time I was really losing a lot of something when we moved what was your reception in and Logan life? I mean Wii remote moving from let's are relatively heterogeneous culture to a very homogeneous culture in some ways. And now do you remember when I grow but the payouts and in nests in ringlets and had a real rough time at school there a real I was going to boy and stuff like that and actually got his gun into a fight or two in elementary school override.

08:49 The bombing of the synagogue in Boise. So there was a I guess I had issues with religion from you know from that trying to find myself and and how I found myself and my Jewish identity there and then coming to Logan it was it was really awkward cuz we were at it would be understandable. If you would if you resented us for putting you in that position of always being almost the only Jews and I swear in February 02 very few. I mean did you did you ever say well?

09:33 Are my parents doing it move to New York? Not really because the only place that we had any sort of Jewish congregation was in Boise. So, you know, I I felt some connection to it there, but my my identity as a Jew was really formed more by a family sense of religion. So my sense of the religion as a whole was really in the context of a family not in the context of a congregation. I felt it most I think understanding the difference when I went to Israel.

10:12 And that was some of these some of the issues that I had there in Israel is realizing that that Judaism in a lot of ways was like any religion and it had you know people that were good in people that were bad and people that you know felt certain ways about it and stuff in the end. That was a rough realization for me surprisingly enough because I had a real rough time with it there in Israel.

10:35 It sounds like I don't want to put words in your mouth. That sounds like the family Dimension was the more positive. When oh, yeah, definitely. What did we do? That was good kiss me. So I think probably one of the strong connection that I had with it is is

11:04 Going out and being out in nature with religion. I got it. For some reason. I had those connected like thinking about Yom, Kippur and stuff and see about going on Hikes before it and having that a lot when the Passover seder to me is really that's a real key part of it and and that being around together discussing and talking about it.

11:29 Good being at home.

11:31 Good being in your actions and and how you carry yourself in life and not necessarily in certain rules and it being more of an approach to an approach to life in a questioning approach to life. I think then then following this role in this role in this role.

11:51 So what happened? Tell us a little bit more about your experience in Israel. Then you are let's eat right out of high school taking time off before going to college and I I've always I'll say right now front that I've always felt a little bit guilty or ambivalent towards myself because I felt like I was in courage in you to go but then I looking back I think maybe I was pushing you to go and you were

12:24 I don't know how much you were resisting or felt intimidated and then maybe if that affected your experience to so tell me about that when I think back about that time. I mean, I think I definitely felt pushed a bit to go. I was also I mean I was 17 18 and so is everything I mean, I was whole bunch of different emotions going back and forth about everything and I was excited cuz you guys were going to Portugal and I remember sitting downstairs and listen to The Doors Spanish Caravan thinking about all you know, I'm going to go with them and then, you know kind of choosing to go to Israel and kind of it it was I think the Warren between wanting to still be the kid in part of the family and wanting to be with my friends and feeling separate from my friends because it was also very apparent with a lot of them that a lot of them were going on missions and stuff and and we're becoming part of

13:24 And an LDS. Yeah. Yeah. I know that something that's was real separate from me and you know, so trying to find myself in that and so partially choosing and then then part feeling like what I was going to Israel and if you were pushing me to go to his role that you guys didn't really want me there with the rest of the family. And so I mean, I think there's no there's blame enough to go around I guess or whatever but I think that it was a it was a really rough experience in a lot of ways and a really good experience. It was definitely one of

13:59 One of the biggest experiences that let me know a that I could deal with stuff on my own. I could handle things on my own.

14:09 And I think it gave me some of that core of strength that would allow me to go out and do stuff on my own do whatever I needed to and realized that I had the the emotional Reserve to do to be able to handle that.

