Jonathan Isham and Jonathan Isham

00:04 My name is Jonathan Isom jr. I am 55 years old. Today's date is August 8th 2016 and we are in Burlington Vermont and I am the son of the person who I will be speaking to and I'm Jonathan. I should senior 87 years old. Today is August 8th 2016. We're in Burlington Vermont and I'm the papa the dad the father.

00:32 So Dad, I wanted to start and talk a little bit about how we grow true up. So we grew up at 110 turtleback Road in New Canaan and I have the best memories of that time and felt like it was an incredibly stable home. I think that was a gift that you and Mom gave us which was a home that was just full of love and joy, and I've always thought that might be a reaction to a different childhood that you and Mom had where wasn't quite the stability. Was that very deliberate from Mom and you do you think

01:07 I can't speak for your mother is obviously as well as I can for myself but yes, it was deliberate and I think probably also speaking for her to the extent that I know and that her childhood because her mother and father were divorced when she was fairly on any she was a teenager and I think that's an in an unstable Family Life certainly had an effect upon that as far as I'm concerned. It was a definitely because I grew up in a very strange circumstances unusual in that 1/12 divorces, too many people but my mother and father were divorced when I was about 4, so I never knew them living together.

01:54 And in retrospect. Well, I had a brother older two years older to the two of us but in retrospect because of a very muddled young youngster family.

02:13 My father and mother who had a very unfortunate divorce and it was a real fight the cat and dog fight, but when I became mature with Chris Webb in your twenties, I think when you begin to know and understand life and how you got where you are see that is certain element of maturity probably in the mid-twenties. I realize that this is long-winded answer to your question. Is that tub?

02:43 Event, where is my mother and father should never have had children because they did not want the responsibilities the disciplines that go with children at children as they owe statement to be seen and not heard my mother and her part was very nice and sweet lady, but we always had a nanny she never really wanted that surround and then my father was much more interested in the Verizon and fishing and whatever but he was

03:19 He was a very unusual person. He very magnetic and charming and could be at the same time very very difficult. So I think what your mother and I ain't coming back to your question about New Canaan and raising you there was a conscious or subconscious that we felt we never wanted this to have no children.

03:39 I think I think my two sisters Peggy and Patsy, we knew that subconsciously or consciously and I think that's something I'm so thankful for that. You you were you modeled the very opposite of what you grew up with and and that I think it's made all the difference for us to think that we were essentially in the same home for 17-18 years in all our childhood was the tremendous thing and I would also say listening to now and correct me if I'm wrong. But if if your parents weren't probably shouldn't have kids of your own words you all love kids, you know, you were so joyous around kids and you just work such a fun dad and for all three of us and you know, Mom was such a great mom. So you took the very opposite of the model you grew up with and that I think has been a gift for us. Did did your did your dad ever talk about his father?

04:39 No, and that's finishing. He never talked about his mother his father his grandmother's grandfather never right and I think that again I think his he had a troubled child and that he was he was an only child could always have some difference but I don't think he was close to his father's mother mother and daughter, but he never talked about you now just interject here so that if anyone is ever listening to this and you talk about this stupid lyrics the stability of marriage and going up my father had four wives

05:21 Hit my mother was his second and his first wife he married when she was only like 16 or 17 years old and he was young and handsome and that inherited some money and Sophie this and that marriage is the last long because I think he was very difficult to draw.

05:47 Remarried my mother and then head to my brother and myself then he married for a short time and English woman who I remember only vaguely and then his last wife was my last stepmother was very nice Southern lady who I didn't really know that well, but so you can start right out by saying will somebody who's had four wives going to have a problem somewhere and and and then I would also putting this in the perspective of our family life.

06:26 We my my mother had basically two homes because she married stepfather Percy.

