Mary Ellen Jones and Sidney Thomas

00:02 I am Sidney Thomas. I am 17 years old. Today's date is June 9th 2017. I'm in Bloomington, Indiana and I am here with my mother.

00:12 I am Mary Ellen Jones. I am 40 years old today is June 9th 2017 located in Bloomington, Indiana and I am with my daughter.

00:22 So what was it like to have Caitlin?

00:25 Well, I was miserable when I was pregnant. I was actually very very sick and I had to lay on my left side for the last 3 months of my pregnancy. I got really really big and then she had to be induced because I got so sick. And so when we went to the hospital it took three days until she was born and then when she was born she didn't cry at first and I didn't know what that meant because it was my first baby and I just knew that from all the movies and the TV shows that when a baby's born a baby should cry and so I waited and kept asking why isn't she crying and they took her in the other room and nobody said anything to me and then she started crying and then I thought everything was fine.

01:25 They said they had two bagger for two minutes to get her to breathe, but then everything after that seemed to be okay.

01:33 And then the next day just says your dad left to go back home to go take a shower and get some food and refresh the nurse came in to check my vitals in the baby's vitals and looked over at Caitlin and said oh she's a little Dusky. We're going to go check her vitals and the nurse came back and then said we have to admit her to the NICU because her oxygen levels are low, and we don't know why so I didn't know what that meant and they were going to get a doctor to come talk to me and

02:13 It took a long time before anybody can come and tell me what was going on and two doctors came in and told me they actually weren't sure what was going on and they had to do a bunch more tests and that they just couldn't keep her oxygen level up and I had said well as she crying I said will is she going to make it through the night and the doctors had said?

02:38 I don't know.

02:42 And they couldn't tell us if she was going to live.

02:49 And the doctor started crying, so I thought for sure it couldn't have been good.

02:55 And then the next day they had found out she was having seizures still not sure why.

03:03 And they sent the priest to the room.

03:07 And I wouldn't let him come in.

03:10 Because I just couldn't.

03:15 So

03:18 It was a long stay. It seemed like forever. She was in the hospital for 10 days.

03:23 And all we knew that she had seizures at Birth and nobody really knew why.

03:30 And she left the hospital on some seizure medication.

03:35 So

03:38 It wasn't

03:40 Buy the book of what you think having your first baby should be like

03:45 But it was a it was a

03:48 I don't know that anything is by the book in life.

03:54 And then we brought her home and actually the day we brought her home. She came home on medications that we had to give her and the day we brought her home. There was a tornado that hit we lived in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. It was June of 1998 and it was this rare tornado that went up the side of a mountain.

04:18 Hardly ever happens and it happened the day that we brought her home from the hospital and then we were without any electricity for another 10 days and we had to keep our food in a cooler and her medicine in the cooler and it was extremely excruciatingly hot then so that's how that was like having Caitlin.

04:46 How do you think when you first had her and being a first-time parent till like when you had me or Morgan? How do you think that compares to what you felt like when you had Caitlin compared to a spike? Were you scared when you're having your second child or?

05:03 I wasn't scared your dad was scared. He was terrified that something was going to happen to you because of what happened to Caitlin. I wasn't scared.

05:14 Caitlin was a super happy toddler and baby and she laughed all the time and smiled all the time and never ever hardly ever cried. So I just thought she was you know, what babies were supposed to be like and I wanted more and then so then we had you and she were not happy. So I wasn't scared your dad was scared.

05:48 How do you think being a parent to someone like Caitlin with a disability heading that has changed you as a parent. I think having Caitlin has completely changed our entire.

06:04 Framework of life's

06:07 Caitlin has taught me so much patience when she was too we knew something was wrong, but we didn't know we knew something was wrong actually before then probably about a year-and-a-half cuz she started talking and then she stops talking and we went to a bunch of doctors and it took awhile to figure out what might have been going on and we did a lot of traveling to too many hospitals. We travel for 5 hours away for doctor's appointments.

