Robin Loucks and Spirit Trickey

00:04 My name is spirit trickey. I am 32 years old. And today's date is April 18th, 2012. We are in Little Rock Arkansas. And today I have the honor of introducing or sorry rather interviewing Robin Loucks.

00:23 Robin and I became acquainted through our shared history, I guess you could say my mother is many Gene Brown turkey one of the Little Rock Nine and she and mrs. Loucks attended school during the 1957 desegregation crisis.

00:47 And I am Robin Loucks Robinwood sloth. I'm 71 just this month. This is April 18th of 2012 and we are in Little Rock Arkansas and I have known Spirits through just watching her in on Facebook and meeting her occasionally. And again, her mother was minnijean brown who I went to school with a 1957.

01:15 So to begin thank you so much. It truly is an honor. The interesting thing is that I recognized the first time I saw you was on the Oprah Winfrey Show. And so even though we've you know had encounters than that is great to sit down and have this opportunity. So thank you very much. So I want to I want to gather some background about your life growing up where you were born some experiences you had so I'll begin with asking where and when were you born? I was born in St. Louis, Missouri, March 20th, 1941 only live there for six weeks because my father had joined the regular army in 1939, he understood and they both supposed to know that the war was coming and he wanted to be prepared. And when I was 6 weeks old, we moved Washington where he was stationed at the Pentagon and as a result of that I had very little contact with with

02:15 Father for the entire duration of the war I was small and he work 36 hours in a way I can wood when he did come home and be exhausting so early childhood was very stressful for both parents after the war. He was stationed in China for several years and my mother suffered serious allergy problems, and she was told by her doctors that you needed to go to a different climate and he suggested that you go to Arizona what she picked Lima Peru instead.

02:45 Because she could see a military travel and she wanted to experience another country. So we live there for two years and it was an absolutely incredible experience because when I was in a totally different Culture by that time I was six and we traveled all over the country and into Brazil and we went to Machu Picchu when it was there was no Road and I remember so much of that but I also remember the cultural differences and how mother would say everybody is the same and she would teach us to be polite and we went to a private school that was on the other side of Lima. She bought us at that. My sister was with me. She taught us to go to the bus climb on and ride the public bus transportation system all across Lima Peru and the public transportation was filled with a whole variety of cultural differences, and everybody was just as nice as I can be and so I just

03:45 That everybody was as nice as they could be all over the world.

03:50 So do you think that those early experiences shaped? Absolutely?

03:56 Bound upon that I mean, you mentioned that you know, you were just fully mixed in and you were told to treat him everyone equally but what are some things that stand out in your mind that that's stuck with you for a lifetime?

04:13 We were traveling in the back Andes mountains and but there was a small Andean village with the Inca Indians the descendants of the Inca Indians and they were around a square and they were having some sort of Celebration and I can remember they were cooking some sort of Stew over and opens and smell and they asked me if I would like to have a taste. I was a very blonde little girl and all of them would come over and they would cut my hair because it was very golden and my mother said no, I don't recommend that you have anything to eat and I said why and she said because they have tuberculosis.

04:57 Which was epidemic at that time and then so that is remained with me that in third world countries. You often have to run into medical situations where you you have to be very careful. That's one.

05:12 And so you stayed there until about what age and then what was the next day? Unfortunately, my parents got a divorce and we came home to Arkansas and mother then became a single parent my father actually suffered extreme post-traumatic stress disorder after the after the war which was the cause of the divorce and it took him years and years to get over that but because of that and because of the divorce, I'm basically never had a father in the home growing up and some other was a single parent and she built the house at 22nd Marshall Street here in Little Rock and she did that in the early fifties, even though the, integration Basalt. The the handwriting was on the wall and everybody said no, you can't deal there you have to build over there and have to because they were building they were beginning to think about building Hall High School at the time which would eliminate Central but mother said, no, I've got to have my children going to grade school.

06:12 Junior High and high school that they can walk to and so that's where we located there. So, where did you go to elementary school middle Mitchell Mitchell School West Side and Central

06:24 And can you tell me about some of the memorable experiences you have the middle school and junior high before high school?

