Melanie Tubbs and Robert Dow

[00:03] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Hi, my name is Melanie Tubbs I'm 57 years old. The date is October 23rd, 2024. I'm at CSU campus and I'm here with Robert Dow my one small step conversation partner.

[00:17] ROBERT DOW DOW: My name is Robert Dow and I am 77 years old. The date, October 23rd, 2024. I'm at the Columbus State University Yancy center and I'm here with Melanie Tubbs my one small step conversation partner.

[00:40] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: And now I'll read Robert's bio. I trust science so am certain that climate change will have graver consequences than all wars past and present. City councils have the power to overcome climate change, but their policies never prioritize climate.

[00:59] ROBERT DOW DOW: In Melanie's bio is I am fixing to be 57 years old. I have been married for 28 years. For the third time, I have nine grandchildren. My faith is Christian. I have lost my father and my mom is still living at 84. My uncle was a war veteran of World War II, Korean War and was born in October of 1942 and is buried in Tunisia. Most Americans don't even know about this cemetery. I no longer work, but we own a small automotive business in Columbus that doesn't even use a computer.

[01:50] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: All right, so Robert Dow why did you want to participate in one small step conversation?

[01:57] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, I was hoping to have someone like you to tell me your point of view about different subjects, and I just think it's a worthy thing offered by npr.

[02:15] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Tell me a bit about your upbringing. Have you always lived in this area?

[02:19] ROBERT DOW DOW: No, you know, I've lived several places I was born and I lived in Buffalo, New York until I was 16. Still have sentimental feelings about the place, even though people are saying it's not as good as it used to be. And then my family moved down near Chattanooga, Tennessee. So that's where I finished high school and went to the University of Tennessee in Knoxville and took a job in Detroit after that and then moved down here in 1979. How about you?

[02:56] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I have always been from this area, actually. I grew up and went to high school around the Callaway Gardens area. So I was a per se country girl and all of my family pretty much hails from here. So that's. Yeah, that's not much to say about that. I'm from around here and everybody else is too.

[03:16] ROBERT DOW DOW: Nothing wrong with that. No.

[03:21] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Tell me about your.

[03:25] SPEAKER C: Why you wanted to participate.

[03:26] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Oh, I'm sorry. I wanted to participate because I feel like it gives me an opportunity to, number one, meet someone else that may have different beliefs than I do or have a different lifestyle than I Do or you know, just to get to know someone. And I think that the way that you can bring the people together is by having good conversations, even though your beliefs may not be the same. So Robert Dow was there a moment you witnessed or experienced the most influenced your political beliefs?

[04:10] ROBERT DOW DOW: Yes, I have a definite moment and that's when I had a retail shop that I had a lot of people from Fort Benning. Well, actually it's Fort Moore now. Come in. I had a tennis shop and they'd come in to get new rackets or get their rackets strung. And I'd always ask them, this is during the first Iraq War, if they thought we were going to go into Iraq and if they really had weapons of mass destruction. And every officer that came in told me the same thing, we're going in no matter what. Well, that's a little scary to think that instead of waiting for definite proof of whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, our army was going in there regardless. That was not a good feeling that I had at that time. How about you?

[05:13] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: There's not one in particular. I just. It is my belief that we will never know what the government or where someone else. Where there's an active war going on. There's so much that they don't tell us, even if they do answer that question, that we just don't know.

[05:40] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, that coincides with what I just said.

[05:42] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Yes. We just don't know.

[05:44] ROBERT DOW DOW: People didn't know what they were really planning.

[05:46] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: No, no.

[05:50] ROBERT DOW DOW: How about your spiritual beliefs?

[05:53] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I am Christian. I was raised Baptist but then attended a Methodist church. I believe myself as a non denominational. I don't have one certain belief. I mean, of course I believe that there's God and I believe that you should live your life accordingly to the Bible. And I don't, I don't judge anyone else. That's not for me to do. That is only for God to do. So I'm very open to what someone else believes. Even if it's a different faith, that's their faith and that is their choice.

