Carla Sameth and Gabriel Johnson

00:02 Carla Rachel Samus 54 November 8th 2013, Los Angeles, California mom

00:17 Gabriel Johnson 17

00:22 On the date is November 8th 2013.

00:26 Where in Los Angeles California and I'm the Sun?

00:33 Okay, mom, so

00:36 I'm ask you a few questions. What was the happiest moment of your life?

00:46 I think

00:52 It's some kind of it falls somewhere in between.

00:56 When I knew that I was going to be able to that the pregnancy with you, but that was that I was pregnant it was going to continue on that. It looks like it was going to be a healthy pregnancy cuz I've had a lot of miscarriages before and then when I first I first met you in person outside of the womb

01:22 Right after I gave birth to you.

01:26 About the saddest moment of your life.

01:34 That's a really hard question.

01:38 It's a really hard question. I used to know the one.

01:45 Well

01:50 I think a lot of the sad moments.

01:54 They all feel like they were kind of condensed into when sometimes you know of losing.

02:02 Losing all the pregnancies and

02:07 And I'll feel sort of condensed into one now at your age of when I've seen you in pain and struggling with.

02:16 Substance abuse

02:19 When I saw you wandering around at the Metro like before we got out of the car when Margo and I went to pick you up that time when you took all the pills.

02:29 And we watched you for a second and you were staggering around. I'm just like

02:35 Like somebody else

02:40 And then seeing you.

02:47 Seeing you.

02:51 Suck for me. So close to the possibility of death. That was

02:57 I was sad, but it was bittersweet because you're still alive and you are still alive. And as long as you're still alive there still hope.

03:08 Okay. Thank you.

03:13 Who is been the kindest to you in your life?

03:22 As she's a really great questions.

03:27 They're so it's I feel like I'm there have been some really beautiful kind people in my life. And for some reason it's

03:39 Really hard for me to come up with

03:43 One person in particular. Can I come back to that we have time because that

03:55 In some ways. You're the person we call Uncle Henry.

04:01 He kind of like gave me something almost like unconditional love like what you get from your. Supposed to get from your parents.

04:09 And he

04:14 When we were first falling in love and we are talking about its being scared about growing old and he said I'd like to grow old with you and

04:27 He took care of me during some really when I was sick or different times and it really loving way and he's still in our lives and calls to tell me how much

04:40 He cares about you and me and

04:44 So I guess that's the kind of thing. He ever. But the one thing is really hard.

04:53 Except for something kind of silly with Uncle Henry to when we were first going out that we I was really we worried a lot about money and my family when I was younger and I didn't by very many new clothes and I wanted to buy this I bought this suit at the store opened up called Lohman set my mom remembered from the Bronx for old ladies like old Jewish ladies and grab clothing on someone else's arms and they were rock bottom prices and they opened wine in Bellevue and I went and I found a suit and a very expensive back room and it just seems so incredibly expensive and crazy and it was that fit me really great and it looked beautiful and it was I think it might have been $100 and so I took took it home and I don't remember what the plan I guess I was working by then so I probably paid for it, but I just couldn't live with the idea of spending that much money on a suit. So I went back to Loehmann's and beg them to take it back and then they took it back and then I felt really terrible.

05:53 I always thought that was the suit that got away. So when I first met Henry we were kind of going out and our first Valentine's Day. I think her birthday birthday. He showed up with a black suit cuz he wasn't the same suit, but somehow he got a suit that fit me perfectly and I just remember it was it was pretty amazing said yeah. I just described you. I said that you kind of look like this to the salesperson and her bunch of kind of like that and I had the perfect fitting suit and I remember my grandma Stella said, I'm not sure that's right getting a whole thing isn't buying me a suit, but she left.

06:38 How did you choose my name?