06:32 I don't find anything up out early childhood education. Very memorable. I do say that when I lived in my Peru. I went to a private school and they thought I was retarded and I even went so far as to tell my mother that and mother said she can't be but they said she can't read and so we were sitting on the balcony one afternoon and mother was using these horrible flash cards and she would flash them up and flashed up one and I said tag, and she said what you mean by that and I said t a c and she said no it's cat and she put them down and she said, oh my God child you're reading backwards. We're just going to have to teach you to read forwards and so both she and my grandmother when we got back to the States would sit with me and read with me every night. I hated it and they would read a page and I would have to

07:32 Go to settings and they found a series of books that I really enjoyed and my grandmother finally one day said one night. If you want to finish this book, you're going to have to do it yourself because I cannot bear to do this any longer and I did but I've learned later I was severely dyslexic. I still am I can read a headline completely backwards and completely translated into something different school was never something that I really terribly enjoy it because it was a struggle

08:01 Was it a I mean, do you remember facing any type of challenges in terms of being in the classroom?

08:11 So it was it was dealt with early on and very interesting.

08:17 Go back a little bit. If you can give me the names of your mother father and your siblings tell me a little bit about your family that my father was Robert Chad Woods when he grew up in Arkansas. He was a banker before he went into the army and when they got out of the army and pulled himself together. He was a real estate broker in Houston, Texas and mother's was Mildred Saunders. And then she was born in Pine Bluff how I actually feel we have to postpone the public then they lived in what they had a farm in southeast, Arkansas. So she live there and when she came back to Arkansas song famous single mom. She started the food home and garden editor ship at the Arkansas Gazette.

09:01 Wonderful and your siblings. I had one sister Hannah Hannah Wallace Hueston Woods who was quite brilliant and she graduated from Bryn Mawr and went into the Foreign Service and was killed in an automobile accident in 1970 and 1968 and Yugoslavia. So she's no longer with us.

09:23 So

09:25 Your friends are people that you grew up with your neighbors. Can you describe do any of them stand out to you when one of them is still one of my best friends actually two of them are still one of my best friends, and I think we were perfectly normal.

09:42 Teenagers are we went to the movies? We went to the school dances so fun.

09:52 So considering the fact that the Central High crisis is going to be part of our conversation. Can you describe you know, you were regular young person growing up? But do you remember any of the

10:08 Tangibly seeing or experiencing anything to do with a segregated Society. I knew it was a segregated Society but I never thought about it. I saw the whites only signs its water fountains and at the movie theater, and I thought that was really rather peculiar, but it never occurred to me to question it and but I do remember one incident with taking the public bus and I'm in Lima as a small girl and leave it does have some chili months. It was a lot better to sit at the back of the bus because it was wrong and I remember taking the bus here in Little Rock to go to the library and I walk to the back of the bus where it was warm in the winter and they told me I had to go to the front of the bus.

10:54 The bus driver told me that and I thought well, why is that so you didn't ask you. I just don't know what that's peculiar.

11:03 So you didn't have any particular view know I was always taught that you should always be polite. You never used unfortunate language them about speaking of another race. You didn't use slang for any person whether they were or yellow or they were Asian where they were Mexican where they were black or they were Jewish you simply that was just not acceptable behavior.

11:29 So what role did education or whatever this is our value was placed on education in your family, very strong. We always had books. We always read as matter fact when television came out mother wouldn't buy one.

11:46 Interfere with her homework. So even throughout High School you didn't know.

11:54 So if we if you can take me from Lima you said you know, you had your middle school and your Junior High these particular schools. You let a pretty regular life if I understand correctly in terms of having fun as a young person.

12:11 Lead me to your decision to go to Central or was that just your district school district school. My sister went ahead of me. And she was one of the valedictorians the head of I think they split it was and so we were expected to perform academically. So did you think of central as a

12:32 Alluring beautiful appealing building you no visitors come here from all around the world and they're just in awe. What did you have that sense as someone who grew up around the side and I don't think people came to speak to even all over Central, but I think we just went to school and I was

12:50 Oh my God, I was always so afraid that I was going to fail that I found particularly the beginning of school cuz I did was very stressful. My sister was so bright. You straight A's and so here I was I had to follow that and if I failed a class I probably would be

13:12 Dismiss from family dishonoring the family so I studied I studied hard.

