Anthony Flemming and Lynn Penning

00:05 My name is Anthony Flemming. My age is 56 today's date is August 17th, 2019, Flint, Michigan.

00:19 And I'm being interviewed by a friend of mine.

00:23 My relationship to her as a friend name is Lynn Penning.

00:28 And my name is Lynn Penning and I am 63 years old. Today's date is Saturday, August 17th, 2019. We are recording here in Flint Michigan. The name of my interview partner is Anthony Flemming and my relationship with Anthony is a friend. I've known him for 15 years.

00:48 So I'm going to start the story.

00:52 By saying the story when I heard about storycorps, my first thought was I had no real interesting stories in my life. And I realized that some of the most interesting stories in my life have come into my life through other people and I thought of you and so I was the one who invited you here today to talk with me about your story your story. The one that we're going to talk about for me started in mid September of 2008, but for you, I realized that the story we're going to talk about started much earlier than that. So I'm going to back to August of 2008.

01:32 And in my hand, I have a document.

01:35 It is an incident report that was filed as a Kent County police department in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The incident number is 08056. 674

01:49 And the recording officer wrote this report stating that you came to the Grand Rapids police report Department because you were having trouble with someone who would not get out of your car or someone refuse to get out of your car. So you drove to the police department to get some assistance. You went inside you walked out of the police department with two officers who went to your car who asked the woman to get out they had to convince her to get out and according to this report word-for-word. I'm reading it from the report Lori refuse to talk to the captain Whitman and chose to walk away eastbound on Monroe.

02:30 As Lori was walking away. She turned and shouted to Anthony. You'll be dead tomorrow.

02:36 Lori didn't elaborate on this thread and quit walking.

02:41 My first question to you is who is Lori and how did you come to know this person? And can you elaborate on this incident that happened August 7th?

02:54 AB 2008

02:57 Well to Parker that I came to know Lori one day walking out of Walgreens. I like I'm not sure mm.

03:09 Six 7 somewhere Ben that walking out of Walgreens. She approached me and asked me she gave me a compliment.

03:19 Ask me did I do at work out. I told her I do she asked me did I do personal training? I told her I did she ask me that I have a phone number. I gave her one of my business cards. That was the first encounter with Lori up.

03:38 Start louder you no dissing casual conversation.

03:44 I agree to do a consultation with her regarding personal training.

03:53 That transpired to other things we're getting to later on but two tier address the issue with the day of the incident wouldn't

04:05 Lori Wu's fusing to get out of my car that we had to have a relationship and

04:15 I drove to Kent Kent County police station to have a remove cuz I didn't want to put my hands on her she refused to get out my car. So I have a flag on a police officer. Could you have this lady get out of my car don't want in my car and he said man when you get out of his car and she refused to do it then there for another sergeant came loose and telling her to give getting instructing her to get out of the car. She refused to do it and see if you don't get out of this car going to rescue. So finally she gets out the car while walking away. She says you will be there tomorrow. So I mix it. What did you say?

05:02 She wouldn't say anything he ordered her to come back. She kept walking. They asked me did I want to make a report?

05:14 I told no I'm fine. I'm all good and it's like now we insist that you come in and do the report. So that's how the report came about. I came in they witnessed the threat in Sedalia that incident on the bottom of the statement. Anthony was provided with this incident number and instructions for a PPO while you were provided that was provided by Kathy Captain Whitman. No in between meeting her at Walgreens in roughly 2006 and this incident in 2008. There's quite a gap. So you mentioned she was interested in training. Can you tell me a little bit about

05:59 I'm I guess I'm going to ask you about the first day. She came to your apartment.

06:05 Under the pretense of a training session. Can you tell me what happened that day? Perhaps workout. She showed up at my apartment.

06:21 I invited her in she said she wanted to get started while right away to start working out so I can show her some exercise to lose weight.