[06:40] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, you know, I, I'm with you on a lot of those points. I always feel like every religion has some core values which are the same, such as not stealing, not murdering, being faithful to your partner. And it doesn't matter which religion you're talking about. As far as my personal beliefs, I'll admit I'm a confirmed atheist. I've taken too many science courses along the way in my education and I do a lot of studying. It seems like throughout history, whenever something is Discovered the importance and the specialness of the human being is diminished. I think of, like, back in the Middle Ages, how they thought that the Earth was the center of the universe, then it was disproven, and then our sun was the center of the universe and that God and us were of the same form. Right now, that seems scientifically speaking and realistically not correct. And so I just feel like we'll never know what formed the universe. And I just rely on science to give us as many answers as they can when they finally discover new things.

[08:07] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Okay. And that's understandable. However, I have in my life experienced several. Several experiences that it could have only been God. I've had dreams that things have occurred after that that no one else knew about except for God. So that's just where my belief in that is.

[08:42] ROBERT DOW DOW: Let me ask you, like, how does your spiritual beliefs affect your political views?

[08:52] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: That's a really good question. Well, I mean, there are certain topics that we could go to. However, I'm not so sure that my. It does have some effect, but it doesn't affect all of what I believe politically. Doesn't necessarily have to do with all that I believe spiritually, if that makes sense.

[09:22] ROBERT DOW DOW: We might be hitting on the same thing in that. To me, when religion and political values are the same, once again, core values. In other words, religion says, thou shall not steal. What does politics say thou shall not steal? Well, you're going to jail if you do correct. Murder, whatever. I think it's great when you have all religions matching up with what the politicians want to prioritize in our country. So it's back to core values. Get as many as you can and try to just compromise on things where compromise is required.

[10:09] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Absolutely. Was there any moment when you felt misunderstood by people who have a different political belief from you?

[10:17] ROBERT DOW DOW: Oh, always. One thing about my raising is we'd always have arguments, discussions at the family dinner table. And so I'm willing to discuss things and argue without fomenting hatred or, you know, I just like to discuss things. And sure, when I disagree with someone, it's too bad if I can't convince them to have the same feelings I do about things. But, you know, I accept everyone is respected to have. It must be respected to have their own decisions. And that applies to politics.

[10:58] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I agree. I recently had a friend on Facebook who is on the other side of the politics that I am, and it led to a unfriending, and we'd been friends for a very long time.

[11:15] ROBERT DOW DOW: It shouldn't happen that way.

[11:17] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: It should not. And it has since resolved itself. And she has since apologized for trying to make me believe something that she believes. So we did come to a mutual agreement that she believes what she believes, I believe what I believe. And just because I post something on Facebook does not mean that she has to comment or start trouble. You just, you know, if someone posts something I don't agree with, I just don't comment. I keep scrolling. I mean, you know, there's choices there. And I'd asked her several times not to do that anymore because some of them were just not kind to some other people that I know. And I had warned her a couple of times that that was going to happen if she kept on doing that. And it did happen. I have. Since we have become friends again on the social media.

[12:19] SPEAKER C: I'm curious, I know you said they apologized, but can you say more about how it resolved itself and initiative that was taken?

[12:27] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I can. So politics is one thing. She made a very. I made a post about the people in North Carolina and the hurricane and how much trouble they were in, and she brought politics into it. And I did not feel like that that was the place or the time to have a political view, because I don't care who you are, those people needed help. And no matter what your beliefs are, they just needed help. And that was the whole purpose of. And I told her that I felt like she had crossed a line, that that was not the time to be making a political statement. And that's when I unfriended her. And she. Therefore, she ended up coming back and agreeing with me that that was not the time nor the place, and that she was very sorry and that our friendship over the years had meant a lot more than letting political views get in the way. And so she apologized and I apologized, and we. We're still the same friends we were before. She's just learned not to make any more comments like that.

[13:41] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, I agree with you because, well, tragedy brings people together. Correct. And that certainly was a tragedy. And once again, it's like core values. Let's take care of getting the fallen trees out of the road, let's take care of getting the water out of the House, that sort of thing. Politics should have nothing to do with it. And I think I got to give our government credit for. They made sure they stayed clear of making it political. They just said, we are sending all the help we possibly can. So that was good to hear on the radio. I was wondering now, since you've lived in Columbus longer than me, of course I'VE been here quite a while. What do you think of Columbus in general? You think they're doing pretty well as a city?