13:19 So were you ever at the school at the same time with your sister or no? Well gone on she was always one year ahead of me when you entered was she she was still had me. So when she was a senior I was a freshman or Junior know I wasn't let me see 10th grade the way the school systems are set up then Senior High School was 10th 11th and 12th. So as a senior I was in the tenth grade.

13:46 Do you remember Brown versus Board of Education Supreme Court case is just out here on the fringes at but didn't bother me.

13:57 And if I were you wear it when desegregation the plan was to be implemented in that September 1957. I would have been a little worried Junior.

14:08 I just never occurred to me and never cried real friends. So they would be any problem whatsoever. And so the fact you didn't have a television where you getting any of the news of my mother worked at the paper. So we got all the news. Did she talk about it in the house to the extent that she did not think there really be any problem. She really didn't end the day that the month of the week that the school when she was in New York at a conference and my grandmother was staying with me from Pine Bluff.

14:42 And do you remember anyting you know, what did your grandmother say anything or since she was a way where you getting wind of the fact that they were protesters Gathering and that type of thing. I really wasn't it was so the very first day of school was a complete shock. What did you see on the first day?

15:02 As I can remember it but because I came from the south and I was about a mile walk from home to school coming upon that cuz the crowds was was just total disorder that something that was out of a a nightmare. It was nothing that I've ever experienced. I've never seen her around a crowd before outside of it being in the movie and it was

15:27 Mind-boggling to say the least so did was it easy for you to bypass the protesters and get a yes. I can I can dip into the south end of it in one of the side doors.

15:53 Images

15:56 Images of just people who I would say, we're poor white trash we're gathered around and they were yelling and screaming and behaving and MOB mentality. Actually that I found shocking and completely

16:25 I unlocked. I don't think I can really quite say how I felt because I was so

16:31 Unprepared for that that what I wanted to do is just escape and so I escaped into the confines of the school when she was at least quiet. I didn't want to have anything to do with people who behave that way.

16:45 Can you describe some of the behavior yelling? And we've seen it on TV. It is ugly faces. It is yelling. It is Mindless completely mindless.

16:59 That's what a mob is.

17:02 So you made it to your class and the crowd remained my remains do you remember?

17:12 The day that the Little Rock Nine first entered the school with with Timber 23rd pass this city police. Yes.

17:24 They said they didn't stay long they had to be but but again, I was in homeroom because I've always got school early cuz I had to study. So I was you could hear the commotion outside, but I was protected inside.

17:43 So did you you didn't bump into any of the nine on that first then our anything probably?

17:49 And the second time they

17:52 Then were escorted into Central with the protection of the hundred first Airborne in the federalized Arkansas National Guard. Do you remember that I do?

18:05 Whether it was a great relief to have the hundred first out there because it was it was Law and Order which we needed.

18:17 And so it was if they gave me a sense of thank God somebody's here to take care of it. And so we were just waiting to find out what happened next.

18:28 Did it make you feel uneasy or don't know I was thrilled.

18:33 They have them there.

18:35 I was not pleased that they had to be there but there was a necessary.

18:40 The other question I should have asked this in sequential order. But the first time that the students attended and were turned away the famous picture of Elizabeth. Yes, for now that that was if I ever have a regret I will the thing that I'm nice cuz I saw that very tail end of that again. I came up as she walked down across from from north to south down the front of the school and I came up from the south and I heard the crowd in the crowd was as bad as it ever been and it was eight or ten people sick and I was wondering what in the world was and I can jump up and down and barely see over. So I just saw that out just a little bit if she turn the corner to go to the bus stop and I thought what in the world is happening. Maybe I can go sit with her, but I couldn't get through the crap.

19:33 And so

19:35 Sorry, it's a lot of order but too fast for the students made it in.

19:41 Do you remember your first encounter with one of the Little Rock Nine? Oh, yes. It was in her algebra class.

19:48 And who was it? That was Terrence Roberts who I always sat at the front of a classroom the back.

20:01 And Terrance came in is courted by the national by the hundred and 1st and he said I want my seat was here and maybe three or four feet over. There was Terrance the seat and he said there and the teacher said open your books to page someone so and he didn't have a book and nobody said anything. It was obviously didn't have a book and I waited.

