Richard Kwiecien and Mitchelle Kmiec

00:06 Hi, my name is Michelle come yet, and it's Mitchell with an e at the end. I'm 61 years old and I presently live in Jefferson Park area of Chicago and I'm here with my uncle my dad father and we're we're in Chicago right now, and I'm going to let him introduce himself.

00:29 My name is Richard. Last name is Christian and my age is 78 and I live in Laporte Indiana and I'm here with my niece nature and work now in Chicago.

00:46 And we're here to talk about well where we grew up in the Humboldt Park area of Chicago and my uncle is going to start out telling when when he was born and and take it from there. So when you said you came and when did he buy the house and what date was that before it was way before my time? Yes. Yes. It was because my brothers and I guess your mother also they lived upstairs the second floor with the front. Yeah, because let me just say bye I say that my mom and dad had a grocery in a meat market and it was how it was a old style meat market in the grocery store.

01:45 And up my dad's a self-taught butcher. He was a butcher had the Butcher Block and we call it in the back. We had a walk-in cooler or we had to meet my dad would go to.

02:01 He would go to the market every every second or third day. Bring me back. It was never delivered and likewise bike and put some boxes of candidates, but but we're here to talk about the neighborhood. So anyway,

02:17 The area was very Diversified across the alley was a junkyard and it was owned by a Jewish man named flanzer and across from him was up machine shop in across the street. Was it Tavern in down? The street was a grocery store.

02:39 Judging by the mix of the people in the types of homes and synagogues. It seemed like the neighborhood was predominantly Jewish at one time.

02:50 But gradually the Jewish people moved elsewhere and the poles moved in they found in a Catholic church called Saint Fidelis, and my dad was one of the founders.

03:04 And it was a Catholic school there which I attended and there was there was a Catholic High School josephinum will write it was because it was all residential then how big was Saint Fidelis when it opened how many students did they have? Probably a hundred maybe I presume. I don't know exactly but it's just Saint Joseph always so jolly.

03:34 So

03:36 And then it grew and the whole family went there everybody graduated from there even some of your nieces and nephews graduated from work. And then and then you went to in Jefferson Park is I mean, I'm sorry Humboldt Park on the northwest side and it was predominantly polish parades going through there and big Polish conglomerates. What traditions do you remember growing up?

04:09 Traditions that are external things in the park

04:17 Well, first of all, there was a statue of a the man's name was told they were supposed to score and that's his Ted questions. God and Kosciusko woman. They're not polish obviously, but that statue is there it was it was revered. It was not your people walked around and looked at it. It was something very nice and

04:51 Where was I?

04:53 About about the neighborhood the Polish at the parades of Praise in the park. And other than that externally that's about it. But but as far as internally like our grocery store Meat Market, we care of things that that were very interesting I things that were eaten by polka Polish people. One of them was the middle which is that's how it's made from duck duck blood. I remember I mean when your brother took over the grocery store, I mean, that's the one I

05:49 I mean I was when I was born he already had but the grocery store and I remember the credit card box in front where they wouldn't allow credit and people would come in at the end of the month and pay their pay their monthly grocery bills. Did I do have that two or was he had no, he helped a lot of people and he got well, but there was a grocery store on every other corner. There was there was a Tavern and every other corner and and and usually near a church. There was a funeral home and Anna bar, right?

06:28 So so

06:31 I was going to say something about what you're talking about the credit system that my brother use but what my dad use brown paper bags brown paper bags and when someone would come in and they didn't have the money he gave him whatever they wanted on the paper bag was their name and why and all the price on the cost were written on there and it was written with

07:08 An indelible pencil so that nobody could change it or add to it or have you? Yes, it was purple and the way you made it right and an indelible is when you put it on your tongue, so my dad definitely had a purple tongue so many people that he helped and coincidentally and subsequently.

