Harriet Murphy and Anita Dabney

00:07 Ready for me.

00:11 My name is Judge Harriet and Murphy and today is January 12th, 2018 and I am now in Austin Texas and the relationship that I have with my partner who's with me. That's the real both graduates of Spelman College and she's president of a Spelman College chapter here and we'll both members of the Austin chapter of links and we come together and many other organization. So we are pretty close. So twosome. My name is Anita Elizabeth, Dabney. And today's date is January 12th, 2018. Where in Austin, Texas?

01:04 And I am a friend of Judge Harriet Murphy and I invited her to come today as I recall. We were first introduced at Midtown live before they had a fire there. We were introduced because we were both graduates of Spelman College in Atlanta that she mentioned and it turned out as a native of Atlanta. You also knew some of my family members too. Blatant family. My mother Louis blayton Dabney. Also a Spelman graduate has often said you should always have younger friends and element to staying youthful and aging gracefully and through my experiences with you. I have learned it is great to be the younger friend. There is smoke so much. I have learned and appreciate from interactions with seasoned women such as you as the younger friend sometimes serving a chauffeur companion or confident. I have benefited in many ways.

02:02 Attending culturally significant events and social Gatherings meeting Fascinating People. I've gained insight into the city the universities and the history and colorful Texas personalities judge Murphy has encouraged me to learn how to play bridge and courage and advise me and chairing the Spelman alumni group and sponsor me to become a member of the Austin chapter of the links as she mentioned. Her personality is reflected by her vibrant red hair a signature feature. She has endless drive and persistence and many find her unbelievably direct overbearingly insistent with a highly competitive nature, but I have reflected on what does it take to be successful as a black woman in Texas, especially coming from a city like Atlanta. We're proving your worth is not a fundamental daily tasks, but in Texas it often is if you don't promote yourself,

03:02 Will so I thought you would enjoy sharing some of your stories about your life and how you have come this far.

03:10 I guess it all began and Atlanta Georgia in Buckhead, which in those days was the most influential part of the city of Atlanta, but it was at a time when we were experiencing a lot of segregation in this country. It just so happened that in that area just like an Austin would cost me that was certain pockets of black people and I lived in one of those Pockets we had separate schools to go to whites were busted a schools, but we had to walk 2 hours and I could just go on and on about the inequality which I experience doing a very young age and

04:10 But I think I enjoyed it all because people always encouraged me as a young girl so that out of that Community where I grew up there were only two of us who finally finished high school and then went on to college and of course completed college. So I think that I had quite a bit of support from the older black people and of course working in the church as a young person and even becoming Clerk of the church at 13 or 14 of this country charge, but it was going to high school that I began to bloom and also getting into Spelman College and changing residue

05:10 It's from being out in Buckhead to live with distant relatives in Atlanta. So I think that I got a pretty good background in college and in high school. It was the only high school that was only one high school in Atlanta, Georgia, and it was Booker T, Washington High so that all the black kids in Atlanta had to go to that high school. And since I lived in Fulton County and we didn't have a high school where I could attend I also was assigned to go to Booker T, Washington High and that is a school where I met Martin Luther King who was a student in high school there and we never called and Martin.

06:10 So we always called him ml in high school and I never would have thought that he would have become as famous as he finally did but at that school was some kind of the beginning of his pursuit of equality in this country because I was in the 1944 year book. He wrote an essay called The Negro in the Constitution and he was only about 14 or 15 years old at that time and end essay. He talked about how we suffered as blacks under the system of racism. He talked about Mary and I cannot think of in the mayor of Anderson who was not allowed to sing at constitutional Hall, but mrs. Roosevelt ended.

07:10 Intervene intervene and was able to allow her either to sing there at least some other place and he went on that one day. He hope that these children I was black you and Saxon would be able to live together peacefully and it's just amazing that he was into that. But then again when you think about Atlanta in those days, you're looking at a Renaissance city and what your family played a large part and because your uncle Professor Layton was the person who started the first black Bank in Atlanta and that was willing to hear the business school, right? The blatant business colleges out, right and that was the president of Morehouse. What was his name?