06:38 One in Rhode Island and went to Florida but we would never we never felt that we were homes. We would go there for a short time. We spent most of our time with our father. But now there you see in when we were growing up. He lived in a hotel in New York and you travel a lot and we went to boarding school. I went to voice when I was eight. My brother was 10 and we are set of shipped out neither side. Mama or Papa really wanted us around. So what do we do with him and and that triggered all kinds of

07:15 Things that are important is rest of my life which we can talk about if you'd like. Well, I'll pick up on the word home. I think that's exactly what you created for us. And I think that's what you continue to do. So the home we move to in Newport with a home and by then we were all in college right after college, but it was a place we could always come home to and then your second home in Newport same thing. And then now living in Middlebury Vermont. That's a true home. As you were talking. I was thinking about when your your grandchildren come up my nieces nephews and we'll have 10 family members there and all sorts of the new generation, but that's exactly what it is a home. So I think to me that is among the many gifts. Do you created for our extended family and I think you're modeling it to for your grandchildren Libby and Ted and and and Julian Ali so I think that that is something I've just value.

08:15 So much I could just interject there because she see when you say home that triggers to my way of thinking the home is things like Christmas trees a vacation together playing in the backyard and with it home is sending your peer group your neighbor your boyfriend your girlfriend that our neighbors that you grew up with that you know, and no throughout life. They'll be your friends or maybe you're like the little guy next door, but that the environment of home is so many different things free sample Christmas trees. I don't remember ever seeing a Christmas tree growing up. My father never had one in the hotel room in New York. And I don't think we if we ever spent Christmas with my mother. I don't think they had a Christmas tree with the name of that wasn't you know?

09:15 Problem that I see you can't resolve until they become mature. Then we're free sample. We both went to school with music in background and soap with him. You would come confirm that you go to wear when we were boarding school and every day is chapel and then twice on Sunday and something so I don't remember and then we come home to you know for holidays for Christmas or Easter or whatever.

09:42 I don't remember my mother or father ever going to church now. It's so is there something that in the back of the young mind starting with what I meant doing? What am I going to church every day at school and weekends and Everybody's Talkin about the word of God and have a great this is me and my mother father never do go to church.

10:02 You know, that's you don't really start to have a perspective on that until you're old enough to and mature enough to start thinking back when I'm starting to ask the question of the home. As you said it has only telling us his food and if we think back on our most recent summer Gathering it was food and and you have for most your life as we have known you Peggy and Bethany and I you've loved to cook. How did you come into cooking? And how did that become something that I think really release? No pun intended your creative juices. You've loved cooking and talk to talk to a lot of cooking to me. I don't use cookbooks and I use my nose smell inside looking out loud that to me is Artistic out the food does turns out badly you throw it away. It's like a bad penny.

11:02 I'm not going to do that again. So so to me, that's where I use whatever artistic Flair I have is in cooking now when started was and forcible. My mother never cooked at all. She always had some of the cook cook. She didn't know how to boil an egg and my stepfather. He never cooked in the kitchen. I mean he know so that side of it is a blank my father.

11:35 Did like to cook he and he was even being International in minded and I remember distinctly starting to cook when we rented a house when summer in Maine I must have been about what it was in the second world war and I was it may be 12 or something and we didn't have a cook and so I just started cooking for my brother and for my father the three of us and I just started a cooking I've learned from him about how to make good clam chowder, you know how to chop the clams and what do you do? And do you have New England clam chowder or not? So it's and he was good at that. So I learned from him because he enjoys cooking to although we didn't do a lot of it, but he enjoyed it. So I started there and then I just sort of stayed with it as much as well as a bachelor. You don't do much cooking run.

12:35 Prison, I was just like to contribute to it because so interesting ly he he passed on to you something that it's inherent to a home even though he didn't really understand the concept and yeah, and of course his interest in cooking with silly exotic mean when he went to the restaurant here and we did a lot of restaurant eating and then you would also always order something that I didn't know what he thought about every Sea World Ohio. I think he would get the head waiter over and see what's good to mix it with that skate Wings in Black butter with papers. So then you would learn and then you know, he was that way.