14:23 And you did go back to Israel years later. I think one of the rooms yeah. Yeah, I went back and I traveled around from December of 1999 through the middle of January 29th, 2000 could be there for the change of the of the new year, which is really interesting. It was a man that was interesting. I was on on the Temple Mount but what's that? He'll that's right outside of Olives there. I was there, Did you think the Messiah was going to be there? A lot of people there's a lot of really crazy people in American. I was told repeatedly to not to go out on those days. We were told that we were targets.

15:15 Mand but Jerusalem with a buzz and it had so many different news people there and you know from every different network all over the world there.

15:25 And that was interesting I think for me personally when I most important moments there their they're two of them that really really clear one was as I walked back through where I'd been, you know. 8 years earlier right after high school.

15:42 And I saw walking through the Red Sea the ghost of myself before walking through there and myself it was extremely depressed and wondering what was going to happen and everything inside of these moments as I try to you know, Trey you tried to tell your younger self stuff like you're going to make it through if you're going to be okay, but it was it was interesting.

16:06 And then the other one was when I was hanging out in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve. I walked over there with Christmas Eve is middle of Ramadan and it was on that. She bought and I walked I walked from Jerusalem over to Bethlehem like through the checkpoints there and everything and Arafat was supposed to speak that night and in that square in Bethlehem, and I went there and as we sat and listened to their bunch of various bands from all over playing play music data a southern gospel group play Go Tell It on the Mountain which is amazing. It was really need but I played peekaboo with this kid in front of me and he was he was so both Palestinian kid and his family was there and we did a kind of off and on throughout the night and then they bought coffee from a person that would wander around and sell coffee and and they bought some for me and for some of the other people that were sitting right around me cuz we're all kind of talking.

17:06 And then at one point the kids started playing with me and looking out and you could go by and make gun motions with his hands and he was saying something and he didn't speak any English his parents and speaking English with his older sister spoke song. And so I asked her and I said, hey, you know, what's he saying? He said? Oh, well he's saying when he gets older he wants to kill Jews just like his daddy.

17:28 And it was this ere was a real real moment there. I thought it's amazing that right. Now we're two people and we're fine. We're fine. You have the parents love me cuz I was playing with her kids and and and other kids thought I was great. It was fine. And that this this one bit of knowledge or whatever one thing about me. They didn't know within could totally change the relationship like that.

17:52 Mabel's seemed kind of superficial compared to the human interaction. But then you realize it's you can't how do you get rid of it of you erase why I think that was that was one of the points where I really I guess.

18:10 My approaches as far as dealing with people and trying to see past those are trying to not

18:16 Believing that people could get past them if they could just deal with each other on a one by one that really helped underline that saying that if people can know each other and talk with each other there's common ground to work with.

18:29 Well runs deep

18:34 So many things but one thing I wanted to talk about I didn't want this interview to be all of this. Thank you know what we're coming to have an idea of the last sigh 15 months of your life. I mean the most recent Specter of death hangs over all this. We're making this interview not because you're going to die soon but because we're going to have stories recorded that we won't remember years from now when we talk I think this has been an amazing year. I mean, I wish you didn't have cancer but you've really

19:24 It's brought out the best in you.

19:30 Tell us about how

19:32 Sum it up how you found out and and some of the things that the way you reacted and and you don't both the good in the bad and what's happened in the end. Well, okay, so beginning of January 2008 woke up one morning went to the bathroom. I felt kind of weird and realize that I that I passed a bunch of blood whole bunch of blood and that's really scare me real bright bright blood and so I called into the color to the hospital and made an appointment to see someone and said what I what I thought was the most embarrassing thing, you know, if my whole life and I feel that point maybe it was hot and it wasn't due to any recreational recent.

20:25 We're going to need fun reason then that it happened and went over to the university to the university hospital. They looked at me. They were very very sure that it wasn't anything serious. They thought it was just like a hemorrhoid or something and but they set up a scope procedure and I talked with a scope doctor in the scope said he said Dad's probably not anything, but we'll do this just to be safe. And of course, you know, no turned out to be stage 4 colon cancer.