08:10 Oh, that was your friend. I remember he was a kind of a leader and breaking barriers in the community and all that was Whitney Young who started the Urban League the National Urban League and then of course there was a doctor Dubois who was teaching there and of course he was so well-known. So all of this probably had a great influence upon Martin Luther King and in those days, even when you went to Church's I like Wheat Street Baptist Church, the pastor would talk about the conditions under which we had to endure and he laid was the person who desegregated the buses the pastor in Atlanta, Georgia. So we lived in that kind of

09:10 Environment but all of us will not activist at that time is Martin Luther King was but I had this wonderful experience of meeting. Dr. Dubois who was w e b Dubois who was teaching at Atlanta University. I had read something about him. And when I was in the 11th grade 11th grade teacher suggested that fart assignment she was going to assign all of us to interview some great leader and Atlanta and since I had heard about him, I chose to be the one to interview him. And of course, I knew that he was the first black to

10:10 Get a PhD at Harvard and that he later was one of the founders of the very famous Boule fraternity that exists even today and that is even powerful powerful organization today, but I did not really study enough to be an interviewer. I had 11 years old. I mean in 11th grade not 11 years old, but is the 11th grade and when I went to interview him

10:49 I didn't really have a third interview and of course he could understand that I was liking in a lot of information about him. So he suggested that I go out into the lobby of his office and his secretary gave me a book about him and which I caught a lot of material on him and turned it into my 11th grade teacher and made a very good grade. But what happened which was very funny. Was that my the next year. My teacher was a mrs. L dietsch Ivory at Booker T, Washington High who would answer the telephone when everybody called her and say that I'm Doctor LDShadowLady who would be president who would be the principal of this school if I wasn't a woman so she was kind of an activist

11:49 That time but she was his official. She let us know that she was his official a Hostess while he was at Atlanta University because her husband had committed suicide who was a doctor and she was kind of off some too. But in that class since I was in the act and in the academic part of the school the school had these three institutions the academic the commercial and the distributive education. So I was in the section of the academics and that meant that we would all you know, stay in our same class. And of course we all took English from here to sharbot. So are you after that happen? Mrs. Sherry said to the class she said, do you know when I talk about

12:49 The great doctor DuBois and she talked about him very often. She said he told me that some bushyhead red girl had come over to interview him and she was not really prepared and the class knew it was me. So they all fell to the floor laughing in our house of Jordan 11s. That's all right, at least from this interview. I felt that dumb.

13:27 I got a lot out of it and I had something about that in the book in which it said even though even act I thought it hilarious. I could whooping Hollow with the best of them because I had met dr. William W E B DuBois and had been forever changed and humbled by the experience the meeting phone and informed my sense of personal responsibility, but tackling the black situation in America head on

14:14 So so these are some of the things that influence you and Atlanta to take your bath that you forget. And so that about your life. So as soon as I graduated from Spelman, I join the NAACP and so that I could make my contribution to eliminating inequality in America and I was fortunate enough to have in one of my classes. I started out teaching public school and politician public school. I met a student who's in my class is name was Benjamin Brown and he worked with me to farm a youth chapter of the NAACP in College Park, Georgia and later when I left Atlanta to begin teaching at a

15:14 College he went on to get involved in politics and became a state legislator and later. He became an assistant to president card and I felt I had I had had a great influence on him because he was the one that helped me get students register to vote because in Georgia, it was one of the first states to allow 18 year olds to vote and he had helped to get these kids from the high school who are 18 to register and vote. So he went on to become the an assistant to President Jimmy Carter.

16:01 At the White House and he was responsible for inviting me to the White House to meet with the President Carter and it was a meeting of outstanding black Educators in the country and here I am even coming up on the elevator with the president and in with Benjamin. I'm in a position that those presidents of colleges cuz I was not a bad status. I was teaching at a college but not the president of Vice President anything like that. So later I ran into I'm not going to call his name. He had been former president of one of the colleges in New Orleans and he said to me. How did you get to that conference? I was invited about the president.