06:43 To kind of get an answer and we just knew that things weren't developing right with her. Her speech was delayed. She was slow at doing all of the Milestones, but we didn't know why so that's the hardest thing as a parent to not have an answer and finally think it was about closer to when she was 3 we got an answer that she had mild cerebral palsy. And at this point she was also off of all of her seizure meds. So she wasn't having seizures at the time and she was I'm just diagnosed with mild CP and this is when we found out that it was due to head trauma when she was born from birth that she wasn't breathing and that caused the scar on her brain and cause she has mild CP from the brain injury, so

07:45 That in itself you were young then just change things. I learned so much patience from that experience and itself and then gained on that patients later on down the road as she aged. We had more problems and because of that we ended up opening our homes to other kids.

08:14 I had a lot of experience with Caitlin and the first steps program and being an occupational therapy and speech therapy when she was just a baby that we became later on down the road foster parents and some of the kids we took in will your brother particularly Ivan? We actually he was placed with us because we had so much knowledge in the same areas that he suffered in.

08:40 So I definitely think because of our experience of having Caitlin.

08:46 You know it it made our family grow tenfold literally.

08:52 What made you?

08:54 Want to adopt

08:57 When I was

08:59 Young probably younger than you. I was probably 12 or 13. I wanted my parents to adopt. I wanted a sister that I could get along with cuz I don't get along with my brother and sister and I just knew that there was a lot of people and a lot of teams that needed home and I was willing to share my room and share all my clothes and share all my things but my Mom and Dad just weren't going for it. So I think that kind of stuff with me and then we had

09:32 Kaitlyn and then we had you and then we had Morgan and then after Morgan, I knew I wanted to have more kids. I knew that my mission was to be a mom and I also did not want to birth that many children and not because I didn't like pregnancy. I loved being pregnant. It was had its ups and downs, but it was a glorious thing pregnancy wise and breastfeeding. I loved all of that but it was because I didn't think socially that it was okay to have so many children when there are so many children in the world that needed at home. So that's when we looked into becoming foster parents.

10:16 When you first listen to becoming a foster parent was it difficult and did you kind of and I like process of it start changing your mind. It was exciting. It was exciting and I was excited to see what kids we could help and what kids we would get and the whole process at the beginning was very exciting.

10:42 Their first placement was a baby right from the hospital. He remember baby Jesse and he came to us his he was born addicted to cocaine and so we went and got him right from the hospital and they willed me out in a wheelchair which I thought was silly but it's protocol and so we can we brought him home and the thought process was that we were he was probably going to be your forever baby because mama just lost two other children and no family members had came and stepped up to get the other two children and mom was really addicted.

11:23 So during that time we fostered a relationship with Mom, you know, we saw her when we would take Jesse for visits and we participated and all of those things and when Jessie was 6 months old, we were told that there was an aunt that wanted him and because there was an ant and it was Ken then he left and within two weeks. He left and it broke my heart.

11:50 And I said we will never do that again.

11:56 I remember when like I wasn't even that old, but I remember when Jesse left and how upset you were but then we adopted a bunch more kids. So what made you change your mind about when Jesse left I cried for a couple days solid and then a couple days after that. It was like losing a child. It was really hard.

12:21 In the hardest times when we would go to church. I couldn't keep my act together every time we were driving to church and which church I just

12:28 Cried I was so sad. But then I think in the healing I thought who else can we help and that's kind of when it was probably within a month or two later the same case manager who was involved with Jesse sent us a link about a boy who had already had a field adoption. He was three going on for at the time and had already had seven homes. He was in a 7th home.

13:01 And this was your brother Ivan, and he was the one that needed some like his sensory issues and some other issues that we had experience with Caitlin. So we thought we we did this we did like an application cuz he didn't live here. He lived in another part of the state. And so that's how we moved on with Ivan was new when did an interview and then they came out to the house. You probably don't remember he were young they came out to the house and drove to the house and looked at the house and met you guys and did another interview and then then they called us and said, you know, we picked you to be his home and then so he moved in with us and at that time he turn t-turn for on the day that they decided we were going to be his forever family.