20:27 And waited and waited seems like an eternity I waited for some of the stupid boys in the class to share because

20:39 Nobody has anything and then something said Sherry walk. So I picked up my chair and shove it over and sat down and shared my house rule book with him.

20:49 I'm about to stay out there.

20:51 I could have told you what the last of us and we were both sitting there because I knew I stepped over the line and he knew I'd stepped over the line and then I think I remember seeing its okay, its okay its okay.

21:07 So it what point did you feel?

21:11 As you described it that you had stepped Over The Line.

21:15 Because I had sense enough to realize that in that particular climate the disapproval of any sort of white girl having any sort of interchange with a black boy was a no no.

21:32 But this was beyond that this was something that one had to do.

21:38 Do you feel that your initial actions were in Saints? And then you there was a feeling that came over. There was something that said move your desk. I mean it was a quite audible inside voice move your desk.

21:53 And for some reason I made.

21:57 And so you moved your dad some of my tasks.

22:00 And took your book and take my boat.

22:03 So your next interaction?

22:06 Was there any more what did you continue to go to class together? What consequences did you face for sharing your book with Terrance that day beyond my wildest depositions. I was followed home by a group of kids who threw rocks at me and spat at me and called me unfortunate names.

22:31 And I had a series of hate mail and hate phone calls for the entire year.

22:39 Because of that one is because of that one incident.

22:43 Did you think to yourself?

22:46 The

22:49 Let me not even ask that question. What did you think?

22:53 Did you have any idea that this could have warranted this type of behavior? No, no, I didn't and fortunately I had a very supportive mother and supportive friends of hers as well. It never occurred to me that in the United States of America people would behave that way. I'll tell you something else that I remember from early childhood and that was and when the Nazi concentration camps were liberated they had black and white newsreels that were shown in the local theaters are RKO. I think it was and my mother took me and my sister to the theater and she said I want you to watch these.

23:37 These horrible images of people coming out of the concentration camps. She said I want you to see this and remember it every day of your life because this is what man's inhumanity to man and will do and if we don't learn for it, we will repeat it.

23:54 And it still gives me shivers and I can still see it and it almost reduces me to tears. I could not believe that in Little Rock Arkansas people were behaving that way because do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

24:10 Is a fundamental rule of a civilized society.

24:15 So, where do you think that your mother's value came from to pass that on to her children from her mother and her grandmother and long back you treat everyone with consideration You can disagree without being disagreeable.

24:31 Is easier to yell, but it's much better to communicate. And so how did you deal with the

24:39 Fall out of you your act of kindness to merely share your book while I did more than that tried to get the president. I was on student council Junior student representative and I tried to get the president of the student council whose name is Ralph Brody. I tried to get him to talk to the to the principles in the vice principals because I thought if we would have a

25:07 Assembly in which we could have a discussion about this. It might help solve the problem and he wouldn't do it. He would not do it and I did arrange that my mother had an acquaintance who is a Swedish journalist. And this she asked me if I could arrange a meeting with some of the black students in some of the segregationist and I did and that was recorded and blacked out in Arkansas, but it was reported by NBC tonight. And did you ever hear of it? I did. My mother told me about it. She was one of the songs about how she said

25:48 Something about boys I bringing in the commonalities. Can you talk about what that meeting was? Like it was moderated to that matter of fact, I know it's was the name of the book and this was the book.

26:04 Haitian money

26:08 Did you ever see the book?

26:12 No, we need to have more conversations. This is awesome.

26:21 Thank you. My goodness. That's so beautiful. That is a

26:33 Thank you very much. This is one of the not so well-known stories. Can you please talk about it from as if it was to?

26:47 Who was it? I got two black dudes to White Fox and I think he is still here in town. But I've never heard what happened to him. And we got two of the segregation segregation is girls and during the course of the conversation which was taped just The Interchange between Ernest and many Gene convince them that the segregation is that it was okay that it was not racial integration since it was education education education.

27:22 But then they went home and their parents jumped on them in the next day they reverted.

27:27 So you have to be carefully taught. When did that take place? You remember since September? Okay. I was on the front end of everything be present at that meeting.

27:42 And that meeting between that the segregation wasn't that was a participant that was and I arranged it was.

27:51 Because I knew that it had nothing to do with anything except education.

27:57 It just didn't what was the problem was going to school with black students?

28:05 Are all the same?

