Rebekah Williams and Amanda Williams

00:03 My name is Amanda Williams. I'm 31 years old. It's March 3rd 2018, and we're in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and I am interviewing my mother.

00:15 My name is Rebecca Williams. I just turned 54 years old. Today's date is March 3rd 1918.

00:27 2018 and I'm in Oklahoma City Oklahoma, and I am a mother to my beautiful daughter interviewing me.

00:39 Okay, so tell me about where you grew up.

00:44 Well, I grew up in Chickasha Oklahoma and I was born in Denver and was there for about a year and a half maybe two years and we move to Oklahoma and I I grew up in a little house beside railroad track.

01:02 What brought your family Oklahoma, I was adopted when I was a year old and my mother and father that adopted me your grandparents got a divorce when I was two and your grandmother decided to move back home and her home has Chickasha and so we moved there.

01:24 Did you know the dad that adopted you?

01:28 I knew him some growing up, but he was in and out and I really never spent any time with him. I probably saw him less than 10 times in my life. When did Grandma marry the guy? That was my grandpa?

01:43 I'm not exactly sure when they got married, but they started dating and living together when I was five.

01:51 But they didn't get married until later. Did they probably around ten years later. Why was that? I'm not exactly sure.

02:02 Did I have anything to do with the fact that Grandpa was a pastor of a church? I don't know what their reasoning is worth for that. In fact, I didn't even know that that happened until after they divorced 35 years later that they wasn't married the whole time that I was being raised by that dead, but they told people they were married, right? Yes, they did. And in fact my whole family thought they were married until until your grandmother divorced your grandpa. What were your parents like when you were growing up?

02:37 That was a very difficult time in my life. My mom worked a lot away from home like every morning would get up and go to work and when I was in first grade, I had to walk three blocks to school and I had to get myself up and get my hair ready and go to school on my own and walk there and I remember when I was in third grade that I just got tired of walking to school. So I stopped in at play in the park a little while in

03:07 Then I would I would go on to school and I remember the third grade also started wearing makeup, cuz your grandmother worked at a restaurant and that waitresses there were very sweet and they brought me some some makeup and like any little girl would play with makeup in. So your grandma never knew that I start wearing it to school. And so I start wearing makeup to school in third grade. I started rolling my own hair in third grade.

03:35 What kind of job did Grandpa do growing up and he had he was a mechanic and he had odd jobs of like buying vehicles and overhauling them and redoing them and then selling them and so growing up I learned how to work on cars than like starting at the age of 5. I had to start like taking tires off a car's and rotating tires. And when you were five 5 and there's pictures of me when I was five. Also, I used at 5 and between 5 and 7. I had to put like supper on the table at night after school was grandpa really religious then.

04:19 We've always had a very strong faith in our family and your grandpa was very domineering and very incredibly harsh. But and even though that wasn't right within itself during the time that I was being raised and going to church and my home life was very difficult. But the only reprieve I ever got was through my faith in Jesus Christ and threw that it helped me to get through my childhood with Grandpa always a Tent Revival evangelist. Would that happen later in his life? From what I understand? He's always been a Tent Revival evangelist from for a very long time. Whenever your Aunt Mary and Aunt Carol, we're growing up. I don't think they had as many tent revivals as they did whenever

05:12 I became a part of their family. So like the 70s and 80s probably some in the 60s that primarily in the 70s and 80s. So you have a brother right? Yes. What was he like growing up? John was always very

05:33 Let me see. He was rambunctious and he didn't really care for Authority. So he was always kind of contentious with everything and

05:46 And in but my mom that was my mom that adopted me that was her birth child. So with my dad that adopted me and even if she never realized it, she always played some partiality towards my brother.

06:03 So when Grandpa would go see his friends who are also evangelist and he didn't want them to know he married somebody with kids. Did they leave you guys in the park all the time? There were many days that I remember especially being left in the Duncan Park when I was like between the ages of probably 5 to 8 years old for hours at a time with no money and

06:31 I really believe that ever since I was the age of seven. I've always trusted in the Lord and I remember standing at the stop sign by the Civil Park and pray that somebody would give us some money cuz I was so thirsty and I'm people just started giving me like a quarter and a dollar I Member One X coming to get us a dollar and that was a pretty big deal. My brother wouldn't ask for money, but we didn't have much money ever and growing up. Also we had a garden during the Spring in the summer and most of my memories starting at work was starting at the age of 5, and I remember that one year that my dad had put a little red wagon attached to my bicycle and my brother had a little trailer on the back of his bicycle and he had a lawn mower and my little red wagon had vegetables in it and we had to go up and down the neighborhood streets and sell vegetable.

