Yazmin Contreras and Denise Macias

[00:05] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yazmin Perez Contreras, age 31. March 4, 2019, Birmingham, Alabama. And Denise is my friend.

[00:19] DENISE MACIAS: Denise Macias, age 30. Today's date, March 4, 2019. Location, Birmingham, Alabama. And Yazmin is my friend.

[00:32] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Good morning, Denise.

[00:33] DENISE MACIAS: Good morning, Yazmin

[00:37] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: So we are both Latina women in the South. Do you remember the first time that we met each other?

[00:45] DENISE MACIAS: Yes. It was at a ACIJ retreat in Dolphin Island.

[00:52] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[00:53] DENISE MACIAS: I don't remember the year, though.

[00:55] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: I don't. I want to say it was at least five years ago. I know it was after. A little after HB56, because we had both been going to different immigrant rights movements, protests and meetings and really active in the community. And I think that we had both been involved for a while. And then I think it wasn't until after a year of all that work that we had the retreat for the Alabama Coalition for Immigrant justice that we met up.

[01:29] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[01:30] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And I think we didn't, like, click right away. No. Which is really funny. And you would think that we would gravitate towards each other, but we didn't. No.

[01:42] DENISE MACIAS: It took us, like, how many months, maybe, like, two months to get, like, more talking to each other, like, more.

[01:54] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: I don't know why it was so difficult for us to click. And now it's really funny because we're up and down and all over the place with each other. But I think it's really funny how you can be going to different events and participating in the same group with the same people and doing the same work, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna click on all levels with everybody and, like, be friends afterwards.

[02:22] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[02:23] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Which is interesting.

[02:25] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[02:25] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: But I'm glad that, like, you know, we're friends.

[02:28] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. I'm happy.

[02:31] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And it's crazy how it took HV56.

[02:34] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[02:35] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: To bring us together.

[02:37] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. But.

[02:39] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Because I think if not, we would probably wouldn't have ever met.

[02:42] DENISE MACIAS: No. Because we. I used to live, like, all the way to the north, and you used to live.

[02:47] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Which is. Where did you. What's the name?

[02:50] DENISE MACIAS: Aniana. On the way north.

[02:52] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. And I used to live in Clanton.

[02:55] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. So it's like opposite sides, which is great.

[02:58] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: I think that's what's so interesting about age 56. It's like, a lot of Latino people are in Alabama, but we're so spread out, like, and a lot of the areas are so rural that it's hard to meet up with other Latino people. And I think that it took that movement for us to, like, be in one place at one time. And be forced to say, hi, how are you? Yeah, love me like me.

[03:29] DENISE MACIAS: But I'm glad we met. I'm glad we're friends and now we're together.

[03:34] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: I know. It's exciting. So I guess I have a question for you. How do you feel as a Latina woman growing up in the South? Because I know, you know, we're both Latina women and we're both in the south, but we both have different stories. Like, I grew up here. But you moved here from California.

[04:00] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. I think it's like growing up in California until I was 12 when I came here. It's way different here. It's like, when I moved here, it was like, I went to school, but there was, like, maybe four Latinos in the whole school. So it was, like, a big change for me, like, coming from California with, like, almost the whole school was Latinos, and then coming here to the south where it's, like, almost no Latinos. Well, when I got here, you know, but it was. It was a big change for me.

[04:33] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: It was culture shock.

[04:34] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. And now it's like, I've been here for, like, almost 18 years, maybe, and it's. It's. It's still hard, but, I mean, I don't know.

[04:49] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. And I think that's interesting because I had the opposite experience. Like, I was born in Washington state, but my parents moved to Alabama when I was really young. And for me, this is all I know. Like, I was the only Latina woman in school. I was the only Latina woman that I would see at a grocery store or walking down the street and almost always heard people speaking English. And it was just a very different experience for me. And so now, like, for example, when I go to la, I'm just, like, so excited to see so many people of color and different languages all over the place and food, which is something that I get really excited about, because here it's really hard to get good, authentic Mexican food.

[05:37] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[05:39] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: So now how do you feel that you've been here a few years?

[05:44] DENISE MACIAS: I feel better because, I guess. Well, thanks to HP56, I got to know more Latinos in the state. But I think it's still difficult living here, especially with the new president, with the new, like, the laws and everything else. I just feel like it's harder. It's harder for us to live here because, like, I had. When I was in high school, I had an experience of racism, and now, like. Like having HP56 and then, like, the racism all over again, and then that stopped, like, not Completely. But, like, you know, mainly. But now, like, getting this president like, like all over, like the whole story all over again.