06:37 She asked me cook did I have a bathroom bathroom? She could use to change my appointment was the bathroom with you in the bathroom and

06:47 Procedure to get undressed without closing door. I thought it was kind of odd for someone their first time coming to into a stranger's house and to change out of her work uniform until I workout a tire she got completely undress in front of me. So I was like, wow, okay, I didn't read anything to it because I'm from Detroit.

07:13 Be a few things shocks me from being from Detroit's I didn't read it to be watching two that you start the relationship with Lori by being a personal trainer, but sometime during this two-year. This relationship transitions changes the Dynamics. Can you tell me a little bit about from the time you begin training her to the incident the day that required you to go to the police department. Tell me a little bit about how the relationship changed over time and what the relationship was like for you.

07:53 Wow.

07:55 Well, they had to

07:58 Describe the relationship and beside turbulence.

08:03 From the time I met Lori.

08:06 I come to understand that she had a romantic romantic interest in.

08:13 Being in a relationship with me that I didn't have with her.

08:18 I was more of a a business arrangement with me with personal training in with me just being friends and I start progressed cuz she made it seem you started making it known to me that she wanted to be more than just friends more than a business Arrangement ask trainee trainer type of relationship. So

08:42 I said three or four months. We somehow manage to him.

08:47 Get involved on a personal level and for you. Was it a serious relationship?

08:55 I come to find out later on in her mind that it was more than what I thought it was, you know in my mind was like, okay, we just hanging out and we occasionally get together if we had sex fine if we hung out we had breakfast or lunch. That's all it was for me, but in her mind, I'm assuming that we was in a committed relationship with some cocaine out from that original police report that I referenced I reading Angela.

09:27 I see a woman with a somewhat assertive personality to refuse to get out of someone's car even at a police officer's request sort of indicates a person with an assertive personality. Can you tell me a little bit about Lori's personality?

09:43 From your perspective was extremely aggressive and how full is a full example.

09:56 Lori didn't draw the line on Boundary she did with no boundaries for her. She would cross from where I would say she want me to come over and I will say no. Well if I say if I tell her no, she would be adult tantrum like a child when she would be extremely aggressive, but she would be with the name calling threats blackmail.

10:24 Where you would be even with the

10:30 How would I put this?

10:33 Guilt of harming himself to go to the extreme where you know, you don't care about me. Why am I even alive? I wish she would make after I mean makeup

10:46 I wouldn't use the word threats, but how would I describe she was informed me that?

10:52 She would talk about suicide or harming our self fast forward to September mid September 2008 middle of the month, maybe the 17th or 18th of the month.

11:06 This is when the story started for me. This is when I became aware of your story. I got a call from the Kent County jail, and the call was from you.

11:17 And can you please tell everyone who's listening to this? Why you were calling me from the cat County Jail?

11:25 The day that I call you I had just been arrested and I had been picked up from the Kent County Sheriff department and was accused of sexual assault.

11:41 Shocking to me I O

11:45 Didn't quite understand why what had just happened. But all I know that the only person I could call was you were my brother. My mother had just passed at that point. So well, my mother hadn't passed yet, but days after my mother passed but we from this incident, but I was just just been arrested for sexual assault and who were you arrested for sexually assaulting a couple days prior to your arrest. Can you tell me what happened on I believe it was Friday night, August 12th going into early the Early part of Saturday morning you had gotten into an argument with Lori. Can you kind of feel the listener in on

12:37 The Dynamics of an argument

12:42 Prior to the arrest three days prior to that.

12:48 Or and I will sit and talk and then we've talked about her behave her Antics who's going to work phone and don't when I was going through her phone. I found pictures of other men jeans genitalia and

13:07 It was at that point. I had my mind no more this I didn't want it no more no longer going to be in that relationship anymore. So I told her I got to be done with this.

13:17 Inform Lord that I can't do this. I can't see you anymore. You're a liar. You're manipulating your controlling you got some issues going on here. So I try to break it off Glory.

13:32 I said everything comes out your mouth. What's a life so

13:37 At that point I had made my mind up, but I wasn't going to see her anymore.

