Ruth Moss-Katsnelson and Julie Katsnelson

00:04 Hi, my name is Julia. Katznelson. I'm 22 years old today is July 5th 2017. We are in Detroit Michigan and I'm talking with my mother today.

00:19 Hi, my name is Ruth Moss kids Nelson. I am 65 years old and it is July 5th 2017. We are in Detroit, Michigan. We're doing the interview for storycorps and I am the mother of Julie katznelson.

00:37 So I guess I'll I'll start.

00:41 This is really dedicated to our future descendants. And that would be to the children of Julie and Laura katznelson and all their cousins that may come from them. I want to give you an idea of who we are so you can know who you are. We are Jewish Ashkenazi Jews me that we came from my grandparents. My grandpa great-grandparents came from Central Europe, Russia and Poland and my mother was Helen Larry Moss. My father was Victor moss and a Helen was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1927 her family. The Leary name goes back many done it many many generations and I just gave you a quick genealogy. We found out that way back in 1820.

01:41 5 there's a Joseph Elyria.

01:44 And Poland or Belarus or the 3DS somewhere in that area and he had a son named Asher Gershon who was born in 1850 and he became the rabbi of repent and pearl Poland and was there for forty years and through genealogy work found out all this information on him. His wife is Shana genda laser Jacobson there they had many children. They had about seven children. The oldest was Abraham or second oldest son was Abraham and Abraham was not a Torah scholar and he left home. He was a black sheep of the family and he married Esther karasick and they moved to Chicago, Illinois and around 1900 1903 and had many children had 11 children Alexander was the second oldest child.

02:44 And Alexander, Larry was the father of Helen and very interesting man, very gregarious and also very much like his father. Not a good student very funny. Then make a good living and always has problems with that. His wife was Ethel and

03:06 Levy and her family was a, Netsky.

03:11 So that's my mother Helen side and my father was Amiyah Scott ski, Jacob music of Stevie and his mother was

03:24 Anna Zak slavsky z i s l o v s k y and they

03:33 Came from the Ukraine.

03:36 And I'm the father side Julie and Laura's father side is Gennady katznelson is their father and he was born in 1952 like me. He was born in Minsk Belarus and his family is was once the name is Captain ellenbogen, and it was then shortened to katznelson. So they family just that comes from a little town in in Belarus.

04:09 Bob risk

04:11 And we think that there are kids Nelson news in Israel that are related to one of them being Barrel katznelson. Not sure but he looks just like Daddy. Anyway, that's that's a little bit of R&R direct genealogy. And one of the questions I've had many growing up is a Jewish person in America is did I ever lose anybody in the Holocaust never thought we really ever did and come to find out that yes. We did the lyria family those who did not emigrate and there were too many siblings were all killed and very much in the beginning of the war on 1941. They were shot and killed in the forest.

04:56 There were three siblings that left Belair kitchen kitchen.

05:06 Ripon area and they went to was then mandate Palestine and we have Leary relatives that are living in Tel Aviv. And they my contact is deronne Larry Jacobs Over the Rhone blurry and he is one of the curators at the Tel Aviv Museum of Art. So we have definitely lost a relative in the Holocaust.

05:34 And so Julie had a close relationship with her grandmother Helen on my mother and Helen died about three years ago and would love love to have her read something that she wrote.

05:50 About her

05:53 Okay, my mom really wants me to read this essay that I wrote for my college entrance essay for 4 years ago and the question asks.

06:08 Indicate a person who has had a significant influence on you and describe that influence. So I talks about my grandmother Helen Moss. My mother's mother and

06:23 She's a really special person growing up.

06:28 And yeah, I miss her very much and this essay was written after she had

06:35 A bad surgery in 2012 and she did survive that surgery. However, she died in 2014. So at the time that I wrote this essay she was she was just I'm coming off of this surgery and and was really very much full of life and and struggling and trying to to cling to life.

