Asya Harrison and Lydia Mensah

00:03 Hello, my name is Asia. I am 28 years old. Today is Sunday, August 25th, 2019 location. Where in Flint Michigan I am here with my friend Leah.

00:18 So, my name is Lydia and I am 26 and it is Sunday, August 25th, 2019. We are in Flint Michigan and I'm here with my friend Asia.

00:31 All right. So I'm going to do you want to start earlier we can start earlier. So I want to know what experience has led you to apply to grad school and giving your experiences so far. Would you do it again or you would you change this is really interesting question, right? So as you already not like I'm the first PhD student in my family and I don't even think that grass goes really even on my radar when I was an undergrad. So I think it was undecided for maybe the first year and then the second year I chose Child and Adolescent development was already interested in teaching about San Jacinto Elementary School, which is super funny. I mean cuz you know, I really can't stay.

01:19 I do and I tried I tried so hard like I talk to this thing. I was teaching my supply and demand of my fourth graders or some like that to me, but the visitor United me what they really mean to their teacher know that I'm crying saying it's a lie too much and then I remember my first psychology class and I was like, I just exposed to remember walking up is like psychology is made sense to me like quickly get rid of those classes. We are sitting in it and it helps the world make better sale. That's what you meant. She was for me. So you see things like click and that's what I called you was for me. Like I just saw the world in a really even clear passy that just The Classy I just made sense to me that water to my professors my first class intro psychology. I want your afterward and I was like, I'm going to get a doctor in Psychology and she was like, what was she was like, okay. She's like it's going to take a lot of work and I think I'm going to do it. And so I took Psych on it.

02:19 Minor in my major was Child and Adolescent development was kindly developmental psych so I know so much about kids to really not be able to stay there. And so then I got a job and it was my first real job got a job and like our Smart Lab our tutoring lab and I have been so afraid of statistics for so long. So I went to like this Math and Science Academy, whatever it is it a whirlwind on my self-confidence. Like I was really bad at chemistry surprising end of tutoring chemistry to all the way up to Oak him, but I suck at it.

02:55 Horizon it's a jigsaw puzzle. If it doesn't it doesn't doesn't think so much of chemistry in the beginning reminded me of Statistics cuz it's a lot alike word problems and it's just kind of trying to take this information like out of this puzzle or some sort to have put together and it just clicks me so well in college when I took him like I was tutoring people while I was taking the classic as I was learning statistics, I was trying people so I got hired as a tutor I worked there for maybe a year as a tutor and then I got hired as a supplement to instructors. I start teaching, classes, like a GSI weather like in grad school and so I taught them for three years and it just really opened my mind to I was very interesting ly help-seeking behavior in like identity and how people's identities you influence like how they feel comfortable seeking help and how my identity is like a black woman educator help with some of my other light blue.

03:55 Hornet, stings feel comfortable about representation things and so it doesn't matter cuz I didn't have a black. I think I have one black teacher at my undergrad and she taught history. I actually hated history by end of taking to her classes at the same time because I kind of overlap each other. So I was like, I was studying at the same time we get it matters. And so I think I knew I want to be educated here when I found out that I could get a PhD and teach college students other. Oh my God, this is exactly what I want to do. I don't want you kids I want each and so you applying to grad school and education Psychology programs and Joint program. So is exactly what I want and I didn't want something that was super psyched heavy. So I think sometimes like people can be so I know that chemistry bed where it's like three months of a chemist and I don't think we're like that. I think you guys are all

04:47 In la-la land sometimes because I mean I feel as a scientist. I see things in black and white and y'all just see Fifty Shades of Grey and I don't see that isn't it? Depends? How many context matters what you say that in every I don't know. So if you think about a chemical reaction somewhere that what you say then every contest I can every environment the chemical reaction have process of the exact same way. No le chatelier's principle, but I know give him whatever contacts I know what will go well a lot of psychology is not connect a lot to figure out what time it is. Then I can tell you how it's going to go down, you know, I mean so and or and or what would you change or definitely do it again?

