Miriam Hilton and Ann Fisher

00:03 My name is Ann Hilton Fisher. I'm 66 years old today is July 16th, 2014. We're in Marquette Michigan and I'm here to interview my mother Miriam Elder Hilton.

00:16 I'm Miriam Elder Hilton. I'm 89 years old and it is July 16th 2014 in Marquette, Michigan and I man's mother.

00:28 All right.

00:31 You know, we talked a lot about what we're going to discuss and I said what I was really interested is your sort of

00:38 History as a missionary kid and how you lived out the Social Gospel in Marquette briefly. Let's record what your path was from? Kermanshah Iran to Marquette Michigan is born in kermanshah Iran. My parents were from New Jersey and Pennsylvania their Presbyterian foreign missionaries assigned to the criminal Shell station in 1920, and I was born there after a couple of miscarriages which I think is one reason. I've always felt so blessed and be loved because I was the first child A6 who was really brought up in come and she'll have it on in Tehran Iran from Tehran. I we spent a year and

01:24 Ridgewood New Jersey witches with church that supports my dad.

01:28 And had a very unusual for me for for public school experience and went back to Iran ran out of school for foreign children at that point ended up at a college for women came back and went to boarding school and Walnut Hill, New Jersey, which is Walnut Hill, Massachusetts, which is very close to Wellesley College where my mother's older sister by Agnes was of head of house and live from Walnut Hill. I went to Wellesley.

02:00 For four years and then my senior year had a friend who had had a fellowship at Iowa State and she didn't want to take it. So she asked me if I would like to go out and her Fellowship the professor and Iowa state was a little surprised to have these substitute, but she accepted it. She's going to be okay, but her feel it was consumer economics, which I sound very very very sad sound very useful in very interesting. It was a year after the was 1946. When I graduate I was at Iowa State and 47 46 and 47 and the class was full of g i p for the school on the GI bills. My classes were mostly Philip full of man, which I thought was wonderful because I'm good. Happy marriage was one of my big goals in life, but they all had wedding rings, but one of the students

02:49 I shared an office with a secretary and she the secretaries English Professor invited her to their house. And she said can I bring along this graduate student and he said sure and the graduate student. I was a graduate student and his roommate was Earl Hilton who became my husband so is very fortunate going to Iowa State when I did and it didn't matter that all the rest of them already had wedding rings at this party that has his Bachelor husband is best for roommate was giving for his students and I was just horning in on and they look it's the same as story that they said I said, I don't drink cuz of anything else and they said those sandwiches and I got there and there wasn't wearing any sandwiches made. So I went to the closet was really the kitchen was the kitchenette to make sandwiches and Earl came in and he gave me a kiss and he said I didn't seem to mind and so from then on we were set for Mary the next Jews.

03:51 How old were you when you came from Iran to the US which time I came fruit know when you've to boarding school out for boarding school? I was 14 and then how often did you see your parents after that not till I graduate from college. So you went from 14 until 82 or so 18 to 20. 20 people don't realize that that you know these missionary kids months. They left they were lucky to see their parents every seven years that I'm texting more traumatic was when I was in third grade. My folks have been mother been tutoring me and there were two other children in the compound who are my very best friends and they were going to go away to school and have it done because there was a professional teacher that the missionary parents and tired and have it done and they were both going and I was just frantic I was six years old at the time but here was my very best friend going off and to be nobody for me to play with and I yelled and screamed at me.

04:51 Folks until they let me go and I was late I couldn't live in the same house that they were living in and I couldn't live in the I had to live with an elderly couple doctor his wife who never had children of Their Own.

05:06 And when I first got I taken the car but it was a passenger in a car and was dropped off at the American Mission compound and I heard the kids calling ollie-ollie-oxen-free and I thought my goodness they don't even speak English and how long were you in hamadan away from your parents at age six a year and I couldn't see her at age 6 at 9 months rather. I couldn't go back at Christmas because my family had chickenpox. So I did go back in the spring go to six months there before I was when I did wasn't with my family at that you so I've always been pretty in the I guess starting at age 6 in what way do you think your life is been shaped by the fact that your parents were missionaries go completely because we were absolutely

05:55 Persuaded that we were particularly that we were loved and that God had admission for each of us and for my parents and Mission was to bring the gospel to the Muslims in Iran, which is not an easy task. But we were we were minority with all the things that should have made made us feel uncomfortable. We're okay because we were loved and we were doing the right thing. You know, I'm talkin about the term Social Gospel. Is that a term you use is that a term your parents used or yes mother and it will mother and dad were products of it because the Social Gospel message was it doesn't matter so much what you believe is what you do and they were this was they were going out to be missionaries to help people.