[06:31] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[06:32] DENISE MACIAS: And it's just like, I feel it's.

[06:33] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Harder, but like, yeah, it just reignited everything and there was a surge of, of what you were feeling before. It's happening again. I completely understand because when I was little, I remember, like, you know, going to school and like a little girl, I think I was at the. It was preschool, So I was 4, and a little girl called me the N word. And like, because she didn't know, you know, any other word, like, she didn't know that I was Mexican and that, like, obviously she had heard that word before. And it's really disrespectful and awful. And I, like, felt horrible hearing someone say that to me. But it just brought it all back into perspective of, at the end of the day, like, yes, we live here and we're part of the community, but we're still not accepted completely and we still don't truly belong. And I think that it was apparent then. And then when HB56 happened, it was. It got worse.

[07:39] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[07:41] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And it kind of like woke people up. Like, oh, yeah, it, you know, we got comfortable for a while and then it woke people up of, oh, no, the racism still exists and it's still really hard for Latinos in the South. Not just Latinos, but people of color all around. And so now with Trump, I think we're feeling the same thing.

[07:59] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[08:00] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: But on the crazy side, I think that it's interesting to see how Alabama went through all of that with HP56, and now you're seeing the rest of the country go through that. Because we've been through, you know, several different Donald Trumps.

[08:20] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah, yeah.

[08:23] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Quotation marks.

[08:24] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah, yeah.

[08:26] SPEAKER C: Can you guys elaborate a little bit on how the difficulty it's been being Latina or like the HB law that was passed. Like, is there a specific example that you could give me of a family, of a friend that's been affected or how it's affected the community, if you don't mind.

[08:42] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah, I know. So both of my parents have a Mexican store in Clinton, Alabama, which you visited before, but during age 56, which. Which is, I want to say it was around 2011 when that was going on. Am I correct?

[08:59] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[09:00] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Okay. I remember when it was first being introduced. And HB56 is modeled off of SB 1070 in Arizona, which we all know is one of the infamous anti immigrant laws around the country. And I remember when they were first talking about it in Alabama, people were already panicking. And then once it entered into law, the whole community I think just went nuts. Like I remember people going to my parents store and saying, I need to sell my house, I need to sell my car. What can you give me for this jewelry? We need to move now. And then like people were, I remember like sometimes people would meet up at the store and it'd be like a crowd of four and they would all be talking about the law and what they were doing to get out of the state. And then they were having conversations about basically like caravanning out of the state into another state. So they were linking up to see who was going to what state.

[10:01] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[10:02] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: So they could like ride along, basically. Safety in numbers. But I think for some people that backfired because once HP56 happened, the police were more on alert.

[10:15] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[10:16] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And were looking for people like that.

[10:18] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[10:19] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And with a lot of like luggage or items on their cars and just randomly stopping people and asking them for their documents. Yeah, I know. Like I at least had two or three people that we personally know that once they were traveling out of the state, got stopped, got a traffic ticket for no license because obviously they're undocumented. They can't get a driver's license.

[10:41] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[10:41] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And ended up in like jail or somehow in the court system and eventually getting deported.

[10:48] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[10:49] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Did you have those experiences or know people that that happened to?

[10:53] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. For me it was, I guess it was harder because me being undocumented, but now having daca, it was like I, if I remember correctly, that time I already had my work permit. So it was like people would ask me like, you have your work permit, you have your license, can you go and buy groceries for me? Or they wouldn't even let their kids go to school because they were so scared that when they, when the kids were in school, like the parents will be taken away from them and they will not see each other again. My, my brother and my sister, they're, they're U.S. citizens. So they like the, our, our family that is undocumented asked them like, can you go children from school, can you buy like groceries for us? And, and it was like we had to do so many things for them. Well, because they were US citizens, but because I had that guy, it was like, like, can you go and check? Sometimes people that have doc that had documents, they would tell other people, like immigration is at Walmart. So people would be afraid and they wouldn't even like, wouldn't get out of their house for any Reason. And they were really scared. Like, it was. It was scary moments. People, like you said, people were leaving. And I know personally, people that left the state because of HB56, and it was hard times.

[12:23] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. I think it was like a moment of panic for everybody. And there was just chaos at the very beginning, and people were all kind of just looking out for their immediate families.

[12:34] DENISE MACIAS: Yes.