13:41 So she called me and call me and call me and call me. I wake up. I don't know exactly what day it was, but I had like 40.

13:52 4250 call that she had called through the night and I refuse to answer, so finally I answer want to call I want I want to talk to she said she want to talk to me. Nice. I don't want I don't have anything to say to you.

14:08 And she called me all that day.

14:12 And when she called me all day, and I said when you ready to tell me the truth, then you call me so I went about my day. I went to work and went to Holland came back.

14:22 On my way back from Holland cheese, and I want to talk to you. I promise you I tell you the truth I came over.

14:30 But I got over to your house.

14:33 It was the same old stuff July's the manipulation and stuff like that. So at that point.

14:41 I was fed up with it. So in my mind, I'm thinking any kind of way. I can get out of this relationship any kind of way. So at that point I proceeded to

14:54 Disrespect her

14:56 How did you disrespect her I was by seeing humiliating and degrading things in any kind of way. I could possibly do it by using vulgar language for profanity bees the bitch word horror. I was trying to do the grade. Are you in any way? I possibly can to break this thing off.

15:28 I even struck her with a belt I assaulted her. So what came out to be later on this sexual assault should have been nothing more than a domestic assault.

15:43 I was wrong. That was my role was wrong and it will hold by the name call in the degrading.

15:52 But anyway, you get the picture that you spend an evening at her house in the evening. According to Lori started out normal conversation Pleasant enough. You're sitting on the couch next to each other you find these pictures the discussion becomes heated. You become angry. She is angry according to Lori. She's yelling at you. You're yelling at her it escalates. You take her belt off you Striker with a belt you're arguing in the living room.

16:27 Following the argument in the living room. Can you tell me what happened?

16:32 Things, what happened later on things come down. We're both agreed to go upstairs and make up.

16:41 Tomato head. What does that mean? We come down. We agreed to go upstairs and have make-up sex. So we went upstairs to have sexual intercourse upstairs when we get upstairs.

16:58 I look at the situation differently. Like it's the same old manipulation is the same or more of the same nonsense. So at that point to be

17:09 Bold say I couldn't get an erection. I had this I was mentally this exhausted, So I decided that I can't do it. I can't do this anymore, so I couldn't get an erection. So I wanted out so I get up to take a shower.

17:23 She comes getting shower as well.

17:28 Accurately at that point her friend lady named Melissa Anne Smith starts to call Lori tells her she can't talk at the time cuz Tony and I are fighting again.

17:46 I guess that shower get dressed. I tries to leave.

17:53 When I tried to leave.

17:55 Why can't find my keys?

17:58 And so prior to that Lori has a bad habit of taking my keys and hiding them so so I can't leave so I feel trapped and so Lori comes down Messi still calling.

18:12 I'm telling Lori. Give me my keys. I want out of here. I want out of here, but I can't find my keys. I don't I'm so we are I'm so frustrated with it. I'm trying to leave at this point, but I say at this point. I'm telling forget about the car. I don't even care about my car at this point. I'm just leaving.

18:33 She's standing in doorway. I'm trying to remove her out of my way so I can leave when she's grabbing onto my clothes grabbing onto my shirt and I'm trying to physically remove her as a doorway so I can leave but she's a very heavy.

18:51 Overweight individuals so we bump into a few thing chairs chairs tables.

19:02 I did Point Melissa shows up. She comes over with a friend hers, Melissa Smith.

19:12 The longtime drinking buddy of Lori and partying budding

19:17 Sheev Missy comes in

19:21 She's with some some Gentleman Just sitting in the car. He's behind the passenger seat the passenger side Melissa on the driver side, Melissa County in

19:37 And she gets right in the middle of us American.

19:42 And you should have been left this in word this Niger to use the word Niger.

19:51 And I said, what did you say to me, since you heard me Niger cuz she called me the n-word several times.

19:58 I said next time you call me that you know, it's going to be a problem to hit me. I want you to hit me so I can put your black ass in prison.