13:53 And then sell Trevor came, but he came a little bit after you came just a couple months after and he was here in Bloomington.

14:05 And his mother he was shaken baby syndrome and he was 11 months when we got home and when we got him, he was already available for adoption, which is kind of rare at 11 months, but his mom had killed herself and then his dad signed off because Trevor presented to be very medically fragile and nobody really wanted to sign on to take care of him or they didn't think they could it was a grandmother who just said I can't I'm too old. I can't care for him. Not that they didn't want him. They just couldn't take care of him.

14:50 And again because of the medical experience we have experience with Caitlin and then Ivan now, we felt confident that we could take him, but Trevor at the time.

15:03 Didn't move and we thought we were potentially getting a child that would be in a wheelchair and maybe even lose his sight within the next six months because of the shaken baby syndrome and we got Trevor and we put in for steps therapy and all his surface will come out to the house. He did Physical Therapy memory have braces for a little while and braces on his legs. He had occupational therapy.

15:31 You did not have speech and you and Morgan and

15:39 Caitlin you guys just sat around and watch the surface work and you all packed your own bags and you can fight over who's going to play therapy next and so Trevor virtually got 24/7 therapy because of coming into our home and you remember Aunt being a therapist. Yeah walking around with a bag just like therapist did

16:00 And because of that before he was even three he can if he didn't age out of First Steps, he grew out of First Steps because he was a normal three-year-old at 3 years old.

16:13 Which was awesome.

16:17 And then do you remember what kiddos came next into our lives again? Like seeing Maddie?

16:30 Remember the day they came.

16:34 No, not really. I feel like I was in no adopted them in April, right? We adopted them in April when they got adopted but they lived with us for two and a half years as Foster siblings before that happened. I feel like I remember the first time I met them I was the first time but this is the furthest I can remember I was in gymnastics then and I had just came back from a practice with Morgan and we get into the house and there are three girls there and

17:06 I was like kind of

17:09 If you bought it because I felt like I wasn't going to have like all the attention for my mom because there are so many kids in the house and what else was excited because more sibling some more people to play with.

17:24 But I don't know like I think I was just so overwhelmed by the feeling with excitement and kind of worried.

17:38 Yeah, they came to us as an emergency placement.

17:42 Again due to abuse and we were not at that point we had already had five kids and we thought we had completed our family. We weren't really looking to take any other kids and we are kind of busting at the seams so they came in and lived with us and it was kind of a rough couple years when they were with us as a foster placement and we had some significant behaviors. We had some issues with the family. I don't know that you would remember much of that cuz of your age at the time.

18:21 But then it came time to adoption and then we adopted them as well.

18:28 So now we're up to eight kids.

18:37 After that, I don't know how long it was after.

18:43 Play adoption several years later.

18:46 And then your dad and I divorced and we split.

18:50 Before that we had the apple on and we did have yeah, we had a deal that we had been another baby in foster care for a while for sure thought he was going to stay with us, but then things got complicated and difficult and they left. Yes, they did get complicated and difficult.

19:12 Do you remember why he left?

19:16 I remember that.

19:19 Because like Lexi and Maddie and Vivian there just kind of different in they have like a lot of issues that they brought with them from leaving their house and

19:33 Just all kinds of stuff happened and then I end up having to leave our home and going into foster care and I don't know if it's just then after that I come back home and we'll before that. I remember that they just immediately like we're in the backyard on the back porch and they just melee like took you have one and they just left with him and then we all had to leave in the car and I thought that like when we were going to come back that we would see him again, but we didn't and I wasn't really sure why he wasn't able to come back.

20:06 I was a hard time.

20:08 Yep. I was at the hospital with your sister when I heard that they took the Avalon and we would never see him again.

20:26 And do you know why they came?

20:29 I know that.