17:01 But anyway, since we are talking about the Jimmy Carter, I would also like to say that I supported him when he ran for president and I was a president. I was also selected as a presidential elector from the state of Texas for him and that was really historical because as of today, I am the only black woman in Texas who has served as a democratic electoral for a president of this country and I thought fit that was kind of a historical that's more than just being a delegate, right? Oh, yeah, you're one of the people who actually elected the president because after the election

18:01 The electors will meet at the state capitol and they will then vote for who should be president and vice president. Now what it is almost in every case. Whoever one will get those votes from the electoral votes who meet in that Capital to relax the person very few will go against that commitment. So that's that's what happened. But also what happened if you are an electric car and you got to have over $200 from the various country states.

18:46 It's it's a ball and Washington. The red carpet is thrown out for you. There's a big reception for the electrons because these are the people who elect the president of the United States and special seating at the inauguration and my husband and I were fortunate to be sitting behind Senator Warner. I think that was his name from the Jenny yet. And he was married to this beautiful actress. I'm trying to attack and think of a name at this moment. And so I think now that if the Democrats would ever win again and that was when we did have a Democratic governor of Texas if they ever win again, I'm sure

19:46 More blacks will go all out to become an elector because it's it's a very prestigious supposition what that sounds like a lot of the started this through your educational Pursuits, and I know education has been a thread throughout your career professionally as well as you know, your struggle for social justice, but let's go back. I was Benjamin Mays, right? Yeah. He was a president and Atlanta University Center and you don't talk a little bit about your experience at Spelman. We both went to Spelman but the school was very different. I think when you were there versus when I was there and even now but when you went to Spelman, what were some of your favorite memories

20:33 When I went to Spelman.

20:38 I usually eliminate this part of my Spelman experience because I did so much for Spelman after I graduated. I was fortunate to get a four-year scholarship to Spelman from high school because I graduated and you know around the top when it was the top of my class mates, but it's

21:06 It's not really a good story to tell because I ran with the three other girls who were two years older than I and we were more interested in sports at Morehouse basketball games as what have you been getting a home workout. My brother School of Spelman and Morehouse was also weird that the king went to school so we know it's nothing wrong with being interested in Morehouse. Well, the thing about it, we should have been more interested in our class work because after the sophomore year the three of them were not able to come back to Spelman and I was just hanging on there, you know, probably lost my scholarship but it didn't matter because the tuition was only $50 a semester so you can make it anyway without the scholarship.

22:06 But it was after graduating from Spelman that I had a lot of experience in in supporting the school but one of the things while at Spelman College, I got a job as an assistant to the librarian at Atlanta University. I think his name was Lawrence Reddick and my job was to cut out all the articles about black soldiers that came in the black papers that he had collected over the years and he was going to write a story about the black soldiers in World War II including the Tuskegee Airmen. So my job was with to use a passes in the cut all these articles out and stack them up everyday. And of course, my shower was $15 a month, which was enough to pay my Davidson bill.

23:06 And wear some nice clothes. This is the school and but I read some very very interesting stories and I'm telling about some of those in the book. I read a lot about how the Jews at that time were were very involved in the Civil Rights struggle of black people. They were serving on the NAACP national board at cetera. And that is that led me to later when I got my master's degree to write about Israel because I've been so impressed with that with the work that they had done and even the when when I allowed the head of the Israeli office in New York to take a look at my face has he couldn't understand why a young black woman would be spending time writing about Israel's and that was

24:06 So many other civil rights something said she could have done but this was what led many to to do that. Also. I was reading the story about a Benjamin Davis who was a lawyer in Atlanta and who was defending a union organizer in those days. You just didn't go into Georgia as a union organizer the dog has anyone so he was treated so horribly and caught they would refer to him as that Niger lawyer, etc. Etc. And that's what made me think very hard about what I want even become a lawyer because I said if I was become a lawyer in Georgia, I would be crying all the time in the courtroom instead of trying to pursue whatever I was to do a rafting you have an attorney so that will other stories

25:06 I read and I'm not going to go into that old one story that I read and it helped me to understand later politics because following reconstruction. I was all blacks wear who are voting for Republicans because being thankful that Lincoln had freed them from slavery, but I read this story where President Roosevelt wanted to encourage blacks to join the Democratic party and he had held a meeting in Pennsylvania and invited all of the Publishers of the black papers to come to that meeting so that he could sell them the Democratic party and he had a lot of success because many blacks did turn to the Democratic party, but they also in the South turn to a segregated Democratic party, which had to be cleaned up over.