07:14 So this is my a save. No one knows exactly what it takes to keep deaths. Scaly. It decayed hands from extinguishing the delicate Light of Life By Truckers. Berlina sore and athletes dexterity may not necessarily be a Saving Grace. In fact the tiniest and most fragile person I've ever known recently escaped from the clutches of death with just her will to live before the summer. She was simply my Grande on my short chicken legs eager little Grandma who owns animal printed leggings and a Facebook account to her husband. She was dear to her daughter's Mommy and to her grandchildren Nana, but she was so much more than that. She was the cement that kept The Brick House of my family together.

07:59 Surrounding herself with the people. She loved adored by everyone who encountered her not a negative word was ever said against her. She genuinely fulfilled her version of the American dream and filled every corner of her existence with what she valued most classic novels coffee yogurt and the family dog Kirby the foundation of our Cozy home finally show up this past July when Anna got stomach surgery. She very nearly died from the painful infectious aftermath with raging pneumonia and both of her lungs survival was a long shot. However, despite the fact that my life loving grandmother was physically dying her will never bent and dust favor at first. I wondered what made her cling to life like a drowning man to a life preserver surely no person values their existence so much that they would go through the excruciating torture that my grandma endured but now I understand that passion for her family was what kept her from sinking.

08:59 Her role as mother wife and grandmother was not quite over yet not when there were still wedding to attend family dinners to cook and great-grandchildren to me. She realized that are shattered brick home might never repair itself without her presents.

09:16 Her successful battle against death prove to me the value of a life nanas strong-willed determination one Against All Odds for just one reason. She wanted to live to Value her life above the comfort of taking the easy way out and avoided the fall into the deep Abyss Beyond life despite this incredible feat her attempt to return to a normal healthy state will be a long and strenuous Road not suited for the faint-hearted. But still she holds her head up high picking up the pieces of a broken house to rebuild it Brick by Brick.

09:52 Julie has always been a wonderful writer. I want to talk a little bit about my my mother-in-law Julie's grandmother Celia katznelson, and I was a little bit about 1941 at that time. She was Julia's age, maybe even younger.

10:12 Julia she was your age when the stage right now when the Germans invaded she'd just finished college. She was Doctor already and had already just married your grandfather Salomon and at that point she was in the countryside taking away when she was on assignment in a small village and her sister and her sister's child was with visiting two sisters and their child and it was summer time is right around now and this was a small I think a little smile tells the shadow where she was actually born in dollar in Belarus and Hitler invaded and this was the Blitzkrieg which they destroyed Minsk they went in within a couple days and they destroyed and everybody was taken and her father Michael was in the ghetto the mints keto as what they did. They did. They create all the Jews were herded into the into men's skin.

11:12 And there were surrounding areas and in a ghetto your grandfather Salem it was called up by the Russian army, I guess and abandon the family all the men were called to the to the to go to the art into the army so that people are on their own.

11:31 So silly, yeah, they know what was going on and they just ran they actually did she what she put she had a small little bag of luggage bag. She threw her medical book in there and she and they just took off and they went East and they got on a big boat and they kept on moving and all the way into ended up way into Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan over it was a long many years and was separated from the rest of the family and she had a number of different Adventures, but she would describe being a November without a coat

12:05 And having a really big on the on the street, so she was taken in by families and then the house and finally found after years got a little job and a relocated Military Academy and Rebecca stand when she became the doctor and at that point, she got reunited with her sister and family because they had gotten separated long on the road and she worked for this little Military Academy and she would bring home food for them from the dinner table to feed them to her feed her family and she never gave up the Habit Xian would take food and and and so she always care for others incredible woman, and I'm sorry you didn't get to know your grandfather's home. And I really didn't know him very well myself, but it was very sweet guy. Very very nice affable type personality.

12:59 So we have an interesting background we come from and she was quite a fighter or Survivor.

13:07 She had the skills to they were transferable.

13:11 In all which was the best that she could take her scooter medical skills and use them in Reno somewhere else. And that was one of the reasons why she survived so one of the things that is now is really important to me historically. This is our Jewish Heritage and I hope that that gets passed on

13:29 I think that we would we brought that something to the world that I don't want to see disappear.