20:31 It was during the summer. I think we were all outside. I know that.

20:39 That summer was just a hard summer. And I know that Lexie and Maddie were refusing to eat and they were just I don't even like I don't know why it was like that but it was and I remember that she I don't I don't know. I just know that she just wasn't something happen and was it the time when she like threw herself Down The Back Stairs like in the backyard and

21:08 Then I guess that you were accused like pushing her down the stairs cuz she and maybe grandma told everyone and then we all just for taken like I couldn't say anything I couldn't do anything by just remember.

21:22 Having a hurry up and pack my bag and bring one stuffed animal and leaving and not really good an explanation of things for a long time. Yeah, that was really hard. Yeah. It was really hard.

21:35 Yeah, that was a result of.

21:41 Your sister's not having.

21:46 Proper Mental Health

21:52 I think it's hard because I don't healthcare for the longest time. I get took a long time for me to realize that mental health is actually a thing and that

22:02 Like I don't know. I just I always never really understood like

22:07 What it was that it was actually like a real thing, but after me growing up and then like with everything that has happened with our family and all of that. I realize that it is a real thing and I feel like people should start taking it a lot more seriously and like

22:24 I don't know. I feel like the resources that we have like cuz we do have good resources for like mental health, but I feel like

22:33 We can just reach out more and I don't know it could just be more of a thing because

22:39 It's more present than I realized. I think a lot of people deal with that more than I realized. I think.

22:44 I don't know. No, I think that's true lot of people deal with it more than you realize it's hard as a parent to realize that your child has mental health issues. And that's essentially what was happening. You know, your sister was hurting herself and then saying that I did it and because we were foster parents they had to immediately act ain't no kind of act now and ask questions later which

23:10 Was horrible for a family and in the end in the wash it all came out, you know, and in the end mad, he's a completely different person now, but we've had years in between where it's been hard and she's been in the hospital and she's been out of the hospital and she's been in the hospital now the hospital all for her mental health issues and each time. It's never been easy, you know, and even since then she's done, you know, she makes tons of allegations just when she's mad and that it's gotten easier. But how many times you know is DCs is knocked on our door because Maddie didn't like the sheets she slept with last night. So she went to school and said that she has horrible living conditions, you know me and it's happened so many times and as a parent it's not easy to recognize that your child has mental health issues, but I think then when you understand that and are able to help them

24:10 They get a sense of relief and we do have a lot of resources, but they're nearly not as good or as many as we need to have and that's hard to you know, we struggled with getting the right care for both Maddie and Lexie and Ivan, you know, all three of them have some significant mental health problems that have impacted our lives but it's definitely been a struggle. It's not been easy and we went through a long time with Ivan acting out and I could not get a therapist or a skills life skills coach. I'm bored. I just couldn't I couldn't do it. It was impossible it seem like they just there's such a shortage of people and the turnaround so high, you know, when mad he's been in wraparound services for a long time now.

25:01 But how many different life skills coach has she had a lot a lot. She is seeing a lot of people. I mean she gets I think there's I don't even know if Wednesday is a full year.

25:17 You know, so that's hard to.

25:21 You think if you had the chance to go back like from the very beginning of having Caitlin having us and adopting kids and like all of that and remodeling the house so we can fit more kids then why do you think you would change anything?

25:36 No, I think I've had days that that works extremely stressful that I would say. Why did I do this? You know, there's days that I just

25:49 Want to give up but those are also the days that he know we had three kids. That Ivan's been I haven't been on meds for a long time for his mood disorders and such but the other two were on medicated for a long time. And so that was really really hard and even with the proper medication and it's not always easy sew on the really really really tough days sometimes and like I can't anymore but that was all so much earlier in my parenting life because now that I've got a lot of time under my belt, you know, I was

26:31 We took in three five kids, but you know three of them that had significant mental health issues that I really didn't know what I was doing. You know, we have a lot of experience with

