Vidu Garg and Adrianna Matos-Nieves

Recorded July 29, 2019 Archived July 29, 2019 37:29 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: mby019038

Description

Vidu Garg (49) tells his Ph.D. student, Adrianna Matos-Nieves (25), about his own scientific and medical training and reflects on the way that he runs his research lab.

Subject Log / Time Code

VG summarizes his childhood and education.
VG explains his choice to do lab research as a medical student.
VG remembers the lab he trained in and how he learned how to run a lab.
VG talks about work life balance as a scientist.
VG talks about the significance of asking for help from others.
VG discusses what he is proud of in the lab he runs.
VG explains what he would change about the graduate student experience.
VG talks about building transferrable skills in his students.
VG talks about the "worst" and "best" parts of his work.

Participants

  • Vidu Garg
  • Adrianna Matos-Nieves

Recording Locations

Short North Arts District

Transcript

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00:02 Hi, my name is Adriana matos-nieves. I'm 25 years old. I'm here with my thesis advisor feet is dark and today is July 29th, 2019. And where in Columbus, Ohio?

00:16 Hi, my name is vidu Garg. I'm 49 years old and today is Monday, July 29th, 2019 and we are here in Columbus, Ohio and I'm here with audryanna matos-nieves. He's one of my PhD students in my research laboratory and we were talking about the Genesis of all cardiovascular scientist like who trained to and I know our story it's you trained me and Deepak trains you but I don't know like what you're training look like ending Deepak love and the I guess the stories that you have from that lab and the Lessons Learned was so that was the main reason that I wanted to invite you here today.

01:10 So I guess the we can start by you just telling me you're like background story like growing up and what place and academic background stuff like that that's going to start from the beginning. So I was actually born in India New Delhi India, and then my father was doing his PhD in electrical engineering and so he actually left but I was soon after I was born and when I was six months of age, I actually went and lived with my grandparents my mom's parents and my grandfather was a in the Indian Foreign Service. So I went to Denmark and live with him and my grandmother and my aunt's for about three years before joining.

01:55 My parents and my sister in Virginia, Virginia Tech where my dad was doing his PhD and so then we kind of moved around a little bit. So I live their lives in Portland, Oregon that she lived in Milwaukee Wisconsin kind of always say that I grew up in Pittsburgh because that's where I stashed Anjali went to from 5th grade onward and to high school and Ray graduated high school. And so from there went to a kind of combined undergraduate and medical school program at Penn State University and then Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia and during that time I became interested in a pediatric cardiology and actually my parents moved out to Portland, Oregon again, and I did a research fellowships supported by the American Heart Association work work for the PS4 Surgeon in so that was kind of my interest initially and then

02:52 Did my end up going into Pediatrics and did it here in Columbus, Ohio at Nationwide Children's and then move to Dallas and where I did my peanuts Cardiology Fellowship training and and at UT Southwestern and then ended up in the lab and ended up in Deepak srivastava Cloud State a few years there and then moved here to Columbus Ohio by 10 years ago. So I guess from that. I'm just interested since your dad did a PhD were you trying to deviate from that kind of lifestyle and do an MD instead it? So I'm from India, my parents are from Indiana. And so essentially with your Indian have you and you and your parents moved here. You are given two options. If a weapon you can do as a career you can either go into medicine or you can go into any kind of went into this combined program even out of high school.

03:52 I would say though as I went through the process. I mean there was times where I considered other careers and stuff. But and then it wasn't really till doing some of these other things that kind of drove me into and your credit Cardiology in medicine and such.

04:09 Can you see what else you said something else that I wanted to?

04:14 So let's just do another the question. So you said you just like Cardiology was that just like, oh, I took this one Anatomy course and that was it. No, he's actually so put this pediatric heart surgeon. So I think that got me a little bit more interested in and I mean, obviously what I was doing there was essentially collecting data from medical charts looking at a surgical procedure, you know a surgical procedure and looking how these patients dead.

