Mia Pine and Elissa Pine

[00:06] ALYSSA PINE: My name is Alyssa Pine, and I'm 55 years old. Today is July 10, 2024, and we're in Brattleboro, Vermont, and I am here with my mother.

[00:19] MIA PINE: And my name is Mia Pine. I am 85 years of age. Today is July 10, 2024, and I'm in Brattleboro with my daughter.

[00:31] ALYSSA PINE: Well, it's so fun to be here with you, mom. Yeah, we've been long time StoryCorps listeners.

[00:37] MIA PINE: Absolutely. Forever and ever.

[00:40] ALYSSA PINE: So I thought we would talk a little bit about your life, your 85 years here. So shall we start in the early years? Tell me a little bit about your childhood.

[00:51] MIA PINE: Oh, I had a great childhood. Two brothers and a sister and a great mother and father and lived outside of New York City. It was just. It was the fifties. That's all I have to say. It was the fifties. Everything was wonderful. We had great neighbor kids. We played all the time, all summer long, and the neighbors stayed the same. As long as I lived on that road, no one moved out, no one moved in, so it was very stable. Kids were all around, so.

[01:23] ALYSSA PINE: So it was the fifties, but it was also the forties. Right? Because you were young and during World War Two.

[01:28] MIA PINE: Yes. Yes.

[01:29] ALYSSA PINE: What was that like? What was it?

[01:31] MIA PINE: I hate to say it, but I actually had very fond memories of world War Two. My dad was in the navy. My mother had two, three children, and we saved everything. We saved string, we saved bacon fat, we saved gum wrapper, tin foil, and she took it down to every store that would take them back for the war effort. We had victory garden with our neighbors, and we put the curtains down at night because it was like an air raid warning. And she had a flag. There was one flag and one star because she had one person in the war. It was just as a child, it was. It's a wonderful time.

[02:13] ALYSSA PINE: Do you think it was hard for Grandma?

[02:14] MIA PINE: I think it was very hard for her.

[02:15] ALYSSA PINE: Did you ever see her cry about it?

[02:17] MIA PINE: Never. But she always tell us we would take turns sleeping in her bed at night when my dad was gone. And that was, I think, was good for her, but it was also good for us, too.

[02:26] ALYSSA PINE: So you'd rotate?

[02:27] MIA PINE: We'd rotate. My brother, my sister and myself, my other brother. It was a wonderful, very stable time, even though my dad wasn't there. But he'd come home every now and then, and we'd get in the old station wagon, go up to the Croton, New York train station, meet him once we got up there one time, and all four of us came down with chicken pox. So that was not a happy time for my dad to be home. But we, by and large, it was just memorable times.

[02:59] ALYSSA PINE: Just in the fifties. I mean, my classic idea of the fifties is sock hops and drag races. Did you ever drag race?

[03:08] MIA PINE: Yes, just once or twice down the aqueduct. It was like the rebel without a cause, but we didn't go over any cliff. But it was wonderful, too, because every kid had a car. Every guy had a car, and he fixed his own car, which you could. In those days, they all worked on their cars. They all could have been mechanics forever. They were just wonderful. They kept their cars up. It was just, you know, if you had. Everybody had a guy with a date and had a car at that time.

[03:38] ALYSSA PINE: And when you were young like that, what did you think you would do with your life? Like, what was your plan?

[03:43] MIA PINE: I didn't have a plan. I didn't. I didn't have a plan until I got out into the end of high school, and I knew I had to do something, go to college, and I didn't know what to do, and I didn't really think, like a lot of kids do now that their horizons are so wide. Mine seem very narrow. I'd be a teacher, a secretary or something like that, or retail person. I never thought bigger than that. So the biggest I thought was a teacher, and that's what I did. And I'm glad I did that, because it kept me home with my kids in the summers, which was really on weekend or holidays and stuff. But, yeah, I wish I'd grown up in these days, because I think there would have been many more options I would have been aware of.

[04:28] ALYSSA PINE: And what's something like, if you look back, like, maybe I could have been an architect, or. What do you think? You.

[04:35] MIA PINE: I would have tried something. I was so scared to try anything. You know, everything seems so planned out. Everybody. The kids had, you know, they were going to go and get a PhD, or, you know, some kind of. Kept going to school or something, but I didn't have that, and I didn't think far enough, and I didn't open myself up to. I didn't think there were any options except a few, and that's my own problem. I could have thought, but I never. I was always afraid to think out of the box until I got older.