28:09 But during this time during his climate.

28:13 What was the response to your train of thought or your philosophy or values that we are all the same I didn't waver in that. I knew that what I had done. What I was trying to do is right.

28:28 And it never occurred to me to back down and I think that I think that's a good many of the students were afraid of me because I wouldn't back down. I mean I was you could see the pictures of a hours.

28:43 I haven't grown an inch since then. So was it hard to make or maintain friendships in at school or in the community know it really wasn't because my friends who are now going to Hall High School that they basically felt the same way I did.

29:07 So it was it was the other climate?

29:12 That balbus was calling out the rabble-rouser. So that were causing it was basically a small segment of the students who are causing the majority of the trouble at school and their parents who were causing the trouble and the governor deliberately call them out and that's always been my opinion.

29:35 So you have a group of people who are targeting the 9 you have very few people like yourself who stepped forward during that violent climate and why don't they step forward and I think it's fear and I think it is exactly the same thing that my mother was forewarning about and Nazi Germany if we just shut up is all go away.

30:00 So what about the silent Witnesses is a term that I used to describe those who witnessed things and did not stand up. I've spoken to many people who went to Central during the crisis who have had regret for maybe now 55 years that they didn't.

30:22 They were afraid which is no excuse.

30:26 But particularly in a country that Prides itself on all the values that we pride ourselves particularly Christian values for the majority of the people who composed those angry crowds. I am sure that they were in church on Sunday.

30:45 Not paying attention to the scriptures. Not really my mother had grown up in a Christian household and but she didn't go to church, but she firmly believed in the lessons that

31:03 Jesus teaches love one another do unto others as you would have others do unto you and those that mean it's it ain't hard. I make it there some easy rules there. They just seem to be very difficult for Humanity to follow.

31:18 So are there any other poignant moments of your experience during the crisis year?

31:26 One of them was I was it was about the time that I was organizing that that I was outside. There were crowds of reporters and some reporters wanted to talk to me about what was going on inside and the vice principal. Mr. Powell came out and took me by the arm and said if you don't come in we will have you expelled.

31:50 And so being a beautiful little girl.

31:55 Why did you do?

31:56 He thought he did not he did not want me to be talking to the reporters. He did not want me causing being being a troublemaker because what I was trying to say, there are things that are happening inside the school. Everything can be all right, if the crowds would just be dismissed.

32:16 If we can just get people to talk to one another.

32:20 Did you witness?

32:22 This is a cool and emotional abuse that the nine face only when I was with them which was in when I think two classes my English class and I sat at the front of the room and I'm not even sure who it was which one it was. Was that the back of the coldness?

32:42 The ignoring ignoring them, which was Unforgivable.

32:59 Not then actually we never did because it was an incident that he needed to book and I've had the book so I shared the book. I found out later that his book had been I think stolen and gym class.

33:15 So it was hitherto book a just didn't make it to class. But you see he was he was a student and I was a student and we studied that so we didn't mess around wait. We were in the algebra class to study Algebra. I was in the Latin class the study lamp.

33:32 Would you say you became friends or there was no place for a friendship between yours and there wasn't really a place at that point again. We were we were we were studying and it was very difficult to study under those circumstances. I don't know how any of this past season so I can not imagine. I have a question kind of question. I'm curious about but do you remember my mother many genes at the school? Do you describe what she was like, I thought that she was just as fun as she could be she was she could smile she could smile.

34:14 Do you remember anything about her suspension her expulsion? I was not in the cafeteria the day that you threw the jelly.

34:24 I probably would have thrown jelly myself.

34:27 Was it a big deal when she was expelled and little cars are passed around the side one down 8 to go. I don't recall that one.

34:36 If I thought it was a sad deal and I thought that you should have been expelled what she did under the circumstances and being with a sort of pressure that she had on her and with the boys being so rude they deserve to be expelled.

34:51 Do you just want to talk? Maybe you say that story just so that's on the tape the Chili's Thornton?

35:00 Well minnijean as you described was very vivacious. She was at his opinion ages out where she was an important person and she was no less than anyone else and they were not naive enough to think that it would be easy to go to Central but they really had no idea that it would turn into a crisis that attracted International attention with thousands, you know over a thousand people in the mob. So anyways with this vivacious Spirits very happy go lucky attitude.