13:35 Brian a lot of talk about it gif so that I think you're putting your finger on another aspect of our family over many generations that we all value which is performing for lack of a better word. And your father was a wreck on tour you are extraordinary right contour. And then if you look at the Next Generation among you or your grandchildren, there's folks who love musical theater and singing and and Mom is the same way, right? She always has loved it. So what role do you think performing has played for for all of us and in terms of figuring out the Human Condition by being up on stage or singing telling stories not so good?

14:25 Butt and a raconteur necessarily know somebody loves to talk but it's so I went I went to boarding school age 8 to put on Gilbert and Sullivan The Pirates of Penzance and patience Melissa, and I was always the lead singer of I'm is the soprano. I was fantastic and Susan running around and singing to the to the the policeman or whatever and so I got interested in the theaters at a young age and then as time went on I stuck with the theater at school and I was always the lead in the play whatever I played Shylock and I played Scrooge in the Christmas Carol and so in the summer and then when I'm at the college that was the lead in The Freshman play. Well naturally that it came easy to me. It didn't bother me to get up for the people and talk and play egg play somebody else.

15:25 To some extent that trigger for that was my father because he love to tell the story line and some of them over full of baloney Malarkey the humerus and he was always and he was not embellishing and he could do different accents French and Russian and Jewish and German and so forth. So when you grow up with hearing those to do the same thing, right if that's that's passing not yet, but probably some of it is nature and some of it's one of the reasons we do storycorps is that

16:16 We're asked you know, what would people think about if they heard this a hundred years from now, so you have so many good stories and stories you tell at weddings or really any good. I think we have to preserve at least one of your favorite stories. Which one would you like to share now with this audience? That'll be listening. And what would it be 2116 and I'd have to reflect on that because some stories take a little telling

16:47 One of my most favorite which I haven't told in years was the one that my father told which was about the french-canadian story the three most stubborn man in the world who made it in a bar, but it takes 10 minutes to tell it each person tells why they are the most stubborn man in the world and it involves family in a shooting in the woods and some of the songs that would be one. I love to tell him then summer Little off-color Summer Choir performing. That's the one with the shirt sleeve coming out. How about the cat on the roof? That's a classic classic that are 10 minutes signal.

17:47 I'm going back to youth because it's important. So if you you say what strengths and weaknesses are they unfortunately, I never felt that I could talk to either my father and my mother.

18:07 To really have a discussion with him if I wasn't doing well in school and believe me I wasn't because I was went to school. I was totally muddle-headed in it and the teachers were very good. But there was no one to either a serious talk or Powers just said

18:29 The essence of life should be able to have a sixth sense of closeness to be able to talk to people and to be able to understand a two-way street start one-way streets into a street. So there was always something on that meant that I grew up with my lips sealed about myself. I never really talked to people because it was nobody to encourage me to do it and Hugh are you being a professor and then it ended in a very good teacher know that one of the things that gets a student to tell you about his or her problems is because they trust you.

19:12 And I know that you're not going to go and tell somebody else with you. Hopefully also trust your judgment and that comes around to as I've talked to you about in the past of the word wisdom. And there's no course you can take in wisdom. You can't take wisdom one or one wisdom is a combination of so many things and obviously they'd be the environment you grow up in is a great part of it the friends that you can make and not your own physical or mental pluses or minuses.

19:49 Bling bring it to a point where you met wizard.

19:54 The great people that have great people I nude college in school who are very smart.

20:01 Didn't necessarily end up doing well in life. They were smart, but they weren't wise.

20:08 Now where did I learn that? I didn't learn that from any teacher.

20:13 And I didn't have my mother and my father I learned it as I was thinking back in my life. And particularly. I think when I decided to cut the ribbon and that was the first when I went down to the oil fields and became a roughneck in the drilling oil and gas wells in Louisiana and working with the Cajun sandwich because of health and I wanted to rebuild my body and I was working seven days a week and the first rig I was on I was three and a half of four months never had a day off.