06:42 Okay, so your dad and I both really love the name Gabriel and we had always planned to name. If you are a girl you're going to be God real or rose rose after your grandmother who died your dad's mom and then we are found out I think either Gabriel Raphael. I think one of the two I think Gabriel the angel that told I don't remember which is which went there both angels. And when is the angel that told Sarah you're going to have a baby and Sarah in the Bible was like 90 years old and that's how old I felt by the time I was going to have you do is 36 but it felt likeninety and then the other one was an angel that the other one means. I think Raphael one of them being Scott has healed and that's how I felt that by being able to give birth to you. It really heals like

07:34 A lot of the sadness of losing all those pregnancies and yeah, I gave her all who is because somebody said that Gabriel your full name is Gabriel Yosef Rafael. Somebody said that Gabriel and Raphael was to Ramey like Auntie Jane's so we stuck Joseph in between so what's the plan and I can't remember which went with that one me and that it might have been Jay for Grandpa Jim and our Rafael was also for your grandma Rosie. That's how I fell Johnson John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt.

08:18 Yeah, I'm not sure why.

08:22 I got I guess I found the right now why it's Yosef, but I think I would have liked it better. If it was just Gabriel Raphael Johnson, but I can see how that can be to write me back. I like that. I like kind of like how it's a little bit by me. It was going to be Joseph and then your dad wanted something different. He said how about Yousef? And I said, I don't know. It's a little tough sometimes what you wish family because the very air open it, you know, so maybe else's but yeah, I agree Gabrielle Rafael's is fine to be bad. If it was like a Arabic name not to me and a lot of juice to come from Arabic countries are great grandpa. Great-great-grandfather supposedly started in Palestine went to Turkey and then pick some name off of somewhere when he went to germinate. So it's past so we probably have family in from a long time ago in those places.

09:22 Okay, so did you ever get divorced and can you tell me about it? You know the answer. Can you tell me about the divorces?

09:33 Wow, that's tough with the first divorce was from your your dad.

09:39 And we

09:43 What do you want to know exactly about do you want the divorce? We we fell in ouimette.

09:51 We met at working together and your dad. I just had a crush on me and I went off to marry someone else that didn't work out. I came back I ran into your dad and I was already trying to have a baby on my own.

10:04 And I ran into your dad and at some point told him what I was doing.

10:10 And he said, how'd you like to have a baby with me?

10:15 But the reality is we kind of both felt like we fell in love and kind of can't we both really wanted a baby your dad felt like he was old and his family tonight. I've had a baby and we whether we were in love or we convinced ourselves here in love. We felt like do you know I felt really like it's great. I can fall in love and have a baby, you know, and but we did not we had a lot of problems when we were together and I didn't have any I didn't have the ability to deal with the really explosive anger pretty much when I found out that I was pregnant with you. I had just before that decided I'm going to give up and start again and get healthy and pull together and go adopt a baby and then I thought I was pregnant with you and it was wonderful and that one that one lasted but your dad and I only lasted about 8 months.

11:12 After you were born, we just you know, kind of had we tried we went to couples counseling and there was sort of a limit, you know to like the next time something happened.

11:27 Whether it was

11:29 You know lashing out physically or mentally swearing that that was going to be it and that's what happened, you know, and and so then we separated but we were actually married now that we were legally separated and we didn't get her final divorce until just before I got married to Macaulay.

11:47 Is that hard for you to hear this? Yeah and magali and I that was probably the hardest experience. I don't know if that was one of the questions that I ever had trying to get a divorce it from there. We're actually still married.

12:05 So we got to remember we got married to Macaulay your ex stepmom in Canada. And because same-sex marriage hasn't been legal until now until now we haven't been able to get a divorce but our domestic partnership was dissolved and I guess once we separated and I realized again I was with someone with a really uncontrollable temper again, I wasn't handling it well and this time it was a lot of it was directed towards you.

12:37 I just couldn't be with her anymore. And that's what happened. But it was a really hard decision because getting divorced from Maggie met splitting up this family that I so badly. Wanted to stay together me and you and your sister Samantha.

12:55 And that is probably right in there was one of the most painful things in the world losing are, you know not having Samantha with us?

13:05 Cuz I felt like from the very soon when we got together. I felt like she was just meant like that word but Sheraton in Yiddish or Hebrew that means it's your beloved your intended. It's meant to be I feel like she was just like that connection between you and her and between me and her like

13:27 Now having all this experience with marriage and divorce. What advice do you have for me in when I get married?

13:37 Wow, that's a really good question.