04:45 Student experience and then during that time. I also got to Shadow him and so I got to watch heart surgeries. Actually. I spent two summers with them when I went back the second summer actually got to go in the operating room and do stuff and I got to go on rounds with him on the weekends and and see the patient so that whole exposure kind of got me really interested in it. I think ultimately as I started learning about the heart in classes and stuff. It was just more of the the physiology and just The Logical nature of kind of how the heart works and when you start combining it with pediatric cardiology where you have some of these different regions, it's just kind of like a puzzle in terms of kind of figuring out like what to do. And so it's kind of a I don't know why it was just fun figuring out like why and what you should do and how you should take care of these patients and I think that was the the biggest thing that Drew me to wanting to study the heart and and specifically pediatric cardiology.

05:45 So when you're in deep a club is that like a thing medical students have to do as a fellowship in a lab clinical training. So when you do your regular pediatric training you don't need to do that. But once you do your fellowship, there is a lot of research time. And so I had about a year-and-a-half. But even before I went to his lab at it already kind of thought about doing research as a career, so I knew I wanted to do pediatric cardiology finishing up my pediatric training, but then I was kind of looking at the different things that you can do with in Pediatric Urology cuz I wonder I didn't want to go into private practice. I wanted to stay in the academic kind of setting and I'd the options if I do you can be an Interventional cardiologist in two procedures in the cath lab for study arrhythmias abnormal heart rhythms, or you could be a heart failure heart transplant doctor and I was kind of found myself kind of War.

06:40 Interested in trying to understand why and I think that's just my personality in terms of New Haven High School. I was you know, the nerdy kid who did all the science fairs and stuff. I like science. I like asking questions and trying to understand why and so before I even interviewed I said, you know, I'm considering I'm more of a science or if you know career and so I had the opportunity when I was there and this is pure lock. I moved there to do my fellowship in 1997 and Deepak move there in 1996. So we didn't really exist. Even when I was when I was interviewing. I think he was in the process of moving and I need a phone interview with them. It was just kind of walk that I fell into that area and into that lab and when you're there. I had about a year year-and-a-half and that's what I kind of went into his lap to do research so we know know that detects life is pretty big. So why don't you just tell us what it was like back in 1997.

07:40 And we so he had been trained by Eric Olsen and so are Colton and also moved from M MD Anderson in 1996 1995-96. And so at that point when I started they hadn't even fully separated. So the lab meeting was one lab meeting and who is we would the people at the trainees and Deepak leopard percent in a larger lot meeting with a lot of the trainees in Eric's lab. I sell that was a little bit different in the lab was essentially there was a couple of postdocs one was hero yamagishi shoes from Pete & elda's from Japan. There is a lab manager.

08:20 Hundred thinking there may be one other pediatric Critical Care. Dr. Aruna who is also there in the lab and so is Reno handful of people who would kind of migrated pretty packing then you know, we're going to research there's also a graduate student his first graduate student. Aparna who is also there is a lot so small it is is there a relatively close knit group, but we're also next to this giant operation, which was dr. Olson flapper free.

08:49 So I guess I just want to know since he run in the lab are Labs so well and I can say that because you can't give me a raise. Did you bring with you stuff that Deepak. You taught you about running a lab or it like treating your employees or was that something that was just in need to you to do so within within the guard love I think of something that I learned I learned it at UT Southwestern cuz you have to remember it. So I went to Medical Training. I never been through a graduate school program, even the research experiences that I had here in Columbus before I went there. He was at the dishion Run lab and it was basically technicians and there wasn't really students. And so when I move there and went into the lab for the first time, it was my first exposure and that exposure was not just to keep at Bubba's prostitute Eric Olson slab and I would say that they both to some extent around their Labs some what's tomorrow early in that manner in terms of its it's a it's a family

09:49 So everybody kind of knows each other and it's more of a

09:54 When I say that.

09:56 It's Community family. And I think it's it's funny that in that way. So there's all the good things about being a family and it's all the bad things about being a family that are all within that lab and so in terms of that Sin Sin from Savino,

10:13 Closeness and bonding and stuff. I think I learned that from Eric's and Deepak laboratory. I think some of the things that

10:22 In terms of you know, really thinking about hiding a focusing on you have a level of science that you want to do in the Ruger science. I think it also came from both of those Laboratories and the trainees that were in those laughs kind of how they thought and just that environment that really kind of shaped how I wanted to run my lab and even the questions that we ask in her lap. I think it's all been influenced by those experiences that I had when I was in the lab. So you your biggest takeaway from detox lab. Are you going to say it with your nature paper person?