07:31 Mow yards and 1 day coming home. My brother was trying to be like race me and we were coming across a four-lane highway and he just kept riding across the four-lane highway and I just followed him and I got hit by a car and almost killed. You got hit by a car with crap. You didn't know this. Yes. I got hit by a car and semi skilled. Did you are you in the hospital now, and I wouldn't take you out.

08:04 Your grandmother took me to the hospital and they said that I had a bruise all the way down. I got hit on my right side and I've had bruises all the way up. I thought I'd cracked a couple of ribs. How old were you seven?

08:18 Holy cow.

08:25 Who is an important part of your life when you were a kid?

08:29 I would say the very first important person in my life and though she was very harsh at times two would be my grandma rice. She my my grandmother rice and my grandpa rice they live next door to the little house when my mother brought moved back from Colorado and she raised me until I was five whenever your grandpa that you know, is your grandpa married my my mom and

09:00 She there again we'd go to church and different places and she didn't drive so we was had to take cabs and I think that's where I was something with parts Within Me of loving and caring and being compassionate because when someone would pass away I would go to the funeral home and visit and sign your name in the book and then get in the taxi and go to the people's house. And I remember that they would make pallets for me underneath the family table at night and I was sleeping under the table at night because there wasn't a whole lot of room in house has a long time ago. They had big rooms and everybody just slept wherever they could they didn't have like extra bedrooms and I always have to sleep under the family table and we would cook for them for like 3 days after someone who passed away and take care of them and

09:54 And then take the taxi and go back home. So I think Grandma rice was one of the first ones that was a real good big influence in my life about knowing how to care for somebody during a time of grief which sometimes is hard for people to know what to do. What were you like as a teenager?

10:14 I've always been very responsible and

10:19 When I was a teenager, I bought my first car at 14 and overhaul the engine in it and I did not mean well, the engine wasn't running properly and you had to take it all apart and you had to grind the valves and you had to put new rods in the vehicle. And sometimes you had to put a new Block in and and different things to try to get the engine working Ryder at the transmission needed to be repaired. Then I did that and I used to help your grandpa do that sell at 14. I bought my first car. I got my first outside of the family job. It was a job every day after school and 8th grade. I was 14.

11:04 Where do you work? I worked at a place called Papa's hamburger place in Chickasha for Juanita.

11:13 And I forgot her husband's name, but they were pains the last time or pains that she was a great first boss. She taught me a lot.

11:24 Anything cool happened to you there. Well, I guess a lot of cool things that I have a son named Gordon pain and he used to play for Waylon Jennings. And so from time to time the the touring bus with Waylon Jennings and all the band would come by and and I got to meet Waylon Jennings through that and and there's and their son Gordon.

11:51 Did you really Race 3 wheelers when you're in high school? Yes. I started going to re-find Yamaha. I can't even tell you exactly why one day. I stopped and ventured in and I've always had kind of an outgoing personality. And so they say do you want to test drive this this motorcycle? And I said, well, I'm kind of concerned about just being on two wheels, but I think I can handle three wheels just fine because on the farm we were on the farm. I was raised on a farm for part of my life and some of my friends had three wheelers and I like them. So I said but I think I can do it three wheeler and I started Racing 3 wheelers in town and there was a quarter mile strip on 3rd Street in Chickasha and the cops used to set at the end of 3rd street where the end of the quarter mile was and they used to clock me to see how fast I could go and and ride in that same area was a

12:51 Wrecker Service in one day the record it and see me and they pulled out and I had to bail off the the three wheeler and flip down. The the Ravine the cops came there all freaked out, but I was good. I never I never got hurt and then from that I started racing four wheelers with rice on being a sponsor and I did three wheel pulling like they have cracker tractor pulling that for a while head three wheel pulling with a weighted sleigh or sled on the back and I did that some

13:21 And I am models Yamaha racing gear. I know I saw that and I didn't even believe you.