[05:06] ALYSSA PINE: So when you look at your grandkids.

[05:08] MIA PINE: Oh, I'm so proud of them. Oh, my gosh, I'm just so proud of them. They've done. They're doing wonderful things, as have you done wonderful things.

[05:17] ALYSSA PINE: Thanks, mom.

[05:18] MIA PINE: I'm proud of them because they're doing things to help the environment. And I hope we older people wake up to what's going on before it's too late. But I have great respect for what they're all doing.

[05:31] ALYSSA PINE: So back to you. In the fifties, when is the first time you came to Vermont?

[05:37] MIA PINE: We came in 1954. My parents found an ad somewhere for a cabin up in Newport, which is on the canadian border. And it was right on Lake Memphremagog. And it was, I think, $100 a week, and there was no interstate, so it took us two days to get up there. And we stopped at Brattleboro, and we stopped on Western Avenue, and there was a wonderful little inn. A couple there, an old couple, had no children. And they took people in and they took us in. They only took us in in my life four different times, two up and two down. And I still remember them fondly. I see their house is gone. The interstate took their house, but I can see them. And I just love, I love Vermont, and my parents love Vermonthe so it's always had a special, and I don't know what it is. I do not know what it is. Get over that border in 91 and there's something in the air. It happens. I know I'm home, even though I'm not home. I just, there's something the state has that I've never seen in any other state we've ever lived in or visited.

[06:49] ALYSSA PINE: So we have a photo of you when you're 14.

[06:52] MIA PINE: Yes.

[06:52] ALYSSA PINE: And you are on a beach towel, and you are looking very beautiful and you're with a young man and you're playing cards and there's a radio there. Can you tell me a little bit about that beautiful photo we have?

[07:10] MIA PINE: That was the first time I met my later to be father, my soon to be husband. And we were, his parents came up every year. And so we, we're the same age and we were playing and we just, I still have the deck of cards, but, yeah, it was a special time. And for everybody, there was a beach and it was a lovely lake. Still a lovely lake. So it was a joyous summer that I met someone I really liked, and he would come down to visit us. He lived in Poughkeepsie, and we lived down near, outside of New York City.

[07:49] ALYSSA PINE: You won't say Scarsdale, will you?

[07:51] MIA PINE: No, I don't like to say it.

[07:52] ALYSSA PINE: What's your problem with Scarsdale?

[07:54] MIA PINE: I just don't like being from there. We lived on the wrong side of whatever tracks there are down there. But I never felt comfortable in that town. And I've only gone back once to see my old house, and that was more than enough. My life there was encapsulated in that wonderful little town in my street. I mean, in my school. My high school was wonderful, but the rest of it I don't have any use for.

[08:22] ALYSSA PINE: So did it feel like a snobby?

[08:25] MIA PINE: It was very snobby.

[08:26] ALYSSA PINE: Very snobby.

[08:27] MIA PINE: Very snobby. I remember it happened to me. My best friends were always jewish kids. I just loved them. Jewish girls, jewish guys. The humor always got me, and they weren't allowed in the clubs, you know, in fact, when I graduated from high school. No. And we went back for our 50th reunion, and we had it in the Scarsdale country club. And the jewish people that I grew up with were finally able to sit with me at a table and enjoy that time. They probably were years before that, but I hadn't been back. But, you know, it just was just. It was snobby. And for what, you know, and when.

[09:03] ALYSSA PINE: You say you were on the wrong side of the tracks, what do you mean by that?

[09:07] MIA PINE: My father didn't have a big career. He had a printing company in white plains with his brother. All these people drove down to New York, down to the station, took the train into New York all the time. The dads were lawyers and doctors and corporate people and, you know, suited up people all the time. And my dad wasn't like that. We didn't live like that, and I didn't ever want to live like that. Although my best friend since second grade, I met. And she was one of those. She wasn't snobby, but her family was. But she was wonderful. And she just passed away this November. And we've been best friends for all those many years.

[09:50] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah, I think we did the math, and it was, what, 78 years or something?

[09:55] MIA PINE: We were in the same grade from second grade all through high school. All the classes, everything. And then we remained friends the rest of our life. So it was wonderful.

[10:06] ALYSSA PINE: So you also went up to Vermont another time, and that was two years later.