06:43 Live better lives because the gospel would change their / self-perception and they're feeling of self-worth and dignity and I think all my life I've had the feeling that it was very important to do the right thing and to share your love and to be good people to help people.

07:04 The Social Gospel with an emphasis in their early twenties but said it doesn't matter what you believe. It doesn't matter whether you say I've been saved or someone has saved you what matters is how you live and if you live in loving life is service, you're a Christian no matter whether you actually stood up and said you were Christian and that was the course heresy too many people including many of my friends at Wellesley because they said the Social Gospel is heretical. It doesn't say that you have to believe in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior just as you have to live a good life and that's not true. But I think it is and the social worker and sort of what you see is the biblical basis for the Social Gospel or when did I see you hungry and fed you and I see you naked in Clovis you when did I see you stick in prison and visited you and these these are the people than the last judgment.

08:00 Did I supposed to be put on the route to heaven?

08:05 And the Social Gospel actually was basis for many of the people very involved in things like the Civil Rights Movement Rino. Absolutely. So it was really very much a voice for reform and Progressive thought in child labor laws and sort of pro-union things and Healthcare System to that was when you first came to Marquette, what were your impressions? What year was it? 1950? All right, and we've had my husband had a job at eastern central Mission Central Washington college education in Ellensburg, Washington right now, and he was finishing up his PhD at the University of Minnesota.

08:50 And working very hard that year and we're very disappointed to find his contract was not renewed in April. They told us you have to go somewhere else and and was too and Susan was about to be born in June. It was not a good time to be with her without work. And so we gone back to Wyoming where are his parents had a spare house that they let us live in it didn't have any electricity but no running water, but they were very good to us. That summer was a difficult summer though in the end of the year or was making his living cutting logs for fifteen cents a lug if they made it about I think $5 a day if was a good day, but this call came from northern Michigan. He wasn't he was registered where the teachers placement Bureau and the call came saying we have a community concert and the fishing's good. Do you want to come t-shirt Northern and we wouldn't come if they hadn't had any music or any fishing because it was a job and it was a very difficult Journey here.

09:50 Car kept breaking down and and and kept reassuring us that the big truck will come and take us away. Nice man with tow truck tow truck that is up to so I love being in Marquette. I like we came in the fall and the Ellensburg there been a lot of gold in the fall, but we came here and then Maples are beginning to turn and it was lovely country. But we had a house we could rent that we couldn't go right into it. So we're in the motel for the two babies and when the his history Professor Tim and his wife came to visit us and he said later when I enrolled in one of those classes. I've never seen anyone start out and it worse than you did but we thought it was great. Water you been running water and electricity.

10:44 What were the first day activities you got involved with him Marquette by the church. Of course, I can remember what I'm driving up Front Street and seeing the Presbyterian church and saying oh how wonderful look at that beautiful. It is going to be my home. I didn't know how long but I thought it hoped it would be a while and we began going. I began going to church right away. And one of the nicest nicest things that happen Adidas women Ethel carry admit me one of the early Gatherings and talked about we talked about the church. She mentioned or ask me I guess and she said well, we would you would you and your daughter like a ride to church on Sunday mornings that I said, that would be wonderful. So four whole years. She drove me every Sunday morning to church and I put an in the nursery where she seemed to get along fine and enjoyed the church and began to get join the women's organizations.

11:38 Move right up into the hierarchy and don't you ever mention though that in some ways the town was sort of closed off that there was something of a town-gown to buy that there were clubs. You were supposed to make friends with and then get invited to what was tell Missy a little more about that.