20:57 How I dealt with it, it's it's on most of it for.

21:05 The biggest we have had him dealing with it is been with with dark humor. I think, you know her with making fun of it and I really believe that

21:16 The reason behind that is

21:19 That if you talk about something if you make fun of it, if you make light of something it loses some of the power to scare you you take away some of that fear. It's like in the

21:32 In the movie is what it's always always a monster that you don't see it's always it's always something that people won't talk about it. Whatever. That's the scariest thing. And once you bring it out into the light once you talk about and you really look at it, it has to lose some of that power. So that's what I've done most of the time try to find different ways to do that try to find different ways not to let it

21:56 Not to let it run my life. So to go out like like snowboarding during chemo, you know taking the pump up there and snowboarding bike riding the quotes on my ass during radiation wearing. It takes a little bit. I think that's worthy of a couple of moments of some of the things besides about the situation that you're in radiation for colorectal cancer, the third graders that I talked about this absolutely loved it. So one of the things they did with mine as stated, they wanted to hit me with radiation preoperative radiation and chemotherapy to try to shrink the tumor so that when I went in operated it was it was easier to cut out razors cut out the sections of me. So first they do with gold mapping.

22:43 Which they take you in lay you down and they want to get a really good look at the area. They're going to radiate so that they can they have the least amount of area that they're overlapping with radiation. I was getting for 6 weeks. I was getting 50,000 basically 50000 chest x-rays worth of radiation. So a lot and enough so that in 20 years if I'm still alive, I'll get a different kind of cancer from that radiation.

23:11 But so with the location of it they had to for a normal cats. Can you drink barium or you getting injection intravenous injection of dye that they do to take a look at all the vessels and everything for this they had to put the dye right in the end there a little and escort die up in there and then run me back and forth through a cat-scan machine so I go walking in there and this is you know, it's really nerve-racking. It's a couple days after I found out that I have cancer still dealing with that and I go in there for young nurses there.

23:52 I'm relatively attractive young man. This is what I have to deal with beautiful. And so they said that they said okay. So we need to give you the died and I said, oh that's what we drinking barium and they said they give each other is really unsure looks and I know and I knew what they had to do, but not making light of the situation and then and they said no and you're going to do the injection the arm. Okay. Alright I said no and then I got to wait a minute. You're not going to know wanted to do that. And so they didn't it's awkward because you're lying in there and they've got people coming in and out of the room left and right doctor's coming in some doctor at some point came in and patted my leg and said that you're doing okay. How are you? What am I being in a teaching Hospital?

24:52 But aunt and so I figured at that point I realized okay now I'm going in and I'm you have to lie. You have to lie face-down you wearing a gown to take the Gown open? They gave me tattoos on my right side my left my right left hip so you could line up the lasers in the room would actually give me the radiation because nobody else can be in there cuz there's so much radiation. It's all automatically done and I realized I was going to be in this position there but for strange people every day for the next six weeks is a shopping with radiation and I knew that the radiation and especially since I was on 24/7 chemo at the time the chemo would make me feel sick all the time. They didn't know if it made my hair fall out or not at that point. They knew that it would cause a lot of digestion issues would probably give me diarrhea and you just make me feel horrible.

25:44 Then when I talk to them about radiation there like other radiation it's going to give you diarrhea and it's going to burn you both internally and externally and so it to me I was I mean was comical by that time that I think it's going to burn me right in the area where the diarrhea is getting like really this is what years and years of medical research has gotten us so I knew it was going to be incredibly painful experience and so and an embarrassing experience. So I had to try to come up with something some funny way of dealing with it some way to make it lighter for myself. And for the people that were there were doing this cuz I figured radiation tax or radiation therapist is going to be rough for them to because they're always seeing people that are if the worst point of their lives right at that point knowing that they might die people that are sick that are feeling horrible and stuff like that and they're the ones that have to do I have to do and have to do it. Yeah.

