Claudia Reder and Miriam Reder

00:05 My name is Miriam Asia Rider. I am 26 years old today is November 22nd 2013 and I'm currently in Thousand Oaks California. And today I'm speaking with my mother.

00:22 My name is Claudia March Ritter and I am 61 years old. It's November 22nd 2013. And where in Thousand Oaks California and I am Miriam's mother speaking. So I'm the mother speaking to the daughter.

00:39 So marry we wanted to come today because when you were about 8 years old, I got very sick with vertigo and I had several diagnosis that year. It was neuritis labyrinthitis, maybe a migraine maybe a virus entered my system but it really has affected me and you all the way through till now with your 26. So I want to know with what you remember about the night. It happened the night pretty clearly for the most part. I remember you would said earlier that night like your how you felt something fell asleep early off. Remember you saying not be thought. I was just a headache or cold. I don't know if you remember that. Maybe that's not true. But I

01:23 That's what I remember from that and you put me in a bad and then later that night. I got up for my room and I went to the bathroom and you were lying on the floor in the hallway. And you said that you were fine and you were doing you are something amazing. And I said, okay mom's doing yoga. I went back to that and then I woke up a little bit later because I heard a noise in the hallway and that I remember seeing paramedics putting you on about her oxygen thing and you being my mother said no, I'm fine sweetie go back to bed. And that's part of become a family joke with us. Now when you say, oh I'm fine and go to bed when you're not fine. And I remember going into your bedroom and dad was there and he told me to dress when you go to the hospital and I remember being in the hospital for a long time and seen you in the bad. We weren't really moving very much. He looks really pale. I remember that. I remember that dad. Let me have like chips or Doritos or something like it early in the morning. I remember that I had to go to school the next day still and I was really

02:23 And that's what I remember about it. Yeah, we were there till probably 4 a.m. In the emergency room or 5 and they said when we got in the car that vertigo would make the car.

02:35 Ride make me even feel worse. So I just remember that being really exhausted from it all but I I also remember though that they took me right away in the emergency room because they decide vertigo is one of the worst feelings in the world and they took me right away and I didn't have to wait in that really surprised me. Feel like for you the first time you had it that first time was the worst. I really thought maybe I'm having a heart attack and I might die and if I am I'm what 42 3 years old and this is it and what does that mean about my life? So while I was waiting for the paramedics, that's really all I thought about was this might be it but everything's spinning or let ya that the room was going around and every time I moved it got worse and then I just got really sick and felt applications.

03:25 And very disoriented

03:28 So I remember you always said that first year now that you left it in the account I've lived in and I know but it really did change how we lived and I don't know what you remember about the years.

03:48 You know, it's funny. I don't remember so much about the first two years because I remember you being in bed a lot and I remember your handwriting a lot of things. I remember you not do teaching me or dad teach me how to write the checks out really young cuz sorting stuff for you is really hard and you being a teacher or Professor you had all these papers. I would have to sort them into different envelopes and dad was away traveling a lot. If I remember I thought time he was going to Connecticut through Monday through Thursday, and we come home Friday to Sunday. So he wasn't around and so you were so I remember I couldn't figure out this was before email and Banking online. I couldn't figure out how to get the check in the right envelope and it became like a children's game of where is it? And it was frightening and very exhausting and I hadn't realized that time no one told me that enter your stuff could really affect cognition, but it can

04:48 Because you cannot drive know at that point. I really couldn't remember that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember those years. I remember the feeling of exhaustion and I remember how hard it was to try to find a path back to health doctors didn't know much then or they said it was in your head or they didn't believe you crazy. Yeah, and I would go to a grocery store and I would feel like all the cans falling on my head and I'd have to leave so I start gagging around you and I thought I was having a nervous breakdown cuz it was so strange. But I remember story you told me when you decide. There was like a park bench and you remember looking at it and thinking it had jumped up in the air was tilting and you thought you were going to remember

05:48 Yeah, and then urologist at that could be something different that. Yeah. I thought I was having a nervous breakdown and the only time I felt I was on the path to Healing was I was in an academic library in the basement trying to find anything about what was going on dizziness vertigo. I had heard that word and I found Lucy guard Facebook and my symptoms were in there and I thought oh thank God. I'm not having a nervous breakdown. I have an illness. So I remember xeroxing those pages and taking them to doctor after doctor till somebody really believed that this was a disease nothing psychological about it. But depression really comes with it. I've got really depressed cuz you were my daughter and I love taking you places and I I couldn't take you we couldn't go on vacations anymore long car rides planes anywhere where was crowded or running around the park running around the park when you I know you had a roller blading one of those roller blading party.