11:59 Will there be there were number of

12:02 The two things were different there were number of clubs in town study groups. They were called that had the did invite faculty wives and you were expected really to join one of the fact that he was groups one of those clubs and then sacked my department chair said join whichever one invites you but unfortunately none of them invited but I did had made up my mind. Anyway that I would not try to do something like that anymore than I would learn to.

12:32 Play a good hand of bridge which is my what my department chair is who I thought was really most important because so much of your social activity centered around bridge, but I knew I had two children already and I wanted to finish my Master's I never did finish the one I went to to Minnesota to work on and soda made a decision early on not to go into anything except a UW American Association of University women. I've been a member of that in Washington when the year we were there and that have been a difficult time because the numbers there were very conservative with their members of the John Birch Society what you may remember and I had so I had to kind of academics intellectual struggle there and I talked to some of the members and they said, oh it's not going to be like that wherever else you go. So I never was but we never had any political problems that I was aware of it and UW and I did enjoy my 50 some years there.

13:27 You talked about never wanting to be a member of a club that had a restricted membership right? Tell me how you told me that that was shaped by your mother's experience. Why don't you tell us that very the mother went to Wellesley College and she was she went there because she wanted to be a missionary in India because they didn't have needed women doctors just to serve women and she joined Agora which is it the political science science Society really government and years later was on that was the start of a sorority and years later. She told me she all the time. I was too I think I think I was going to go to Wellesley. There was any question but she did say at one point that she was really sorry. She joined it because it was a sort of snobbish thing.

14:18 I don't really think it was that bad but she did and so when I went to LC I didn't pledge her look to join any of the societies and later had lots of arguments. Well some about why would choose not to join something that I had to be invited to go to something. I could anyone could join before we leave Wells way cuz I think it's irrelevant. What's the Wellesley model non ministrari SED ministrare not to be ministered unto but to minister the video of the popular translation is not to be ministers with Minister's Wife. The service idea was absolutely invented all the way through college. Did your privilege privilege women and you are obliged and it's your responsibility to spread the this privilege spell doo-doo. What good you can

15:18 My computer course at that point most of you got married and did it and volunteer work. But of course nowadays everybody is working until it's a different is a different aspect was still a high proportion of it, but she was going to nonprofits their careers are nonprofits are in science summer summer course a really successful business people, but by and large you look over the class notes of the things they're proud of is the boys they serve out of there till today sauce calories charcoal societies that they help promote discussion now in

15:55 I don't know what sort of progressive circles about privilege and check your privilege and be aware of your privilege and it's interesting that Wellesley, obviously not just 60 years ago or seventy years ago, I guess is when you were at Wellesley, but presumably a hundred years ago when Grandma was at Wellesley right was basically saying Check Your Privilege be aware of your privilege and right. It's right and you have a privilege brings obligations. Absolutely and I think it's true that none of your children I've ever joined anything where you had to be invited either.

16:33 I remember that sometimes actually let's talk about some some sort of General themes.

16:43 Let's just pick up on the one you been talkin about. Let's talk about women's issues. So you went to a woman's college and women's college. Would you believe that women were more than just Housewives right or even ministers wives you came here. You joined a UW American Association of University women, right? What was a UW doing in Marquette?

17:10 It was doing at that point. It was mostly doing educating ourselves about the community. We did a lot of of speakers from Social Work organizations and things like that looking for places. We could help it always we were doing money-raising for swimming scholarships for women. That was one of the main tenets all the time about some of those money racing events involved in my very favorite we had from the time we were kids and we always did a lot of good deal of it which is films which was wonderful. We've had great fun with it. But a UW put on some children's place for about 10 years. They cooperated with the superintendent of schools. Who is it really a dramatic Drama teacher at heart to put on these wonderful mood of fairy tales.