11:00 It clearly influence and help me in my career and now is is those papers but you know, I think there's a variety think I think one of the things his how do you run a lot? You know, I think in terms of

11:14 The responsibilities that you give your trainees and you know level of trust but also that level of support so I think there's a there's a balance in terms of you want to support them. But you also want them to learn to be independent and think on their own and I think that's just kind of the experiences that I saw there were essentially the ones individuals that I kind of looked up to you and you know, I do.

11:39 Great students are are. Troy trainees were the ones who really took that level of Independence and took it to the next level. They actually added to the lab and push the field and so it maybe you know Eric Olson celebrity picture of us. But really it's those trainees that's kind of brought in you things and pushed it and push the field forward with that level of support and having the resources to do that. So but you know, I think your question was kind of was the greatest thing from the lab I think is learning. It was really it was that accepts that exposure and

12:20 Learning how to run a lap in in I think that that is what I gained the most I mean clearly yes getting some of those papers out and you know,

12:31 Making those discoveries for great and but then knowing what to do from the next steps, that's what I learned the lab. Right if that's not enough. It's it's not enough to say okay. I found a gene that causes this congenital heart disease. The question is how how does it cost to seize? Can you do something to treat the disease and really going full circle and it's not.

12:58 Let me see what else.

13:03 Sabine scientists are work life is very different from other people. So what lessons has your work-life taught you that you think that I should know? You should know. I mean, I think

13:21 That's a difficult question, you know in the end, especially like the path that like I've chosen but you know what? I'm I'm still I'm also trying to run a lab. I think it's trying to find balance in terms of doing all of that and it's

13:42 Tricky to say the least in terms of where do you where do you go? And where do you put your time? I think the only thing I would say to you is when I look at my life in terms of trying to balance, you know, practicing medicine doing research and having a family and kids and being a father and a husband is priorities and you just have to figure out what's important in terms of

14:10 What can you do or what can someone else do for you? And what are the things that are that you have to do that? It's not replaced and sort that out. And I think that's the advice I would give you no matter what you do. It doesn't matter what you do in your whole life. If you just have to figure out there certain things where it's at or and if it's a torn and you have other things that you can do that are more important to you than you know, see if you can get some other way for those to get job that requires financial means I'll push that put that out there, but if you can that's, you know, it's an easy way to start prioritizing in terms of different thing. I went to a fellow

14:59 I was one of the speakers in a course for cardiology fellows and that one of these national meeting so they will seminar series and one of the other person's was a very senior investigator female cardiologist in one of the young cardiology fellows asked her that if she goes, how did you do this? Like how do you find that much time? And she was two centuries? Like I pay people to do you stop that that's that there's things that anyone can do you know, but no one can be apparent at your kids, you know.

15:36 In a sporting event that has to be you you can't replace that with someone else. And so if you think about all the things that need to get done or not going to be done as well if you would do them, but there's certain things that other people can do and there's certain things I can and I would even say that even if you were in my role as a PhD advisor there certain things that you can get from anyone, you know, but there's certain things that you need from your advisor. So you just have to kind of think about all the different things on that list things that need to get done and get help and we are is it like this can only be you and those are things that you need to do and you need to do well and thinking about that a lot lately about private prioritizing now that I'm thinking about graduation and then I have my Rita commitments so my community outreach committee, which I love but they take up so much time.

16:36 So it becomes this balance of what matters right now, which is my PhD thesis and I care about the project versus these things that I want in the future self.

16:56 Where can you where can you get help? Where can you email function in the more supervisory role? But again, it's a lot of that takes a lot. Like where do you find this person? And then even if you find that person they may not do it the exact way that you do it which you mean not like that much but you have to be willing to say okay from a bigger picture is what they're doing wrong. Probably not it's just different than you just have to accept that and say okay that's not the way I would do it but they're still accomplishing a goal and then it gives you more time and I think that's one of the things that it's hard to start saying, okay. It's kind of reducing some of your responsibilities because you're only one person and there's only 24 hours in a day do in terms of their sacrifices in the end their sacrifices for me from so many people involved in in the different things that we that I end up doing because there's no way that I can do all of this.