[10:11] MIA PINE: Two years later. And then we got really kind of more serious. And he. Gordon graduated the following year, and I didn't. I graduated in 61. 62. He graduated 61 from high school and he went to Penn.

[10:27] ALYSSA PINE: You didn't know, was it? No, that was college. You graduated 61.

[10:31] MIA PINE: I'm sorry, 56. He graduated from high school. 57. I graduated from high school. You're right. I'm sorry. And I'd go down when I graduated from high school. I'd go down and visit him and stuff like that. And then we kind of. I met people at Yale, and he met people, and we just sort of forgot each other. And until one fall game at the Yale bowl, Penn was playing Yale, and I went with my boyfriend, and I saw this guy rolling down, literally rolling down the Yale bowl, which is really a steep place. And it turned out to be your dad. It wasn't your dad then, but he was my boyfriend previously. So I ditched my boyfriend and I picked up with dad, and that never stopped from then.

[11:25] ALYSSA PINE: So you thought that was a good look?

[11:27] MIA PINE: Yeah, I thought it was a great look. Right. He's drunk out of his mind. He's falling all over. He took me to one of the houses at Yale to eat dinner. He said, you're going to love the ham. It was roast beef. You know, he had no idea what he was doing, but there was something about him. I just attached to him in every single way. So that's didn't. That was. That was the test. I guess he made it through that one.

[11:51] ALYSSA PINE: So he was down at college at Penn?

[11:54] MIA PINE: Yes.

[11:54] ALYSSA PINE: And you were going to.

[11:55] MIA PINE: I was going to. In New Haven. I was going to New Haven teachers College at that point. It's a different name now, but.

[12:02] ALYSSA PINE: And where were you living when you went to school?

[12:04] MIA PINE: I commuted. I lived with an aunt because we couldn't afford. But they didn't have a dorm there until the second year, and then we couldn't afford only one term at a dorm. And then I stayed back with my. I commuted with my. From my aunt's house.

[12:18] ALYSSA PINE: And what did you choose to study?

[12:21] MIA PINE: Special ed. I liked special ed, and that's what I ended up doing for 23 years or so.

[12:29] ALYSSA PINE: So you and dad reunite when he's rolling down the Yale bowl.

[12:33] MIA PINE: Yep.

[12:34] ALYSSA PINE: And then for the next couple of years, you went down to Penn.

[12:39] MIA PINE: Penn, yep.

[12:40] ALYSSA PINE: What was that like?

[12:41] MIA PINE: Oh, it was great. That was great. I mean, the fraternity houses were really treated their dates like they were really special. I mean, they had dining room tables, cloths on the dining room tables, and they had a plans for you. And it was clean and neat. And we went down there many, many years later, and you had your feet stuck to the floor. There was beer all over. There was picnic tables. Oh, it was just, I mean, if I were a girl nowadays, I wouldn't go there. It was just like, you're going into a slummy place. So that was, you know, we had the better times. I think they were really treated well. They always gave you a gift with the insignia of the fraternity on it, a little box or something. It was just really special times.

[13:31] ALYSSA PINE: So you would go down for a specific dance or something?

[13:34] MIA PINE: Yeah, we'd go to Skimmer weekend. That was a weekend they had on the side of the Schuylkill river, and everybody wore skimmer hats and jumped into the river and stuff. Stupid stuff, but it was fun.

[13:48] ALYSSA PINE: Did you take the train down there?

[13:50] MIA PINE: Yes.

[13:51] ALYSSA PINE: And so you were getting serious? I mean.

[13:56] MIA PINE: Oh, very seriously.

[13:56] ALYSSA PINE: In those days, people got married pretty young.

[13:58] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[13:59] ALYSSA PINE: So you were. You guys already talking about marriage?

[14:02] MIA PINE: Yeah, we were. He graduated in 60. 60. I graduated 61. And then he went into the army reserves and I finished up college. And then we got back together and we just. He asked my dad. My dad, sure, you know, fine, because he knew him for his whole life. And then we decided to get married and we did.

[14:26] ALYSSA PINE: And what time of year did you get married?

[14:29] MIA PINE: Well, he was. I have actually no organized religious faith. He happens to be a Lutheran. And the lutheran church at that time in the sixties, made you go through certain lessons and you couldn't get married during Lent and all that. So we couldn't get married April vacation. So he got three day weekend in February, the coldest February in 19, 61, 20 below zero. And all we had was family. So thank God they came. I don't think friends would have done it, but family had to. But, yeah.