13:34 So that we continue that keep that going I'll talk a little bit about myself and about you and personality types in about her father. And cuz I think this is going to be important to know for the future.

13:48 I'm incredibly sensitive person too much more feeling much more emotional and I kind of think with my heart over my head but their father your father going to have much more of a rational is the math major and I'm the kind of States history and the social worker social work major. I'm I am a social worker and he went into computer when they left Russia. He was refused to leave several times and spent about a year kind of like in limbo on his job and very weathered it and finally they let him leave and he work for a company that was kind of a knock off of IBM. So when he came to the United States, he was able to find work real pretty readily and was very very fortunate and he's worked ever since it is a very pragmatic person nuts.

14:48 Very emotional at all. And so we kind of balance each other quite a bit cuz I'm very hyper emotional.

14:56 And Juliet, you know, what do you think about yourself? What kind of personality do you think he's just as she doesn't like being put on the spot but Julie is a lot looking like your dad and a more like her mother my mother-in-law think when you were first born I said, I looked at you as Davis of my garage is a spitting image of you get out of here though. So I'm just very much looks like him her older sister. Laura is very much like looks more like a cat smells inside being that she has let her hair and and and blue eyes and Julie is on the docking side of my my my mother-in-law's it was her maiden name is Erica. I don't see I see more of your father's side and both of you than than any other people.

15:51 Other people don't but personality was maybe Julie some of her stubbornness may become a custom route from me. I'm not sure. He's a very good girl, but she is a rather stubborn.

16:08 Call Julianne like a favorite memory.

16:12 Okay. Well whatever favorite memories comes to mind was when as a baby you.

16:20 We're looking is our alarms in the bathtub. And then you came in and you were just saying, you know talking and you cannot bend over and you fell right in head-first, you're probably maybe 18 months or some like that I scooped you out and oh my God, I thought you drowned and I called the doctor said don't worry should buy a scarlet fever. I think it was and I got you in the doctor and you got your medication and it was

16:51 I got nothing what's wrong with that? And yeah.

16:58 No, no Julie is moving on to the Big World. She's getting a job in Washington DC. She just finished finish the University of Michigan.

17:15 I don't know what to say mean and I'm not really sure. Yep. That's basically.

17:27 Studied environmental policy

17:32 And I just came back from traveling in Europe for two months, which was quite an experience some really good days. I had some not good days, but the most part it was this guy that I learned a lot about myself and who I am when I travel and some that are hard to say.

17:57 There were well.

18:00 There was a few days where I was a little bit lonely because people didn't really speak English in and I think I realize I'm a very social person and I like speaking to people even if it's just even if I know that I'm not going to

18:16 Continue any kind of relationship with them but I feel like for myself. I am a very social person and I think I think growing up I've always been told that I'm like my dad and he's not a very social person. So I think I saw that I was less social than I I am. So I think I'm learning a lot about myself independent of what other people tell me that I am because people have also often told me what I am and who I am and I think I'm finally at the stage where I'm I can I'm realizing that I'm not necessarily what what people say that I am I can be different things.

18:56 So I can be independent and I

18:59 And I feel proud of myself for that because I was a little bit nervous that I was just going to be paralyzed once I realized I was somewhere and knowing it without anyone that I knew in a country where I that I didn't know anything about but it was really empowering. I would say that I would say is pretty was pretty empowering of an experience and

19:25 Oh, that's so hired. Everyone asks me what my favorite places and that's obviously really hard.