07:38 A long time after that someone would come in and they say something like, you know, I found this in my mother's bedroom closet. Is this something that we should pay and if this was so rewarding my mother and dad couldn't imagine that somebody would hold this piece of paper that they owed money and then subsequently come in and pay for it. These are the kinds of people that we had in our neighborhood whether they were Jewish with a dimmer polish, whatever they were predominantly honest and mostly honest we didn't have to worry too much about break-ins. We are fights were in the neighbors lift. Somebody died out. I'm down the block or in the next block. It was a collection in a card at the store where everybody would sign it and mega, you know, 50 Cent or dollar donation and give it to the family or send flowers and

08:38 You can beat you can be outside until whatever time and you know, people knew each other and their ended not everybody had a phone or it was I remember the party line phone, you know you and you had to pick up the phone in. Excuse me. I'd like to use the phone. Okay fine and I mean no arguing or anything, you know, and I remember the bakery being delivered or yes to the CO2 when Uncle Ted have the store and they put the bakery on the first landing of the tray is none of the food was still at the bread was still warm in the bonds through all of that was delivered before the store was open so so it was deposited in the hallway. And now the interesting thing was when we live there we meeting my wife and me Helen.

09:28 I had buns almost every day and then he told my mother we had warm buns every morning.

09:51 State on throughout what time. You each lived in the neighborhood neighborhood to rhymes with that rhymes with Heaven is 1957 when I got married and I was there from 1951 until about 1973 when I move to Jefferson Park, but for those ears my uncle lived downstairs for me, and he I just remember he was always there for me and took me every place and I cried at his wedding and they don't they don't they won't let me forget that but I just remember the neighborhood being so friendly and I mean everybody knew everybody I don't I pass there now and there is there is a gate, you know, like a big fence around her.

10:51 Building where we live and it's under a management company and it was it was just

11:00 It was a good time. I N I was I think I'm grateful. They had I lived during the. Of time, you know, we used to play outside and nobody uses draw with chalk on the sidewalk and play games outside. And I and even I remember we were talking before about you know, the vendors that even would come down the street. So, you know the ice truck in the in the vegetables of guy in the knife sharpener and we used to be even be able to play ball in the alley and this was before before the game just came in the vendor would be going down the alley sink or Buddha Key Largo to Key Lime i t. Suzuki and what that means is pickles pickles for your mother and the muscular and the daughter so it's pickles pickles for mothers and daughters in Polish.

12:00 Google Temecula turkey so that was that was getting back to 2 when I was younger in this neighborhood. We played on the street. I couldn't believe that cars would just wait for us. We play baseball in the street. We play football on the street. We would play Hiding hide-and-seek games. Like there was one called ring-a-levio. I don't even know what that means. But anyway, there was a game like that that we would play and roller skate roller skate and you know, and just and we haven't we would have you know, we're friends or had his where was Flanders right behind the house later. No leopard them feel empty lot was next door.

13:00 A block away, and it was like a hat while half a block away and then it wasn't Kelsey's Bar that was on the other corner across the street from us that was there. And then there was a candy store a block south of us and Penny candies and in newspapers polish newspapers, and I'm told cigarettes but I well yes it is. Just a thing. There was he would sell cigarettes most of the time it was Marvel's but the man was shrewd cigarettes were 20 in a package and they cost a dime but if you sold them individually for a penny sense for that package.

13:50 Set up a time. Yeah, he was he was a quiet man, but he was sharpeners and pencils to buy these little Wasted by these little of what it called bull's-eyes sit around and sell it with soap. So anyway, that was so but that the neighborhood was it wasn't called quiet. I wouldn't say quiet but it was kind of congenial are people knew each other they help each other.

14:42 Also taverns did not have beer bottles and in cans of beer at that time it was on tap and so you would be able to tell what time it was because at about 5 or so, maybe 5:30 6:00, the ladies would come with their little bucket and go over to the tavern and get a bucket of beer because Dad's coming home from work. And so here you see these ladies walking with these little buckets of beer going on for Dad because that's got to have his beer. I don't remember but I remember this that I'm telling you about and I remember uncle Ted we go after we close the store at 8 in the evening. So that was so but the word that there of course there wasn't that many cars on the streets when you were like it. Yeah, I guess you can say that I guess you would say they're not

15:42 For sure, right but where they're most I mean from what I remember most of the houses were like one family even though they were like two or three stories with Apartments.