[15:06] ALYSSA PINE: And then where did you spend your honeymoon in February?

[15:10] MIA PINE: In his apartment. He has his brother's apartment in Greenwich village. We had a second hand MG, and we went right down there and we forgot any wood, so we had no fire in his fireplace. He had a fireplace. He had no bed. We had a thing on the floor. It was. It was meager.

[15:32] ALYSSA PINE: Well, I guess there's body heat, right?

[15:36] MIA PINE: It was still a great weekend.

[15:38] ALYSSA PINE: And then you went right back to work. You were teaching at that time?

[15:42] MIA PINE: He was teaching that time, and he was working in New York City, and we were living outside in Scarsdale. I had an apartment for a little while. Yeah. So. And then we ended up having. Getting pregnant with your sister. And he was. Gordon was just changing jobs. He had been working for a publishing company and he left that to take. This was a college traveling job out in Kansas City. But it was coming right when your sister was going to be born. We were both afraid that they wouldn't hire him or they'd fire him if they knew we were pregnant and all this stuff. So I stayed home with my mom and had the baby and he flew out there and got us organized, and we got in trouble because they were mad that they didn't tell it, that we didn't tell them we were young and we just didn't know what was going to happen.

[16:39] ALYSSA PINE: So did you have to hide your pregnancy?

[16:41] MIA PINE: Oh, yeah. From teaching? I did. I had to have it because I would have been fired. We organized that down to the day if we could, because they would have fired me if they'd known I was pregnant.

[16:54] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. When we were talking about coming here, I was thinking that dad's had a lot of jobs.

[17:01] MIA PINE: He has. He has?

[17:02] ALYSSA PINE: Yes, he has. What do you. Why do you think he's had so many jobs in his life?

[17:08] MIA PINE: Well, the early ones were when you got out of college, a friend or family gave you a job, and that was okay, to get a better job and, you know, make a little more money and be a little more interesting job. And he was good at his work. He was very good at figures and facts and things like that. So he took interesting jobs.

[17:32] ALYSSA PINE: So did it make you nervous that he was switching jobs or you felt confident?

[17:36] MIA PINE: Yeah, I felt confident. I mean, he didn't do it until he had. He didn't change a job until he had a job.

[17:43] ALYSSA PINE: Ok, so it wasn't like he was losing jobs.

[17:45] MIA PINE: No, no, no.

[17:45] ALYSSA PINE: Having to find another job. And so when Kristin was three weeks, you guys moved?

[17:51] MIA PINE: We flew out. I flew out to Kansas City and started. We had a little apartment there, which I loved. It was a wonderful little town. I loved Kansas City. It just was a great place to start out. They were so friendly, and I wasn't used to that. I'd go to the grocery store with a baby carriage, and they'd take my food out for me and put it in the car. Oh, come on. I'm being an eastern. I thought, what the. What are these people doing? Worried. Oh, my God. They're just being nice people. And they were. They were genuinely nice people.

[18:25] ALYSSA PINE: So you were 25 with a newborn.

[18:28] MIA PINE: Yeah. And no car.

[18:29] ALYSSA PINE: No car.

[18:30] MIA PINE: No car.

[18:31] ALYSSA PINE: And you and dad was working, and you were in a whole different part of the country.

[18:35] MIA PINE: What was that like? That was a little bit lonely. I hooked up with one gal who had a baby, and she lived across the area from us, and that was nice because we would have a glass of wine every now and then. We felt like we were freaking. Some taboo women drinking a glass of wine in the day. But the best part of the best story of Kansas City was I waited for him to come home every week. And so we could go somewhere in the car. And of course, he wanted to just be home. He was traveling all week. So the movie Tom Jones was playing down in center of Kansas City, and we said, oh, my God, we've got to go for that. That was very popular then.

[19:14] ALYSSA PINE: So it's a movie, Tom Jones movie.

[19:16] MIA PINE: Tom Jones with Albert Finney, the original one. And so we went and stood in line. We stood in line. We wait, there was a line for that theater, for that movie. And we got near it, and I said, my God, we don't have a babysitter. We left the baby at home, got in the car. Right close to getting a ticket, right close to seeing.

[19:38] ALYSSA PINE: Well, that's the part you're upset about.