13:45 I think this is one of the great things about the unfortunate part of you being having being an addict being is out going through all the 12-step process. I'm seeing how much how different it would have been for me. If I had to go through all this stuff beforehand. So, you know yourself and you don't get together stay with someone out of a sense going to like while I really need this because I want to have a baby or because I don't want I want our family to stay. I want a family and went to blended family. So the two marriages I had there was some really over writing factors and

14:26 That kind of kept

14:29 I mean, I guess the main thing is I'm going to I'm standing around this one is

14:35 Think about how safe you feel in the relationship. Think about how passionate you feel in the relationship. Think about how much of yourself you can hold onto another relationship and at the same time how much you can give in that relationship and give it time so that you really even though it feels right. Let's say that you meet someone it feels right. You just know because some people do and they stay together for the rest of their last give it some time. I used to joke and say people should get divorced before they they should practice a divorce so they know how to behave during that. But get bit.

15:15 But I would say the more that you know yourself the more that you have learned about how to deal with a really tough emotions and situations. And then the other thing that we we said, but we really didn't hold on to it was the importance of community. So like if you have a strong community of friends, so neither you or your spouse or dependent just on the other and they support the marriage and they and they'll be there for you when there's difficulties. So you're not like on this little ship isolated cuz I don't really think that whole what do you call that a nuclear family is the most healthy situation. I think you did the extended community.

15:57 So you don't isolate but I think the more you know yourself in the more you sit feel safe in your life and who you are then the more you'll be able to recognize what isn't healthy and what is safe and what feels really good.

16:15 You know and relationships can be as addictive as drugs. So you have to be really careful that you don't get stuck because of some not just like oh, I really want to be married cuz I like the idea. I really want a baby but I really

16:32 But what about just like it's so passionate. I can't stay away from this person. You want to have that passion, but you have to know that that love and passion changes. So you'll have that deep Passion Pit as a relationship deepens metalco to a different level and I guess

16:53 Everything that you're learning right now and they're making you down at 12 stuff all those things and everything. You learned about taking a breath and how you communicate and all everything that down talks about. What is it? What are those words to use about how you

17:06 Activate ankle and you can ask

17:11 The more that work you doing that way than where you can recognize. Okay, that person said that to me and all the sudden I'm escalating while why is that it usually goes Way Beyond

17:22 What is going on between you and that person? Am I making sense anger is like a secondary emotion that usually goes behind like sadness or desperation or other different, you know emotions that are

17:41 You know the primary emotions and we're so easy to go to anger.

17:49 Because it's the easiest to go to.

17:52 And sometimes it's a lot easier than to go to happiness. Yeah, that's for sure happen is I guess it takes a little bit more effort.

18:03 Yeah, I mean, I just feel like whoever it is once you decide and you make that decision and you really feel right about it then ask for help when you need it and like you said about how easy it is to go, but you just said two.

18:19 To anger over another one like try to really stop and pause and figure it out. And really I mean as much as I hated all the arguments and the fighting in my family, there's one value that I really did appreciate was a sense of loyalty that like when you unravel it all I see that my dad did have that I sense of loyalty and like and my mom to like whenever somebody got sick or died cuz I was like, okay we got to cut quick got to go over there to extended family to family. So it's that sense of like you're not going to just dump that person because you go through a rough patch or you get angry. You're not going to just run out the door and never come back. But that takes Looking Back Now, it takes so much more self-awareness then probably would I had

19:03 I hope that makes sense. Thank you.

19:10 Part of these relationship

19:15 Well

19:17 From Marriage

19:19 Well, I guess just I wasn't around really when I guess I was around when you and my dad were married because he hasn't got divorced. It was like 11:00 12000 other reasons for the second marriage.

19:34 I kind of felt like you know, there was

19:38 I didn't really see the love in it. I saw a lot of that.

19:42 Infatuation that you know, I'd like a lot of I feel like everyone kind of goes through in relationships before they realize that they don't really know the person really well. They're just looking for a companion which is totally understandable. So I guess

20:03 If you ever do get married again.

20:07 I'd like to see that you know, that's actually Jen you genuinely love each other and that you really know the person you've spent a lot of time.