18:07 But it was hard to test them all when we were all women and Ruth some do some of those in a couple of young women who were pretty Charming Prince Charming's but not quite enough and it got to be difficult. And so the Episcopal Church women heads organized in their Guild a puppet marionette troupe. They have made built marry an estimate at a folding stage and they offered to sell the whole thing to you. So a 1960 we bought it and for the next

18:36 Forty years and UW put on a marionette show for the public schools in Marquette every year using the folding stage and the marionettes should have been originally given to soldiers in 1960 that we made lots of new marionettes and lots of new costumes and lots of news settings, but it was really great fun because but hard work because we had to carry this the stage and it was in big boxes and carried up and down and set it up on the stage and it took about six weeks every month every year to rehearse it and to put it on and to put it down again, but it was we just loved it and people will still say where you would have the Puppeteer or should I say? Oh, yes and you charge and that's how you raise money for scholarships $0.25 a person right? And if the kids could do it the school usually paid and it eventually the schools would just pay us and I don't know if they'd I think they always

19:36 Continue to charge the kids though. It was probably closer to 50 years.

19:41 Oh, absolutely. You were still doing it in the still doing it until till till till trouble years ago. There was a great fun and it was one of the one of those and we just loved it because the kids loved it and we loved it and we

19:57 We would take the puppets after we after we were through as we would take them out and show them in the kids would say how did they get so little and they seem like full-size people. How did you happen to be involved in trick-or-treat for Unicef?

20:15 That was from a UW because these some of the arw branches in other cities were doing it. And so I thought we should have it here and I got the boxes and told my kids they had to go around with boxes and get pennies for you two sentences instead of candy for themselves. And I don't think they were particularly delighted by brownie troops involved in Girl Scouts and Girl Scouts troop for many years. I just great idea that if I you were in the first grade and she was in third and I figured I better take the brownies in second grade. So I wouldn't be showing favoritism. Either one. That's why I ended up with all three troops and want to hear another first. One of the most happiest memories of the Browning of the Girl Scouts is when I had a troop in met Messiah Lutheran Church of Juniors and you would come walking down from the high school and be my assistant house keys.

21:14 Cook-Out Master remember I do remember doing that that was really a lot of friends who was in The Troop. So we had a whole family of Girl Scout for what for and I remember the John birchers weren't happy about trick-or-treat for Unicef either. So they weren't we had some controversy. There was some letters in the paper about this was a bad thing to do but in times and they got to be many of the churches did join him and we had I think it's still going some places and it's mostly know. The churches will do it one or two churches will do it until we will

21:48 It is reported with supporting the United Nations. So it was the same black helicopters fear of the United Nations and international law that you see among the tea party now.

22:00 So it was really this America first, right and you getting the sort of international Outlook from your parents house Shores. I seen remember a story where in their retirement home their retirement community, but you're supposed to fly the American flag and they flew the UN flag, you know, I tell that story about them often.

22:22 I think that was it right now. I think the an American flag out there to write but the other thing they did not Community many of them were former missionaries and they sue the flags of the countries where they been missionaries was interesting to I'm a little worried about time and I want to make sure we get some really important things talk a little about some of your efforts with church sort of your service in various Church offices and I want to hear about mads go ahead and well as I said did the Christian church have been ordained when women to the ministry both the ruling Elder which has a member of the session of the church the ruling Board of the church and the preaching Elder which is the teaching outer they call it which is the actual Minister the preacher and both have been recently.

23:22 Admitted with the denomination had recently admitted women to both of those positions and roughly. When was this, you know, you know, roughly when this was in there was a early forties that they own the early 40s. Yeah. So we've been on the books for quite a while but Marquette hadn't done it. But the first when I was here at 6 second year or two years after I was here they are they in the first women that woman Minister who was the wife of the registrar Northern and then they estimate they asked me two years later if I would like to be the second and I was just very proud and very pleased to be it and very worried about what I was going to wear to be work today. And what did you wear black hats and we were between Ministers of the time. So the chaplain of the Year based came out in ordained me was kind of but some of the I heard somebody say, I'm never going to take communion from a wolf

24:22 Women Elder and that particular person became a very active Elder herself in later years. So really so the attitudes changed internally in the whole session became at least half women of the deacons 4/2 women. We had a separate Board of Deaconess Deaconess has who did the the dishwashing for the teacher?