[19:39] MIA PINE: Yeah, I am. We didn't see that movie for years. No. But we raced home, I guess, you.

[19:43] ALYSSA PINE: Know, Kristen was fine.

[19:44] MIA PINE: Yeah, she was in a playpen, fast asleep. But we would. We, you know. Wow. One and only time. We literally didn't know we had a kid. And were you scared?

[19:53] ALYSSA PINE: Were you laughing?

[19:54] MIA PINE: Well, when we got home, we were scared, but then we laughed because she was fine. Didn't even move. But, you know, that's probably being arrested today, if that happened. We later saw the movie, and it was good.

[20:09] ALYSSA PINE: So you were in Kansas City for a couple of years, and then one year.

[20:12] MIA PINE: Oh, just one year, we got transferred to Madison, Wisconsin, which is even better than Kansas City.

[20:20] ALYSSA PINE: And so you weren't working? You were.

[20:23] MIA PINE: I worked one year in Kansas City. I taught special ed one year in Kansas City. And one of my neighbors in the apartment building had a little child, Chrissy's age, so she babysat for me.

[20:34] ALYSSA PINE: And so did you want to work, or did you feel like you had to work?

[20:38] MIA PINE: I felt I needed to get well, we always felt we needed to work financially. I always felt as a. You know, I think it's left over from my dad. I never felt secure with his jobs and paying bills, and my mother always had bills and stuff, and I just didn't want to live like that. So I wanted to do. Just to make a little money extra, so, and to get out of the house a little bit, you know, I was stuck there.

[21:05] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[21:05] MIA PINE: So.

[21:06] ALYSSA PINE: And I, like, yeah, I mean, that's what, when I was thinking about dad and not having, you know, changing a lot of jobs, I was thinking about grandpa and, like, you know, I know he was a bit unstable, so I was wondering if that, you know, the word now trigger, if that triggered you thinking, like. But it sounds like dad was methodical.

[21:24] MIA PINE: He was methodical. And he. He did. He got good jobs. He went from a good job to a better job, and we never had to. I never had to worry about bills, which. That was just a. Something I had to have. I just couldn't do it any other way, so.

[21:40] ALYSSA PINE: And so how long were you in Madison?

[21:42] MIA PINE: Two years.

[21:44] ALYSSA PINE: And what did you do? Like, did you have friends? Did you.

[21:48] MIA PINE: We had. We had a high rise apartment building, so we had some. Quite a nice bunch of friends in the building and other pens, and we. At that time, it was very popular to have. You'd all get together in someone's house, and you'd have a foreign dinner, and the host would provide the food, the meat, and you would provide all the, you know, maybe sake or whatever it was for the different countries. And that was a lot of fun. And we'd all keep the recipe. You know, they give us each other the recipes. It was just a great way of getting together and having a good meal and not paying for every bit of it yourself and enjoy it.

[22:21] ALYSSA PINE: Were there a lot of young people?

[22:22] MIA PINE: Yeah, there was quite. Oh, yeah, quite. There were a lot of graduate students that we met. They were actually in our apartment, and we had a very nice indian couple we met that was. He was getting his PhD from University of Wisconsin.

[22:39] ALYSSA PINE: And. So why did you leave Madison?

[22:41] MIA PINE: We got. We just. We were. We actually felt landlocked there. And even though they're beautiful lakes there, we weren't near. We've always lived near on the east coast. Connecticut, New York, somewhere on the east coast. And we. Our families were all there, and we just didn't feel like we wanted to be that far away from them and have kids grow up that far away. So we had. He quit his job, I quit my job, and we moved back east, and we moved in with my mom for a while, and dad got a good, great job working on. Oh, my gosh. I can't remember other words, what it was, but it was a really good doing.

[23:24] ALYSSA PINE: Was it?

[23:24] MIA PINE: Crosby survey. Surveys. Crosby surveys. Doing surveys. And we were able to buy a house. And the closest we could get to New York was Trumbull, Connecticut, which is near Bridgeport, which meant he had to get up at six, get on, take the car, go down to Fairfield, take a train into New York. New Haven Railroad broke down constantly. Everybody had, every guy had a tool kit with him, fixed seats and all. And it got home at 839 o'clock. You guys were all in bed. I was.

[23:58] ALYSSA PINE: You forgot a really important fact of me being born.

[24:01] MIA PINE: Yeah, well, I know. Well, that's why we. Oh, you're right. It wasn't that. That's how we got into the house. We knew we had to get up and get into a house.