05:41 I think I don't know. I think I would have came into it's hard to say like I wish I would have came into grad school more confidence. Cuz that's really know how confidence words that have self esteem really works and you have to unified it through life experiences and like that and I would I don't know I would definitely say that mental health the big thing. I wish I had a conversation about mental health with somebody whether that been my undergrad advisor in my undergrad Mentor the old people kind of throw around the words about imposter syndrome, but they don't really teach you how that feels or you know, like there's a I just felt like we didn't talk about meant. Well, I don't remember ever having a conversation with anybody about suicide

06:28 I don't know who you know, they still talk about it. And so but I would say I would definitely do it again, but I think I I wish I had a better conversation about would what organization looks like in terms of structuring like my life in this kind of independent classy. Like I live with my aunt before I let you know and then I live with my parents and so is the first one was really on my own. I think a lot of people have than undergrad but didn't have that Neil go while you do whatever in undergrad. I had it here and after that first year was over just the workload really just kind of sat in and I don't know if it was imposter syndrome, but it was a lot of something fell into depression my second year and I just didn't know what's happening. I didn't even let you know like even being a Psychology major taking abnormal psychology knowing what

07:17 Life depression is supposed to look like I still did not know what the person looks like in me and I think it took just having a really strong Community, you know what I mean and talking to people and talking to other friends like in our circles and realizing was it called when I was like I'm going through the same thing again, and you know, I was talking to somebody and they said this is what it was and that's kind of how I found out. So yeah, like I do I do it again, but I think I change my approach to self care sooner. I think I would I would talk to someone and realize that you don't have to stay with the same advisor cuz I think that you're advising relationship makes a big difference and how your graduates penis goes out. Like I know some people from the beginning have a lovely graduate advisor wonderful, but the other 85% 95 nine five six.

08:09 They do, you know, like they're either stuck with her visor just in this all the relationship, you know, and God bless raccoon for doing the mentorship bits. But when your deathly afraid of your advisor having panic attacks, I don't know about having a sit-down meeting about how you're not make sure you need a ride is really going to help me again. Like I said, I'd have a better conversation about mental health like an honest conversation by the presence of secret. I mean and that's it. That's the part that I like to test about the whole system of Academia find out about it. Like I even know it's frustrating because like I look at my friends who are like in medical school or law school business school, even I know that in four years are getting out they're going to take Step 1. They're going to take Step 2 Step 3, whatever you be a resident to Fellowship something.

09:09 Doctor and they however many extra years, you know should be a specialization but sexier. Yeah, and then they don't say like oh, this is how long it takes. You become a candidate or 6 is how long it takes you to finish your classes or this is what you really need to be a candidate because everybody would qualifications for candidates running for a different people. Have you write six draft? Some people have you write one draft? Right? Nothing not really, but don't like the idea of that some people it's like

09:50 Some advisers who do the work for you to make you become a mechanical. Yes, I more easily than for other people and it's so she was just like just hurry up and write this and so she wrote it and then at the end of the summer and she's like cool just took her papers and it and it and it was financially.

10:18 I'm at my baby still have to be what was it that Michelle Obama said twice as good but sometimes you got to get low in a gutter and

10:34 Pick up with swings and then come back up. You take those love songs by professional approach. You know, I I feel like one of the best friends about grad school has been email snatches.

10:56 The nurse good professional email snacks

11:00 Fifth grade fifth grade weight and if you do not know how to do so, please see this link here all caps are here.

11:23 Oh, yeah, go bounce that. I consider email scratching as a professional clap back your national gathering of your life through the World Wide Web. Well, not even or Wide Web Al Gore's internet. So you smash them say something rude or disrespectful and SunPass you tried to tell you about yourself or is an email in an email. It's really passive aggressive sometimes and what is out of line like it was not even necessary to say that until you come back with an email. That's what you correct. Like what you do in a way that it reads. So professional and eloquent that they have no,

12:11 That they can't dance but they know they left Betty reading that email knowing that I just told you about your life and told you to sit down and don't come for me unless I ask for you.

12:22 Is very bad.

12:35 I would say instead what didn't lead me to apply to graduate school. I remember.

12:42 It was two years ago 2017. I went to DC for Howard homecoming to the my little sister and I was walking down Constitution Ave to go to Nando's penis is the chicken place. It was delicious. So Nando's Chicken delicious.

13:06 And I see this man sitting there reading a newspaper and Asians like he just sitting as if he owns the whole block cuz your people don't read newspapers anymore. And he's just sitting there a black man Petco be dressed in a suit and I was like walking clothes. I think I know him. I think I do him and so I woke up and I realized oh my gosh is dr. Baguio cold. And so growing up in Louisiana and Baton Rouge. I went to summer camp every summer. My dad worked at Southern and I did Summer enrichment programs and Sciences and engineering and dr. Yoko ran in Timbuktu Academy, and I was just like, oh my gosh of all the places I run into him in DC so I know he was just on the corner. I was reading a paper.