13:31 How did you meet my dad?

13:34 Well, I was in music for a for a

13:42 Church camp meeting and I went down to do music and he was with the church that was visiting that was doing the teaching Services during the day.

13:55 Did you ever think that you would marry an Indian?

13:59 You know, I really never looked at the nationality side of it. I just looked at the goodness and the kindness and the man of God that he was.

14:11 What was he like when you met him very tender-hearted very kind very sincere and faith.

14:21 Why did you guys get married?

14:25 Well, I don't know how he felt. I know I can tell you how I felt that I knew that God had placed him in my life. And at that time I knew that that's who I was to marry and with all its intent at that time that we would, you know live together and sometime have family and then, you know, hopefully travel the world and tell people about Jesus. Where did you live whenever you got married?

14:57 Whenever we first got married, we lived in a little apartment when we first got married. We lived with it Indian family, Indian family in Mountain View, Oklahoma.

15:13 Were people racist they're very much so we can spot people and that was the first time that I realize that racism was real.

15:21 I thought racism was always somebody with a chip on their shoulder and which sometimes I really think it is, but however sometimes racism is really real.

15:30 So is anybody ever racist toward dad?

15:34 Yes, whenever after a. Of time we move to Chickasha back to Chickasha and he went in this grocery store because I was really sick and had gone in to get some groceries and whenever he went to pay for he went to write a check and they said we're going to have to call the bank to verify that you have a checking account because Indians don't have checking accounts, what year was on?

15:58 I was pregnant with Jeremiah. I think I was like 1988 88-86 somewhere in that area, right?

16:11 And when we lived in Mountain View, there was a little grocery store there and this is the very first time I knew anything about racism is that there was a little grocery store there and they would bag my groceries for me and they carried over please groceries out to their car. But one day they said we won't carry yours out because you're white married to an Indian and they had a little

16:37 Department store across the street also and at that time I always I sold a lot of my clothes and I wanted a new skirt. And so I went over to get some material and they wouldn't cut it for me because I was wanting married to an Indian. So where they native or where they whatever White.

16:57 But wasn't that a predominantly native community?

17:01 Yes, and I I really didn't stay around to watch to see how they treated people that were like natives married together or even if it was a white man married to Native. I never saw how that played out that I I couldn't believe that that took place. But I I was so Faith oriented until I said, well, you don't have to cut my material. I'll measure it out and cut it myself and I just, you know didn't realize at the time how harsh that was until later.

17:36 What was dad's family like when you marry them?

17:42 They were not always feel receptive to me being quiet, but I've always been very outgoing. So I just wanted to try to make everybody feel comfortable and I didn't always I didn't realize at the time that whether you're white or whatever nationality you are that women in general at times don't make eye contact with some of the Elder native men and I always wanted to shake your hand and get him a cup of coffee and I didn't realize it and sometimes that's offensive and there was once an elderly man and I kept trying to introduce myself to him and shake his hand and he wouldn't shake my hand and I went ahead and went got him a cup of coffee and later. I found out he was blind and so that made it a little bit more understanding why he wasn't so receptive and the and the car were the Kiowa tribe actually gave me a name and they honored mean they gave me a name in my name is bunkall mall and it meant woman of many words.

18:43 Which was an honor because they were, I was married to Cheyenne and yet they took me in the home and their home and and we lived actually about rainy Mountain was Grandpa Bill married to a Kiowa. Yes your Grandma Shirley.

19:03 Is that why they took you guys them?

19:07 Well, we never live with them. We lived with another, family the tying ties around rainy Mountain.

19:19 And is so ties are the ones that gave me my native my, name did you ever go to powwows or dancers?

19:28 Sometimes whenever your grandpa bill was playing and I and we would go and I would always just sit under the 10th for your Grandma. Shirley was making the fry bread. I never went out in the rain at once they did come and pull me to go to to dance in the arena which for a family there for something but even even then because I was why I felt uncomfortable with being there. I was the only person there and was something very funny is your your dad when we were Pastor in churches and I'd have any family member died at always call him and when they were dying, they they felt like that whatever God that your dad believed in and was following that it had radically changed his life and I believe that that God was real but they also bleed in the medicine man, and they believe that in their traditional of a Fanning and smoking or smudging and and weight.