[24:11] ALYSSA PINE: Right.

[24:11] MIA PINE: We had two kids.

[24:12] ALYSSA PINE: Because you had two kids now you had to get out of the apartment.

[24:14] MIA PINE: Yeah, we just wanted to live in our own place.

[24:17] ALYSSA PINE: And were you teaching at that time as well?

[24:19] MIA PINE: I taught one year in a project school in Bridgeport, which I really liked. And we had a neighbor mother who had a little kid, and Irene. You probably. You don't know. I don't know if you remember.

[24:32] ALYSSA PINE: I have one memory of being in, I think it was at their house, and we were all near the bed, and they were three of them. They were all older, and they were talking about, of course, trying to scare me, probably, that there was a ghost in the closet. It wasn't. I don't feel badly about it, but that's. I have one little vision of that.

[24:52] MIA PINE: Yeah. Oh, she was very nice. I'm still friends with her and her daughter. One daughter. So. Yeah.

[24:58] ALYSSA PINE: So is that the first house you owned?

[25:00] MIA PINE: The first house we owned. Very tiny. $24,000. And it took all we had to get that.

[25:08] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[25:09] MIA PINE: It's a joke. Our car was more than that last time, but, yeah, it felt great. It really felt great. It was just a sweet little house.

[25:20] ALYSSA PINE: But what you're saying is, or what you've always said to me is that it was unsustainable, because dad was going into New York and he went back to grad school, or went to grad school and fell behind in his studies.

[25:34] MIA PINE: He went to Columbia while working and all that. And when he had papers up the yin yang, all these papers. And if you didn't get a paper on time, your punishment was another paper. It was like lucille ball eating those candies. You could never catch up. He could never catch up. And we said, this is not worth it. So we nixed that. And I think around that time, we decided to give you kids to our moms for a weekend, and we were just going to hit the road and take a long weekend and go away somewhere, think. And we did that. We went up to. We came up to. We ended up Manchester, Vermont. And we, after we decompressed, we said, why don't we move up here? This seems like a really nice place. We love the state. It's beautiful. There's a pace we can live with. And we came home and we thought about it really well, and we decided we were going to do that. And we did. We took time and came up and looked around and wanted to be near a hospital. That was our only thing. We needed to be near some decent hospital. And Dartmouth was here, so. And that was a good hospital even then. So we took a radius and we ended up in Woodstock.

[27:00] ALYSSA PINE: And during that time period, I think that three year time period, between 70 and 70, 315 thousand people moved up to Vermont. So it was like a little mass migration.

[27:12] MIA PINE: What was the best time in the world?

[27:14] ALYSSA PINE: What did your parents think?

[27:16] MIA PINE: My parents, my mother thought was great because she loved Vermont. I think his parents were, oh, you're moving away. How can you do that? You know, blah. They wanted everybody live, like, within the block of each other. And we just. And a lot of them did, because.

[27:29] ALYSSA PINE: That'S how grandma grew up.

[27:30] MIA PINE: I know. And we didn't do that.

[27:31] ALYSSA PINE: Friday dinner.

[27:32] MIA PINE: Yeah, Friday dinner. And. Yeah, we just didn't do it. And I think they were. They never really forgave us for that, really, neither their aunts and uncles. But that's. No.

[27:43] ALYSSA PINE: What about your friends? Like, what did Evvy think?

[27:45] MIA PINE: She thought it was great. My best friend, Beverly, who I lived right nearby in Connecticut, she was upset, but she understood. And, you know, it was just the right move for us. We had no qualms about it, and we had no jobs. So what we did is daddy went back, and that time they wanted men to be elementary school teachers, so he went back to Barnard, Hunter. Excuse me, Hunter College. And got a degree for teaching. I already had a degree, so I applied to. I think we applied to Lebanon. And they took me, and I said, well, I'll go if you'll take my husband. And they needed a fourth grade teacher. They took him. So we both had jobs.

[28:30] ALYSSA PINE: Did you apply in Woodstock?

[28:31] MIA PINE: I did, and we didn't get a job in Woodstock. And I'm glad we didn't, because I don't think it's a good idea to live in a small town and teach in a small town. There's no getting away.

[28:41] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[28:41] MIA PINE: So. Yeah, but this was a little too far, because we. For many years, we just didn't. We just commuted from Woodstock to Lebanon. We had weekends in Woodstock. So I don't know. That's not. Wasn't great either, but that's what it was.