[12:34] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And I think one thing that's really interesting about that law is that, you know, when you mentioned people asking you to go to check and see if immigration was at a certain store or turn on, like, help people out, I think one part of that law was that you had to show documents when you had your water turned on or if you wanted water or electricity, those type of services. And like you said earlier, you have daca, you come from a mixed status family. And my immediate family is all US Citizens, but my extended family is mixed status as well. And what I really like, something that's crazy that happened out of all that panic and chaos is that everybody kind of just banded together with and formed a network. And so we all kind of knew that, okay, I have privilege. I'm a US Citizen, so I can go ask. Or so and so said that immigration is at Walmart. Whatever. Yeah, whatever store. And I know that I would run and go and see if it was true, and then like, call people and say, no, it's not true, or, yes, it is true. Which I know, being that my parents had the store, they would always get calls from people like, hey, Dona Jema, which is my mom's name. Immigration is at Walmart. Can you go and check? And we would be like, Yazmin She would be calling me, Yazmin can you go check? Okay, I'm driving there now. No, they're not there. Call so and so back and tell them that they're not there.

[14:12] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. And I think, like, even after HB56 was gone, like, we struggled because, like, in places like you said, like, where you needed to have your social, or, like, the light bill, like, someone had to have a social, it is still, like, HP56 was gone, but this was still happening. Like, those places were still asking people for, like, legal documents.

[14:39] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Oh, yeah.

[14:39] DENISE MACIAS: So we still struggled. And I think me being an organizer, even last year, I had to go to a place where people still told me, like, oh, like, we can't get this under my name because they're still asking for a legal Alabama id or, you know, so I still had to go to those places last year to make sure they weren't asking for that. And I did. I went. And in their policy, they still had, if you want a new contract, you still have to have a valid id. So that was like. We had to go through the process of asking them, are you still asking for this? And at the end of the day, they said, no, we're not. We're not asking for that.

[15:25] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah, Yeah, I remember that a lot. And I think there was a lot of misinformation and abuse of power.

[15:32] DENISE MACIAS: Yes.

[15:33] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah, yeah. I know that some people only needed to do this part of the law, and then they went above and beyond. And that's when you know, that's the key to when you know, okay, this is definitely racism.

[15:47] DENISE MACIAS: Yes.

[15:47] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: This is prejudice. This is discrimination. Yeah. And I know that. I have felt it plenty of Times. I'm a U.S. citizen. I know I carry that privilege and have exposed myself to difficult situations. But because I am brown and have dark eyes and dark hair, curly, dark, beautiful hair, I'm still discriminated against just like any other person. And I'm still put in that same category as other people, undocumented Latino people. And that's why the beautiful thing about HB56 is that it didn't matter if you were a US citizen.

[16:30] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[16:30] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Legal, permanent resident, undocumented, or documented. We, like, all just banded together and we're like, on the same front at that time, which was awesome.

[16:40] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[16:42] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And exciting to see.

[16:43] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[16:48] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: So I mentioned a little bit about privilege, and I know that, you know, you are documented. And for example, I'm a first generation Mexican American and we still have connections to Mexico. And I know that I've had a lot of privilege being able to go back to Mexico, come back to the US and be able to still have that connection with the motherland and my family and get to spend Christmas with my grandparents. I'm still able to have that connection. But for you, how has that been? And let's talk about that. Oh, I'm so making you tear up.

[17:36] DENISE MACIAS: You know, it's a hard. It's a hard situation for me right now. And I always cry and I hate it. Being in a mixed status family. It's really hard. Like, you know, my mom tried to fix her documents. It's actually gonna be three years Thursday, it's gonna be three years that she left. She tried to fix her papers and things happen, and. And now she's stuck there. And it's been almost three years. And it's. It's hard because two or three of my siblings can go and they've traveled back and forth. But my sister and I, we're Daca Mentezo. We can't go see her.

[18:43] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[18:43] DENISE MACIAS: So it's. It's harder every day because I cry and it is. It's just hard. Like, I still have family over there. I have her now over there, and it's just harder. Not able to see, like, seen her.

[19:02] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[19:03] DENISE MACIAS: My younger sister, she's gonna turn 18 Friday, so it's like, they're not gonna be together.

[19:12] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[19:13] DENISE MACIAS: So it's just hard. Like, sometimes it's good. It gets. It gets hard to the point where it's like, I wanna leave everything and go back.