[14:36] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I think there's been some major improvements. There certainly has been an influx of new development. However, we have a terrible, terrible violence and gun problem and gang problem in this town. How to correct that, I'm not sure. I don't know if they're not sure or if they just don't have the manpower. I mean, there's just so many different things that go into that. But there is a terrible problem with that. And it used to, you know, everybody says, oh, it's the south side. No, it's not. It's. It's the north, south, east and west. I mean, it's happening everywhere. So therefore, the people are trying to move to Harris County. But it won't be long before it's there too, because where there's more people, there's more violence. Sure, that's just the way it happens.

[15:32] ROBERT DOW DOW: Yeah, well, I know what you're saying, but, you know, I always draw on my psychology degree for trying to understand things like that. And the older I get and I see how kids grow up according to who their parents are or what the parents did, the parents have such an impact on how their child ends up being as a kid, a teenager, an adult. It's just. It just ceases to amaze me. The older I get, the more I see that is the main issue. I'm lucky with my business. I'm around some very poor people and some very in between and very rich. And I see what the differences are. And there are some very poor people that have the same values and raise their kids the same way as no matter how much money someone else has. But I see quite often that the only reason that their kids don't turn out right is how the parent is not giving the child enough love, not enough time, not enough education and discipline. And that will cause someone to end up having the idea of maybe I should hurt someone, or it doesn't matter if I steal something. It's just the parents have the ability to make that child turn into a winner or a loser. And that's why I'm glad that there's some countries that are jailing the parents for the child's behavior. And finally that idea has come to America. And I think that's an excellent way to solve the problem and to recognize that the parents have that much impact on the child, even when he becomes an adult.

[17:34] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: And I do agree to that to a certain extent. However, I will tell you that I have two sons, one that I birthed and one that I did not, but that I raised. My son that I raised that is not biologically mine has been a drug addict for most of his life. And it was not because of how he was raised. That was his choice. He made choices and he made the wrong choices. But sometimes that's not necessarily the case because sometimes they can be raised correctly, they can be given values. My other son has children. Both of them have children, have nine grandchildren. One has six, one has three. So sometimes that's just not the case. You know, they once, once they get to a certain age and they have to make those choices for their self. They also have to just use common sense and make the correct choice. So that's just my. I do agree with you and you can do all that you can do, but then sometimes it's still not enough.

[18:58] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, you know, I can't say I have an answer to everything. I just see a general trend. Correct concerning that. But getting back to Columbus, I'm impressed. How Broadway, that's kind of the downtown nighttime activity. It's just impressive. And I've had some of my siblings come into town and they're impressed by the restaurants, the bar, just the lively nature of downtown Columbus. It's really. It's really good. And I just think I like it. Of course, this is just personal for its size. It's not too big, it's not too small. But I'm very frustrated, though, with what the government's doing with our money. I have some rental property and they've jacked the Property tax up 40% in one year, which is crazy. And you know, it's very frustrating that the federal government gets blamed for the inflation. But actually Joe Biden and whoever the federal government is, but he represents it at the moment, did not tell the city of Columbus to jack up property tax 40%. I feel bad that the federal government gets blamed for inflation to too far of an extent because it's just human greed. When you hear that corporations are making record profits, that has nothing to do with the government telling them jack your prices up so that you make more money even ever before. Well, that's causing inflation. The corporation has no business getting record profits when we're suffering with inflation. If anything, if they had any kind of moral values, they would say, let's bring our prices down to fight this inflation. That has nothing to do with our federal government. And same with here in Columbus. We're building a new government center where we have what a 10 story one @ present. Nothing wrong with it structurally. And they've raised our sales tax, they've raised our property tax, and now they're building a new government center which is totally unnecessary. And it's just once again, who's getting blamed for the inflation? Well, I never hear of anyone accusing human, just human behavior. I never hear them blaming the corporation, I never hear them blaming the local governments. But they're more responsible for inflation than the federal government. It's just directing our wrath at the wrong entity. And it just, to me it's just very clear where it's coming from. It's just people like you and I, it's like now they've increased the utility bills, like we're paying more for our water, more for our electricity. And as I say, it's the corporations and the state and county governments that are causing the inflation way more than anything that our federal government has put into action.

[22:43] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Well, just on a side note, our government building has flooded repeatedly, it's full of mold and it is probably time for a new place. That's just all I have to say about that.