15:58 Was there a mean it was one family at it? We was most of the time it was one family sometime. It was too and related somehow that they shared a bathroom because it was baby one bathroom between two favorite to family had lived in a house that had six Apartments six. Was it 1 2 3 yes sex with a door front and it was the corner of corner building and the top floor. He had two apart while three Apartments but one was split and that's the one that had the bathroom in the middle and was shared apartment.

16:44 Was actually one apartment but then during the Depression you couldn't rent it because it was too big. So they that where you live or where we live right? That was a four-room apartment, right? But up on the third floor. That was a single apartment across the same kind of apartment was that ever split? So what happened now in the third floor, they made it a foreigner to submit. They would be able to rent out the tool room to rent out the Forum now.

17:28 But then it what happened between those two foreign to there was a closet that was made into a bathroom and that had a tub in it. Also that was shared by the two so that was just in and then there was the game started moving in and that's when you saw the neighbor changed, but prior that mom used to tell me about and switch Chicago is known for the gangsters and she and she used to tell me about that. They would come into the store and they were very nice but there was one incident where she said they came in and ask for protection money and Dad you refused and then the next day the windows were broken.

18:22 And she told me and she says but they would come in and one of the guys was Jaden girl down the street he come in and he buy things and it was his very nice very, you know.

18:37 Isn't she told me to about Uncle caustic when he helped my brother? So that make yeah, where where he caught somebody taking something from cuz he's too selfish and big barrels and somebody took a fish from the barrel and put it in their pocket.

19:00 Check money and when he went to the checkout, but I think it was Dad just says, okay, you know, this is what you owe plus that's great. That's grandfather. And when he went to the checkout to pay he was asking what the extra charge was for and it was tell for the fish in your pocket. My dad with you.

19:30 My father's name is Stanley or it was

19:37 He was a wonderful man that I didn't know until I was about 21.

19:43 After my mother died at my mother was of the dominant person in the family. She spoke English better than my dad. Did my dad spoke broken English and my dad was up very early before I got up and he was working late at night after I was sleeping ready. So we are waiting interface much is a week. I wrote subsequently it was that half a day on Sunday, but I mean it was open like from 6 in the morning till 8 at night. Yeah, but so it was a lot different to and there were no

20:36 Superstars you don't like no jewels and

20:47 The things that also also the things that you could buy my Polish sausage you can buy and we would make Polish sausage in the store not in the store, but I'm in back of the store and we had a Smokehouse in the basement with a smoker in the basement. So often the sausage would be brought down into the basement and then might one of my brothers or I would have to sit there while this thing is spoken in the 70s. I remember dad you would start making mixing and cutting them the meat and putting it in a Brine and a big tub, you know, like on Wednesday and it would marinade on Thursday. He start making the sausage and we smoke at Thursday night and have it for the weekend in around Easter and Christmas. You couldn't even get in the store.

21:47 That move the way would come to like to the store to buy the sausage because they like the sausage so well, so but I am and then and then he had bad apple orchard and where you're living now and use do I remember going there and and picking the apples and bring them back in and selling them in the store that we had a Reese's so apples and tomatoes write anything that he knew there was fresh and killing chickens chickens chickens in the base. We have no this year winter time the winter time to run the basement. We also killed turkeys at Thanksgiving and I'm not going to say what the different processes but there's a different way to kill a turkey. There's a different way to kill a duck. There's a different way to kill a chicken need

22:43 When we kill the doc we save the blood when we turkey why when we brought him home.

22:57 So that was spray and up woman would come into the store and and she want to check in and to get up and go downstairs and bring two or three of them up and she feel them underneath and you know, and then all I want that one, you know, so that that would be marked for that person that person ordered their own Chicken special. So we'll see what it is. But you know, she wouldn't but you do keep in touch with any of the people be at you grew up with their

23:32 No, not anybody know.