26:46 Physical things but I just didn't have a lot of experience with mental health issues, especially in children. So there was a huge learning curve and that learning curve. Yeah. I wanted to quit sometimes but I wouldn't go back. You know, I wouldn't go back and then because of that I think it was all easier for us to become a blended family when Justin I got married cuz now you have three Step Brothers 2 and the blending went really really well. Yeah. Yeah. So what I mean would you

27:24 Take it all back. I don't know. I think that kind of like we're saying sometimes you just have this hard days and it's like why did I get stuck like this but then I think about it and I think about from the person I was when I was younger and like now and how much I can understand things about Blended families and how much and how much stronger I have grown as a person because I've gone through all these things and so I know I when I go back, I don't think I would

27:54 Even if it means you could like go to Disney World all the time and go out to eat all the time because you're an only child or there's only two of you now, I wouldn't I think I having 10 siblings. It's like Disney World 24/7.

28:06 What about

28:10 Tell me what what it's like to go out to eat in our family. Well, we don't go very often. But when we do, it's usually the kids like to vote for Golden Corral by the hungry heifer. That's a that's what we're gal. And usually I was going to drink spell on you or something like that happens. If someone always ends up crying whether it's Jack the youngest one or me. One of the oldest one.

28:43 Interesting, but it's Papa Joe's favorite place to take us. Yeah, they think it's a dinner and a show.

28:50 So I think that's why they give us gift cards every Christmas cuz they like to take us there and sit back and watch all of these events and Chaos while they're eating.

29:05 So what do you think about he knows in the last step was kind of adding your brothers and they kind of came one at a time your Step Brothers about the divorce was hard on everyone and then then there was a new marriage along with all of the other things we had going on he and I became then a single mom to eight kids, you know, I was doing it all by myself for a for a while and

29:34 You know, we had all of that and I relied a lot on you to help out at that time, and then Justin came along so

29:42 How did that affect you I think that it was hard for a long time for me to really accept Justin as like a father figure because I don't know. It's just it was something different and it was just I think hard too.

29:58 Really understand that he was coming into our lives and

30:03 I meant I think now like I wouldn't change anything. You know, I think that he is a great guy and you guys have gone you guys have come far in life, you know from his aspect of his past in your past and

30:20 It's definitely different and

30:23 I know sometimes it's hard because I don't really see Dad but I also just have a weird relationship with him and then having like his kids come in like me and Corbin Carson and Jack I think at first it kind of upset me cuz I was like tired of having kids coming to the house. I'm going to just I don't know but

30:47 I think that it was a good thing because like specially when I change schools like Corbin, he was the only one that works with me at luncheon.

30:58 So I think that

31:01 No earlier, you said something about when the when the girls came so you were worried about not getting enough attention and I think there's a lot of judgment about families that are large that they can't give each kid a lot of attention and we have, you know, total of 11 kids and some of them have mental health issues, you know, some of them have you no other ailments

31:28 How

31:30 Tell me about the attention that you think you get is it adequate?

31:36 Yeah, I think so because do you know people would say there's no way no way they even did that when we you know, did it have 11 we had 8 or 5 it like there's no way all those kids are getting the attention they need I think people just don't understand our way of doing life. Like I don't know it just it works for us like and you don't really have an explanation of how it works, but it's like because for me starting out being younger like and just kind of having that experience of people coming into your life and you kind of spreading out that attention. It's like

32:14 I don't know. I feel like just love is such a strong thing and no matter how many people are in your life for no matter how big your family is. I think that no matter what like the love the attention is going to be all around and I think that there's always going to be like our times of not feeling like my mom's here cuz she's dealing with Maddie cuz Maddie is acting up or a lot of people be like, how do you like getting up attention? Like how do you feel you don't like and I I thought you would come ask me that but it's like it just

32:46 The way of trying to explain it as hard cuz she have to like go through it to really understand the way our family works. And there's a I think a lot more love cuz there's a lot more people. Yeah a lot more people to lean on butt.

33:03 We function pretty smooth.