[23:00] ROBERT DOW DOW: Yeah, that's hard.

[23:01] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: So let's see, is there an historic event that has occurred in your lifetime that changed the way you viewed America?

[23:18] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, like I say, the Iraq war, which was not necessary, and recently the Mideast conflict, it's just terrible. It makes us such hypocritical to have us allowing Israel to be armed with our weaponry when I have a podcast and I had to do a lot of homework for it. And so as far as the, the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israel, well, the Jewish population, if anyone had studied the history of that conflict, they would side with Palestine. World War I, until World War I, just to make this quick, the Ottoman Empire ruled Palestine for 400 years. They never had conflict between the minority groups and it was a Muslim empire, but they had Christian and Jewish minorities. And as long as those minorities gave loyalty to the Ottoman Empire and paid their taxes, they were protected. They weren't allowed to have conflicts between each other, they weren't allowed to have conflicts with the Muslim greater population or each other, the Christian and Jewish for 400 years. What changed that? World War I. Britain was scared about losing the war. They wanted all the support they could get. So they promised some very political leaders, the political leaders that were Jewish in the British government, that they would help them establish a Jewish nation in Palestine someday. Well, without the protection of the Ottoman Empire and with the word out that now Britain is ruling Palestine after World War I and that they're going to let the Jewish nation be built within Palestine. That caused a lot of just hatred and just being spooked and paranoid about what's going to happen when that occurs. And so they had riots, violence throughout the 1920s. And on top of that, the League of Nations once again restated that Jewish nation would be someday put in Palestine. And this is when The Palestine was.93% of the land was owned by Muslims. And they're being told that someday they're going to lose their land. And we. If you just read the history, Jews were killing the British soldiers who were trying to maintain peace in Palestine. And that's why Britain eventually gave up. In 1947, they gave it up. It was too difficult and too costly for the British government to maintain peace in Palestine because the Jews were migrating there and wanting their own nation. And so then to make matters worse, the UN split, the partition of Palestine. It got way out of hand then because they gave the Jewish people too much of the land, too much of the coastline, too much just territory when the population was still mostly Muslim. Well, that was just going to cause all the problems we've had since then. And Palestine has been occupied illegally by Israel. Palestine has all these restrictions by the Israeli government. Palestine has had Jewish settlements put on their land all within the last few decades. Why is it that we keep hearing on the news that the Palestinians are the bad guys? They've had more right to defend their land for the last several decades, much more than what you hear on the news that Israel has its right to defend itself. Palestine, unfortunately, has no army. They are desperate. They are doing whatever they can to defend themselves and the world is not helping them. So I'm sorry, but I. I hate to say all this, but.

[28:03] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: And that's okay. I. Okay.

[28:08] ROBERT DOW DOW: It's okay.

[28:08] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I might get on one in a minute. I feel like there is stuff happening elsewhere, but first and foremost, we are Americans and we need to take care of our own people and people in this country, especially our veterans that are living homeless on the streets while we are giving millions and millions and billions of dollars to other countries when we're not even taking care of our own people who fought for our freedoms. And I'm very, very much. And some of that goes back to my uncle and losing him, of course. I never knew him, but my father was 10 years old when his family got the telegram. And I have all that. I have his purple heart. I have the telegram, I have.

[29:08] ROBERT DOW DOW: All.

[29:08] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Of his documentation from where he was Buried. And for the longest time, all we knew was in Western Europe. I was fortunate enough about two years before my father passed away to find out where his brother was buried. And most people do not even know that there is a cemetery in Tanzania. I pulled his military records and found out exactly where he was buried. I contacted the cemetery and asked them if anybody there could send me any information. I was lucky enough that a lady from Amsterdam had a boyfriend in Tanzania and was going to visit him. And she visited the cemetery for me. She sent me a pamphlet. She videoed and sent pictures of his grave marker. Wow. The jewelry on my dad's face was priceless because up until that time, and he was. Well, he was 86 at this time, and no one in the family knew where my uncle was. I wish that I had not found out so late so that my dad could have went and visited that grave. But for just that, no one knows that there is a World War II cemetery over in Tanzania. It just blows my mind.