20:18 Like I know some people will be dating in like happy boyfriend girlfriend for like or girlfriend girlfriend or boyfriend boyfriend for like 5-10 years until I really know the whole side of that person's there is no surprises when you guys get married cuz I got I plug it when people get married they get more comfortable in their able to show it was like, all right Bogart married, so I guess I can show you who I really am and then that person didn't even know that other side that person exists it and they're so surprised but

20:56 Didn't take enough time to really look and see what person was and it wasn't.

21:02 That openness that should have been there before they got married.

21:07 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

21:12 Yeah, and you're right in this case infatuation. It wasn't so much like it was maybe like around like the romance of it and the idea of having a family in the blended family and how it all fit. It was like the desire for that overriding you no overriding the good sense of really getting to know someone over time and checking out those warning signs. I got him up.

21:34 Yeah.

21:37 Can I have to keep your eyes open? I guess, you know.

21:42 Something's I guess it's sad but it look too.

21:47 They seem Roy, you know nice and you know, it may seem nice to have like, you know, like for me to have a stepping out step sister and you don't have a whole family and cuz I never I don't have any siblings really good for you know, and I wanted to adopt assertive and I just wanted the family that can be kind of

22:09 I can seem very you know.

22:13 Exciting but I guess

22:16 Before I guess in my if for obese for me, I would want to I would want to be more of a personal thing with me no matter what if she already had, you know, a daughter or son or are you know, I would want to know I would want to know if I really want to do with this person before I knew that because even if I did want a son or a daughter because I want to know if this person is the right person for me. I believe you're as many people many women, you know.

22:48 Out there for me. I guess it's not just like this one person that's meant for me. I don't believe there is many people who are met whom would be great matches, but

23:00 It involves, I guess a lot of Dino commitment into finding out about that person's almost like but I'd be can't get one side and I guess of our other duties cuz I feel like emotions can also complicate everything else that's going on like with work and with it and if I already had two kidney or taking care of that kid got to complicate things and I forget to do my duty. So, you know as a human being cuz love is very powerful or infatuation love is everything all that is a very powerful thing and it brings up and it kind of me very powerful and can just

23:44 Override everything else at that moment I guess so, I guess that I'd be suffice for myself to say. Okay. Look at that. Yeah, cuz of course I kind of went to like do you mean that I forgot to take care of you do know where my work and that it was just more advice for me. Yeah, I know but you're right especially when you talk about when I think infatuation like the kind words like you just so romantic like oh you can't let you feel like got to have that, you know, really that sort of obsessive love. It is much like a Dixon where you you do forget those other you can neglect other things. So I'm going to go on to it for a while. I'm so what are you do for a living?

24:37 I know, you know I run my own PR business. That's how I make my money.

24:46 Pretty much since 1999 when I realized that I had to like get out of the non-profit world and find a better way to support us.

24:57 And it was a really great way for a while until they do you know the recession but I guess at the end of the day what I feel like consider I am as a writer but that isn't how I make, you know, when when I get paid or don't get paid for writing isn't how I support us and I'm okay with that.

25:17 Do you enjoy your job?

25:20 I have sometimes really love my job like at time. It isn't like I grew up thinking I do when I grow up. I want to be a publicist but

25:29 Sometimes it's been really wonderful like I get to step into all these other worlds. Like when I was working on it with a fashion company with my shaper I get to I just I get to know people I get to see people like grow themselves are like same musicians are artists or writers. I got to help them get known and so I feel like I'm making an impact. I feel like I'm telling a story so sometimes I really love it. But sometimes I really hate it and I would say that in the last and sometimes I just feel like it's like slinging hash. It's just this is how I support myself, you know, that's what it is, but it's always been hard for me not to throw myself into my work and to just say it. This is what I'm doing to you now and PR has changed a lot because media

26:18 Everything has changed a lot in the last year's journalism everything so it's not become such a pleasant way to earn a living anymore.

26:28 A few what's your ideal occupation? If you can just change right now right now, it would be writing. I'm working with kids. Probably Junior High and high school age.

26:48 I want to be like 30 years ago. I would have thought all I want to work with young women, but now I'm almost have said that you know working with young man, but I guess young men and young women helping them to tell their story is yeah, I would be teaching I would be just working with them on creative writing and and then I would be doing my own writing to and doing some mentoring and probably maybe God forbid. I would still be doing a teeny bit of PR for something that I really really cared about.