20:28 The eagle feather fan over them before they pass so they always wanted your dad to come and pray in Jesus name over them. And then the the priest would come in and pray and and do the sage smoking or the cedar smoking in and wave the fan over them and I didn't know what I think it's called a Lulu. I didn't know what that was. I didn't understand anything and we were in his home and praying and is really saw him in the person was passing but was really passing and all of a sudden this lady just did the very loud native Morning Call kind of Lulu thing is what they're called. I thought I was going to get kidnapped and burned at the stake or something cuz I'd only heard that like in an Indian movie when all the Indians come in and kidnap the white people and I mean a little bit scary whenever that happens just a ceremony and you're not expecting it. So it's understandable.

21:28 What did Grandpa bill was did he?

21:35 He said whenever he was doing it working at a powwow or playing what does that mean? And he was a head collar and a head collar is somebody that knows a lot of the traditional lady songs and they're at the drum the traditional drive and he was also very revered because he was a drum maker and he was a drum he was enough entic original traditional drum maker and a he was known to tribes all around the United States from Canada to Florida Montana everywhere and he would make a horse hide drums for different tribes in so if he was the head collar then sometimes we would go to the pow. Wow, but you guys didn't go to the pow wows a lot because why

22:22 Your dad knew about the tradition of the natives and it's not the fact that he was ashamed of being native. But he also felt like that some of their tradition was more in a witchcraft oriented manner instead of just a traditional side and he was Christian. He had a grandmother. Her name is Grandma Kate and Grandma Kate lived on South Canadian river Grandma Cato say Grandma Kate Osage lived on the south Canadian river in a teepee and a circuit Rider Methodist circuit Rider come through Monday and told the the the campers that United's there that were can't about Jesus Christ. They called in the white man's God white men's Jesus and a few weeks after the circuit Rider come through and her dad Grandma Kate Osage. Dad was the chief of the tribe at the timer that group of end.

23:22 It was there and I'm she went to sleep one night and she said the apartments Jesus come to her and said that she was called to lead her people to Jesus and from that point on she fought started following more of a Christian route and not so much of a traditional route. And she was one of the first Native Americans ever to be recognized by the University of Oklahoma and a professor somebody through that helped her and she was able to translate the whole new testament into Cheyenne language for her people.

24:07 So that's why dad didn't go to powwows because he thought it was too spiritual and there could be like Bad Medicine involved.

24:15 And there is bad medicine at times it is involved and he wanted to follow after the his grandma Kate and he had seen different things that happened. I'm through some of the Native belief, but then he experienced the side of Christianity and his grandma Kate was very pleased with that. When I first met her husband had just passed away and the ladies have a tradition in morning that they cut their hair because their hair is a part of their pride and who they are and they braid it and they put, you know ordained I mean ornaments and different things in it and she had cut her hair and it was really short and at that time my hair was long and so when I leaned over to meet Grandma Kate I said Grandma Kate, my name is Rebecca married to Billie Jean jr. Williams are Billie Jean Junior and she said they called him bugs and egos. Are you married to bugs? And I said, yes, and she play with my hair and she

25:15 You have beautiful hair so.

25:18 She was a really respected woman and it was so funny because she didn't want people to take advantage of her and you know some now at at your age that sometimes there's snakes that live not necessarily always on reservations, but just in a projects and stuff in there some that are wise with your money and make good choices and Grandma Kate was but if she had a phone that was working in with me growing up and you called out of town. It was called a long distance call and then you had to pay for that call. Will everybody would come to Grandma Kate's house to use her phone because she always had a phone because she always paid her bill what she got tired of people using her phone cuz one day her bill was over $500 because everybody kept using it so she had to pay phone put in her house. Oh my gosh. I remember that. She had a payphone putting her house a real life pink on putting her house. And so if anybody came to use the phone they had to have changed to put in the face on the crazy.

26:17 Okay, so my dad.

26:26 When when did you guys wind up in Lawton, Oklahoma, that's what we we we got married there. We lived in in Mountain View, but we got married there. There was a your dad started going to a church there.

26:42 And we got married there.

26:46 So

26:48 Was that always really quiet and you just talked all the time or is that just a nosy kid?