[30:42] ROBERT DOW DOW: Wow. Well, I'm with you on the veterans of our country. They're our guardians. I mean, without them, we would not exist. And I'm with you. To think that so many of them gave their lives or maimed permanently, they don't get the attention they deserve or the thanks, the gratitude that they deserve.

[31:15] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I agree.

[31:16] ROBERT DOW DOW: Yeah, it's terrible.

[31:21] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: So, I guess how are you feeling about the upcoming election?

[31:27] ROBERT DOW DOW: It's scary. It's scary. I don't want to get too political, but it's just, you know, it just. I don't know if I'm allowed to say what my feelings are about that, but I just hope that we have Harris win the election because she represents the truth and hope, whereas Trump is just inveterate liar. He just represents lies and hatred. And, you know, that's all I can say. And one thing, I have a lot of friends, and once again, I never lose friends over politics or religion or. And I just refuse to lose a friend. So I talk to these people that are my friends and associates, and they don't agree with me. But it's mostly what I find that I think, and this made a big effect on my life, is that the more you know about an issue, the more intelligent your conclusions and decision making can be. That's why education will train you to think in a logical way. It'll train you to not have an opinion based on anything else but reality. And I think the best part of education is stressing that you must know reality to make a logical and correct decision about anything. And if you don't do your homework to find out what reality is, then you're just guessing or believing or making an opinion rather than knowing what the decision is and that it is correct.

[33:34] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Well, I'm definitely not a Biden Harris fan. I feel like we already have facts on what Trump can do. He did it for four years. Is he mean? Is he arrogant? Yes. Is. Does he act crazy sometimes? Yes. But I would rather have that than war inflation. I feel like Biden and Harris has had four years to do what they needed to do and frankly, it just, it just didn't fit the bill. So I, I just hope whoever gets in there does right by our country. And that's all that I want from a president, no matter who it is. I feel like we only have two choices. Would I have liked a third choice? Yes, but we don't get a third choice. So we have to pick between the two. We have. And of the two we have, and the, and the record and the facts of what the two have done, one for me just outweighs the other. It's just that simple for me.

[34:47] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, you know, no one will know for sure till November 5th.

[34:52] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Yes. And I'm a little worried about that also. It's going to be very interesting. And if I did not say that I haven't stockpiled a few things and just the uncertainty of it all, I just want to make sure my family's taken care of. If, for whatever happens.

[35:15] SPEAKER C: Can you say more about that? Like what, what you're envisioning and like worst case scenario?

[35:22] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Just like I think. Yes, worst case scenario. I think if Harris is elected, then there's going to be so much uproar and I wish that that was not so. I do. But I think there's going to be so much uproar that there's going to be some type. And believe me, my husband has told me I'm probably like part conspiracy theorist, but I just feel like something big is going to happen regardless of who is elected and that we, we just need to make sure we're prepared for our families.

[36:06] SPEAKER C: Question.

[36:06] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Okay.

[36:07] SPEAKER C: Do you feel like if Trump were. Was elected, it's a similar.

[36:12] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Yes, same kind of up. Yes, I do. So I feel like no matter which way we go here, we're gonna be damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[36:23] SPEAKER C: And same type of uproar.

[36:25] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Correct.

[36:26] SPEAKER C: Okay.

[36:27] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: And that's what I'm just not sure of because you, you never know what, how people are gonna act when they don't get what they want. And people that don't get what they want get angry. And when anger starts, then the craziness starts. And then it's the craziness that I'm worried about from either side. It's not just one or the other, it's from either side because we both have people on both sides that are just, just beating it in the ground. And whatever happens, those people are just not going to be happy. I mean, whatever happens, there's, there's going to be some very upset people on either side. Okay, so what is something you'll take from this experience?

[37:30] ROBERT DOW DOW: Oh, from like what you were talking about?

[37:32] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Yes.