20:49 Now that is totally opposite to my upbringing which was pretty damn, you know, easygoing that was cutting the cord and then back to college and then the war the Korean War started and that was another cord that I decided to cut. I want to get into that I want to do what I can it wasn't so much that I wanted to help save my country. I knew in my own little way I wouldn't do that but I felt it and I wanted to get away from this whole growing-up thing mother father people. So and that going into the Air Force and then it helps to special investigations is who who those were two very very important indistinct cutting of ribbon to Breaking the cord.

21:46 Make a note.

21:51 Let my mother I've jumped it could have cared less my father would have.

22:02 Been interested, but it was sort of well, that's okay fine. We took you know, there was not they're not very decided. This was something I wanted to do. I think the first one is going into that well feels I had become sick of college in the I needed to be rehabbed and I didn't really know what to do. And then I was helped by an uncle who is in the oil business is in come on over if you want to get your health back. I'll stick you on an oil well and you

22:34 Straight Drilling

22:36 And that's changed. So you had a challenge in college. And as you remember I did two very serious and when people ask me about how I got through that time, which was a deep crisis I say that it was because of you and Mom and that's where I think I felt your love the most cuz you were just there for me as I struggled really badly for a year to what were your thoughts when you realize I was in such a bad way. And then how did you and Mom decide to help me the way you did?

23:11 Well, it was just a totally natural thing. I mean whatever problems our troubles would have you would come along and in your case, and there was and we just did whatever we could to be supportive. And that's the wrong way to be supportive. Very often is to mollycoddle A to B O. How are you today? Dear is everything. All right. Can I get you a small soft boil egg or would you like some hot chocolate?

23:45 That we never really talked about that us became free. That's real. Just let it be let it be let it whatever poison is there.

23:55 Will escape you give it a chance and you wouldn't do certain cars you but you don't owe her encouraging nature takes its course. If you put it in an environment that encourages the the love the freedom the ability to come and go do you want to sleep like sure you don't have to get up early flight. You don't want to go out. If you don't want to go to YouTube. Feeling social. Don't worry about it. I think we're pretty much left you two again help yourself to me as to solve the problems. We know what you talk. I think that now is the father of three daughters, you know, it's easy to over parent as you say or under parent and the challenges in any circumstance to find the the middle ground and so with faith right now, he's almost eighteen. Sorry for her. She's studying in Norway and Russia.

24:55 Challenges if she thinks I had but she's just gotten through a crisis about one of her courses and I think what you just described as what I certainly was able to pick up on I think the ability to show them the love and be there for them but not overdo it and not say will you know, you should write a letter to your high school counselor, but I'll do it for you. And so I think that's something we learned as you reflect on your your grandchildren and if I've got the account right there 7 and now a great-grandchild. What are your what it what are your thoughts on them? And then how does that make you feel when they're all together in and you see that great Next Generation doing what it's doing.

25:38 Will you know Asia each each one of them has a distinct personality and the cousins are all cousins and they have a distinct personality. But there's a Harmony.

25:57 Did exist

26:01 I need the and harmony.

26:05 You know it it reminds me of something. I also confused in both business and in life.

26:12 The person who's leading the orchestra.

26:16 I may not be a very good piano player violin player or anyone else, but the person leading the orchestra is response our notes and can encourage the piano player the violinist for the bassoon player, whatever to do better because but not

26:39 By preaching necessarily but

26:47 But they're not saying that because they were good business home player. They don't play the piano the orchestra leader has it can spot the sour note. So when I get a whole group of them together is a spot the differences in this that the other there very few that I ever see a sour note amongst yourselves. Let him let him be and let them grow and prosper and have their own do I never try to tell him what to do now if they come and ask you then you have to that's another thing is if to do that, but if they do have them, you have a feeling the day could come and talk to you and get something off their chest doesn't happen very often. So you're describing traits that I think Mom has also what what do you think her greatest gift is as a mom and now is a grandmother.