06:48 You were supposed to go to and I looked inside and there were these colored lights going like a disco and I knew I could not go in and so I felt there was a lot of stuff I wanted to do as a mom that I couldn't do anymore and it and that was really hard cuz I know you want to do things with your family. Yeah, that's tearing that ended overnight light changed for us. That's true. I would say that you are able to do a lot more now than you used to like. You couldn't work those first years and I remember my daughter travel a lot and he became the sole Runner which is really hard and your family cuz we don't have a lot to begin with it was hard. I mean it yes you go through all your medical stuff and I could only shop at the remember the Little Village Market up the road a little super super expensive, but it was the only place I could navigate cuz it was small and so our food bill went up and

07:47 I would have loved medical bills as I tried to search for help and I ended up with a therapist and a holistic chiropractor and a neurologist after some time looking and when urologist from John Hopkins said, well the thing is it's like breaking your leg over and over it's going to get weak and not here. So we said I had to figure out for my nervous system what it was. Yeah, and I guess I just never really healed totally is the problem so we know like even when we go to a mall now you have his favorite phrase.

08:27 I'm going it looks like you're going into a war zone sometimes not with you is vertigo because you couldn't you can't turn your head like this. You have to give it a straight you can turn from side to side. So if you knocked into someone you weren't really aware of it cuz you didn't see if I mean, I remember it's a no, sorry and or or if you drop something, you can't bend down to pick it up because the move the Motion makes you so nauseous. So I'll univ up here probably really rude to people if something dropped off a shelf. I just walked away. I couldn't do anything and it was embarrassing for you. I'm sure yeah, but now I'm not that kind of second nature plus. I'm not around as much anymore college and everything, but you worry a lot your mother and I felt really badly because I didn't know that was too big of worried.

09:27 You didn't really have to I mean somehow life is going on. I don't know. But yeah, I think

09:36 Yeah, I did become a babe. I became really hyper I'm Vigilant drying up. I think it was it like once I was lying on the floor doing yoga. This is like 5 years later. And you said Mom what's wrong? I said nothing. Why and you said this is what you look like when I found you that night when you got vertigo, so I realize that you were.

10:00 Overly Vigilant as you said, and also you had you had to do more in the house and stuff packs the cleaning the cleaning I couldn't do it couldn't drive you places if you wanted to go.

10:13 Do that that took an enormous responsibility put it on you. I still feel badly about it cuz it was some I didn't want you to have to take care of me and I didn't want you to grow up thinking you'd have to cry. Sometimes I still think of you as being independent and everything. I don't think I have to take care of you so to speak and I think I took on that role more then.

10:36 I think I took on that role since I needed to probably get became so commonplace and part of it like something I'm ashamed about like a middle school for the grocery store. And you started acting weird. You would act a little bit manic. Sometimes I like your laugh. We get very high pitched and shrill and Loud people would look. Yeah and I had an attack that was not a symptom for some anxiety or if that or you're just so over stimulated with everything that you were whole body was just kind of shutting down. I'm not sure but I remembered feeling like embarrassed about that and so I would always try and Steve off the attack Apostle which I could never do obviously, but I felt like I think God help us to that we could sort of sense when was coming before it actually came or before you even noticed it kind of like those true. Love you bag of Henderson, but those dogs that are with kids with seizures or so.

11:36 And they sent it before I can happen. I feel like. And I could do that. That's true. He would say. Oh you face looks pinched. You're getting an attack take something and realize it was actually said that he would stand in line and I would just talk as much as possible to like trying to distract you for coming down from up. What's going on. Well, yeah, I guess I would just point out anything to try and distract like oh look at the cover on that magazine or something like that.

12:12 But yet we've remained really close. I know you're the only child and you never like that but I feel we have been able to be very close that the most because you did right about that time for your college essay. So at least you got anything shout out about it. I feel I remember one thing you said when I was in physical therapy for balance and you wandered in your like 9 years old and you wandered in cuz I didn't have childcare that day and you looked around us and what are you doing in this grown-up playground and it was really strange because I had been a creative dance teacher for children and I had thrown parachutes and foam balls and all this stuff. And now I had to do it I couldn't do it and it just made me feel like what were all those kids who didn't enjoy themselves. Maybe they weren't shy maybe they had vestibular problems and they didn't know or no one told me so I guess I really changed.