26:40 So the first day that I went in for the radiation therapy. I took some aluminum foil and a jockstrap that made a cup out of the aluminum foil and I walked in there and my gown and I like okay now can you come over and lay here and I said just a minute and I just looked at my gown up I said, hey, I'm protecting my boys and the look on the radiation therapist face was surprised that looks like mouse droppings goes if you can't do that aluminum foil and radiation not good and then female radiation therapist walked in the room looked at my gown in the look on her face in the right as I'm doing this as I don't know. I'm getting this, you know, the exhibitionist radiation, right? I walked up there with no pants on which was great another great sense of power walking through a building with no pants on and nobody willing to me, but then from then on that side that the first and I was trying to think of

27:40 Thanks, and that's when he started thinking, you know, the second I did the smiley face on my butt. And then I did quotes of the day everyday enough for most of it, you know, does this radiation make my butt look big? I hope they pay you. Well, I did one of the great ones was you know, the light bulbs were looks like a light bulb and you just hold the bottom light bulb in lights up. I wouldn't I stuck the light bulb just between my cheek and it turned around and I said, hey, I think my colon had a good idea.

28:14 And it was dark humor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah it is because the realization realization was really present through it all that, you know, I might I might be dying. I might die real soon and and that realization is there every time I mean every time I go in before I went in for the last pet scan just 3 days ago or no yesterday. Yeah. Yeah yesterday I went in and got that scan done and I won't find out who knows for a long if I have a bunch more tumors or not.

28:46 And so it got me balances in there times where I'll go out and I'll let you know. I'll let it hit me let it let it take over and and you know cry or because you know, let it out punch things. Whatever.

28:59 How did the people in the radiation room react the nurses in the technicians in the doctors and nurses and the technicians love. They thought it was the funniest thing in the world and I go over there now and they still all know me and they ask about how I'm doing what's going on and it's wonderful my doctor my radiation oncologist had no idea what to do with it. Yeah, I've made her really nervous because like the first time that she checked on me after we started radiation therapy. It was Valentine's Day and so did big hearts all over my butt. Right Terry them big hearts on there and I went in there and I'm wearing the gown and and she asks me my doctor. Doctor Hazard. She said her name is actually Doctor Who and she said because how it how is radiation treating you as you know, do you have any rashes or anything like that? I said, yeah, I do. Could you take a look?

29:57 And opened up my gown and she leaned down didn't say anything and then wait a minute and I said it's I think right here and here and I pointed a couple of Hearts. She didn't say anything. It's Valentine's Day is a joke. That's that. Okay.

30:16 Do you think she ever eventually caught on to what you were doing? She did I mean eventually she understood I was joking but she still wasn't very comfortable with it. I think she was relatively new. I know I ran into her when I was getting my pet scan and and I asked her how things are going. We ran into each other in the elevators yesterday and we're going for a lot less interesting now that you're not so it seems like she's a relaxer that she got that part of it eventually but

30:48 I remember there was so during the time those six weeks. There was Valentine's Day there was also to do for st. Patrick's Day. I did we're going with One Cheek. We're going to do clovers and then the other ship. We're trying to decide what to write on there. You know. Happy Saint Patrick's Day something like that and I've been going through radiation for a couple weeks by then and I knew the therapist and so I asked my wife Tara to write go ahead and pinch me on that side. And so she goes okay right on there and I go in and I laid down and all the therapist will come in by this point. They're coming in every day to see what what the new, you know quote of the day was or what you know, I was doing it so they all came in and I turned around one of them after a minute and I can rent one of the girls and I said so you can go ahead and pinch me and she goes and just smacks me.

31:46 I said wow, what was that for and she said it says right here if he asks you to pinch him, please slap him for the day.