24:50 Adult and Elder. I really enjoyed feeling that I was part of the

24:54 Government of the church and I really enjoyed the people I worked with because they all seem to be committed and really interested in the welfare of the congregation the welfare of the community. We had a number of community organizations that met in the church. That was a boy scout troop in there had been one year. There was a Chinese

25:15 That was really back for the back in Chinese boys Sunday school class, but we had we received a request from a couple of sisters in California thing. Y'all the church could do what they wanted to and I was really glad to be able to stay there. Let's not save it and put it in the endowment. Let's spend it on something useful. So we chose three things. When was a director of Christian education. When was electricity reason the third was daycare for elderly women a good many of elderly people many of my friends have older women older parents and they needed things for them to do. So we organized what we called Marquette senior day care center got in the corporated as a non-profit wrote The Blood by laws and got her permission from the church to use a one of the Sunday School rooms for the program and it was from the very beginning designed to relieve the caregivers who had people frail elderly people that they couldn't leave alone and a

26:15 Is a frail elderly a chance to socialize among themselves?

26:19 Each other and we had always had really really good stuff. We were able to find for years. They we only paid staff we had was bookkeepers way cuz we had enough volunteers. Otherwise now it has grown considerably and it's still operating and is a non nonprofit with its own board of directors and everybody's paid but there still is no way anyone can we have no finantial? Well, let's put this way. There is a sliding scale, but if people can't afford to pay they come anyway that's been something that they've held held onto I was director for volunteer director for 20 years and then stayed on the board of directors for another 10 until someone ran across an article somewhere saying that people should not be on boards forever and it sure was six years was biggest her my friend Florence Berrington. I decided after 32 years. We had to retire someone mention I could run again, but I haven't considered it seriously. Well, this is something

27:19 For nonprofit to make that bridge from the founder to carrying on without the founders very important. There's a thing called founder syndrome where people just can't give up the organization and I think it's so much to your credit that you were able to transition that into an independent Community organization. When at the start you were the person writing the grants raising the money and wiping the bottoms after people went to the toilet. It was pretty all-encompassing and let's touch on sort of your personal experience being an elder caregiver.

27:55 Oh, I was privileged one. Always you were the privilege, not at all. You had my very very difficult paternal grandfather to care for for many many many years, but I think he helped the fact that he came to live with us from Wyoming and was very unhappy in this country that was full so full of trees. You couldn't see anything and I did all the wrong things because when he would fantasize about things I would keep telling him it was wrong and he didn't know he'll try to set him straight and this was

28:30 I discovered very shortly after being to take training to work with these two Elder the frail elderly particular people with Alzheimer's that's a that's the one thing you do not do you never argue and you listen and in that connection to the other thing that came particularly from church was I took training as a Stephens Minister, which is person who assists the pastor with his past real calling and we were we were sign people who were at long-term difficulties and could stay with them and visit them every week and talk to them and help them to their difficulties by listening not by telling and as if the motto is we care we don't cure and people cure themselves we could care for them. And that was a very very useful training and everyone. I knew who took the Stephen's Ministry course of the same thing. It made a big difference in their lives and I just discovered yesterday that and noticed it to that. She said that's right. I noticed the change from the sort of the the teacher who always has the answer.

29:31 You know, what is always happy to tell people what the best thing for them to do is to somebody was more likely to listen and help people find the answer for themselves, which is often of course more successful than sex and see if they touch for I know that my sister Sue would be sorry. If we didn't talk about the changes you mention the changes look Presbyterian Church when it came to ordaining women the Presbyterian Church was just in the news just in the last month because they finally approved the ordination of gays and lesbians and allowed ministers to preside it gay and lesbian marriages were those are allowed writing where the church chooses to do. It. Actually those all have to be they were done better locals family, but they have to be approved by a two-thirds of the local presbyteries before it hasn't really happened yet. It hasn't really had. All right, but a very current issue is on his way. It's been an issue for 20 years. I had what's yours?

30:30 Curry been in connection with that whole issue the gay rights issue from having a real.

30:40 Two things happen. I remember being very upset because my youngest son was in a play. Well, it was some music man and someone told me that the director the band director the play was homosexual and he came over to see the see my son and I didn't even want to meet him. I thought I don't know what to do with this person. How can I speak to him? And then shortly after that suit came out that she was gay. So she was listed as much as sisters who made the second daughter and I thought she's going to miss going to pass through this just a phase because that was pretty popular in the 70s.