35:38 Years later Beth Roy who wrote better than the honey uncovered that the kids hated her so much because she quote Walk The Halls like she belongs there.

35:50 And so that Spirit was really bothers them to a lot of the white students as she was targeted. I've seen the nine altogether and they say that there was a unique strategy after getting many genes do anyways on one occasion. She was trying to get to her seat in the cafeteria was December she had chili on her tray and some boys kicked out their feet when let her past. She tried to be nonviolent and give them another chance when she move forward again, they push their feet in trying to trip her and block her way and she picked up her tray and drops it chilly milk roll silverware Etc fell on the boys and during this climate was a very big deal. I didn't world history interview with someone who was in the cafeteria and said it was very close to a riot breaking out because they can't believe she retaliated especially in that manner.

36:48 So she was suspended for that. She served her suspension and was able to return to school and she was being followed by a group of girls. And she said that it was no no different than any other day. So she just tried to ignore them and they followed her up three flights of stairs and she ignored them until one of the girls had combination locks in her purse and hit her on the side of the head really hard and it was very painful and shocking and she turned around and said leave me alone white trash. And so those two words are heard by your homeroom teacher since the office and expelled an interesting fact.

37:28 Is that crisis at Central High which was produced in the 80s?

37:36 Diane Woodward

37:40 Had to get releases from all of the Nile when they were making the film and call my mother. We are living in Canada and ask her to sign the release so she read the script and she said I don't like the way I'm portrayed is like a bully and I wasn't a bully and just like this brute girl, and she said I I can't sign it with this type of betrayal end.

38:05 Huckabee

38:07 I'm blanking the girls vice principal Elizabeth Elizabeth. It was Elizabeth that called her. I'm sorry and as a consultant to the Fillmore, and she said you don't understand anything. You were kicked out of central for your own good you would have been killed. It had gotten to that point like a lot of times. You see the images in front of Central High School. There are many Recollections of what happened inside the school. But what happened at their house has a lot of dangerous things Carlotta walls Lanier his house was bombed people through

38:44 The bottles with the fire on it in their house and they knew where they live. They knew what they were so is very dangerous. So I know it's a long-winded answer but it's kind of I wanted to give her that if it does that wasn't I wasn't aware of the the locker thing, but them it's interesting. I spent almost no time in the cafeteria. You had a short lunch periods and all I will go in and I would do it every day. I would get two rolls cuz they have the best homemade yeast rolls ever having the food at Central was fabulous. That was really good. Chili she dropped.

39:20 They had really wonderful food. So I would grab my two rolls and go and study.

39:27 So I never lollygag to tables and I just needed to tell you I didn't eat. Yeah, that was one of the few places at the 9.

39:39 Could be together was the cafeteria. So kind of a special place and then you know the fact that the chili story happened there so

39:51 Do you recall Ernest Green graduation? No, because I was I was a junior I didn't go into it. So I didn't and so are there any other things positive or negative that you remember from? The quote crisis here?

40:10 I made it through the year. That's a positive.

40:13 The previous year another fellow and I won the state science fair. And so I thought I did another science project for that year. I built a solar power transistor radio and somebody mashed it never has never judged. Somebody just trashed it.

40:34 Inside the school inside the school just in the other room you put out your exhibit and then the dredges came by and by the time they were caught in it never occurred to me that they were it was retaliation.

40:47 But in hindsight BCM exactly

40:52 How long?

40:54 What type of Ripple effects and how long do they last as all of the nine are well aware they suffered from post-traumatic stress syndrome for years and you never get over it. I don't think the one thing that they had was day by day counseling all the people who who taught them about 9 non violence and how to cope with this incredible situation that they were dealing with and I didn't all I came home to every night was my mother who was very supportive since my sister already gone off to college and it didn't occur to me until probably 35 or 40 years later that I had an undiagnosed case of post-traumatic stress syndrome and just realizing that and then talking to some professional account services as we work through. It. It was it was such a devastating year.

41:46 That I could hardly wait to get out of the state. I never thought I wanted to come back to Arkansas.

41:52 Well, that's interesting the post traumatic stress syndrome because

41:58 I think it was a couple years ago.