13:58 Like what are you doing here? Cuz it go I'm here for a conference and then like asking a long time and I he asked me like, how are you doing? And I was like, well, I'm in grad school. Now. I'm a student at University of Michigan and little guy and then he just started laughing and I was like what's so funny and he was like, you know, that was the plan all along and I was just like, oh my gosh light bulb goes off because you don't realize when it's happening that like you're being conditioned to be something and it's not that like, I knew I wanted to go get a PhD but it's like

14:34 Didn't have an idea that I couldn't so for me. It was just like how I got group around. I live in south, Louisiana. So I've been around white people black people in my parents were immigrants. I'm a first-generation American I've seen difference size of life, but I never really saw that I can't do that because I am the only so I never saw that because the people around me were all like these black people who are educated and representation matters. They were doing things in our communities. They were doing things in our churches are doing our school they were given back and so it was like when it was time for me to graduate college, like I didn't even apply to a job. I didn't even think about my mind to a job. I don't want to work. I didn't have an option to you and I didn't cross my mind or maybe I should apply to a job too because maybe I won't get like I didn't even think like that. It was I'm going to apply to all these grad schools and then I'm going

15:34 Take or I'm going to go and that's what I did and it was like that and I wouldn't even say cuz my dad went to graduate school and he got his PhD in engineering but I wouldn't even say was because of my father because I hated math growing up. He was sick you seen those memes that are popping around and it's just like if Susie had three apples and Tom takes one. How many apples did Susie hat for problem?

16:07 I do math homework on my dad. I was in a car wreck and then everybody will be mad and then you go that way I go that way and I was like, I'm not doing anything right now. I'm going to be an English major.

16:17 And humidity. Do you have another one?

16:35 But yeah, I feel like I have bad experience with like man. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm running from that shit cuz it's not for me, but then I go to this math and science boarding school for high school and

16:48 I kind of wanted to be there but I kind of didn't want to be there but I just knew like okay, I'm going to make the most of this experience here and I was sitting in my chemistry class and dr. Lassiter was my teacher and he starts talking about alchemy and all I'm thinking is what the hell does Alchemy have to do with any of this?

17:08 And he literally goes that modern chemistry as we know it and even just discovering the elements on the periodic table spurned from people trying to use magic to make old and I was just like, oh my gosh, everything is connected like simple things. Like we wouldn't have liked the alkaline series filled out or the halogens if these people weren't trying to find ways to make gold and then it's just like wow. Okay, how can we connect that even more so with things we're doing now and so I got this fell in love with chemistry and then the whole like puzzle piece of me figure out like how much of this stuff I need to make that stuff for like I was saying the word le chatelier's principle. Well in this condition, what way is my reaction going to flow? Is it going to go ride as one of them love is going to stall out with my limiting reagent? How much product am I going to get and it just drew me in Sault College kames my do chemistry and I go through it except what kind of cancer she came out just like

18:08 Kind of things a little bit and sting. I think it's because everything is everything and there's no numbers in organic and that's why it's just like you can't you can't make it make sense. But I think right now in like the phase of our existence like just where we are as the society. I just don't think we don't truly understand it yet. Yeah, there's a little above your head just because like at the University of the point in having organic chemistry is I was almost above our pay grade. Is it bad?

18:52 We haven't figured that out yet. They don't even know. How are ya so like applying a grass? Cuz I was just like I'm going to apply to grad schools, but even still like I apply to chemistry programs and I applied engineering program because like the part of me wanted to do chemical engineering and undergrad but one reason why I didn't major in it was money. My scholarship for undergrad was five years. 5 years. It was for years, but a 3-2 program at my HBCU was

19:32 324 engineering which means three years at my school in 2 years somewhere else. I've heard of that. So most HBO pipeline programs. I'm kind of feel like if your HBCU or some other schools as well. If you don't have a abet certified SOA bed is like the whoever makes the qualifications for your school to be you can grant engineering degrees a bit. And so if your school doesn't have a certified program typically they partner with another school that does so that their students can start their General Studies there and then transfer to the engineering study to finish like the other more involved engineering class. So for me, my scholarship was for years, I knew for years. I will have X amount of dollars, but if I did an engineering program

20:20 You're here to Napa find money cuz other 200 so when you go to the other school scholarship doesn't stay transferring even still so like stay I would have been from Xavier to LSU Davis tuition. Do tuition wise is a lot more than LSU room and board and fees wise that's holding. The ball game. Go to.