[19:27] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[19:28] DENISE MACIAS: But at the same time, it's like, this is the only place I've known. So it's like I just can't get my things and go.

[19:36] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah.

[19:36] DENISE MACIAS: Like, I've been here since I was, like, one and a half. So it's like.

[19:40] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: You have roots here.

[19:41] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. Like, I don't know, Mexico. Like, I don't. So it's like, just the only reason that I want to go, because she's there. But at the same time, it's like, I have faith that she's going to be able to come back. But every day it does get harder, her being there.

[19:58] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. Because essentially your mom was the provider for the family, and then she goes to Mexico, thinks she's going to be able to come back, can't come back. And then that just turns your family upside down. Like, now you are the provider. Now you have to be there for your siblings, and on top of that, do all the work that you're already doing.

[20:21] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. So I think it's just hard, like, every day being in a mixed status family. It's so hard.

[20:28] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, like. And I think that that's something that I've been meaning to explore and, like, have those conversations with my friends more. Because, you know, I've always known that, like, undocumented people obviously can't go back and see their family and, like, and still have that connection with their. With their parents or grandparents or aunts, uncles, siblings. It's difficult. Right. Like, I know my aunt, her son, she was here working and her sons were in Mexico, and they grew up without a mother. And, like, you know, I've seen those stories, but I, like, don't have that experience. And I've been meaning to, like, talk to more of my friends about that and just see how they feel and check in, because, you know, we have that privilege. But you. You can't do that. And I can't imagine how difficult it is for.

[21:20] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah, it's. It's. It's really difficult. And, like, I never thought, like, my family. This was going to be my family situation, like you said, like, we've seen it before, but it's like, once you go through it, it's like, it's worse, that feeling. Everything is just worse. So it's just hard. And now I can understand everybody else that's been through that. It's just a hard situation that we didn't ask for this. And she was a single mother. She came here for a better life, and now it's like, she has to be over there just because she was here undocumented.

[22:08] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. And it's really difficult, I imagine, for your siblings, too, because they're all US Citizens and they can go back and visit their mom, but they can't stay there forever. They also have to come back and finish their school or whatever other responsibilities they've got going on. Your mom also probably can't. You know, she's probably working. She probably can't sit there and take care of everybody. Like, now. You have to be responsible on that part.

[22:36] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. And it's harder because right now, you know, like, with everything that's been going on, like, leaving the U.S. like, they put up a. How do you call that? A, like, travel adverse adversary advisory. Yeah. Because of where Guanajuato is, like, really bad, you know, like, they're killing people, like, where she lives. Like, they're killing people, like, 10 minutes from where she lives. And it's like, all that is getting closer to her. So, like, our fear that something might happen to her, like, is just hard. So it's. It's. It's even harder every day to be like, are you okay? Like, don't. Don't be out on the street after, like, 10. And it's like, it's a very, very difficult situation.

[23:27] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. Because she's always on alert.

[23:29] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. Yeah.

[23:30] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Even though you are supposed to have a life, you can't have a life because you're always worried that something will happen.

[23:36] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[23:37] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. That's. My grandparents are in Veracruz, Mexico, and Veracruz, I know, is one of the states that also just had a surge of violence. And the governor there was also corrupt and was involved in the drug trade business in some way. And it's difficult for them, too, and they're older and, like, in a smaller community. I can't imagine what it's like in Guanajuato. Does your mom live in a big city?

[24:05] DENISE MACIAS: No, it's like a Small community. That's why it's like, oh, my God. Like this. This was happening in the big city. Now it's like going into the little communities and it's like. It is just scary.

[24:17] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. Everyone's in fear.

[24:19] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. Every day at all times. And for us, it's worse because we see it on the news, but imagine her living that every day. It's just. It's bad.

[24:33] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine. I am. Recently, one of my uncles went through something like that. He In Veracruz. He was kidnapped and. Yeah. And we had to get the Mexican military involved. And it was. It's been difficult and. But I know that at the end of the day, I'm here, I'm in the U.S. yeah. Alabama. And I'm safe.

[24:58] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[24:59] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And so I don't have to worry about anything. But I'm constantly worried about how are they doing and what's going on with them, because you just don't know.

[25:09] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[25:10] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And it was just like a normal, regular day, and then bam.

[25:13] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[25:13] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: It happened. So I. Yeah. I can't imagine what your mom is going through. Living it every single day.

[25:20] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[25:22] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yep.