26:06 Years because at first fight blacks cannot even vote in the white Democratic primary, so I guess I could go on so do you have any other questions as well? I think one of the big things as how did you start the path toward becoming a judge the first municipal judge and Austin not only the first letter e

26:34 The first in fact, I was probably the first black to become a judge in a municipal court judge in Austin. That was a black lawyer. I think who was allowed to sit one day a few days as a judge and I can't remember his name but to be actually really appointed but more than that. I was the first actually appointed black female judge in the state of Texas. So I thought that was so that's where I've been hysterical. But how did I become a judge? I never thought about being a judge and you know, I had some problems about even being a lawyer but I had married a Texan and by the way, that's the interesting story.

27:28 Doing the recess in high school in Atlanta my friends and I would sit around and talk about our future and we all said we were going to marry rich man. That was it. We were not going to met her in the pool. So we should have to do just that and when I met this I was teaching at Prairie View and what I met this black doctor at prairie Prairie View I said, well this is it. So I married him and move to a long. Do you tell me what was his name doctor Oprah? Jaemor. He had his own Hospital clinic, you know where he could serve at least six he had six rooms for beds and he did a lot of delivery of babies and and when his other patients really needed more service than he could provide he wouldn't

28:28 Games for them to Good Shepherd Hospital in Longview, but at that time because of segregation or he couldn't even go see attend his patients in Longview at the Good Shepherd Hospital. He had to get one of his white friends to become the doctor of that patient. So that the patient could get good health care. I thought it was just so terribly wrong, you know, because I was just really into this movement at that time. So I thought it was just so wonderful of President Johnson and his Medicare legislation stipulated that those hospitals are not going to get any money from the government if they didn't desegregate their facilities and that's why I Lyndon Baines Johnson became my favorite President Obama was a good president and all of that but LBJ was my favorite.

29:28 So here I am in Longview fighting those same problems trying to get blacks to vote working with the NAACP and on and on and on and on.

29:42 I started thinking about law school again, but my husband I said what about me taking some night courses at Kilgore something in the law. He said I married a housewife. I didn't marry a lot. So I had to wait until he died and that's when I decided to take the money in the new white Cadillac and come down to the University of Texas loss.

30:07 And I was going to ask you how you got over your grief as a young Widow but sounds like law school probably kept you busy. I guess it was probably a year after his death that and I started thinking about going to law school and preparing to go law school and you're right. I began to think about all these other problems of being in law school at University of Texas because you know, what, I arrived at the University that was only one black in the whole school of about 1400 students and you considered a precursor, right? Are you part of the precursor? Yes. Yes, and after he left that left me there, you know as the only black in the law school a lot of experience in dealing with that. I won't go into all of that now.

31:01 Oh, is that anything else? Well after you finish law school then did you practice law for a while or did you have your eye on becoming a judge or did you know how I never? I really never thought about becoming a judge. I was teaching part-time at Huston-Tillotson University as a student.

31:27 Okay.

31:33 So what do we do now? This is a break.

31:37 10 more minutes

31:40 Well, I tell you what these last minutes I would like to tell how I met Thurgood Marshall.