20:45 Then it's like well, what if I don't like I hate to say it but like I didn't wish myself to fail but what if I did maintain the standards to keep my scholarship on top of that so it's just like money was a motivation to wear. Like I can finish this four-year chemistry degree and keep my scholarship money and graduate schools an option for me to go explore engineering and that's what I did. I applied to chemistry programs iPod engineering programs and you can further species in Masters first straight through December after they have a candidate finally I did paperwork because for us I wish I could feel the paperwork. You didn't know I think I did go back and do what I think in the signatures. I'm getting my doctorate in May. So we're about that place for me anymore. But it's like I apply to the engineering schools. I was like okay if I get into something

21:40 I'll explore it. And so even in coming to Michigan, I just I did it internship here will summer research opportunity program here before I enrolled and I was just like I'm not coming back to this place cuz I'm from south Louisiana Eye Group in Baton Rouge went under Got a New Orleans, Michigan, Michigan. Ann Arbor small. Yes, it is. Nothing I can do that's in the eat people or backwards. This will be her own your own food we do and I'm so glad that I met you guys my first year because I really do not like I really don't know what I would have done if I hadn't met you guys as like my community and that really is what made her braid my made a broke my graduate schools. Just like when I think about like giving my experiences like what I do it again.

22:33 If I take my friends out of the equation hell, no, I would not do this again on my worst. Enemy. I would not but if I add you guys into the equation I could do this like three more times not saying I want to do it three more times. I don't hear I am thinking I might go to law school.

22:54 I don't know.

23:07 Play that famous by Wesley IP lawyer professional professional somewhere like all food at work. Got a yes, or like if I if I add you guys in? Yes, I would do it again, but I've definitely learned.

23:26 So much about myself in this experience like how you were talking about mental health. I didn't know what mental health was per se granted like looking back. I definitely had bouts of depression. I definitely had like self-confidence issues. I definitely had like

23:45 Weird relationship with food and other people or things but the way they manifested themselves while I was in Graduate School Nashville process a natural process that literally could like I think if I wasn't the person I was and didn't have the family I had in the friends. I have I see how people get driven to Suicide. Yeah. I mean, I don't really break you and I've told so many people I was like, we're at school. It's not just a feeling everything everything about you. You're already what's your degree is? Like if you want to get a masters from applying you got in you already have all the qualifications be Masters student like to have a masters as a PhD student. I truly believe I applied here. I got in there's already enough about me and that you were already PhD students College PCC when I apply to your everything. I need to be a doctors already in me, but there's something about this process is a molding process. It's it's taking you like like

24:45 Taking you down into your smallest element anything that was an insecurity about you before even if it's just exacerbate I can just put it raw like on the table for everybody to see for you to see it. Even if you're not ready to see it and I think that's where it comes from. It's like all these smaller insecurities that you had managed to whatever way that you were managing them before. It's just not enough to go to grad school. You have to figure out new ways to be happy new ways to take care of yourself and just honestly like new ways to grow in. It's like you're evolving. I really like a little cuckoo in process is 1% and it's beautiful and it's a wonderful as that each of the inner crash school was she was also a very young very naive and I feel like just in the home. I have my two years like I'm such a different person and I wouldn't want to be that age again. There's so much about me that I love now. It's always about me that I want to you know, I mean, it's a chance that I was thinking likes my stuff done today. I was like,

25:44 In context is like an old guy that I dated and I was like, you know if I met him today, I would want to say hi. My name is Lydia. How are you doing and bring reduce myself because I am not the same person. I was four years ago. Let alone six months ago.

26:01 Like for real a lot happens in a year cuz I can happen with grad school. It's been like this week was my youngest cousin moved into college.

26:16 Yes, you starting college and all I'm thinking is just like I'm still in college to finish what you're doing higher education. That was a fine. But but still your address cuz I was four.

26:32 Make it make sense for years old and still the learning never ends. So it's like I'm not tired of learning. That's not what time is it? It's not what you scored on the SATs read the GRE or if you have straight A's its are you committed to becoming a lifetime learner or not? We're not do I believe as an educator? Is this the way that I wouldn't know and moving forward in life. That's what kind of that's what keeps me going to cuz I know that moving for my educational the ways that I learned will not be like a wave like it won't be this stressed this pushing me like it's just really like this time to start.

27:32 Anytime I learned so much like just buy my own like, you know, like on Google or whatever I wake up in the morning. I do some reading and stuff random stuff. I just talked to you. That's why I put in a group text about a quantum teleportation and those like quadrix or whatever cuz that's the kind of stuff that comes up on Google because my Google knows me and right into that. It was a Avengers endgame.