27:20 Well, that sounds interesting.

27:25 When you plan on retiring?

27:28 Or do you ever plan on retiring? I so wish I could right now. I used to always say if I had my way I would have liked, you know three for three kids at least and I'd just be ready and you know, I don't know when I'm going to be able to retire, but I would love to be able to spend more time writing.

27:48 Cooking Garden

27:52 You spend more time around little kids as well as teenagers. So I'm not answering your question because I don't see a path to retirement. But I imagine by my seventies and less I'm at the ArcLight introducing movies that's going to be hard with your ugly. I'll still be riding. I hope as long as my brain is still there with chocolate and I know whatever is closest. I'm really cool. So

28:25 But lessons has your work-life taught you

28:30 One thing I always used to feel baby before this big recession, even though I always say I worry about being an old bag lady.

28:41 Used to feel and I guess I said that I could always find a way to support myself and the family cuz I have worked at so many different things ranging from you know, a Bagel Factory Chinese restaurant.

28:54 Restoring Rune sticky mud in the cracks of ruins and then so many different kinds of jobs. So I think it's taught me in some ways like

29:06 That you know that it it gave me resilience and a sense of being able to take care of my family and in that way maybe because my dad did so many different jobs to teach and janitor jukebox Stocker liquor store at engine teaching at Community College. I pretty much have the same thing like I can do it. Yeah, I do anything. Yeah.

29:35 So I'm going to relation little bit.

29:41 It's about your own your religious beliefs or spiritual me soon. I believe they're kind of they're really different and but can you tell me about

29:53 My new religion and culture has been really important to me being Jewish and I sort of seeing it as being fundamental to like like laughter, you know cynicism survival.

30:06 Food

30:09 Family humor

30:15 And that's just been I've always felt this kind of connection and nature and but at the same time, you know it as you know, a lot of Jewish families people don't believe in God, it's almost like a taboo kind of the nine you have to say that you're praying or that your religious and that's really hung me up in that Al-Anon thing trying to do the higher power thing because you know, I always kind of like praying in private or like when you know, I mean I just was like would never admit to anyone that that I do pray but speaking praying God or a higher power, okay?

31:03 Supposedly I just finished third step and Ellen on so I do believe there is something greater than us. And there is whatever you want to call it higher power God. It is a hard word because it always denotes some image up there above us, but I definitely think there is something larger than us at that I pray to and talk to and have started to give it give it over my

31:31 Sounds like I control everything and I can say OK. It's beyond me help me. Help me not just the old ways. He pays to pray when I was really desperate like help me. I can't survive. Like don't let me fall. That class kind of thing a little bit different now. It's like help me pause. Let's see. What's next now. Wait, do you believe in God or what? Do you think about the whole God thing in the whole religion thing? What's your how do you see yourself in? That way? I don't believe that. I'm religiousness early and all I'm going to

32:05 I am Jewish but I don't consider myself, you know, religiously Jewish girl still go out and celebrate all holidays by do I do consider myself spiritual? I do pray at 8 to I call I call him her whenever it is God because it's just it's easier to generic, you know term that I can use and you know, I when I first start praying to God it was it looks like this old white man beard and you know, just the white microbe on that's what it looks like. That's what when I pictured God that's what that's what was advertised everywhere. So I took what I saw his God, but now I'm started I'm starting to kind of developer another

32:51 Vision of what my God is and it would probably nature cuz it's all around me and something that is it that I consider it, you know, it's definitely higher powers on greater than myself and so it can be especially can be you know, the nature as a nature can be the ocean that can be the tree in the trees. I can be home and can even be animals that can be anything in that.

33:14 Is not me or another human being could be could be human beings cuz we they are animals or animals, you know, but just anything that's that's that's greater than myself. So that's kind of sad that guess some nature against around me and it's

33:35 I feel like that kind of neglect, you know.

33:38 Just nature in general. And so I feel like I could be something.