13:12 Yeah, that is hard with vertigo. I feel or vestibular problems that it's not something that super visible at also.

13:22 You know, I think like you outside a long time ago that you feel like you lost friends over it because you couldn't reciprocate with a child care or the driving and people just sit in a dinner party and you just ruined I could entertain you like to have not fancy, but would you like to have friends for dinner? And now we don't do much at all. We don't and I can't go out the way I used to and I always remember I used to be a New Yorker in that City doing stuff all the time. And now yes movement. I love going to the crowds and now that all life is changed.

14:02 It did change the way I teach remember I told you about that. I I really now I know like you just said everybody has an inner story and they may look quote normal, but you never know what's going on inside and I think I learned that because when you have vertigo, no one sees while you're acting weird, it's not a visible disability and I really changed instead of teaching creative writing. It was really about helping people just tell their own stories because all the hidden stories needed to come out and that was my big learning I think cuz I couldn't teach at all anymore. And so I had to change what I was doing in the world.

14:48 Do the doctors ever find out why it happened that one night. They all I did get many diagnoses and they finally think it was migraine vestibular migraine, which means I don't get any headaches. I just get a tax over to go. Yeah, but they don't really know because they never because I still have symptoms that never went away never healed and I have a great neurologist who believes any weird symptoms. You tell him he'll just listen to you and he knows it. You're not faking it and he said actually I guess for you the world is just too loud. The volume is too loud and I feel like I have a persistent low migraine all the time with the lights in the sounds and motion and crowds to him. So yeah when I'm out for about an hour, that's it, right so around the holidays it's hard cuz people want to go out to parties and indications and vacations and I'm going I think I'll go home now so you can you learn to appreciate the

15:48 Almont, what did you learn the big with the Riff Off from living with a mom with change so I learned really young. Things can change really instantly. I don't know and I internalized that really young even if I don't even though I don't know if I could voice until like recently and I got was a mean I figured.

16:12 I did not something. I definitely learned. I learned that.

16:19 It is on silent health insurance is really important that you have to be an advocate for yourself and like to not take one doctor's orders.

16:29 And that's really important to me and you learn that at a really young age.

16:35 Larry Bird's biggest tell her that there can be but when it happened we didn't know I mean, I didn't know if I'd ever be able to work again. That's one thing also. I should say that change. I was you know, I had finished my dissertation it was going to be published perhaps and for my PhD and then suddenly it was like who cares if I can teach maybe I'll just write what I want and I went back to writing poems. And then now that I can work again. It's like, oh I am working but that was before it happened, but it changed what I would do with it. Yeah. Yeah a lot.

17:14 And yet I'm I'm just love going outside and I know it sounds trite but you know, I'm here to see a beautiful tree turn red that day and I'm just so grateful for it it just grateful to see you grow up so beautifully.

17:31 And dumb some people. I think the forties are really hard to navigate for some people like me. I like you lost your 40. That's right. I did I say I I feel like I lost my forties but my body doesn't feel that way. I'm sure but I would I would like my 40s back another decade. I feel the world owes me, but it doesn't, you know, just keep going the way you can.

18:03 What do you say? Who do you think your biggest the part was in the beginning when you first got it?

18:11 That's hard to say because you are always there. But you were young. You weren't supposed to be my support. I feel lucky that Danny was around my husband your father. He really wasn't around. He was very busy working and I just I just felt really alone. Actually, I think I was fortunate enough nose days. I had one internist at we weren't living California. Then she said I will be the captain of your ship and that to me was amazing and I don't think I'm going to find that anymore. But there's one Doctor Who will gather all the information and try to make sense of it. That was amazing and I wish I could remember her name and Philadelphia because that meant so much to me maybe that somebody cared cuz it was a very isolating.

18:56 Ways it is isolating and there was no internet to it was had just begun so you couldn't look up now. There's a lot of information you can Google then that didn't happen. So I really had to figure out my own path which many people do anyway.

19:12 How would you describe vertigo?

