Devi Patel and Reshma Bell

00:04 Hi, this is reshma Bell. I am 38 years old. It's the 1st of June 2012. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee interviewing my mother.

00:16 I'm Devi Patel. I'm 67 years old and it's June 1st 2012. We are Nashville, Tennessee and this is my daughter ishma.

00:30 I wanted to talk to you. I don't think we really ever talked about your childhood. So I just wanted to start off with a couple of things that I do know and then kind of get into some other things that have been in the back of my mind. It's never have found a good time to ask you. So first of all, how many brothers and sisters do you have I have four brothers and three sisters vivere the four brothers and three sisters and them off for me and tell me where you fall in the middle of all those always Kiss Me by Daya by and he's in Kansas City, Missouri, and my second brother is mowing by whose sin South Africa still and my third brother was ready to buy he passed away and my fat brother was hustle. He passed away also.

01:30 And then oh, okay now and then she's still in South Africa and I'm Devi Patel and I'm in San Antonio, Texas and my youngest sister is in the South Africa daughter and your oldest brother was or is

02:02 Right now, he's in Kansas City, Missouri growing up together as far as your siblings. Who are you closest to?

02:16 Running Outta My older sister

02:21 And what about now? Do you still feel like you're very close to her school already close to her. How often do you talk to her?

02:30 Maybe once a month sees far away. What about thinking back on your childhood? What's one of your earliest memories that you have growing up?

02:45 Well back, then we grew up in South Africa and there was a

02:52 Complete difference in what's today? And what's Den life was very simple. There was no we didn't have a lot of cars. So there was no problem talking Problem. Whatever we wanted to go we walked and where did you go if we went shopping like a well that is to be called like okay bazaars and all that. So we walked over day we walk to the beach which was at least five miles away. And then we would go go to the harbor what the ships and different things.

03:34 Then sometime we walk to the park on Sundays we had good time and it was a very simple life now when you went did you mainly go with your your siblings or did you have other friends that you went with their other relatives said that they're more do used to happen that all the kids will be going we stayed in a flat where they was 12.

04:04 2 hours on like Flats Apartments Lake and then

04:15 If if you rent with a beat, you asked everybody if you want to come and the kids from everybody's house we all went together. And when one of the adult 102 adults will be with us.

04:31 Speaking about the beach cuz I remember which you grew up in in Darvin, which is right there on the coast, but I remember when we went back which is been

04:42 Gosh 2003 and I went to the beach with with some of my cousins and they told me about this this used to be the white Beach or you know, I believe so was there a specific Beach that you had to go to cuz this is South Africa and then sudden place was reserved for whites and certain for blacks. So we fell in between

05:19 At that time the

05:21 We couldn't go now the beaches that we go to at that time. We couldn't go there and in those times you can buy a house. Anyway, you can live in any way to do a certain area. You can stay there a certain area. That was Vidalia satin area that was black area. So that's where we stayed in the section that you have stayed in. The another section was so this different tribes in this blacks like Zulu and all those so they stayed more out of the town.

06:03 Okay, and I'll ask you about that later to I mean as a child I was interested to know if if you noticed that you know that segregation between the white people that were there is no black people that were there and then if you kind of fell in the middle, I didn't know if you really noticed.

06:25 That separation or was it just that is how it is and you don't question it. I mean did it bother you or did you just kind of time it kind of didn't bother you too much but little bit that if you ain't like shopping, they would not serve you like an Adele get finished with all the other customers and then they'll service at that time. It's going to bother you.

06:49 Then if we went to the park, we went to the harbor or wherever we went. Like if you wanted to go to the restroom, like, you know, you were never even after three of us you come home. It's only that because they wouldn't be anything for Italy every waiter in its vital. Even the benches. You have to sit on it will be written why it's only so you can't even sit on the bench. Really. I didn't realize that I just thought it was separate but I knew you know, they were separate places to live in separate places to go but I didn't realize it was even to that that mean

07:29 What what was one of your most memorable childhood?