[28:55] ALYSSA PINE: And did you enjoy teaching at that time?

[28:57] MIA PINE: Yeah, I did. Like, I liked it for a long time. It was very. It was a lot of exciting things going on, teaching. They would let us try anything. They never said no to anything. So if you had a great idea and they didn't cost too much money, they said, okay, do it.

[29:14] ALYSSA PINE: I remember a really neat thing you did where you wrote, I don't know how you contacted them, but you contacted all, like, the fancy stores in New York, like B. Altman's and Lord and Taylor. And you asked them to send you shopping bags.

[29:28] MIA PINE: Shopping bags. Paper shopping bags. All of them. And they all had great, you know, they were beautiful. I hung them up all over on the bullet board, on different open. All open. And they were. The kids were just in awe. They didn't even know those stores existed. And it was. It was a neat display. It turned out to be really, you know, that. That's the kind of thing they would let us do. You want to do that? Okay. Try it. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

[29:52] ALYSSA PINE: I also remember a mime staying at our house. I think he was performing at your school or something.

[30:00] MIA PINE: Yeah, put him up. Put him up. It was just nose holes barred. And the principal didn't really. It wasn't that great. So he didn't care. If you want to do something, it was going to be okay, fine. Didn't cost him anything. Okay, great. You can do it. So we did it. Everybody we talked with was very energized. It was a very energizing teaching time.

[30:24] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. I remember you throwing a lot of potlucks.

[30:26] MIA PINE: Oh, yeah. Potluck suppers and sleigh rides at people's houses and. Oh, it was great. It was great.

[30:33] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. So you've lived in Vermont now how many years?

[30:39] MIA PINE: 50 years. My entire life. Well, most of my majority of my life. And I am so happy to be here. I would never. I would never move for anything.

[30:52] ALYSSA PINE: You did a lot of fun things. I mean, you got. We had sheep, we had pigs. You made candles, jam baskets.

[31:01] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[31:01] ALYSSA PINE: You did a lot of work.

[31:02] MIA PINE: Well, everybody had classes. You know, there was a little city, town center in Woodstock, you know, town hall or whatever it was. And everybody would give a class. She was a candle maker. She was a basket maker. $20. She learned how to make a basket. It was great. Everything was so open and friendly. And you kids got swimming classes, which I don't think you really enjoy too much.

[31:25] ALYSSA PINE: Well, it was freezing.

[31:25] MIA PINE: It was early in the morning.

[31:27] ALYSSA PINE: Summers used to be cold, the little.

[31:29] MIA PINE: Green speedos turning blue outside in the pool area. But I think it was a good place to bring kids up. I feel it kept you in Vermont and kept your sister. Always wanted to come back to Vermont.

[31:44] ALYSSA PINE: And now you're 85.

[31:45] MIA PINE: Yes.

[31:46] ALYSSA PINE: And I would say the last few years, your main job has been taking care of dad.

[31:51] MIA PINE: Yeah. I'm a caregiver. Your dad's got fourth stage prostate and bone cancer, and that's an adjustment.

[31:58] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[31:59] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[31:59] ALYSSA PINE: What's it like to be with this human who you've known since you were 14?

[32:06] MIA PINE: It's sort of those different phases. I don't know what they are, but I've gone through some of them, and one of them I'm in now is. It's just a physical care for him because he's already. He's. He used to be very alert and all. He's. You want to do it? Okay. Do it. Okay. No. All right. Whatever. He has no desires for any. He doesn't remember our. He doesn't remember what we've been talking about, which is the saddest thing for me, but I remember it, so. And you guys remember it, so I. Or you've been told it anyway, so it doesn't matter now. He's nothing. He doesn't know. He's not remembering it, so it's. It's hard.

[32:46] ALYSSA PINE: Does it feel lonely?

[32:48] MIA PINE: Yeah, it does feel lonely, but. But Brattleboro has one of the two non medical hospices in the country, so I get a great lot of support. Great deal of support, which I would. It's just for free.

[33:03] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[33:04] MIA PINE: And it's just. It's an incredible thing. And I have. You have been a. Just a godsend through all this list.

[33:09] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. I'm really glad you moved down to.

[33:12] MIA PINE: Be close, to take. Took over our financial things.