20:08 And say I just want to get I just want out of here.

20:11 Just give me my keys Lori Lori refuse to get me Lori insist on us having a conversation and I'm telling Lori. I don't want to do this no more. I just want out. So messy tell story that Niger his keys.

20:27 So he can go.

20:29 At that time

20:31 Anyway, well, okay. So I tied I have some questions their personal you can decline to answer them. But I I just think that the relevant when you went upstairs and you had sex with Lori Lori claims you fail to eject ejaculate is that it would you agree with that? She said she was to penetrate me. Would you agree with that? All right. Did you use a condom or lubricant?

21:01 Well, it's the same old things that we've used motion around some type of lubricant. But like I said, I couldn't get an erection and where did the condom in the lubricant come from?

21:18 So let me get this straight you're you're arrested for sexual assault which was first degree CSC, which is rape. It's also a second-degree was one of your charges. They had dropped even though the police officer that responded to the incident recommended a domestic assault charge charge the prosecuting attorney's office drop that you're charged with 1st and 2nd degree CSC.

21:47 And what you're telling me is that after the alleged rape happened?

21:53 You went downstairs and according to Lori's words and later preliminary testimony you stood around talking for a few hours. That's a pretty casual turn. We stood around talking which sounds like it's arguing, but you're telling me that the woman who is accusing you of rape.

22:12 Failed to give you your keys so that you could leave is that correct? Do I have the straight?

22:22 Tell me about Missy when she arrived. She arrived at 2 a.m. I know in Michigan bars close at 2 a.m. I know she wasn't driving her own car. What condition was Missy and when she arrived at Lori's house to someone intoxicated? I will as well.

22:39 Messi is someone that

22:44 Lori had brought into outer space.

22:50 Partying for my 44th birthday. I think it was that Missy came over on the request of Lori and I having a threesome.

23:00 Missy was Lori party and Buddy and drinking buddy.

23:08 How can I describe Missy very abrasive wheel of noxious?

23:15 Party in person and Missy later on end up dying in a crash when I saw the police article that Missy had been killed in a drunk driving accident, which she had swerved. She's driving intoxicated. She's served. She had a semi went off the road killed herself. One of the things I noticed was in that police report. They clearly stated. She had been drinking in your police report, even though she had a ride from a bar. She was intoxicated. They never mentioned that she had been drinking. She was the states one of the state's key Witnesses when this eventually went to trial was she in Laurie's apartment when the sexual activity occurred

24:05 No, she wasn't so she arrived after whatever you were charged with she arrives after so she wasn't really a witness on site during the event. So there was a guy that she was with and he eventually left. I'd like to take

24:23 You're going to hear some paper shuffling.

24:30 I'm looking for.

24:38 Okay, what I have in front of me is at the actual preliminary hearing Court transcript date of September 29th.

24:51 So during the preliminary hearing your attorney. John Beason, Lori is talking about standing around with you and Missy and the kitchen talking and Jon Beason Tasker. Will what were where were you at? When Tony and Missy were arguing in the kitchen and Lori States? I went out to check on her friend and let him know he could go home that we were fine. And then Jon Beason Attorney. John Beason says, let me understand this you are just raped by this man and you went out in the parking lot talking to some other man cracked and Lori replies Underoath. I wasn't talking to another man. I was letting him know that Melissa and I were fine and he could go home.

25:38 So was he driving a vehicle? He was in the passenger seat Melissa drove the vehicle. So how did he go? How did he leave? He just left at some point when we were talking so.

25:51 After being allegedly raped she stood around talking with you. She could have left she had an opportunity to leave with this man. She didn't I think that's a kind of an interesting scenario that it in the preliminary.

26:10 Okay, so she had your keys you unadd up going home. Can you tell me?

26:20 What what happened over the next few days two days later something significant happen, right? I am next day. I went to work took my son to daycare. Like I did every day went about my day today after that. I got up went to work and drop my son off for daycare went to work.