[25:23] SPEAKER C: I'm curious to know a little bit about your work with Hiccup or like your community or how you're involved or like the youth in hiccup.

[25:33] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Okay.

[25:33] SPEAKER C: First generation DACA recipients.

[25:38] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Okay. So we, you know, we've both been organizing for a really long time. I worked for the Alabama Coalition for Immigrant justice when I first started organizing and then doing voter registration type of work years after HB56 happened. During HP56, I think we were both just volunteers.

[25:59] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[26:00] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: For a really long time. And then we transitioned over to being employees of different nonprofit organizations. But from acij I went. I saw that Adelante, which is another immigrant rights organization here in Hoover, Alabama. We're doing awesome work with mostly undocumented Latino workers, helping them get their wages back. Because we know that a lot of wage theft happens here in Alabama. My parents were definitely affected by that several times when they were both doing migrant farm worker type of work throughout the U.S. can you speak a little bit on that?

[26:41] SPEAKER C: Like, for someone that doesn't know about that, about someone that wouldn't get their wages paid.

[26:46] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah. I know personally, for example, my parents, they would go and they were both migrant farm workers, worked in different. Picking different types of crops, harvesting different types of crops. And when they were working in the peach business, there were several times when they would go to work. And then all of a sudden the person that they were working for would tell them, oh, well, we're not paying you. And it was really difficult because, you know, we were living paycheck to paycheck and some people were making $4 an hour. Yeah. And can you imagine $4 an hour and then someone telling you, oh, we're not going to pay you. Yeah. And that's what happens to a lot of people, is they go to work and then they do the job, and then they come back and they tell them on. On payday, we're not going to pay you. And I think that with everything going on with HB56, and then after HB56, right now with the administration that we have, there's been a surge of wage theft, and it's manifested in different ways. For example, there's that one where people just will not pay at all. And then there's other situations in which they will not pay. And then you. The worker goes to continue to fight for their wages and claims their wages, and then the employer will tell them, you know what? We're not going to pay you. And then on top of that, we're going to call immigration on you because we know that you're undocumented. And that has just been a new level of harassment and that I've seen people experience. And it's been difficult because, you know, that's. That's not allowed. People shouldn't be able to say, I'm going to call immigration on you because you went and worked. You've already earned that pay. Just pay the pay.

[28:36] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[28:39] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: I think that that's been difficult to see. And I know that that happened to several different people once the new administration happened. It, like, just gave people the okay to say, oh, well, you know what? I'm going to get this worker to do this job for free and then call immigration on them and then not worry about it at all. So there's been no regard for human rights or workers rights on behalf of a lot of people. And it's been difficult to see that because even though we're a nonprofit and we're going after these cases, it got really difficult to fight them because we were trying to do it on a, like, organizing level, grassroots level, you know, going to protest, having meetings with different employers and advocating on behalf of different workers. And that got really difficult because we knew that these people weren't going to budge and that they, the employers, knew that they had the administration behind them. That's also a racist.

[29:40] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[29:41] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And has no regard for human rights.

[29:44] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah.

[29:45] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And do you want to talk about the work that you've been doing?

[29:48] DENISE MACIAS: Well, I work at hika, the Hispanic interest Coalition of Alabama. They're a community organizer, mostly in Blounton County. So where I used to live, and I have a women's group up there. So we just basically do crafts every Wednesday or whenever we can on that week. And then we teach them how to be more empowerful, to be more. So they can go out in the community. Some of the women know, like, how to do crafts. So we teach them how to. So they can be at a. Let's say at a festival. And so they can have their own table and they can be their own leaders and be there by themselves without having someone there to like. Someone like me or someone from HIKA to be there, like, for them to be their own leaders in the community. And we also teach them, we have this leaders group where it's a six week program that we empower them basically about domestic violence. So we do a lot of domestic violence. Charlas, basically.

[31:11] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Charlas.

[31:12] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. Yeah.

[31:15] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Well, Denise, I missed you.

[31:16] DENISE MACIAS: I missed you.

[31:16] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: It's been a while since we had a deep conversation.

[31:19] DENISE MACIAS: I know.

[31:19] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: And I'm so glad that like two chingona Latina women are still on this.

[31:24] DENISE MACIAS: Level doing this work and that we still friends.

[31:26] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Yeah, we've been around for a while.

[31:28] DENISE MACIAS: Yeah. I'm happy that you took some time from your busy schedule to meet with.

[31:35] YAZMIN PEREZ CONTRERAS: Me, make an appointment.