07:36 Events, or you know, what's a memory that you cherish even now you can you can remember everything about it and meant a lot to you. Even though you feel that those were the good old days today if a child wants to go and play the next door she had to go and ask whether she can play at that time. We all got together. We just played and it was no problem. So I think we had the

08:10 Vertical you have a lot of

08:16 Relation with everybody like if you needed help everybody will come and help you right now. Like you had to ask for help and you know, there's that sense of community.

08:29 So there's a lot of

08:32 Seattle Community College

08:39 Yeah, there was more social life. And that time it is right. Now. You don't have a lot of social life even in the house that the everybody's so busy. It's different people are doing different things and nobody has time like for each other that lives with you. We had everybody in the house my grandfather then we had three bedroom house three bedrooms three bathrooms and a kitchen and a bathroom and other so there was four brothers and three sisters.

09:24 And my grandfather my mom and my dad and then when visitors came they stayed in a small house you hit place for everybody today. You have a big house and you don't have place for anybody in our house. It was it wasn't an inconvenient system. I called the day before and said they were coming you were excited. You would get their words hurt making dinner. And if somebody comes or my God, somebody's yeah. Yeah. That's that's definitely the kind of relationship. Did you have with your mom? How would you describe it?

10:18 Oh, yeah. What kind of relationship did you have with your mom?

10:27 Edit my my mom was always very hardworking. So she always start us a lot of things and she thought that we should learn different things. You know, it would be benefiting our life what kind of things like household things or educational or even in those done? Although she didn't study. She always thought that we should study.

10:59 And see my father every day, he would sit there and teaches everything what we learned at school and different things and then my mom she didn't she couldn't read. So my father would say that the

11:18 If you carry on reading water, but you can if she read from word to word, it will take up more than one hour to read one page. So he said that's okay in future. You will be bad. She did do that. And as time went on she could read better, maybe not as good as us.

11:46 It was a typical day like and you know just

11:53 A typical Saturday or weekend or something like for you to say is like from Monday to Friday. We went to school. So we got up in the morning. It's in those times. There was no such thing as taking a bath in the evening.

12:11 So you got up in the morning, maybe about 6 because you couldn't get up late because by 8 I have to be at school, and I have all the you can keep yourself off your books at school at in those times. We had to carry everything every day like we took a bath in the morning had her breakfast and then left for school. We always walk to school. So I need all of her books to school and brought it back and we lived on the fourth floor. And then when we went to HighSchool, I was school was quite fine about 3 miles away from home, but every morning we walked to school and when we finished at 3, we will walk back.

13:11 Home with everything and when we re not like before sixth grade, we went to the morning school and we went to the afternoon school was the when we learned our language 5:30 and then it has certain things that you were you know that you're always there's always like after you finish eat. All the dishes has to go watch one person has to wipe them somebody has to put them away on Saturday before Saturday comes. My mom has a whole lot of things we won't be done till 2, or maybe so we had a whole lot of things to do.

14:00 I'm going to speed it up now adolescents getting to be an adult. What what age were you when you got married 2121?

14:17 And you've told me about this a little bit before the but as far as we're Indian so, you know arranged marriage is a big thing describe finding out about getting Mary. Did, you know Daddy did a house if you didn't, you know describe feelings that went through your head or if you did how long did you know him that I described?

14:48 Well, actually

14:51 I think I'll do it arranged married. There's always most of the time, you know that person and even from different people and my sister knew him and when I seen him one or two times and that's how we knew each other but like when I got engaged like he came and then we that's he came to like he's from Johannesburg and live in Durban so they came over so

15:29 When's the first time you talked to him?

15:32 When we got engaged so you saw him before you got it. You didn't really talk to him until afterwards. I didn't want to talk to him.

15:51 What kind of emotions were you going through? I mean, I know this is just what's done. You know, I mean, you're every that's just your friends your cousin's your sisters or brothers that mean everything's arranged. So it was just what's done. But what was going through your mind, I mean you you saw him. You must didn't are you given a choice to say yes or no, or was it given a choice whether you and you say yes or no, and then I couldn't make up my mind. So my mom said if you don't like him, then you can be you don't have to worry about it. And then that time I said well, it's Dad that I think so.

16:46 After you got engaged and how long was it till you got married?

16:52 Between your engagement and your marriage

16:57 I think I just one you okay. See you got a chance to talk to him. It wasn't.