23:37 No, it's just we're so far as work the app to the I mean I passed through there cuz I went to josephinum high school. And when I went there was it was already not a residential school, but it's still in existence. Would it be by residents pictures of Christian charity and it was German German influence in I think it was before the depression a lot. There were a lot of Catholic high schools that were I don't know what you called that residential but you would live there and then you went to Holy Trinity what you do and it's in the I don't know what they call that area now, it's near the Polish Museum, but predominantly

24:34 Polish. Yes, I mean they I was yeah it was but I mean we going back to Humboldt Park itself, you know, we used to go families used to go there and Sunday and not going to meet your friends there. And when we when I was in eighth grade are big things for the year was we would get to have a day off from classes and see if Nick at the park you bring your laundry bring your blanket and we played ball with the nuns and everybody there was a Boathouse there. I think it's still there. I think they were the other thing it just kind of kind of tells you how different ethnic groups live together and whatever in the Humboldt Park there was a little Island.

25:26 And we used to call the Jews Island. And the reason it was called Jews Ireland is because some very fervent Jewish people mostly men would go to this island to pray and it was it was like something very different. It was a it was a little island with you the Jewish people or Jewish men walk across the bridge and go there to pray and we would always with your at them sometime but I mean, it's not like we would throw anything or whatever but we were kids were pug, you know where my phone around and but that was the Jews Ireland and let's see what else was in Humboldt Park Park had a big cup boat house. They had boats on the water at work there.

26:26 We're walking over to the pool at Augusta. But even in the engine in the winter, they would he have, you know, freeze the pond where we could go I go I mean and nobody was when I was Grime. Nobody was afraid to walk to the park, you know, maybe spend the whole day there and parents weren't afraid to to let their kids go by themselves and you'd be there all day from 8 in the morning until whenever you know, there's one thing I want to add that you brought you brought up that you know, you said your event and so well church is Catholic churches where they were

27:14 Let's see. You would have the Polish Church st. Fidelis. And now you go the other way across Western Avenue. That was it was a German church. Now you go the other way Suite marks St. Marks with an Irish Church, the Irish would move here at the Portugal here that up and they have known churches and they were beautiful gorgeous. Okay, but I don't I don't remember the the synagogues. Where was the synagogue that you said? They only remember one being on Spalding you said there was one on Lemoyne 3 on Lemoyne really when I was a kid. Yeah, and there's some sort of a Jewish.

28:10 At what would you call it the ceremony or celebration or whatever it is? I think it is seldom celebration of food or fruits and vegetables because I'm on my way to school. I would see there with this lattice work next to the synagogue would be full of apples and full of cherries and grapes and that but we never bothered that we walked right by it because it wasn't all right from the about five blocks from from and we're I remember I remember looking out the second-floor window where we live from watching uncle Ted. Take Jean and joy who are my cousins and my brother in the car and driving them to school when I started school.

29:04 Gina joy for out of there. So I had to walk the same thing with Polish Polish classes, Jean joy, and my brother took polish its infidelis. When I started they had stopped those Polish language classes teach me English.

29:29 Just so you know, who did you speak Polish at home or my mother my mother spoke English better than my dad. But other than that we spoke polish.

29:41 And they were well and they they were both born in in Poland and neighbouring Villages, but came here to the states and married here in the states, right they at

29:58 What is your mother's name for the record? My mother's name was Bernice same last name?

30:06 Well, it really was brownie. Suava.

30:14 Don't have a middle name. He's a good guy. He was very good. And I remember every every weekend when Boucher my great-grandmother Richards mother would make a car. What's a cheese bread and we would all be sitting by the table waiting for it to come out of the oven so we could put the butter on it and eat it or she would make her apple pies and put them out on the windowsill the cool. I mean it was just that one makes chords. I am making sometimes two or three tradition that's carried on and I think it's pretty good your kids carry on any of these tradition.