17:56 People I think everything is knowing.

18:00 What you can do and what you can't do and so I think I've heard somebody say, you know.

18:06 You have to know what you know and yet know what you don't know which is basically saying like ask for help. If you don't know how to do something that you can't learn how to do it, but you can't take a lot of time right and so reaching out and using the resources that you have and then also being also willing to help other people right? That's so essentially how it works. Like well someone else needs help so you help them, but then when you need help you get help and that's essentially creating that Community to allow that to occur more summer students Elliot and Emily, they would never want to ask for help and I'm like, why are you wasting so much time trying to reinvent the wheel? So when Selita join the lab or newest graduate student, I told her up front like the thing you need to learn here is that if you help people will help you and then you have to help them in the future.

19:06 And that's just how we work for you know, what I would have to say that that's the kind of the environment that came out of an MD with very little Basics research training who went into a lab and a very high-powered labs. And so essentially but I brought my expertise. I knew you know, heart disease and medicine but there's other people who hurt other strengths and then also when I started working with another group and did you learn human genetics and so then you bring in that knowledge, which other people may not have an essentially that's what it is. It's like I walk into a room in the others people that are smarter than me, but I have my areas of expertise which they may not have and then it becomes this balance. If I were sharing information, ultimately the goal that anyone in that room is is like we need to solve a question, you know is like increase her knowledge about whatever we're sending and then we all have our expertise allows us to push that forward.

20:05 So what do you think has been the guard slept biggest achievement to date?

20:10 If you want to narrow it down to one or maybe two so I'll put it in two different ways. And so I'll say one is the thing that I'm most proud of is in terms of is the people so I put that is just in terms of the people who've gone to the lab yet high school students. Her undergraduate students graduate students postdoctoral trainees is I love watching to see what everybody's doing. And I think majority I'll never say all but the majority have gone on to be successful and happy and so that's something that I personally take a lot of pride in if you were to go purely scientific. I think when we started at least when I started publishing some of these papers were essentially taking jeans that were known to be important heart development.

20:58 And then creating mice that had two teams that were disrupted in that mouth. People are like why are you doing this? Honestly feels like what are you expecting to happen? Of course the defects going to be worse, but now as we learn more and more about the genetics of how a congenital heart defect occurs now, it's like really obvious so far. It's it's becoming more relevant to understand that so I can give the example if you have that a gene got a for which cars are considered heart disease tbx by would cause of congenital heart disease mouth that has both of them. They have a different type of heart defect and we started today nitric oxide signaling as you know, and they're not and if you take those two and you have a mouse that has both of those jeans, then you have a more severe aortic valve defect right so that

21:50 When we initially publish their like this isn't boring or this is not interesting. You really don't understand the mechanism. But really it's more relevant to the patient that we see cuz most of them do not just have a single Gene causing the congenital heart defect most of its going to BT's Gene Gene interactions. And now we're doing some stuff with Gene environment interaction and that's what's causing it. So I want to say that we're a little bit ahead of the game and shrimps are really looking at these G&G interactions and Gene environment interaction. So I think that are going to be more interesting and I think it's going to be interesting as we can hurt a link some of these to our patients I agree. So what's the ultimate guard project without giving anything away to your reviewer's or potential applications? Like what would be the a big project that we haven't done yet that you would like to see us 2

22:43 To the big party that I would like to see us to right now, but it's always in the back of my mind has been

22:51 Is to take some of the genetics and so there are some genetics that we know right that are causing chromosome trisomy, 21 22 Q on one microdeletion and we know they influence outcomes for I would love to see is take some of these other.

23:09 Variance that we see in jeans from Porton in heart development and Lincoln talcum because ultimately

23:17 That's what we want to know. We want to know if you have this genetic variant. Is it going to affect something about this kids?

23:28 Surgical outcome lifetime out of Lifetime cardiovascular. That's what we want to know, you know to know why it occurs. I think it's important.