17:06 Where did you put it with being a different cities? Were you living together? Once you got engaged or Justin, we don't live together and we don't even have sex before getting married.

17:26 So all that has according to a religion in all that has to happen later on after you get married. And did you talk to him in that nowadays a car rides 3 and 1/2 4 hours. I mean it's not clothes but then twice when is Bergen he came to Devin and then we used to talk on the phone and he used to write letter almost every Monday. I had a letter A really.

18:04 I didn't know that I was so you got to know him in that in that year.

18:14 Well, what's his name.

18:20 I'm ready in Gujarati means.

18:27 Now obviously you were in South Africa we're here now. So at some point you and Eddie made that decision to move here. So what made you decide or are even not even what made you decide what led up to it? So that's a big change. I can't imagine picking up my family because you had two children by now you had some Lush who is my older brother and then you had me and we were well I know went away we were when we moved I don't know how long you all have been talking about moving. So but you had a family, you know, when to pick up and move to another country. So what what led up to that decision a long time we were thinking of moving because my mom was here. My older brother is here.

19:21 But then every time daddy said no because it's your life for what day and then we didn't want to kind of step out and then is diamond on times for getting bad like a

19:40 I like there was a lot of crimes going on and all that so late 60s early 60 + 267. I think the answer to 70 little bit over 78 was okay, but after their the times are getting very bad before that we could leave a house door open and you know, it always do used to stay open and then it's time when Don you could do that it was even

20:19 Where to see now, it's Converse that the you are not even say stepping out maybe in the evening. You don't understand after 7. Nobody. Nobody wanted to step out said that time it was just starting and then we thought we would have a better life over here. But then sometime if you look at it this 50/50 Daddy got all the social life of a day over here. You have less the time we came.

20:53 We lived in Memphis for a while.

20:58 The rest is about 12 Indian family also.

21:03 Although nowadays play Hindi and a lot of times it was hard to get some of the food that you use different things that we use as far as deciding to move here. Cuz yeah, I didn't think about that. We are social Bunch, but you wanted to kind of get away from the crime or other things were getting bad. You wanted somewhere that what you would feel safer. What about opportunities? Not just getting away from the Convoy getting to do with you.

21:42 Over there I said to go to college usually the whites got the first preference going to the college.

21:51 And then the Indians

21:55 So

21:57 The now things have changed that it's what about

22:09 Now that you thinking back you you decided. Okay, we're doing it we're going to move and you went ahead packed up. Everything packed us up came over here. What were your first impressions or tell actually, you know, what tell me cuz I have vaguely remember I remember being in England for a little bit, you know, and then I guess we came here. So, where did we enter from? Where do we live those first few months. I mean I know where we eventually went up but how do we get there or left South Africa?

22:47 We went to London one of my aunt's daughter is there so we stayed with her for a while, maybe one week and then we came to Toronto Canada.

23:02 And then from there and my uncle is Daiso on the way we visited him.

23:09 And at that time it was it was Martin Rees in the snow for the first time.

23:17 What was that? Like? Oh men. We already excited when we got up in the morning and then it must be at least five inches or so and then in the morning when we got up all the driveway and the roads and everything was cleared up everything so that didn't happen in Memphis to California. So we enter the Port of Entry was California, so

23:55 We stayed there for maybe about 3 weeks or so and then we came to Kansas City with my brother is

24:03 And then we were looking for something.

24:07 We were not sure what we going to do like a bit. Something is in a business or we should go back and even sure what we want and then we said now we should give you the time, you know, you came to a different country completely. So you have to give time you can just rush into something and then something else so he's Uncle son was in Memphis, Tennessee. So one day he called us and he said that the this is a business over here for sale if you want to come and look at it, so he went down and he looked at it and y'all were going to school. So I stayed over there for a while until the school was finished in Kansas City and then we decided to get the bus.

25:07 That's so he moved to Memphis now. I remember.