27:57 Cookie recipe on how to make a I definitely feel you and I know like me doing this process like I'm not the first in my family to get a PhD, but I don't want to be the last but I don't want to make it seem like even like my own children if have to do I am blessed with children. I don't want them to feel like they have to go down this route know you can

28:35 You can explore yourself and you can I think whatever I think of PhD I don't think of it as like this terminal thing. I think of it as like the feel is so sore have over the French people really pronounced it where you're a master of a subject area. But at the same time, you're still a master of many things so that you've gotten this understanding of the world enough to see where even though you're in this Niche area, you know the role that you play. Yes in that area and how it helps the world progressed and from me and my drive to finish and to like progress like I was talking to my mom last night and I was like, you know what? I'm just trying to do my small part and make the world a better place and then I heal the world make it a better place.

29:35 Hahaha

29:38 But she was like, you're absolutely right though. Like if everybody just did their small part in the world. We'd be doing a lot better than rubies ID, right? Cuz I just worry about tomorrow. But also the more you learn the more you realize how much needs to be done. But you can't do it. All you have to have faith that there are other people taking of their parking lot together when we just take up all our individual parts that will make a collective change like a different places cuz that's how it happened. Reaction. Right? So it's like imagine if I had like a globe of some sort and like I'm just this one spot making change. It's going to take forever for my change to cover completely this fear. But if I'm got my little. You got over there that was no speak a little. We got changed and we're just waiting for a circles to match. We're just waiting for a circle's the edges to connect for the senior pictures.

30:38 My head is he talked about this but they knows because everyone had world. So if you want to get that he wasn't wrong, but I'm just saying like in a sense where like everybody had their role to play to go back and get the Infinity Stones so that they can fix it. We all have a role to fix it. We all got some buddies over there getting the time Stone somebody's over there at what is it warm air pushes me over Cliffs that has somebody that was so yeah, I think cows I just

31:18 Impossible Burgers & Beyond has like a girl disappeared from where I've been and still near I just feel like vegan cheese has a phone. I don't I just came up with vegan cheese. But have you been Detroit Street Filling Station now you haven't eaten.

31:45 That's what gets me through my Ph.D program eating meat. That's a bacon not necessarily bacon butt chicken with pork chop, you know, I watch the video on how to make pork chop. I feel like I'm just going to like keeping it repertoire. Just so like when I watch a movie on my porch. Some like I don't know you

32:08 I guess I don't necessarily want to be a lawyer.

32:18 But rather I think like I don't think I should ever stop expanding my knowledge base and I feel like in wall school ideas brought up and I thought about it and I was just like you I want to be like this International person has a lawyer. I haven't talked to people in law school right now, but that's my plan because of his brain her brain is being washed out by that money. I mean, I don't know but I am like planning till I talk to people in law school now to see like if it's viable now granted I'm going to take a break. Oh, please leave before I do anything cuz I'll be even more something. I'm a backpack from Europe before I go to law school like the rest of them.

33:10 I'll be on that. I feel like I've gotten older there's certain experiences run like I don't get any bonus points for being uncomfortable in the world. You can no bonus points like forever who was like, I don't I don't shower let me just see, you know, take these washcloths these napkins or whatever and just make a shower hanging up a bag. You don't poke some holes in it. No, I mean by I could tell you right now. I appreciate add shower appreciate hot shower and we need to do you need experience to grow into do better and to continue like

33:54 Appreciative appreciative like I could definitely say like in grad school. I've had so many opportunities that have showed me how blessed I am and I'll Loosely even throw the word privileged out there because I feel as though as African American in America. There's very little privileges that I have you but that's all I can say some of the experiences I have has made me feel privileged knowing that I come from a culture. That's so rich in history and like Africa is full of everything you need to survive and live in the world. I remember I was talking to somebody about the African Hibiscus flower and I was just like, oh, you know, if you take the flower leaves and dry them out you can make dye with their you can make a petit biscuit flower is also the national flower of Hawaii. Yeah. So but that I don't know about the Hawaii flower. It's like red what if I can get the color white and animals

34:54 Chemistry like that wear yellow color so the actor in it and then the person I was sending it to you know, they've always said that everything on this planet is edible or anything on this plan is useful. You just have to know how to use it just chemistry. That's just and I think that the experiences that led me to come to graduate school by the experiences that are also allow me to stay to gain more experience is so that when I leave this

35:43 This bubble bubble, but I am merge. I'm just going to buy some and I can apply it to like more uses for the acronym biscuits flour or whatever new flower might pop up when the Honeys when at the Honeys, but the bee stop pollinating I mean figure out something but we got to figure out something and he's always good.

36:21 Oh God, I was already.

36:28 What everybody else would get that?

36:32 I hope so. Please last night listen to this.

36:40 I just came out of nowhere as a good wife.

36:47 I love my mom and my grandma for you.

36:50 I wanna love you, baby.

36:55 Yeah.