26:52 I went to the YMCA to work out. Well, give me to leave the YMCA.

27:00 Someone approached me in the parking lot of the YMCA. They asked me my name I gave him my name he pulled his gun on me come to find out it was a

27:12 Kent County Federal Marshal

27:15 When he put his Mark. He said he identified itself told me we was a look around. There's two or three other Marshals surrounding me in the parking lot.

27:26 Any ask to tell me to put my hands up set my gym bag down, except my gym bag down the approach me with guns.

27:36 They said don't make any trouble don't make any problems. We want to put the cuffs on you.

27:43 Play put the cuffs on Master. What is this all about? What is this all about? They said we only explain it to you. Once we get your new car on once they get me the car. They tell me.

27:54 Did I was being charged with sexual assault?

27:58 And I'm set on who what are you talkin about? What it what are you crazy? And they said well you been accused by or Lori pyramid. I thought you crazy man. I have been dating this woman for 3 years. This is ridiculous.

28:14 So when you get me down to the Kent County.

28:19 Jail

28:20 Do you allow a phone call once they fingerprinted me the allow me to make a phone call. The first person I called was Lori.

28:30 Lori received to call Lori Lori accepted to call

28:35 Meanwhile that the phone call are being recorded once you called.

28:42 First thing I asked Lori little what what is this all about? Why would you do something this crazy? Why would you say something like this here?

28:51 The first thing come out and Lori's mouth was I didn't do this. I didn't do this.

28:58 Missy did this I said Missy couldn't be at this luring you had to put this up and get this thing started. Why would you do something like you said I didn't do this. She said I went downtown yesterday and try to drop these charges once I realize how serious they were.

29:16 But Missy got the ball rolling on this end to end a civil or you need to come down here and straighten this out.

29:25 Okay, so you you're booked your lodged you call her in attempt to try to just fix the situation like perhaps you could talk some sense into her. It didn't work the next thing the following day. You were arraigned. I went to the arraignment not being familiar with the court system. I got there a little early to make sure I could get a seat and actually when I arrived the courtroom was empty. I sat down a few minutes later at all skin thin blonde woman walks in along with a heavy-set woman. They sat down in the front of the courtroom. The heavy-set woman turned around and looked at me and said who are you here for? I said, I'm here for Anthony Flemming. She said how do you know him?

30:11 I got him a friend. She's got a boyfriend or a girlfriend. I sent a friend and at that time I felt her questions were quite intrusive and she shifted the conversation and she began she showed me that bruise on her arm and began to tell me what a terrible boyfriend you were that you would show up at our house and eat dinner and have sex and then you would leave quite a bit of personal information.

30:36 At the end of the arrangement which we watched you on video.

30:42 I walked out of that courtroom and my gut feeling was this is not a rape situation. This is an angry girlfriend you a few weeks later. You had your preliminary hearing.

30:55 And a sound that you know, the charges were I guess she left it over to the Circuit Court and eventually you were able to post spawn you were released while you were waiting for trial which was several months. There were several delays a couple delays were based on request from the prosecution. I know the week of the trial Jon Beason your attorney requested the delay because we had a second case the same week your case was scheduled the court denied it. So obviously your attorney went into trial with a quite a full plate. But what I find interesting is while you're waiting for trial because you're accused of raping Lori pyramid. I have in my hand a card dated February 2009. It's addressed to you rather than the sender using their return address. They used yours, but the card says every time I hold your hand I fall in love all over again.

31:55 There's also a handwritten note. Mr. Fleming with you. Please read that handwritten note.

32:01 Is there a mr. Fleming I fall in love all over again? I can't say anything else. You you all the one I mean you are is for the you are the one that makes my my world a little little help a little bit happier hot tub soon. Love you.

32:24 It is funny. Okay. So why would the woman why would a woman send her rapist a card like that? Can you give me any insight? Do you have a wraith? Okay. Alright, so there are other letters she sent you.