[37:32] ROBERT DOW DOW: Well, you know, I just look at, I try to be outside of the box rather than involved in it. And you look at when Hillary lost the election, she had more votes as far as the number of votes than Trump, but there was no. No storming the Capitol by the Democrats. The Democrats accepted it. Al Gore, when he lost to Bush and it was down to the voting in Florida, he did not create hatred and protests. He accepted it. Hillary accepted it. Trump got all his warlike white racial groups, like Proud Boys going and storming and costing you and I taxpayers over $10 million to repair all the damage that his followers caused. And that was anti Democratic. That was a riot. That was an insurrection. The Democrats have had similar situations where they could have had the same things happen, but that's not their nature. That's not American to have. What Trump did, he was actually trying to overthrow the government and remain as president. That is not constitutional. How anyone thinks that someone that does that can be trusted. And here's something like I told you, if you don't have an education, you don't know about. When Trump was in office, he fired every investigator, every person who oversaw every agency. He fired them so that there was no one checking on the military, no one checking on the agriculture, no one checking on water pollution. He just fired all the federal people in charge of overseeing agencies so that everyone got to do what they want. Breaking laws, as far as environment goes, as far as educational values. He wants to do away with the Department of Education. He likes that because if people aren't educated, they'll listen to him. If they are educated, they'll listen to the truth.

[40:15] SPEAKER C: When she asked what you'll take away from the experience, she met up the conversation.

[40:19] ROBERT DOW DOW: Yes.

[40:20] SPEAKER C: Not of the specific topic.

[40:23] ROBERT DOW DOW: Oh, I'm sorry.

[40:24] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: That's okay. But just for sake, who do you think's been running our country the last year? Well, of course President Biden how we've all established that he's not mentally capable of doing that.

[40:40] ROBERT DOW DOW: Wait, you're saying there was no ability of his to rule? You think, like, he was absolutely, like, absent?

[40:54] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: I believe that he was there physically. I do not believe he was there mentally. So someone else had to be making decisions and taking care of things. And I just don't believe that that was Harris. She was her. One of her jobs was to take care of our border. And she's let in millions and millions and millions of people who got cell phones, who got $3,500 checks, who got a place to live. In fact, a lot of the hotels in New York City were taken over by them putting the illegals in there. And now we have a problem in North Carolina and Florida, and there's no FEMA money because all of it was allotted. Not all of it. A lot of it was allotted to illegals that came into this country illegally. And now we can't take care of our own people. That's just my thought on that. But I have gotten a lot out of this, and it is always very interesting to sit down and talk to people with different views, whether I agree with those views or not.

[42:04] SPEAKER C: I'm curious. One of the last questions is something that's been bringing you joy lately. So I'll give you each.

[42:12] ROBERT DOW DOW: Okay, tell me what's. What's been bringing you some joy lately?

[42:19] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: My grandchildren. They're everything. I have one who is. My oldest one is 23 years old. He's married. He's in the military. He's at Fort Hood or whatever you call it now, since they've changed all the names. I don't even know. So he's doing his part to defend our country. He did that so that his wife could. She just recently graduated from the University of Tennessee. They're actually from. He lives in Knoxville. The rest of the time, when he's not in the military and go Volvo, he's not. Right. And I did go to that graduation, and it was something else. So I'm very proud of him. And then the baby is three years old. Number nine is three years old. I tend to call them by their numbers just because it's easier sometimes, but they bring me joy and they bring me hope for this country. They bring me hope, but they also bring me great concern for what they may have to endure during their lifetime after I'm gone. I do sometimes wonder about that.

[43:36] ROBERT DOW DOW: That's a good point.

[43:38] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: And what brings you joy lately?

[43:40] ROBERT DOW DOW: That's where my concern about climate change comes in. And my joy lately has been that I have planted 20 oak trees. To me, the global warming, the climate change, there's a simple solution that people just don't take advantage of. I ask everyone, what climate change did we have before America was inhabited by white man? Well, no one seems to remember that the United States was total forest. Land from the Mississippi river to the Atlantic Ocean, complete forest. And of course, much of the west of the Mississippi was forest. And this is true of every continent. There was nothing but trees. And that's why mammals, and that's why animals could. Could evolve, because there became, thanks to plant life, enough oxygen in our atmosphere so that people like you and me can survive. And all we have to do to reverse climate change is get back to planting forests, which is getting more difficult because of all the droughts and the floods. You can't grow a tree without water. We. You can't grow a tree when it's being just destroyed by hurricanes and floods. But it's. I'm just getting joy from doing what I can. I can't save the Earth, but I can save a little part every time I plant an oak tree. And I'm fortunate I have some land which I can use for that purpose. And if every person could plant 10 oak trees, we would reverse climate change, which is a real thing.

[45:47] MELANIE TUBBS TUBBS: Thank you.