31:20 And is the dead and I never was quite sure. I knew she went to California. She has the number of employment issues. She was there was one point I think she was fired and and everybody went marched in protest. Don't fire suit. That's correct. That's correct. Right and she and I was pretty distant pretty far away from our new is happening and I was really proud of her for sticking up for who she was but it wasn't until I actually went out and met her partner and met her friends. I realized that lesbian love and lesbian living lesbian living together. We're just as comforting as a supporting and loving as any other marriage or relationship and that she was going to be just as happy as the kids who've had been okay?

32:09 Anyway, and then since then we had the young man who lived with us for while he went to school and he came out as gay and he's been he came back here the community and suddenly I realized that the community was full of gay people that enjoy the known all my life and never has been a very very much to transfer information and I'm very much better all better for it. Did you advocate for lgbtq rights in the Presbyterian Church. Did you advocate for lesbian and gay rights in the church?

32:45 Yes, because there's a there's a move to impact that came a while back. I'm on the social education action committee. There was a committee running a stupid declare ourselves at Covenant Church, which we met that we welcome gay and lesbians in it and not only membership at ordination but hasn't happened yet locally.

33:11 Couple things we haven't mentioned that you're pretty well known for are both your foreign students borders in your weekly dinner parties. How did those happen out of a tie in with our theme see what would my kids before they all left? I had this big house with empty rooms and thought there be students who might need things. And in fact that one of the first students who came to us was a African-American from Texas who turned out to be a really really really good person. And in fact left town under he was under arrest for having stolen some things and I'm really surprised that we came back from year with my Broad and I went back into it thinking that we still were students who need it and there are still students who need it and we've had a perfectly wonderful experiences with him and it's been both of us. Nice to know these people from 30 different countries over the years who lives with us.

34:07 And we started to have the dinners because one of my best friend's husband died and she died and he came to dinner and over the time. We've just collected people who've enjoyed having dinner with us. And so now we have Monday night and Tuesday night. We have 12 guests for dinner every night. This is really nice to have some help with it.

34:31 And my favorite hymn is Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee I was going to say

34:39 To what extent are you the same person you were in 1950 and to what extent of you changed what's changed? And what's the same question is what say was I really love people of places love singing your love music as join my life now, and I'm so blessed and where she is I guess it's the way that I'm able to carry out some of those blessings are not as economically strangest we used to be and so we can do more of that sort of thing. But at heart I'm a Christian has been always was madly in love with my husband and children and just blessed beyond words.

35:15 Any message you want to leave for Marquette or for your family hopes for a turd for your children for your community for the world. Peace. Love and friendship. How about that is not bad and service. What's at Wellesley model again? I think the only topic we really didn't discuss much if you want to is church women United.

35:43 Always have because it's an outgrowth of being member of church. I really enjoyed being part of the church women United Group, which is the five different denomination to meet together three times a year to share information about other countries and things to do and how we can best serve the Lord together in the city in the city and that's been a wonderful thing to do to we've supported Harbor House is so supported many of the local organizations designed to spread the gospel in terms of good works.

36:18 And has your

36:22 You mentioned that it Wellesley sort of this tension between you know, are you save the sort of Evangelical born-again Christianity and the living the gospel Christianity, which is what you grew up with and what you practice have your views changed on other religions, not just other denominations or Catholic vs Protestant, but muslim-hindu. Oh, yes, I think so because you have felt the conviction that Christianity was the only way to heaven was when I grew up with and I certainly changed that a lot because I've met so many people from other religions who are living the Social Gospel, you know, one of the points is came up was when Betsy married somebody who came from my daughter married somebody who came from a Hindu family and you read this wonderful book by this. I believe Yale Divinity professor.

37:16 Who talked about what was it about rivers to remember the many rivers have different than the Vault. So by the same all the rivers flow into the same see the carry the love of each other love of God and love each other for everyone. So does this mean we're all going to get to go to heaven? Sure. All right. I've always taken great comfort in your view that it's not having for you unless the rest of us. Are there anything else you want to say Mom? This is your chance of doing this. I think it's an adventure and I'm looking forward to reading the archive. All right. Thank you.