19:17 For people who have it. Well, the world isn't spinning now. I'm medications and I do Pilates and

19:25 Stretch it, you know I care of myself. Yes. I try to take care of myself stress doesn't help. What was your question. What do you want? What is it. How would you describe her to go? Like, what is it? If someone didn't know how would you describe it? Well vertigo itself is really either you're standing still and feel the world whirling around you the rooms or your were whirling around in the room is still mine was I'm still in the room was whirling around me but there were other symptoms that came in so I can't say I'm willing but I still have that sensitivity to light motion too much visual stimuli annoys, and I think Dad had to do with

20:15 My nervous system got weekend. I don't know but it didn't heal right? So that's what I still have.

20:21 Have to be careful with my energy. I don't know if you remember when we first moved to Ojai, California. If I drove to La the next day I'd be in bed for a whole day until sometimes it still happens not as often and then it was very depressing to.

20:38 For you to come home at 3 and I go I should get out of the lights off. Yes, and your mother would be in bed. And that's not good for a kid. I are fire you for me and Dad and it was hard for him and to understand even in you what?

20:55 But you didn't want to have to talk to someone at dinner because it might set off an attack. So it's isolating and it's disturbing.

21:05 And I just wanted to make sure you and I had a chance to say that I you know, I really love you and

21:12 That we have an open relationship and can talk and joke about it. And I think that helps getting through it like with the healing process of it all cuz I think it's

21:25 Is Ashley with illness in General on the family and whatever form or shape? I think it's really easy to get mad at the person who has it and you to learn to distinguish between the disease being mad at the illness and not at the person and but sometimes it was hard. So she's going to act like I remember one time I see one of my friends at the mall in middle school. I don't have to do remember that I probably I did it's always stuck with me from then we were at the mall and I remember you said we need to go in your voice meaning that you're going to attack if we can't leave and I all I want to do is stay there was so hungover 13 is still so I said okay is 10 more minutes and I know and then we took us forever to leave and we dropped her off at home and then you're not a yeller usually but you did yell at me at that one point which I understand why because it was too much and then I felt so guilty and it's just one of those

22:22 Yeah, I don't want you to feel guilty you were in middle school. You're supposed to do stuff like that. And I'm I'm sorry. It was such a hard time.

22:31 Because other moms, okay, you be late that's one issue but not because of mom is falling apart physically cuz I remember sleeping on the floor in the security guard came over in the mall and said I wasn't allowed to go benches or anything and I was sort of just saying. I've got to do Maddow here. I think over that you don't need to but it is hard I get mad over to go to you know, I have my limitations and that's it.

23:03 I used to love classical music and once I got vertigo I couldn't even listen to it anymore. It was much too too. Noisy too confusing.

23:13 But dumb

23:16 There's a lot of quiet. I need a lot of quiet and you're young and you want you no noisy stuff.

23:27 Oh.

23:28 Well, I was really lucky.

23:32 I was really lucky because God knew if I had a child she'd have to help me be a mother and you were really easy as a baby and you really were lovely and nothing you were never difficult. I mean all kids go through stuff that you were never too difficult and you always knew when things would happen for you like the day you wanted to go without diapers. You just said, okay, today's the day that's it. And it was you were and that was this and then you kept sleeping with a big light on and I said, well how old will you be when we turn it off? It's at 5 and at 5. You said turn off the light. So I thought you have a really good sense of your needs and how to help yourself grow and develop and you could prepare yourself and make yourself ready for things. So

24:17 That was really yeah. Yeah, and that's why cuz you're such a lovely person and so generous. I didn't want you to give your life to your mother. If she I feel like you care a lot of guilt Pratt to that you feel I got to take care of you and most of the time like I like hanging out with you. I feel lucky in that sense that we enjoy each other's company. And I remember those something was really useful when you said that you weren't going to clean the house anymore to take a stand at College. Maybe I came home from college break or some day. And I said that I'm not cleaning this time so I would do it.

25:00 Can I protect you from vertigo? And then I wouldn't have to do it and get mad because so much of the housework falls on him. But I just had to meaning of stuff going to do that. And I remember there is a year, I think where I said, I really didn't want to do your student your grading in the mailing of the figuring out stuff and then putting up at all. I remember I totally rebuild a little bit High School against that and actually that was healthy and I was teaching online. But in those days you had to mail all the envelopes back to the students. It wasn't so everything had to be put in each envelope and sealed and then taken to the post office and I couldn't even do that. It was too much for me. So it was very healthy when you actually said no. I've had enough and I really didn't.

25:55 Blame you at all for that.