27:43 Well, she

27:47 She is a very simpatico person. She she's I'm I'm the outgoing one. I'm the one that is unfortunately right a wrong. I mean, I'm that way that's my chemistry is that she is quieter. She doesn't want to tell the story or whatever that she's it's the glue.

28:16 And the glue can't be cement keeps it bombs. But if you can you can you know, that is if you can't break really but it's not cement.

28:39 And that's what she's a she's marvelously that way. She's very easy to talk to and fun to be one of the parts. I think of your life that Bond's to to you is your love of books. I love the fact that when we go into the house to this day, you're both reading some fabulous book. And your mom is reading The Iliad for the third time and you're reading another amazing book about MI5 or MI6. I think that's a that's a place that I love that I think that's a model for my sisters and I as we get older just that you always have your books and I think our family on both sides of the family books have always been so important and I also see that with with your your grandchildren to Willow. I would also going back to you know, what moles what makes character and we refer to that of your kind of fun for me.

29:39 A Chris one of the great experiences in my life was when I was a special agent at working on criminal and Counter Intelligence matters with Scotland Yard in London. I Was A Bachelor. I was only 24 or something. So I went through.

29:56 The FBI Academy branch that specialized in the field that I was in counter-intelligence and criminal investigations ended up in London as Chief liaison officer with an MI5 and and the special branch of Scotland Yard, and I Was A Bachelor and I was young. How did I get that? I replaced a man. It was in his forties in the person that replace me was in the forties and I laugh about it. I say was one of the reasons was I was losing my hair and I looked a lot older 2420-20 for whatever. And but I but I looked maybe 30 so that's certainly helped. But if you talk about the learning curve, I mean that was a learning curve that you don't get in a book.

30:52 So when you look around now at at the start of the politics of the age in the state of the world and whether it's global warming or challenges we face. What what would your how does it make you feel and then what would you pass on in terms of wisdom to what's a little Sam your your great-grandson now as he's coming into a complicated World share some thoughts for him my comments because I take it. I mean the technological world didn't exist when I grew up you go to a movie that be a cereal because you come the next Saturday need to see the next day I need and now the techies are everywhere. Everybody's got a cell phone.

31:52 The picky world I never grew up in everything about I would wear it where I wear it. In fact, I don't like the word weary.

32:03 Where are you wearing doesn't do any good for anybody, but I would think that beware of those things historically mankind is always been aware of it as a problem and the meatly Springs to my mind is greed. I think greed is really a nasty thing whether it's in business or an impersonal life or anything never be

32:36 Hey a greedy person always be outgoing and and that's certainly an ethic that goes through all religions and all kinds of shapes forms of people if you say what I just don't want to be greedy so big me giving and and then I think of word that you use empathy something that shouldn't exist in everybody's life and it should be there but it should be on subconsciously that you have ties with people because that's the way I think God created man, if that's you know, it's hard, but I wouldn't I don't I don't get too concerned that I don't really think a lot about house and going to do because Santa's got a great mother and a great father and all is well and if his health is fine and

33:36 Big Al's happens and the world doesn't go down to because somebody pulls the trigger. I think it goes on and history shows that we come through all kinds of problems and pimp put so many problems that we have nothing to do with I mean infestation of some disease that comes in a fix you because nobody knew about it over some assassination or you're crazy man do crazy things but I don't have much advice except I would worry about greed and then be empathetic. I'll pick up on that. I think I hear from you is love, you know, which is empathy is version of that. And did you talk about your parents not going to church and we weren't exactly churchgoers, but we did go and and I think I think you are actions speak to the power of love one of your great toasts at weddings is even people laugh about a little bit the love toast there to decide

34:36 Lincoln wedding or somebody else's wedding and it's usually towards the end of the evening, but I think that's one of your Great Expressions about the power of it. And I I think we're not a family that says I love you all the time, but I think you and Mom have done that through your actions. And I know that it's something that Peggy and Betsy and I are so thankful for and I have tried to honor and model two and it's interesting as you know, and mentioned in my classes now and talking a lot about empathy and even love 1st Corinthians 13, and I'm sure that those seeds were planted by you all so I'm very thankful for that.