32:39 During the prop the time in between the accusation and the actual trial. Could you read the yellow highlighted areas, please?

32:55 It says when I sit and think about how

33:00 My actions have

33:03 Change our lives

33:08 I get sick to my stomach.

33:14 I think it's a visual I mean

33:18 I like Ike something but my my action.

33:23 On my past experience with the court.

33:28 Joe and let my friends talked me.

33:34 Into filing this report. The only only thing I want to do was hurt you and all I did was hurt both of us.

33:46 Okay, so there is another portion of this.

33:53 There's more than one letter. She actually wrote a second letter, which she had notarized. She sent to the court and end her letter. She states the sex was consensual and

34:05 Your it was not a rape.

34:08 Despite the fact that in the court file there was a letter a notarized letter from Lori stating. The sex was consensual the prosecutor went to had called to jury. Anyway, you went to court and what was the verdict at your trial? The jury couldn't reach a verdict if it was flak over the hung jury, so

34:35 Okay, so I hung jury at that point you had two options you could go back to trial again.

34:44 You could plead guilty. What option did you take my attorney wanted another $15,000 for trial. Let me have it hung jury. I had a newborn son. I just had got married. I was trying to get on with life. That's why I chose the option to take to plea-bargain Up Stables threatening me with her 35 years in prison or take six months in the county jail. If I go to trial I get thirty-five years if I take the plea I could be out in 75 days. So I took the plate. Okay. So while you're in prison serving time for raping or a pyramid I have two documents in front of me. When is the court document could you look at this? This is a restraining order who filed a restraining order and who is a restraining order on

35:38 Do restraining orders from my time my wife by Lori coming by the house refusing to stay away from my house while I was serving time. Okay, so she's harassing your wife while you're in prison for raping her. This is an email document or Facebook communication between Lori Pearman and Kathleen, who is the mother of your other son while you're in prison for raping.

36:04 Lori Pearman, Lori is also harassing your other mother of the your other child. You eventually get out of prison 6 months in prison. You're out on Tether fast forward 2 years later.

36:19 Lori Pearman is contacting you and on a day when I actually let's go back in February of 2008. She gives you this Valentine book. I love you forever. You are the love of my life 2 weeks later. She calls you. She asked you to come to her home.

36:39 There is a letter on the door that says could you please come in? I promise no passes or anyting you walked in her house. Can you quickly tell us what the result of that walk into her house? What how did that affect your life by me coming over to our house too and to discuss threats of I'm going to tell them your probation officer that we've had contact but if you come over you talk to me. I just wanted to have it close the chapter on this relationship. I came over to talk to Lori at that time. She was sitting to standing living room in the living room with her friend Tony Sanchez. When I walked in with her from a friend of hers named Tony Brown with upstairs hidden taking pictures of my license plates in taking pictures of my car at my license plates when I leave come to find out that it was a setup where

37:37 She lured me over to the house. They took pictures of my car. They call my probation officer and probation officer and he found out that I had violated contact with having to contact with her. Okay, so about a week later you're standing in court you're being accused of a probation violation for having contact with Lori pyramid your your lawyer explains that it's mutual. She was contacting you you were having contact with her you pleaded guilty to having contact with her.

38:09 Where did you go? And how long did you stay there?

38:12 For having a violation of a no-contact order with Lori. I was sentenced to prison for 6 years, okay.

38:21 Anything you want to say to some up your story?

38:25 No, I just do six years. I spent in prison for a crime I didn't commit.

38:33 The first year to I was bitter and angry about it. I felt a real Injustice was done to me but doing that time I am.

38:43 Took a bunch of classes self-help classes read a lot of books learned a lot. It changed me to change me inside out or I learn the light. I've got somewhat grateful that the things I learned in there and and if it wasn't for the experience, I wouldn't be the person that I am now. I had to unlearn a bunch of dysfunction stuff growing up in Detroit.

39:12 So if you could go back in time.

39:15 What would you do differently on the day you met Lori?

39:19 Run the other way.