33:12 Really hard timers and also really good time them both and if you want to ask me be

33:22 What was one of your

33:27 Happiest memories

33:32 One of my happiest memories was probably when I came back from foster care because leaving like tore me to pieces and I don't know if I was going to come back and I really hate it at the foster home. I was one of the worst summer is for me and then I had to go to public school for the first time because all those years. I was homeschooled. To go to Polk School and it was just I was so uncomfortable and I get to see you guys and we had to do visits and I just felt like why was happening to me and because it's like, you know as a kid, I thought that we open up our home to all these kids and then like happened to us, but

34:14 I think coming back home was

34:17 My happiest time I get everything because

34:20 Cuz that relief of sadness kind of went away, and I was just back home and I felt like things were coming back together.

34:30 But are you was your happiest moments? I have a lot of them and I can't really narrow it down. That's definitely one but I think I was happy every time somebody join the family. You know anytime I had a kid anytime we took someone and and I am happy when we go to Florida and see Papa Joe because it's neat that we're all together for a while and we're traveling together and making those memories and that were able to do that.

35:03 And it makes me happy that Kitty goes with us to

35:10 What would you say living in the big family or even with adopted siblings? How do you think that is?

35:21 Going to affect your future and the decisions you will make as an adult. I think growing up with the big family and experiencing a lot of different kind of mental health issues and disabilities. I think that it'll definitely help with my parenting skills because I want a big family and I want a lot of kids and I think that learning from you and your struggles and your

35:46 Oh my gosh, your struggles and the things that you've learned. I think that will help me when I grow up and whether I decide to adopt or whether I decided just to have my own kids and I think that even now from when I first went into foster care until now like I think that I've grown from it and I I am a different person because of everything that we've gone through.

36:15 Would you say or what would you want everyone to know what it's like being a parent when you are divorced as just a single mom to eight kids and now to having 10 kids and you know a husband like what would you want people to know and learn from like our family for me from being a single mom to becoming a blended family? Yeah.

36:41 Well, it was really hard very hard to be a single mom and I accepted that because I wanted to be happy and at the end of the marriage with your father, I was not happy and things weren't working out no matter how hard we tried to make them work out.

37:06 So I at that point accepted happiness over material things, you know, I thought there was a good chance. We're going to lose the house and we could have him lose the cars and I wasn't sure what was going to happen, but

37:24 I we were happier, you know, it was really hard but I was happier and so also because I had eight children and several with different disabilities. I had decided that I would probably never remarry because it would take somebody that was super crazy to even went to step into something like that. Like that's asking a lot of somebody was asking a lot of me at that time. And then when I met Justin he said well, I have a lot of kids you just laughed that had to been the funniest thing I heard and so he like kids and I like kids and it just kind of works out. So I guess there was like

38:17 My kind of crazy out there. I would I would have never known that and so now being Blended was really neat. It was a neat thing. It was super different then.

38:29 You know any any other aspect of life, but I've enjoyed watching you guys come together and become siblings and Friends.

38:50 What do you think are some of the most important lessons that I've taught you?

38:57 Sharing I think sharing is something that I've learned and that you taught me. I'm in loving unconditionally no matter what no matter how bad a person treats you.

39:11 I think that it's hard to learn that but I think that you

39:16 Taught me not only taught me but show me that.

39:20 The loving is sometimes hard, you know and sometimes you don't want to but you do and I think that's an important lesson that everyone should learn that no matter what happens or how bad the situation may seem you just have to kind of

39:35 Open your arms and just share and love no matter what. Yeah and protect your own heart at the same time. Yeah, that's a difficult thing to protect your heart and still keep loving.

39:53 I have a couple of minutes. Is there anything that you want to tell each other that you haven't told each other before any laugh?

40:12 Well, I love you, and I'm so glad that you're my mom.

40:20 I love you, and I'm so proud of you.

40:26 You've been a big help throughout some of the hard times and you make me so proud.

40:32 I'm proud of the woman you're becoming.