42:01 Someone in a some of the 9round a panel and someone brought up the counseling and they said what counseling they really didn't have counseling Unfortunately. They had they had their parents some of them had church family. So to speak that embrace them but counseling, you know in terms of what we think of counseling today, they didn't exist. So I had people to talk to

42:39 I just find it so fascinating because there was a man named James Lawson and she was a non-violence Philosopher's Stone to speak and he taught non-violence the strategies of non-violence and my mother bumped into him maybe five years ago and said there's a wave of narrative saying that we had you came and did non violence counseling. I'm not too sure about that and he said I came in February you guys had naturally adopted this philosophy and I came in and February and I helped you.

43:18 Perfect your strategies, which was very fascinating to her to think that they just adopted and everybody. I mean, that's why I'm so proud that this is a National Historic Site and we pride ourselves in saying this is an American story this does this is not pigeonholed into a black history story into Central High School. This is a microcosm for the bigger picking it is a scribe and

43:48 Everyone suffered

43:51 Everybody suffered and I firmly believe that and

43:57 It is just great to talk to you and you know to learn about.

44:03 What it did to you what?

44:06 You know what price you paid?

44:08 And I would say your story and correct me if I'm wrong is a little bit unique because not everybody was as Brave as you and courageous to do what they believed was. Right? Because some people's parents were telling them that integration is an Abomination Abomination against God their pastors were saying that and as a result, they manifested that behavior and acted that way not everybody's parents were saying treat people you have to be taught to hate of Rodgers and Hammerstein did that you have to be very carefully taught to hate and it has always just devastated me that they in the name of religion and it can be any religion you hate somebody else because almost all religions teach tolerance and love

44:58 And so when you immediately ignore those the very fundamental principles, then there's something the matter with the way that religion has been caught.

45:08 So after this the school year.

45:13 I escaped after that specific here. So take me on a journey from Bill actually, didn't it took a while when the year was over I went I spent the summer in New York was friends of my mother's and when I came back for the senior year the schools were closed and I lack only my senior English credit from graduating. So I took Scholastic aptitude test and went on in the college, but I was in not in any sort of emotional state to go to college and what do you look for a while I could have gone to Bryn Mawr but I knew I couldn't handle that right then. So I have dropped out after semester and went back to New York and it took issue State. I live there for 3 years.

45:59 How are you doing in New York how I work for NBC actually wonderful and then are you doing I was a guide at at that Studios and then I was started working for public relations for start taking courses at the new school there. I got married a mistake and move to Ohio and that didn't work and came back Arkansas. So when you move to New York, what was it like having just come from this?

46:25 Such a relief

46:28 Let me tell you what that was. What a great City I love New York.

46:34 I thought you and then okay, so you went to New York and went through Ohio. And then what leads you take me up to 1996 when you're on the Oprah show. If you can leave me up to that point. Okay, I was living downtown 1996. How old will my children are all gone? I have to they were gone happily married and I was in real estate and there was a phone call phone message and the phone message said after the Robin Woods, would you who went to Central High School? Would you please call the temperature in so I thought this is a joke. And so if I call him and it was and they said I did you go to Central High School in 1957. And I said yes. And do you say do you remember the name Terrence Roberts and I said oh, yes, and they said what do you remember and I said, well he was in my algebra class and I shared my book.

47:30 And I said we've been trying to find you. Would you appear as a special guest on the Oprah show and I said, oh, yes, I said that you're the surprise. We're not going to let them know that we found you and what you have to do. This is all my thinking Thursday or Friday. I said, it's on Monday. The tape is on Monday. So can you fly up and I said so I did and it was an adventure. What was it like, well, I almost fell over the cables as I walked into the and I thought I cannot fall flat on my face and it was really quite an exciting adventure to meet her and to see everybody can and it was particularly Pleasant that I could sit up with him and I didn't have to sit out in the audience with the ones who were

48:19 So it's pretty evident from watching it that dr. Terrence Roberts was authentically surprised that you were there. And if he was did you can you describe that like that moment of you coming out loud and will offer said do you remember Robin was he said? Yes, I remember everything about her and then he said well, I have a surprise for you and brought you out and then he said I know I know it.

48:46 So it was it was great to see you.

48:49 He's a fabulous person.