25:59 I actually ended up changing jobs. I really didn't want Danny my husband to have to put in the gray cheats for me. It just was not right it would seem to wrong use of his time in my time and

26:11 So I was fortunate when we moved out here. I did find a job. But the first job was someone called me and said do you know anyone who could help tell people stories these people in this Assisted Living are bored with Bingo and I just said I'll do it and I had never work with that age group. But the thing was we I know I was with him. I understood it when your life was taken part of it was taken and you were left for something. You didn't know what to do with any of the form a new identity. So I really love working with those people and somehow I got stronger and was able to teach again. It was fortunate that a job opened up the university. So yeah, and you've somehow up and I can label is regular pretty normal and then sends you can go to work. But I know that when you come home, you are just exhausted just there's nothing really laugh.

27:11 Yeah, and I don't go to grocery stores during the week and or cook I'll do that in the Summers when I'm off but not yeah, I have to manage my energy I guess. Yeah.

27:25 Happiest memory from childhood and growing up my happiest memory. Think about that for a moment.

27:37 But how does it go to the happiest day then we got you otrcat. I've been begging for a pet forever and we went from fish to the hamster was if even though you ended up taking care of him and I think Dad bond with him the most out of all and then this is out of his old so allergic to dogs. I we got you OD who was mostly hairless cat heart heart and I remember when we went to go visit him at the Breeders place. He bit me, but I really wanted him so I didn't hear nothing problem the first few years, but I definitely want to send other happy memories Thanksgiving always do one of my favorite holidays is Our Family secret holiday and my mother love to cook and I

28:37 Middle School on we had everyone over for Thanksgiving sleep in one of our times are free all like your side and dad's side of the family is all coming together besides at weddings. So I love that so that's probably my favorite phrase to yeah mine too was really lovely how that I mostly just lovely to have you and Dad around cuz you're both still here and try and get her to come by meaning you love to come home. I feel honored 26, you'll come home. I don't want to

29:12 Is there anything?

29:14 So, is there anything you want?

29:16 To say that you have haven't been said cuz we we written about vertigo together cuz you write and I write and you did use it for a college essay, but I feel like there's always

29:32 I think.

29:35 You're very strong and you are very independent. And I think that probably made it even more difficult for you to get vertigo. And the sense that is supposed to be his first two years and you couldn't drive you couldn't really even walk. Remember you said you would have learned that you would have put one foot in front of the other which sounds terrifying to me and that you couldn't write and writing your whole being and you couldn't do that. And you did lose some I should I feel you fought really hard to gain it back and I forgot the first two years. I couldn't read a reading with my thing. Yeah. Yeah. That was really do you still feel like you got depressed from vertigo sometimes because there were days when I know when I have to not read when it I can't it's just it's not something you decide you just realized it is not taking anything and I need a day off and the older I am the less. I want to take a date.

30:35 Disorders things I like to do in right about the right columns now about things and I really want to right now with what I have left of my life. Whatever it is, I think is also so important for people know about vertigo is that it's not a terminal LAX, especially if it's not a terminal illness but messes with your everyday life and I think it's really easy to take for granted everything you can do or that I can do so easily like drive when I want her work when I want to have to worry about an illness getting in the way and not have to worry about feeling sick if I'm around other people and not having to worry about feeling judged for having a disability. That isn't understood very well and I think

31:20 You know and interesting is important to realize how much it does affect mean you do things like was so easy for me like putting dishes away and completely ruin your whole day and it sounds so trivial on the way, but it's absolutely not. Well most of life is Trivial learn, you know, just getting dressed undressed putting things in the laundromat and Hannah time to learn how to do you to learn basically how to take care of do things again? Yes Physical Therapy really did help but it doesn't solve I once I tried to get back into Physical Therapy cuz I had a really bad relay since you said that I've nothing left it to chew and I was really upset if I wasn't doing well, but you said you learned your strategies and that's that's it, but it is hard I guess because I don't know how other people perceive me when I'm walking and I don't turn my head a lot of my arms. Don't move don't swing it's not a natural thing. I have to keep working at it and things lose.

32:17 I sometimes wonder if I'll ever get it like I'll just wake up one day and I'll just have it.

32:24 It's not migraines might be genetic hereditary, but this isn't no.

32:33 Might nobody in our family ever had this isn't your mom at the end. Well, we never I never knew for years, but when she had her stroke, apparently we found out that when she was lying flat. She feel a little dizzy and she'd like to have her pillows under head. So I don't know if that happened, you know, if that's related but migraines our families have sorry, but we also a lot of good here. So I don't think it's my money right about now.