31:55 Some tricks. Play don't you worry about getting the taken out the garbage check you take this ass brought to you by the letters and numbers T3, and then one two, three and one with the original staging of the cancer. They thought it was third stage with only one lymph node involved turned out to be much more of course, but I'm into it a little El Mirage to Sesame Street. And and and so I go in there and I lay down and I said

32:28 I I look back for the reaction. You know, what reaction was I going to get from service? I said I would only need to take the garbage out of what it says right here. Please remind me to take the garbage out. Thanks. It was it was good. And I think it was a good release for both both Tara myself. We had one great moment where we were we stop by the daycare right before we headed over to radiation cetera could nurse Sienna and so we did that and then we'd run into the bathroom and I dropped my pants and she right on, you know, write the quote of the day and then we go over and I go through radiation. And so we go in there one day and Tara right to put on there and then we take a photo cuz we're documenting each one and we come out and we were laughing and running down the hallway and one of the preschool teachers there. She's like, oh, what are you guys laughing about him? Like I always took a great picture she goes out. How can I see? I don't think you want to see

33:28 Do I really did I said I said it's a picture of my butt real weird. Look on her face now, that's okay. I I don't want to leave documented all this a lot of photos and this will compliment and you know that after 4 weeks of documenting it day by day Tara small my mother-in-law she came in as she came over to visit and I went to take a picture of my time and my tan who had been seeing me come home and drop my pants and take a picture of it every day. He turns around and pulls down there and I have that picture frame. So if you just figured that was standard procedure go to the school photos. I'll be so happy. I feel like I've really succeeded as a parent.

34:23 You're a trickster coyote. He he has been amazingly.

34:38 Caring during this and you know taking care of me as I was recovering from each of the surgeries and he's a he's a new job. He started to use chemo is an excuse for himself to where I asked him to eat broccoli and he goes our dad I can't and he clutches his chest where my port is because I can't eat broccoli. It hurts. My chemo originally was Nemo. Yeah. Yeah. That's what do you have to go in for Nemo again? That's right. That's right.

35:11 Which sounds much better than chemo? That's what I think that's one of the interesting things about. This is I know that in like or at least I hope then like 50 years all the type of cancer treatment that I'm going through right now. We just left on is barbaric, you know, I bet they'll have stuff that works so much better than this stuff will appear to be that way early medieval way. We look back at treatments and wonder how people survive them. Yeah. Yeah, and it's weird because the doctors are aware of it too and they said, you know, we know the treatments are going to be a lot better in a little while. But right now we do what we can with what we have until they hit you with radiation to cure something that radiation causes and they sick poisons in your body that they have to glove up for I mean yesterday one of the one of the things are really hit me yesterday when I was going to getting ready for the Pet Scan was that they injected me with this radioactive tracer that they had to pull everybody else out of the room for once. They injected it into me cuz they were worried about exposure and this is just Diagnostics and see if I have any new tumors.

36:12 You know another thing that you've done that's amazing and we we should mention at least briefly is doing things like long-distance running during cancer treatment and projecting into this summer.

36:31 More of that the you know that the two runs there are three things time. I'm pretty proud of during it first was the the mile walk that I did four days after my first after getting out of the hospital from the first surgery.

36:47 That was incredibly tough.

36:51 Psychologically and physically, I didn't I had a bag for the first between the surgery so about four and a half months. I had essentially a colostomy bag for that where they did they cut out to my Inside Edition together and then giving me the bag while I healed and I didn't appreciate the the pain that that would be and both heading psychologically the pain of that was really it was really really rough to look down and see part of your intestine sticking out of your body and then stitched back to yourself there. That's that's really it really messed with me. It's a really weird to CNN, especially when it's a new you can look down and you can see down in your intestine in inside of you you can see inside of you through that match really really creepy.

37:38 But then there was the Ragnar that was just a couple weeks later that I ran in a relay race that is 178 miles and trying to change the bag that I wasn't used to yet. I didn't really know how to very well at midnight, you know, after running, you know, 7/8 miles and trying to figure it out. That was that was rough, but

38:01 It really underscore the fact that anything.