25:13 I was five. I guess I just turned it off. I've only moved to Memphis then I guess decided that for organ and settle down. I have these memories of in the morning being woken up when it was Pitch Black outside. You know what I'm going to be sleeping bags and used to wake us up and take us to the store that and that he had bought it was like a convenience store and it was more like a grocery store. I guess not like I remember you would wake both of us up take us there and I guess we would sleep a few more hours and then you would take us to school and there was like a back or in like a office area or something like that. So what time where we going? What was the sea we bought that business and then we had one, so

26:09 I wasn't driving at that time, so.

26:13 We went to the store 5 in the morning and then I

26:19 Good night. It was about time about 7 or so. We woke you up and dressed and everything and that he would go and drop you off and then dinner after that I Learned to Drive.

26:35 So by that time remove stinging apartment that was just five minutes away from the store.

26:45 So after that it I would in the morning while you were sleeping that was after the Euro. So do I would go and drop him and then come back home and then I just remember that and I forgot about it till I know not too long ago and I just remember getting Ms. Probably I think the reason I was talking about it is because somebody was telling me how I can sleep at the drop of a hat, you know, and I can sleep anywhere and from that time when I get up and go to the hard.

27:19 Well, that was one of the things you came here. We had one car you didn't drive. So it made it quite difficult when we had to be inside. You know, you had to be somewhere and that he had to be somewhere. What were some of the other difficulties when you moved here, you know, I got to Memphis and I were some of the other difficulties when we went to the store to do the different accents. So and they say something like I get you somebody run that back up two packs of cigarettes they were saying

27:57 What would they say and I would not understand wi one double zero.

28:03 And I would not understand what they're saying. I have to ask two times.

28:10 That is hard to understand what about different places you go. They have different accents. So just as bad. Yeah, yeah.

28:24 What about as far as when we did buy a house, you know, just did you see any other I guess not just difficulties, but

28:37 Maybe just things that you you know, I ran into that were different or you know, how am I ever going to get used to this or things like that sometime you feel like it might be going to get used to this because we were living in apartment then we decided to buy a house and then when it was really hard to get a loan and whatever and finally we got a loan we moved into the house.

29:03 And then like, you know, if up in the beginning you are working so hard so you have less time for social life and whatever so in the beginning it was hard, but then we I think after 2 years or so once we got settled down everybody went to school and everything. We knew few people that we were okay, and I was at first we thought I really going to get used to this feel comfortable being here are like you you belong to her or I could see myself living here. I'm not ready to go back or as that time ever come, you know where you're comfortable here. And then you feel like you belong here because after that I went back to visit my mom and then maybe 85 or so.

30:03 When I went back you feel that now you don't fit in there you he went back home and felt like and what time you like to be day because all the relatives everybody's over there and then it feels like this is the home say after awhile. I need to come back. You want to visit a buddy buddy, but you want to come back. So that's when you started calling Memphis America home then.

30:41 We talked a little bit about this just cuz I have kids now, but what was I like as a child if you can say it in just one or two sentences? What how would you describe what I was like as a child in South Africa for 5 years old and you would talk to anybody you are so busy talking with everybody. So everybody will anybody you should going to get lost run.

31:21 Very social swell. Do you see any?

31:29 I don't ask what about my daddy for a little while? Okay. So what year did he pass away in?

31:42 In two thousand and

31:47 How did life change for you after that?

31:55 I'm not sure.

32:00 You change for all of us. I mean it it did.

32:06 I bet it it brought you to a new part of your life. I mean you're now living with with by with some less but you get to sit. You know when he passed away. He had one grandchild now you have for what you looking at them. What qualities do you see that in them that he had?

32:34 Well, I got use more like him to 172.

32:40 He's gout whatever they had. So.

32:45 I gave him some money. So when he came back I said, did you use so he said that the

32:55 I used all of it because my friends they didn't have anything so I bought for them also. Okay, so I told them later about it.

33:08 Now that he was always wonder if if giving he has to be giving everybody but even if that left him with nothing, what about your three granddaughters, are there any qualities and in them that you say that that he had?

33:31 Yeah, they have a lot of his qualities.

33:38 They are very caring and

33:44 It's okay. We can change the subject.

33:48 It's hard to get there without Kleenex. What about when I decided to get married. We talked about arranged marriages we talked about, you know, that's just what what you did back then well even now in the Indian Community there still arranged marriage is going on. I chose not to go that route.