35:17 So I think we do have time for a story. So I think that in a hundred years people have got to hear the cat on the roof story. Well, the two Irish Brothers tell the story well, so I'm a little rusty but two Irish Brothers and one is going to go on a trip for a week or so, but they'll keep in touch.

35:42 So phone rings after the one Brothers gone away. Is it? Hello brother? I said everything is fine. But I do have a bad news for you.

36:03 Your cat is dead.

36:12 Didn't have to say what you mean brother. I didn't have to say is that way? Yes, what's new? Is it home? Your cat is that is fine. And by the way your catch up on the roof last night. I'm in your calf is up in the roof. The roof is it has to be cat. And did you say brother? I hate to tell you but your cat is dead.

36:55 How do you say then? I would have gotten used to the fact that there was a problem at home with me cat in the world.

37:03 Oh, I'm so sorry. Well talk to you tomorrow or the next day, I left her mother's up in the roof right now. Well, I'm glad for the future and there are many more. I have to her listeners to this that there are many more that involve many accidents with their French Canadian or Russian or British man. Maybe. I think you might need your own story Corps.

37:45 That story or did you?

37:48 No, I don't remember where I heard it was years and years ago from some friend.

37:54 What do you have any last questions for me Dad and a question for me? Oh, well gosh, then we start another 40 minutes.

38:08 IFixit to the I guess you say you're in you're looking back on your career so far. What do you think has been the major factor and I don't mean family now, but whatever Factor you want to think that makes you such a good teacher.

38:37 Whatever a natural teacher is at there's some things elements to my character. That's number one. I would say the second is

38:47 The the teachers I have had and I always think of Dan Hollins who was my teacher in 10th Grade who is extraordinary teacher but was very different than I am. He was the you know, I had to lecture notes in the yellow legal pad and was very rigorous and his style wasn't for everybody. But I think I was able to see in him as well as several others the power of a good teaching and I think that was an age there was 15 years older. So where I was just ready for that kind of a teacher so you may remember the story when I went back there about 10 years ago before I was involved with the leadership of the school now by being a board members, you know, but 10 years ago. I went back to visit I'd given a talk and the next day he invited me to come into his class and I thought I was just going to watch him teach.

39:47 But he turned on me was a Saturday morning class at the boarding school where we both went and he turned to me and he said well.

39:57 Talk to my students today. And so I suddenly realized that he was putting me on the spot for essentially 40 minutes. So I began to talk about how much that classroom meant to me and how much he meant to me and I burst into tears and I just cried and I just cuz I realize how emotional I felt at the power of everything I'd learned there and what he was to me and and I've actually my I'll finish with this. I remember very well a moment when you drove me up to that school and I walked up the stairs to the front of it and then you introduce me to Dan Holland's and Dan had a big smile and he haven't seen new me and he said well, we're so happy to have John here. So in a certain sense that was, you know, you're endorsing him and then he played a big role in my life. So I think he

40:52 He was a model for me in terms of what the power of a classroom I would make answering the question. I asked you a great teacher teaches the love of learning.

41:09 And I think that just comes naturally to you you.

41:15 If you go in a classroom and have students and they hate it because what do I have to do this what I have to read 300 pages of Cato or whatever. It might be something and you loved you come out hungry you come away from a great meal say I could do that. All teaching is teach the love of learning. Well, I guess you do. Thanks and then you and Mom at a lot to do with it. So and I'm very thankful for that.