48:52 I have a question, you would mention that you hadn't in high school. We hadn't talked to him about you know. I'm sure we talked during the course of the year because you always talk to the class, but it wasn't anything that was particularly memorable.

49:12 Oh, yeah. That's not necessarily that cuz that was he documented it was on the show and also in his book.

49:25 And he would he understood exactly what I've done.

49:30 And then he

49:33 Professor of psychology, so I'm sure you know, it's it's I've heard him speak about it and and I've heard the 9th week about it and it's amazing how your act of kindness is so seared in their mind on a positive note just as some of the kids who treated them terribly and people inflicted Terror on them. How does that make you feel?

49:57 I'm very glad I did it. I'm very glad I followed my heart and out and something else. I would pass them in the hall and one of them mentioned later that when they would see me in the hall. They would know that I would be smiling at them like your mother. She was very vivacious. Apparently I was too and says so that

50:18 They would know that there's hope there's hope.

50:22 And at that time did you know?

50:25 What impact or snot?

50:29 And what do you think about it now? I don't think people have said what I did was incredibly courageous and heroic and I don't think anybody sets out to do anything incredibly courageous or heroic the moment arrives and you see the opportunity and you take it or you don't

50:50 And it was there and I took it.

50:53 And so do I have an I've never felt that I had done anything extraordinary. I have always felt that I did.

51:01 What was Nassar do?

51:04 But with 55 years of reflection.

51:08 Do you feel any sense of?

51:13 I don't know. I don't want to give you a well as as my husband says he is incredibly proud of me and always makes me feel embarrassed because I've never sought the Limelight and I find it very touching.

51:31 And it has really particular particular the past the past year. So a lot of my neighbors and friends have never known.

51:41 What happened and they gave me a party last month because of that really that's so fabulous and I was really surprised and and very humbled because again they were looking at me because I was I had done something that was so unusual and they wanted honoree for it and I thought it may be unusual but it was something that had to be done and I didn't do it for the acolytes. I did it because it had to be done.

52:14 That's beautiful.

52:17 So you mentioned your children, so if you can tell me a little bit about your children and

52:22 I think it's very interesting that.

52:25 You showed me the blog posting your daughter had written. If you can tell me a bit about your children their names where they are and then about the lessons that you've passed on to them.

52:37 You only pass lessons on to your children and you can say things to them. But I think it's the way you treat other people and how you behave that is the biggest teacher of all day by day every day. You were teaching your children something and most of us as parents just kind of blot along when we don't realize them and put us back our children. My daughter is a professional writer. She lives in North Carolina. She's happily married for 20 years, and she has just become a certified life coach.

53:15 And she's writing her blog which is remarkable if you have you had a chance to really is she is how old is she she's 45 this year, which makes me feel incredibly old.

53:29 But that was what happened.

53:33 And my son lives in Maumelle with his wife and he has my one and only granddaughter and they have been married about.

53:41 15 or 16 years old now. So both of them have had single relationships that have lasted so I feel that I've done something right there.

53:52 Wonderful, and so you are still living in Little Rock?

53:57 And your realtor. Now, I'm retired. I'm going to also an artist when I finally got back and finish my college. I had got her degree in Psychology and want an art and then I got a master's in art.

54:10 Wonderful

54:12 So

54:16 In a hundred years

54:18 How do you want to be remembered?

54:22 In a hundred years for having sex will be here. I'm okay, I think as anybody who thinks about it. I have a tiny tiny tiny little part of history. And I think probably it will be a tiny tiny tiny part of history in a hundred years and then it will be forgotten.

54:42 I would like to think that it will not and I would like to say personally that it's not as tiny tiny tiny as you described.

54:52 You your legacy will forever be carried on.

54:59 Central High is a National Historic Site. And so hopefully for the next 500 years for the rest of Eternity people will come here and learn about you know, what happened and

55:12 Wonder wonder why we were so archaic back in 1957.

55:17 Well, I would like to say thank you for

55:22 Being the person that you are for exhibiting love and kindness and all of these wonderful values. I know that

55:32 You may have saved one of their lives by that that smile the way you treated them and I I can't tell you how appreciative I am and honored to be able to talk to you that there anything else that you wanted to end with the I can't thank you enough. I'm always stunned that people think that what I did was so unusual because kindness should not be unusual.

56:03 So, thank you. Thank you.