31:49 As you know Thurgood Marshall was appointed to the Supreme Court by Lyndon Baines Johnson, which was another star for me to thank him for and of course before that. He was his secretary. I mean, he was the attorney solicitor for Lyndon Baines Johnson before it became on him on the bench. Well,

32:21 I wish I had thought about finding this part in the book where

32:29 As I when I taught in Atlanta, I didn't have a a social studies of certificate. I didn't have a teaching certificate. So I needed a teaching certificate and I would have to go back to school together on it turned out that what I want it to go to the University of Georgia, which was not allowing blacks to attend to get my certificate in education. So I apply to Columbia because I knew under Plessy versus Ferguson that if the state could not provide me with that kind of education then they had to make it possible for me. So I went to see the chancellor of the University of Georgia and I told him I wanted to to go there and I couldn't go there but I was admitted to Columbia. So he said we're back.

33:29 Wonderful. You can go to Columbia. I said, well we got something to talk about I said, I don't have the money to go to Colombia. I said it's $25 to go to University of Georgia 75 to go to Colombia history while I'll take care of that. I said, well I got something else I said if I come to Athens I can stay with a relative and I won't have to have a residence. So what am I going to do about New York? He said well, we will provide a stipend for you to go live in New York. I said, well Mary comes to Transportation I said, you know, I can drive 60 miles to the University of Georgia and look how far New York. He said he will provide for that. So I went on to Columbia completed the work and I wear when I got there. I told the registrar so you'll be getting a check from George.

34:29 You put me so I don't have to pay he said well, I tell you what, you will not get any of that check until you have completed your grades here. I said you mean to say I won't have my check. So if you said no until you've completed everything here, then they'll send the check and we will give you your party will take out part. So I decided I better go see Thurgood Marshall and try to get my check. So I dressed up went downtown got on the elevator. That was just tall man. And I said could you tell me where toget Marshal's office? Is he? So yes, I can I could show you this office. So he led me to his office and that's how I met him and we became good friends down through the years because I said, well, you know, what? Why can't I be the guinea pig for the University of Georgia? And he said well, I've already gotten someone we have already filed for Harsh.

35:29 To go to the University of Georgia and we've been waiting to see the outcome of that case. But of course horis Ward waited so long that he decided to go to another University get his law degree. So anyway, he said we talked a long time. We became very good friends and I he said I'm sorry, but I can't do anything about that check. Did she really did? So after that I went back to Atlanta working with the NAACP whenever he came to town, we would see each other and talk about things then of course, I'm going back before he became of Supreme Court Judge. I invited him to come to Austin to speak at Huston-Tillotson. So he wrote and told me he couldn't make it but he was coming to Austin and he hoped that we would get a chance and I have the personal letter that he wrote me that we would get.

36:29 Get a chance to have lunch which we did. So I think that was a great experience in my life and you've been recognized by the n-double-acp in a lot of all the organizations, but for you what are say, maybe your key accomplishments as you kind of look back over your career, what would you say two of the most important accomplishment to her? How would you like to be remembered? I wish I had had time to get that out before coming here because it's hard for me to think of of things that I have done. That would be the greatest accomplishments in my life. I do think being a presiding judge at the Austin Court was one of them because I was in a place to invite us to encourage other black women to come into the fold of the Court including Evelyn.

37:29 P which I brought in as an associate judge and Sandra Fitzpatrick as an associate judge so that they you know began their careers as judges and I think that was a great compliment, but I know that with many others, it's just that I can't think of them. Are there any words of wisdom that you'd like to share?

37:53 Well, I think what has helped me all these years is being very persistent and following what I feel that should be the right thing to do. I remember one person saying that I was a most persistent person that he had ever come in contact with like for example for two years. It took me to get the University of Texas law school to recognize the first black graduate Virgil seal, you know for being the first and the president at that time was President Powell's William Powell's he said Harry it when you first asked that Ding about making a day of celebration for him. He should have said yes because she will not going to stop until it was a cop so it was

38:53 Accomplishing now every two years. We recognize him as the first black to graduate from the law school, and I think that's a great example of how you have gotten things done over the years, and I do want to thank you for this conversation and thank you for being such a great mentor not just to me but to a lot of others, too. So thank you for that.

39:15 If you have any final words that you'd like to offer no accepted my book. The title of my book is taken from Alexander pose of poetry saying that act well your part there all the honor lies and that's it. I think the parm went that honor and shame from no condition rise act. Well your part there all the honor lies.