23:39 We can provide a lot of you know, counseling for families and parents but ultimately were getting better at treating it and so for the majority defects are still some that it's still hard to kind of come up with a surgical cure. But if you for the majority of them we have pretty good outcomes. Were there leave living into their 30s 40s 50s, but they don't all do the same and so like can you use some of this information to predict who's going to be at risk? Because then you could put it potentially prevent that I think some of the other stuff for you like, you know, we can do gene therapy at really early gestation. I think it's a little bit

24:19 And then there's me a lot of steps before we start doing some of that stuff and it's not a single team. So in order to do some of the stuff would be very tricky. Like why are you doing this in mice? And what does it mean for humans? Because I know I do.

24:39 I do but I

24:41 I think the the simple fact or matter so we study developmental biology and to do it in humans is exceedingly hard. And yes, there's now better models in terms of using towels and stuff. We're not making an Oregon and so I still think there's some limitations on that and ultimately would probably have to do a combination of things. Yes. We're going to have to use my speaker also going to have to use some sort of human cells to really look at the the genetic contributions to Palisade all of birth defects matches considered effects.

25:19 Okay. So what do you think needs to change about The Graduate School experience?

25:28 I know it's a really bloated question.

25:33 I think there's a variety of different things to me. I think they're graduate school experience right now is so dependent upon which librarian right you could have a very different experience if you're in lybacks versus boil extra spicy.

25:49 Anything from that standpoint, but that's going to be nice. If it was if there was a better way to match the right personality with the right lab. So those are some things that I owed to say, they're a little bit out of out of my control or deleted do that. It's kind of like more of a matchmaking thing. But if I were to just go a graduate school education, I think the things that it would be nice when people came in if they had an idea of what they wanted to do like, oh I'm interested in getting a Ph.D. But I want to do public policy or I'm interested in getting a PC, but I want to do more science journalism or patent law or you're interested in no science in education and communication and then you are in a slightly different track right now. It's essentially like you are a PhD student and we are going to train you to be a principal investigator who runs her own lab.

26:49 That may not be this one-size-fits-all is probably not the best way to do it nightly idea really is a organ train you and then you'll later on you'll do another postdoctoral fellowship for Public Policy fellowship and learn that and it seems like it would just make more sense of started right up front. And really I think the other aspect is the focus of your PhD is understanding research methodology and how to generate a hypothesis look to a literature and really do that independently and you know, you kind of started out with that question like and what do you think about you know, how do you organize for Aladdin? So it's giving people independent cuz that's what you need to do and it's not really that you need a result.

27:34 That's going to help your pi to help them get a grant because I think it's so focused on that right? I think you feel pressure students feel pressure that they need to get certain results to help their that their science project, you know that their principal investigators science project move forward being educated their students and if it was a little bit more of a focus on their education, but then it should be Taylor tour to get what they want to do. If they know if they already have an idea then they should be able to tailor then and then that process would be different and you will learn a lot of different things in terms of that so that when you're done that you're better prepared to move on to the next so I haven't been able to freeze it like you did but that's exactly how I feel that right now. We're just all pushed towards being the eyes and if we don't want to do that, then we're like the outlier and we feel that we might be shown.

28:34 Or criticized by a graduate program if we don't follow this like track that was laid out for us. So thank you for being supportive of me. They think they also feel the pressure insurance is the way they're being measured is interested how that's how success is measured and you know, I can't even get back to my lab is like, I don't look at my lab and say hello. How are you? People are becoming scientist, or are they look like they but they've used their peach tea or postdoctoral research training Jordan with some career whatever it may be but they're actually using an out there.

29:13 You know, they finish up their PHD fitness instructor. Maybe that's not

29:25 You know, somebody was in India who's running really relatively High position looking at kind of using her platform to expand research opportunities within India and the other university those are different things that you can then ultimately see that they use that training to push that forward or they say they wasted their time that they didn't really realize that what they learned. I came in knowing exactly what I wanted to do. But I also knew that I was going to gain so much from the PHD experience cuz critical thinking we'll just take you so many places. So that's been really beneficial for me. I think that's one of the things I hope that you noticed is that you're giving a lot of Independence and you're expected to learn a lot on your own.

30:22 But that's precisely I think that's what you should get out of a PhD is that if you needed to youcanlearnanything and you can read and absorb literature and put together a presentation and communicated.