34:13 So when he found out I was going to marry Keith who was a good friend of mine.

34:20 For a long time you met him when he was just my friend, but then when we decided we were going to get married what kind of thoughts went through your mind.

34:30 Look at first of her daddy was very disappointed.

34:36 Because he always thought that you know, you'll have a Indian Community heating on. Talk about it. And then we talked about after that since you didn't want to leave him. We talked that okay, since you once to do it, we must give her all the support of it not him or you are not you are not sure what's going to happen.

35:21 And you know how every five day is very protective of my daughter.

35:29 Yeah, she's going to be gone and what would happen and you know?

35:36 So what made you came around y'all just cuz I know at first when we set it you both want to know part of it whatsoever. And so, you know, here I am. I'm like, okay, we're just have to plan her own wedding and a half of an American ceremony cuz I can't do the 3 hours that we were kind of on our own and then I think it was a month before we are going to have our wedding is when y'all came around so what you just talked about it and then no renewal decided to have the reading so then we all got together.

36:14 Kamlesh came and we sat and talked about attending.

36:19 Lady say daddy said that we should we must give all the best that we can.

36:25 Yeah, and he walked me down the aisle even in the shark time. We prepared everything the way we want like, you know, we ended up with two wedding because we ended up having an Indian wedding a week after our American one.

36:51 Is there anything you want to ask me?

36:54 Now that you have me on the spot.

36:59 And what do you think about it about what the ready?

37:05 It's I think it's like every marriage, you know, it has its difficulties. We have our ups. We have our Downs more ups and downs. I mean I married him cuz he was you know, my best friend for a long time and in college, I mean we knew each other for Josh.

37:24 8 years before we got married. We have a lot of the psychiatrist. He's a good man. Very honest very willing to help very interested in our culture.

37:39 You're more so than the meat sometimes I'm ashamed to say. I feel like something when we moved here and going to school. It was difficult for me to fit in, you know, cuz I was Indian at home.

37:54 American at school, it was really hard to fit and then it was a private Christian School on top of that really stuck out. And so it's hard for me to adapt. I kind of pushed all my Indian Heritage aside. Do you know I'd I didn't want that part to show and since I met him, like I said, I'm ashamed to say sometimes I don't know that much about myself and it's kind of he's kind of brought that part out in me and especially after the children, you know, after that I kind of want to know more about that. I kind of wish I could have gone back in and found out more about that growing up so sometime I also feel it at 3 on deeper into the Indian culture.

38:45 But it's it was a struggle. I mean just going up, you know almost feeling like I'm two different people, you know, I did the Indian thing and I went home and we did the prayers and we went to the ceremonies and then you know, we might have to drive to school and things like that. But yeah, I mean being at school and being around my American friends, I was a different person I kind of wanted to you know, it kind of push that part but I thought it was, you know, I mean every child struggles without it being different man just showed more because I didn't talk differently than other people.

39:31 But yeah, I mean our I know you see the good in the bad to when you're around us but you know where to individual people but I think together we we work out.

39:43 Anything else you asked me?

39:50 Just ask one last question. Do you see in yourself from your mother?

39:59 My mom likes to laugh a lot and I think I get some of that cuz I find myself trying to answer a question. Just laughing.

40:08 Some of my

40:13 I know how to put it.

40:16 Now that you're in San Antonio and you come to see me, you know, you stay for several weeks at a time and I start seeing more and more of myself and you and Keith will see how you're just like your mother. But you know, I feel like I want to help people out and so, you know, whether it's good or bad if I see somebody doing something I wanted to help him that I want to tell them tell them how to do it, which makes a good thing in my mind. I think I'm helping them out in their mind. I think I'm telling them what to do. You know sometime you not supposed to tell them what to do, but he might make a suggestion that I would think this would be it's up to you to decide but I would think that this wait would be a better I just um, I think that's the big thing is just laughed or you love to laugh, you know, but honestly, I think I'm more like my dad. I think I

41:15 Have those I don't know and you may you may see.

41:25 I think we got two different people. I think I had a closer relationship with my dad.

41:45 If I had to say, you know, which one am I most like I think I'm more like him so close that the yellow always got into argument.

42:01 Thank you both so much.