33:11 Now I wouldn't worry about that.

33:18 Do you feel like you have people who understand what you go through? I think you and Daddy do I think Dan's had a hard time when he tried to explain it to our relatives Uncle Jack and John and I mean Rick. And Jack, yeah or anybody because it's like any illness you really don't get it till you have it. It's just unbelievable happen. I mean to say that the color blue made me nauseous sounds weird, but that's what happened when your favorite color or remember when I sold our oriental carpet from my grandmother and my mother went berserk and I just couldn't look with the

34:10 The patterns I thought the patterns were moving around on the rug and I just didn't know how anyone in India who had all these patterns around if they had vertigo be the worst place to live. I know, you know, just remember when the gym that ride LA Fitness I went to ride was remodeled. And the first thing I felt like this cuz it was so Pat Ernie and I was just take a little more energy throughout the day saved by the evening your nerve assistant. My nervous system is just more tired and needs more time to

34:55 Recuperate that is there something you want the world to know about your vertigo.

35:01 Largest vertigo in general

35:03 That it really is a disease that people have to keep researching and I even email Lucy Yardley in England. She was the one earlier one that I found her book on dizziness and vertigo. And you know, I just said Thank you keep researching and she actually answered me and I just think it's wonderful that she knows this is a really terrible thing and they're really trying to figure out what's going on. I mean it was brief, but that she took her time to just answer one little persons question was really wonderful and that no one should give up hope and that they'll like you said you really have to create your own path to health cuz you don't know what your triggers are and everyone's triggers are different. So and I also think with all the environmental changes that and things in the air that we breathe and it may be there a lot of pollutants that cause things in certain people.

35:57 I didn't think we don't even know about so when doctor said to me, I do not think of it as a basket and my baskets just a little smaller than other people's and when it's full that's it and you anymore can't take anymore but someone else is basket could be much bigger and so will take some more time for it to fill up. Does that make sense? And my neurologist find someone who really believes your symptoms and doesn't laugh and say it can't be because you know your symptoms.

36:30 And I love my neurologist because he always believes me. You know that. Yeah, we'll see what we can do about that.

36:41 There is a poem that you can that you were in that, you know by heart you'd like to say or reader.

36:49 Are you mad you didn't bring the poem O I didn't bring a poem. I guess that no, I didn't think to bring a poem but I guess one thing in a poem is

37:04 I don't remember the poem but it's called pilgrims and it's about a time when I was trying to figure out what was really wrong with me and I actually ended up just talking to this woman who owns a jewelry store in Manayunk and apparently for a few years. She had had some illness and hadn't been able to work at all and we just shared our stories and I felt we're pilgrims on this journey that some people have to fall off the road for a few years and then come back and I know the last line was were pilgrims and if you listen you can hear us hum that we're all throughout the world and people aren't always listening for all that goes on when's life.

37:42 That's pretty you contributed to your health.

37:52 Well, I always wrote poetry and it was always my way but now instead of thinking about publishing. Of course, I want to I am bitching has to go out have I have published yet? I have two books out. It's true. But you know the ambition has to leave when something like this happens, but I really think it is my way to work through what's happened in to help me make sense of it. You dead you wrote an amazing amount of your Memoirs. What is yet, but was it mr. Vertigo? Mr. Is vertigo. Yes. I called him my pimp. Yeah, it's true. He could do whatever he wanted with me. And you know, there was nothing I could do and that's the way I felt about the fates of illnesses like called them just said they were there and if I wanted to

38:41 Get well, I really had to talk to him and I think through riding I try to do that and I've learned that.

38:51 There are nuances that came through my writing as I thought through them like there's one called pronouns where you really feel there's a she young she who still living in the world and loving and laughing and doing everything she wanted to do but that she is living her life and I'm living a parallel life.

39:10 Because I can't do everything that that she can do but I still see her and I remember once you saw that the video you were three years old in Miami on the beach and I was running with you or something other than one of the home video and Annie said that once he said why I don't remember you dancing and doing all of that, but I talked to Anson down so that that's there's a she living her life and maybe my poem show live to

39:46 That's the hardest part.

39:55 I'm glad you made me do this in special people telling your stories.

40:09 Cuz if you hide your story you hide yourself and

40:13 And your invisible to yourself?

40:17 Can you tell your story first for you? And then for people you love and then hopefully if it goes out in the world, maybe you can help someone else too.