26:54 You're so cute. Well, your dad was your dad would talk if you talk to him and there were certain things that he would like to talk about. And of course when your dad and I were first married, he was very well-versed in the Bible and we talked a lot about the Bible and we had Pastor people over all the time and we went and evangelized in a lot of places and he talked a lot.

27:20 I guess that's true.

27:25 Have you had any experiences are moments in your life that you might consider sacred?

27:34 Yes, you want to tell me about it. It's sacred in which manner do you mean like when I saw my first miracle or when God spoke to me sacred in like being with somebody when I pass or

27:49 How many people have you been with when they died quite a few about something like that? I'm a chaplain. So that happens when I get called to sit with people.

28:04 So add the first time that I remember every really Heaven knowing that Jesus is like this is a real thing about the Bible and different things about God was I was five years old and I was at Grandma rice is laying on the couch trying to sleep and I remember I'm in a dream that

28:23 Jesus coming Stood Beside Me And He pointed for me to follow him and someone I followed him and I went out the the front door which face the East I went out the East door and he walked around and he showed me up in the heavens this great group of angels and he wanted me to follow him. And I remember I took his hand and I remember that I had such peace and I knew that God would I knew that he would protect me and help me and I can explain it because at that time I can't say I ever prayed and said Jesus come in my heart because I was only five but during that time is the time that your grandmother met.

29:00 Grandma grandpa Marvin that you knew and your grandma rice had always praised me and your grandpa wasn't too fond of me spending a lot of time there. So he started pulling me away from my grandmother and that was really hard. So I don't I really think that in some aspects. Jesus was saying that you know, this is a very difficult time for you, but I'm going to always be here with you and Grandpa always abusive in this day and time you would consider that extremely abusive in and he was very harsh and it really bothered your Aunt Mary and Uncle and your Aunt Carol, which is my step sisters. Those were hurt. My grandpa loves kids from his first marriage.

29:49 So that was the first sacred time your first memory of a sacred thing that I said. Yes, and then when I was 7 years old, I was at Grandma Bryce's house too. And I had another vision from the Lord and my child. I'm only 7 years old.

30:05 And so it was a it was a vision of something that take place in the end time where there was a Hailstone that fell and it was huge cuz it fell on top of a VW and I was in the you don't have an extreme and it smashed to Smithereens and I didn't realize until later when I was older and reading the book of Revelations where it says in the end time that a hellstone off all the size of a talent and that meant it was a it weighed 100 lb and so I really had a vision of the end time and I was 7

30:37 And

30:39 Another sacred time

30:44 I mean if you ask me for a sacred time of day, like the first time I've ever had a really good buttermilk biscuit.

30:51 You're like giving me stories of the end of the world.

31:01 So

31:06 How do you feel about how your life is going is a different than you thought it would be you ever find your biological family. I did. Yeah, I found my birth family. I got to meet my birth brother and sister and my extended cousins in Nebraska. I'd always envisioned to getting to meet my mom and tell her thank you for birthing me and not aborting me and but I never imagined that the only part of her I would ever know would be a tombstone and that was really hard because I always just wanted to hug her and but I was very thankful that I got to spend time with my brother and my sister to my brother was a career military Navy man, and we got to be pretty close in 19.

31:58 2004 he actually got colon cancer and passed away in April 2004 and that was really sad.

32:06 But I am very close.

32:10 I'm very close to my cousin's in Nebraska and we talk often and go to visit them from time to time as well.

32:21 Okay, so

32:24 How is your life different than you thought it would be?

32:29 Well, I never imagined that I would be divorced and that was really difficult. But once again my faith help me to get through and still helps me to get through everything that I face.

32:53 I always knew that God would call me to do things beyond that which I would ever imagine and being able to travel to different countries and help people in.

33:06 Be able to have that experience not only for myself but to be able to share the love of Jesus Christ without concern of a language barrier has been totally amazing. I've been to 10 different countries some of which he's gotten to travel with me through Europe and that was a blessing and you saw yourself how God attracts like elderly people to me and I try to help everybody even though I may not know their language.

33:33 Even though you have a normal job now, would you say that you use it to help people and reached people whenever you wouldn't have to normally.