30:38 And that can apply to so many different fields. I can just tell you that if you go into the business world and they can you say hey, I'm going to give you an employee that can do all the research summarize everything and then tell you you know in depth about a certain topic to be like, that's awesome. Right and you don't need to help them to do that. So that's the kind of that's one aspect. I think yes research design and testing hypotheses and that's that's a whole different aspect in terms of understanding science, but that's the other aspect of really having some Independence and not being able to communicate right now. I think I have you guys send emails to you know, senior scientist around the world and a new you have to be willing and then and have comfort to do that and not feel like oh my God, I can't send this email know you can send this email and people will respond if you're asking him an appropriate question for their expertise.

31:38 Cuz I think I was rude that skill set that you need to have in order to really be successful matter what you do. So since we're wrapping up, what are your hopes for the future for me, and anything that you've never told me but you need to tell me now so I can be archived forever. I don't know right I think you know where the opportunity that you've had doing your PhD. I'm glad that you've kind of push forward your science in your project. But you've also taking the time out to relieve go back to what your interests were in terms of Science Education and communicating science. And so it's nice to see is your finishing up your PhD that that I taken another prominent role and I'm very proud of, you know, some of the stuff you're doing. I don't even know till I feel like, you know, when are Nationwide Children's email inbox?

32:38 Did that worried that your committee meeting and you're showing me pictures of the Ya-Ya. I was at someone at this high school or does elementary school doing Science Education or you had all of these things from the lab at kosai. Sorry. It's taking that initiative right to do things that can actually be impactful. So, I'm really I'm hopeful that you keep that enthusiasm. It cos you find you know your way through and kind of move that forward I do if there's anything I've never told you.

33:13 I think I tell you everything.

33:17 Sometimes know too much about Mayim Bonet.

33:26 You know, I mean, I'm usually pretty straightforward cuz I cuz again I think there's expectations that I have and

33:35 One of the things that you are you're probably hearing maybe maybe I'm not saying it to directly.

33:43 Finishing projects and I think you've seen it from other people in the lab like how hard it is to finish the project. And so that's hopefully something for you to remember. It's like finishing a project hard.

33:57 And if you don't finish it sometimes some people finish it and sometimes it just sits there and no one does anything inside. I promise. It's up to you. How much do you want to finish it and how much but it takes a lot of effort at the end that last 10 to 15% is a lot of work even though you feel like I put in so much work into this project but finishing it and Publishing it and actually get answer is not trivial. So what's the worst thing about your job?

34:42 Balancing balance and I mean, I think that's the biggest thing. I mean, so the one aspect is bouncing. I think that there's certain aspects of the job but you have to do so, that's why the administrative stuff a lot of the paperwork writing grants. I mean, they're just aspects of that which you know, I personally don't enjoy that much do them because you have to do them and I think that's life. And so I don't know if everybody realizes there's no with anything you do there's good things and bad things and hopefully the good outweigh the bad info for me the good things, you know the people

35:22 Studying, you know of having the privilege to study whatever we want. That's that's really cool. Honestly, when you think about it, like we can say, you know, this has permission or anything, but if you have funding we can pursue it and that is really fun. And I think for me balancing some of the clinical stuff that I do I still get to see patients and interact with them in, Tennessee.

35:50 We're potentially the research could actually impact is is is Ben really a lot of fun? But yeah did ministrative stuff and there's more and more administrative staff from the hospital side and the research side not funny not funny at all. But I guess you're going back to Hurley party conversation. If you notice I get a lot of help doing that. We now know I can do this and then it's like trying to figure out ways so that it's not completely dumping it on someone. It's like, okay, let's share this aspect so we can get it done. Unless question. What's the best thing if you have to pick just one?

36:33 People people that's fine. If it's the relationships with the people in the lab and you seen it when we get the lab together and stuff. It's those are the that's the fun that is by far and about and I would actually put number for the lab and I would save with the clinical stuff. It's you know interactions with patients and families and and having those relationships back with Ally bits.

36:59 It's it's relationship. The trainees is that way lab birthdays are so important under the best conditions on conditions. Like thanks card game still my favorite day of the year. Thank you for doing this is very interesting.