19:38 I think ya when I you know when I

19:44 I had some pretty bad traveling like actually moving from point A to point B, and when I figured out that like it's okay. It's not the end of the world, you know least I'm not dead so I can you know, it's as long as I can as long as I'm still here I would say there was just one travel experience where I was on a train and I was on I was on three different trains to get from Geneva Switzerland to Salzburg and the last train just never came and so I had to go to the information desk and I was fighting with them and

20:28 The hay they they thought that I missed it when I clearly I was at the platform and the train just never came and so I had to take another like three two trains in one bus to get there and it was it was really yeah. And by the time I I got to Salzburg, I was like, all right. I'm just going to take a taxi, even though I hate taking taxis and I usually just walk everywhere but I'm really glad I did take a taxi because otherwise I would have been I would have been walking up a mountain. So and then I met a bunch of people and have a lot of fun those couple of days. So I never would have happened if I didn't decide to just go off on my own and do something different. So that's great adventure adventure. That's great. I'm Julie's very pragmatic like her dad a good saver. You can see that you can learn that taking taxis now.

21:25 Oh gosh, I want to see a couple things. I learned I want to pass on and in life that I learned about myself that in case you haven't heard it a personality looks a little bit like a lot like mine. What are the thing is is is to think before you open your mouth and not speak when you're upset. Tell yourself DNR do not respond to give yourself some time to to think to try to think ahead before you you do something at all times always think I had before what's going to happen if this if I do this than Aiden be what will happen and see what happened in such so you're looking at patterns and the second thing is to always encourage yourself in when things are tough to say things to yourself that are affirmations that are saying I can do this. I'm getting am good. I I can I can get through this just tell yourself encouraging words when you're in the middle of something difficult because it keeps you going you can try to keep yourself.

22:25 Helen has some beautiful words to say for newly married couples that read which I'm going to read and

22:36 So this is for what was used at weddings and her family.

22:41 Just going through your early dating and prenuptial experiences has brought.

22:48 I'm sorry have have taught you to a great deal about each other after the initial euphoria that comes with falling in love sexual satisfaction. And Sherry casks parents has the real work of marriage begins. Everyone talks about the importance of respect, but it is truly the foundation of any marriage. This means to me to recognize and honor the opinions habits and preferences of your loved one. Each one's experiences have been different and logically the reaction to these form over former personalities. You made you may disagree about certain things but each one has an opinion to be honored.

23:32 Men and women have different needs very different and early in the marriage. Each partner has to recognize and satisfy to the best of their ability Disney's from my experience men want to feel taken care of to be able to return to return to their wives arms for feelings of warmth and security a loving breast if you will.

23:55 Women why do I feel security and to feel exclusive with a man who has strong protector shoulders?

24:03 Will he be there for her and her children?

24:06 Both men and women need to feel appreciated given recognition for the work. They do in the marriage as well as out in the world. It can be a cruel rejecting world, but the marriage should be a loving shelter to close out the world.

24:25 The poet Khalil Gibran in the prophet described a marriage as the trees as a tree or as two trees rather with strong trunks deeply rooted and planted in the ground and with large leafy branches meeting at the top giving giving Shelter From The Elements below.

24:49 Precise understanding the partner is very important to know we went self. I learned this from my daughter Susie. She and her fiance were planning their wedding and every time I was there was bickering and fighting and I came to her and said quotes. It's not too late to call it off.

25:07 She said why would I do that? I said because all you do is seem to fight. I foolishly answered. So just said call off the wedding. She love the question that's ridiculous. We love each other and we're fighting because he has to establish his territory. If he didn't I take over his life. This is very important work that we're doing right here. She said

25:31 So that was it. I shut up. I learned that every couple has different work to do some perhaps medicine at so noisily there still happily married after 28 years and I must admit they're still fighting so much for advice.

25:49 So Julie, thank you so much for doing this with me. Really appreciate your your participating. I wish Laura was able to join us on a hike right now and she's had on a hike and Laura's living in Boston right now and going on to her next adventure in in her career Julie launching her career in the world, which is going to be working in DC Washington DC for company called Booz. Allen and life is good. I'm retired for that is retired. We bought a place in Florida and we're having a wonderful time on Longboat Key in Florida as well as in, Michigan.

26:28 So I we wish our future Generations life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness and good health, and I did mention that I have three sisters, but there are Susie Cheryl and Karen and they all have children and so Explorer genealogy, and you'll find out the rest of the information. Thank you.