31:09 I know well our oldest daughter Tracy she tries to do some cooking of sorts. She lives in New Orleans and I don't know what they called. The Italians have a tradition, whereby they have tables and tables of food that is similar to St. Joseph St. Joseph. They may be so sew in

31:46 Right, but I mean, so what traditions do you keep up now at your house filled dumpling we could all get filled them as we we we make the most of them at Christmas time because our kids come and they want to take a pill get back. They want to take him back home with him and I were always you should Christmas Eve with meatless. That's right. So, you know, I'm

32:26 I want to thank God. I'm glad we did this.

32:29 Well, I just who I am and I am too. I think I don't let me say I don't think that people think about the past as much as they should there were so many good things in the past that we don't have now. We have all these fancy things in the fancy TVs in the and all of computers and computer and but we got along and we listen to the radio anymore. We got to know family. We got to think about things in and not just a marine doing research in Annville library or instead of just pressing a button and I'm grateful for the time that I am grateful for the family that I had.

33:23 And

33:26 I'm glad that again that you came all the way from Indiana to do move with me. Thank you. It means a lot 55 years and counting.

33:50 Doing or having then that you missed now.

33:58 I missed the family celebrations.

34:02 Well, that's probably the biggest thing when we live there after I got married. We would have a Christmas we would have many people does the Forum Apartments how many people there was always enough food and then there was always enough room. I mean it was never like all you know, where are they going to sit? Everybody found a place and Anna for room for rent with a big piano in one corner, you know, but there was always enough food and we enjoyed each other. I mean we wasn't there was no fighting or arguing or anything who or what did you say or anything? And I miss the family. I mean now I'm basically I'm by myself and how it is it hard for me.

34:57 What do you think change that?

35:01 People moving away every now everybody jobs take you everywhere death.

35:13 And I'm basically that I think it's it's at and you know, I'm going to getting older and and moving away because of the opportunities are no longer people don't you now stay within the city within the town where they grew up because companies are all over opportunities are all over there is no longer. It's not just want you. Do you know you either a lawyer or doctor or grocery person year. There's so many other outlets that you can go into and you have to go one of the jobs there and it makes it hard it makes it hard for holidaily continue those Traditions, but I mean, I am grateful for all the traditions in and I try to keep them up, you know the little bit that I can but holidays are hard.

36:04 I still make some of the foods and I share with my friends. I'm taking up some of the things that my grandmother taught me like hanning and I share that with my friends. I have friends who are of Polish descent and they they invite me for the holidays and even though I mean, it's the same but it's not the same because it's not to Traditions or the way. My grandmother used to make the food. It's similar, but it's not the same.

36:38 Just to give you an example of just how families are dispersed. We have a family in California. We have family in New Orleans with family in Ohio York via fat. Yes. We have family in New York all that people are dispersed all over the place and it's hard to get together.

37:09 So this is been wonderful. Wonderful, and I I'd like to thank the record for the opportunity to do this.

37:20 Thank you.

37:31 The family that you don't see that often or for the future generations of the family. They mention to send back to me. What would you like them to know about you?

37:41 You know what, you know about the family.

37:47 We had a very loving family.

37:51 And it when I would say is that yes family is very important and

38:04 People should keep in touch more often than they do some people in our family. We haven't seen or talked to for years and years and there's no logical reason for that. We had never done anything against these people and it was just their choice and their choice, but I would like to know what I would like to say to people who listen is enjoy your family yours them because your life can change in a second.

38:41 Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

38:49 Again for the record, my name is Michelle. It's mitchelle Camanche. I'm 61 years old just a couple days and I live in Jefferson Park in Chicago now, and I was here to talk about the Humboldt Park area and growing up and I'm here with my uncle my godfather and we're in Chicago and it's September 9th 2012.

39:23 Which is anglicize for catching which is how it's really sitting polish. I'm 78 years old and I live in

39:34 LaPorte, Indiana, I'm here with

39:40 With my niece my goddaughter and

39:44 When Chicago in today's date is September 9th 2012. Thank you.

39:56 I said