38:05 Anything that's worth doing is usually tough to do or tough to get through it. It it imbues it with a sense of accomplishment if it's something that stuff to do and I wouldn't take back haven't even had I known what it was going to be like beforehand. I probably wouldn't have done it. But once I was there in just had to deal with the situation I could I got a lot of stubbornness from you guys and I was the same with the marathon that I ran during chemo. It was just it was it was another way of being able to say, you know, like I said with my shirt fuckcancer and to be able to say no, I'm not going to let it run everything.

38:44 And now you're

38:47 Hoping to bring along other group other cancer patients and survivors to run Ragnar this summer. I've got right now about seven or eight people to people that are currently in chemo right now that are running and are getting ready to run. This this relay race is a team and what I'd love to do is I'd love to get steamed tumor love to get a whole group of people that are currently and came out to run it again because it gives you something outside of the pain of chemo and then and the the worry of thinking just about how long am I going to live? Am I now dying right now and feeling like crap dealing with chemo and everything and it gives the kids to go beyond that that people can do and

39:32 From what I seen so far with some of them. It's a really good thing.

39:36 One of the things that you do. I have living 90 miles away. I'm not here as much as I wish I were but I've been down to visit you when you were getting infusions in that room and I see you in the room with a whole room of people that are suffering from cancer and are getting this therapy and

39:59 Mostly they look depressed.

40:02 I mean that's understandable. But you seem to be there trying to cheer them up in some way. Obviously not a superficial way. Now, I bring candy and then I talk to people and hear their stories and I mean like this when people can people have a real need I think to tell they're stirring to be heard and to be able to do that. Even if it's you know, I just going over and say hey, you know, what kind of cancer do you have? How you doing? How's it going for you and stuff like that from somebody who also has cancer. I think it I know it it it it means a lot to me to be able to do that. And for a lot of people there it seemed to mean a lot by there were some times where I make people feel real uncomfortable by coming up and asking them about it, but by far the majority of the time it was it was something good and

40:50 It's something that helped me out a lot because it let me again do something Beyond just sitting there and getting confused with poison. Great. What would you what would you tell people who don't have cancer?

41:06 Earliest they don't know if they do should they listen or talk to people who their friends their family who do have cancer? What's the best thing they can do? Well, you know, I can only talk about myself and and my approach to it but it's always been I think the best thing the best thing for me is always been talkin directly about it and listening and then giving the person the I mean, you know, the person may think it's helpful may not think it's helpful may be angry about it may be happy about it. But whatever let him have that and let him let him be that way but addressing it and not not speaking about it because it's a it's like, I mean you're talking to somebody who has no hair and no it is throwing up and I'll see people trying to pretend that everything's fine with them being like Oh, so, how are you doing today? Not wanting to address it and it's it's like, you know, the elephant in the room right there. I'd Rather somebody says wow.

42:05 So you lost all your hair. How much does that suck or you know and really really really joking even joking about it, even you know, whatever. I think that again like for me dealing with it and and you know realizing that it is a huge factor in their life. It's the biggest thing in their life right then and so you talk about it you deal with it and and you make jokes about it or you know, you listen to them talk about it and you let them be angry at you or let them be happy or cry or whatever and don't try to take away from those emotions.

42:41 Because there's a lot of people that like, oh, you just need to be strong through after you need to fight it and some people decide, you know, what quality of life. I'm not going to do chemo. I'm going to let myself die and that's my choice. And that's the person's choice and to like his honor that her honor. However, they choose to deal with them.

43:02 Is there any final thing you wanted to thank you Daddy. It's been good.

43:18 It seems like you're

43:38 How are you doing first and then I'll tell.

43:41 I think one of the most

43:45 Fun days. I've had in my life.