33:42 That kind of look into and just in general. So you feel like you kind of neglected without you. Kind of don't really like, you know, really looking to how

33:52 Amazing it is to be on in the earth and where I am, you know, I could be, you know an aunt I could have been a tree I could have been some starving African Child into Bob way. I could have been anything but I ended up being me Deerfield Johnson and you know

34:13 Morning l a sound which is you know, I can have to kind of embraced and also look just look at it a little bit and you know, and so that's why I guess God. That's why I believe my God or higher power bi, you know nature. So it makes a lot of sense so we should get out in nature a lot more because man, I feel like a lot of strength to being outside and I feel like that's something I wish I did more with you that I got growing up was a lot of the hiking and camping.

34:46 Yeah. Yeah, but it's right in here. It's not so far where we live to get outside and look around on a tree outside the circle jungle. So give any question question. Do you like 5 minutes left side? You have any questions for me? Yes.

35:03 Do you have a favorite memory either from traveling together childhood or anytime I was in or do you have any favorite memory?

35:18 Yeah, I think my favorite memory would be when we travel going to Dominican Republic and we were that organization. That was the name calling. Yeah, and we were in that Haiti refugee camp and we were we were we were with all the kids little kids and we are playing, you know soccer with them and their lot better than us, but you know, I was really fun and they all just kind of

35:45 World surrounding us and kind of

35:49 But that's us even though I kind of looked up to them in a sense that

35:54 They

35:56 That they're still they still are so positive even though they're going through so much and we I kind of just break down over the silliest things. So it kind of makes my everything about whenever I'm going. You know, I'm self-loathing aren't having in self-pity. I kind of think about stuff like that that I'm not in that situation so I should be grateful for where I am today. Yeah. I kind of put things in perspective, huh? Yeah, and so glad we got to do that together.

36:28 When we travel together, I always had moments of feeling either like this is so amazing or next time. I'm going to go traveling by myself and it was hard wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. We had really, you know, obviously we have different interests.

36:47 But that one guy Arnon who took us around Israel. He sure tried to like find where you were at and where I was at and managed to work with us both, huh?

36:59 Sorry, I questioned any is there anything that you want to tell me now that you're sitting across from me? That's me that you haven't been able to tell me or

37:11 I don't know. Is that too big of a question? Yeah, maybe make a little bit of everything pressing right now, okay.

37:21 What's your relationship like with your mother right now right now?

37:28 It's getting a lot better than it. Where was he for there have been some.

37:33 Moments where it's really, you know rough between us and we know we're just both of us are very passive aggressive and kind of just, you know, a little bit rude to each other and especially me and

37:47 That is due to you know, why Islam is due to you know, my in addiction and just you know, if relapse is and you know, just the daily struggle meme have to go to be go through and so I blew that plays a big part, but for the most part our relation is getting a lot better with working a program. I'm working program in a and she's working a program for an Al-Anon. And so I think that our relationship is getting a lot better. We we've always had a fun relationship where we we never would just flip for a long time would just be you know, mad at each other pretty forgiving what kind of we would laugh everything off and kind of but we'd still have a lot of those times where we be rough, but it wouldn't last long so but we always had a very we had we both have really

38:41 Interesting sense of humor and

38:44 I can take if I got to take you know that it's just been I've been living my mom, you know for 17 years just be on one besides the fact that you know furlough furlough while I was living with them her partner and my steps to read Plymouth Pros Beyond mom. And so it's it's kind of very we're very close.

39:13 Yet there's we're kind of in mashed kind of when something happens to me. She kind of feels every kind of takes it a lot more than you know, maybe she should Menchie's to in malmaison has been doing you know the best she know everything she can you know, if the past 17 years with what she's got so lifelike relationship has been, you know, very interesting and you know, I think it's been great A lot of times has been a lot of Great Moments. So yeah, definitely think that we're doing a lot better. So yeah like the

39:54 And off with saying that, you know, it was really am grateful that I'm here today with your mom, and I'm still alive and that you're still alive and that we can do stuff like this. So, thank you and I love you.

40:09 Well, I really really thank you for coming here with me and I just I love you beyond words, and I'm so glad you're here with me and I still say nobody has ever created so much passion, like love and laughter and other emotions to as you you know, I feel like in some ways you're like my soulmate and that's probably why we we do have our challenges, but

40:41 I love you so much.