33:43 With my job as an ombudsman supervisor where I mediate on behalf of residents in long-term care residential facilities. It does give me a platform of domestic missions. I believe in order to speak for those people that can't speak for themselves and to stand up for people that for the most part would be forgotten and not have a voice of power.

34:08 So why do you think you are the way that you are I think God is made me to be the way that I am and also making good choices and choosing to I have people around me that if I'm having a difficult time to seek out people that will give me good advice and have my best interest and your interest in your brother Jeremiah's interest in involved. Also, who's your favorite kid?

34:36 I love you both equally.

34:45 Who would you say has been the biggest influence in your life now?

34:52 I really hate to name one person. I would say the biggest influence in my life would be a multitude of those people that chose to show me the faith of Jesus Christ. Do you feel guilty? Not saying both Aunt Mary and Aunt Carol?

35:07 Aunt Mary and Aunt Carol both have I would say in some aspects Aunt Mary played a deeper role in the fact that she lived closer around us for a. Of time and I was so excited always deprived as a child growing up. I'll never forget the first time she checked me out of school to go on just adventure and I got to go to the state fair. I remember the first hot corn dog. I got to have at the state fair and it was a big deal. How old were you I was in 5th grade.

35:48 Do you have anything you want to say? I'm very grateful the fact that I've always had a very optimistic attitude. It has been a an incredible treasure me because in whatever situation I've been in somehow the lord always helps me to see an insight.

36:10 Away or out or a different way of looking at what could be somewhat detrimental and the funny thing is when I was in South Korea and I was with Thai people on in South Korea and nobody spoke English and I never knew where we going. I never knew what we were going to do the next day. I just got on the bus and went forever and it was as just a surprise every day and I did the best that I could to get through that because it was really really hard and but I really had a great time and when the tour was over at one of the students the thai student send a message to my American liaison instead Rebecca is the best person we've ever had trouble with that. She's most optimistic. She always had the best attitude and absolutely knew know where we were going or nothing about anything. And so that really showed me the resiliency that God will help you in every situation and I've helped with car wrecks. I've helped with the bomb them.

37:10 Are building I've done all sorts of stuff and God has always been very resilient in my life. Do you have any hopes of the future?

37:19 I have incredible hope in the future because I'm as long as the Lord gives me breath to breathe. One thing. I've always taught you and Jeremiah is two things. The first thing is is that the greatest thing in life you can learn is to know the voice of God and the second thing is you never lead that you always leave things better. You leave things better than the way you found them.

37:42 Do you think the world's better because you're alive?

37:46 I hope that the part of the world that I'd the part of the world. I live in walk-in or that I touch I hope is a better place I strive for that.

37:57 I think that it is.

38:00 I would say so.

38:04 I remember when I was being interviewed after the May 20th tornado and I had no idea that this interview is going to go nationally and and something that Lance. Oh, yeah Lance West calls you a one-woman mission of Hope and you didn't even know he was watching you had no earthly idea that that watch me the whole day and that was a point in my life that

38:31 That's just who I am and to know that the people saw that and I had no idea they had been watching me and that you and Jeremiah chosen to put that on my Tombstone. So whether I'm alive or even in my dad to help people realize that they are hope to the world that you're a one-woman.

38:57 I would say my mom has always taught me what kind of example have I set for you?

39:04 My mom is always taught me that like she said always leave a place better than you found it. So even a little ways and also she's been a really good example of Faith because even though my grandfather and grandmother were really not nicer when she was a kid. My grandpa has Alzheimer's for the last part of his life and she was the first person to step up and volunteer to take care of him and she was always really gentle and patient and kind with him.

39:42 So she showed me a lot about showing Grace toward people and her faith is crazy because if I had been through half of what she's been through I would not even I mean I have a hard time like waiting for brunch reservations and I don't really have any big struggles in life and she's so optimistic and sometimes people will tell me that I'm good or that I'm nice or that I'm thoughtful and I'm like

40:16 Listen, I might be doing something nice for you right now, but I'm complaining internally and I know my mom really well.

40:25 And she never complains. She does everything was like grateful and happy heart and if I have to do something I do it kind of begrudgingly and I might be smiling, but I'm resentful in the inside.

40:40 So I think that that's good. I don't know.

40:44 It's okay.

40:46 I don't always cry but sometimes Pleasant to cry at times.

40:53 That's all.