43:52 Was shopping with you and your mother for a and I forget what you call them. Exactly. It was a lady secret red lace thong from Victoria's Secret. Yes. We went because you wanted to go in your last day of chemo where we at it right last day of radiation. And I don't know it was just one of these amazing days with that kind of

44:20 Whatever came before whatever came after didn't matter. It was a day that stood by itself and we were like we were just having fun going in Victoria's Secrets and you were you know, we were do this one looks cute. I wouldn't oh, I like the red but I forget you remember better what I said cuz you did a little you wrote a little story about it. But if it and I'll let you you tell that but I felt I don't know I felt like back in the sixties when it was fun to put people on and always and we always use the phrase blow their minds. We were blowing their money cuz it was like we were facilitating this weird son who wanted to get on here is his parents buying him a red fox for cashier there like what's going on? Cuz we didn't tell them what it was for. Yeah. I like that. We just started looking around and I went in and you know, I'm here with my parents and and I'm dressed in my suit from work pretty much anything and I'm saying, you know, hey, what size tongue would fit me?

45:20 And I ask myself what my wife says there's some thongs with himself in the back and

45:32 Too much fun. I got to say it was it was an amazing day when I mean we were there and I look across and you're picking up is like pair of what it was at blue and green panties me. Like what do you think about this and I yelled across the store I yield back in like, I don't know. There's not so much going on in the front with those must be not so much in the back and that's what everybody's going to be looking at and it just being like you could drop a pin in Victoria's Secret and just nobody would hear I think that's I mean when I think about him, I think better with my family because it's you know, it's been a lot of up and down with with my wife. Of course. I mean, you know when

46:14 She's done a lot of research on it tried to you know, she does all the research figuring out medically what what can be done and what what you know, what what is being worked on right now, but I remember that I remember her and I running and laughing as you know, after after she she wrote the quotes on my but I think of her yesterday morning as I'm drinking the barium they have you drink the two quarts of barium and and if they taste horrible and she's sitting there and she said do if you know we should do we should do a barium bong for you one of those hats, you know that they put the cans of beer in with the straws coming down do that with barium pizzetta to Burien things would fit in there and it's it's being able to approach a lot of it that way and say, okay, here's something horrible, but it can bring us closer together and we can deal with it and a strong way.

47:06 And you know having those times like with Madonna's he's joking about the broccoli and broccoli hurts my chemo daddy out in the restaurant ever talking about Anna looks from people around, you know, is there like a ninny know I'm telling you eat your broccoli. It doesn't hurt your chemo and you know the looks from people sitting around like I don't know his kid has cancer if he's making a murderer broccoli with cancer. I am I was going to say I think you know it we can almost don't want to lose sight that behind all this.

47:39 Joking, there's

47:42 Enough pain to fill the universe and all the sadness and regret.

47:52 But it's the way we deal with it the way you cope with it. I

47:56 You don't forgive me for referring to a football coach for wisdom, but you know me but some football coach said, you know, it's not that you can avoid painful difficult things in life. It's always a just a question of how you deal with them. Everyone's going to get them and when you when you know, you know with your children you do everything you can to try to help him avoid pain in their life and make their life easy and good and happy and you want to do everything to have them not have pain and then your your son has cancer now, it's like the worst thing but then you see him.

48:37 Rise up to it and deal with it. So that's what I always but I would the way I always think of it is. This is a horrible thing and it's brought out the best in you are you've met with your best and that's why I have to think of it. I wish I had this quote right, but the

48:57 You know, it's it's the fact that

49:01 That we die that makes life sweet. It's the fact that you know, there is pain and there is roughing to go through that makes joy that much sweeter and that's that's one of the things that I try to remember it's tough and it's Emma's wish I could say anything about death and stuff. But if there weren't if there weren't incredible amount of pain in the world, then you wouldn't be able to feel the joy of being without it or or be able to rise to the challenge of of

49:31 Rising above it

49:37 I love you, Daddy. I love you.