[33:17] ALYSSA PINE: So you still don't have to pay the bills.

[33:19] MIA PINE: No, I don't. I never knew. I wouldn't know how to. That's the thing. He did all that, and he. He fought that. That was a big fight with you.

[33:26] ALYSSA PINE: That was a big fight.

[33:27] MIA PINE: That was hard for him to give that up. And then I took over his office. That was really hard, I think. But he doesn't care now I have it as my bedroom. But that was his last bastion of his. Not his manhood, but his life, I guess so. Yeah. It's sad.

[33:46] ALYSSA PINE: And what are you looking forward to if you have to name something you're looking forward to right now?

[33:53] MIA PINE: I don't really know what I'm looking. I'm looking forward to having a cat. I'm really, really looking. I've always had a cat until we came down here, because of the road we live on. But I've just. Of course, he doesn't really love them, but I just think I need a cat. I need something to start taking care of. That will take care of me a little, too, on a daily basis at home.

[34:17] ALYSSA PINE: You know, you mentioned watercoloring.

[34:20] MIA PINE: Oh, yes. They have a class I want to go to a little. Not a class, a little group that meets all over different places in town. And there's a rug hooking group that meets around town, and I do that. So I'm going to try to do both of those things.

[34:33] ALYSSA PINE: Would you say you've had a good life?

[34:35] MIA PINE: Oh, I think I've had a great life. I have no regrets. And I have no regrets with dad. I have. I mean, if he passed away tomorrow, I would cry, but I have no regrets. And he has no regrets. How can he have regrets? We've been married 62 years, and we have two beautiful children, three grandchildren. They're all well and healthy, and we live here.

[34:59] ALYSSA PINE: But according to family lore, you did almost kill him with a pitchfork.

[35:03] MIA PINE: Yes. And if I had hit him, if I had. If he didn't run that fast, I would have hit him in the back. I was so mad.

[35:10] ALYSSA PINE: Do you even remember what you were mad about?

[35:12] MIA PINE: I have no idea. But I can remember racing up that field and I had that pitchfork. He got me so angry. If I had met him, I probably would have been jail right now because I would have probably hit him with something. I was aiming at him. I'm glad you didn't. No, I didn't. He's been a very good dad, hard and strict. And a lot of people don't know how I could have stayed with him, but one stays with people that they feel comfortable with, and he's always made me feel comfortable and needed and wanted and cherished. So what else? And he's provided for me and us. So I think that's more than enough to ask for.

[35:51] ALYSSA PINE: That's wonderful. Yeah, that's wonderful. Do you want to ask me a question?

[35:57] MIA PINE: Oh, I've got so many of them, but I don't know what to. What do you think of it? How do you think your growing up was in Vermont?

[36:04] ALYSSA PINE: Oh, I am so glad that I grew up in Vermont.

[36:08] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[36:08] ALYSSA PINE: And I love that my kids have grown up in Vermont.

[36:13] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[36:14] ALYSSA PINE: I think it's always, like, a little bit behind the times, I think. You know, even my kids didn't have technology, didn't have a tv. They love nice, clean food, and, you know, the town closes up by eight. You know, I really, really liked it.

[36:36] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[36:37] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. I'm really grateful that you guys moved up.

[36:39] MIA PINE: Yeah.

[36:40] ALYSSA PINE: The rat race.

[36:41] MIA PINE: Yeah. I look back and I talked to my girlfriend, Beverly, who, you know, and she says, you guys pioneered. I said, I guess we did. But we didn't think of it at that time. We just thought it was the only move we had. And it wasn't like a. And I'm glad we didn't think about it too long and like, oh, my. Well, we did think about it actually long. We had to plan, but we didn't cross it off our minds ever. You know, we never crossed it off our minds. And thank God we didn't really.

[37:11] ALYSSA PINE: Did you ever dance to moonlight in Vermont?

[37:13] MIA PINE: Yes, of course we did. We used to request that, actually, up in Newport, they had a skating rink out in Derby, and the last song of the night was moonlight in Vermont. So you're roller skating to that. But we always requested that anywhere we went. And they always played it. It's a lovely song.

[37:33] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[37:34] MIA PINE: Great, great state, interesting politics, fascinating people.

[37:42] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[37:42] MIA PINE: Beautiful vistas. What else do you want? But I don't want anyone to move here. We gotta shut the doors.

[37:50] ALYSSA PINE: People, though.

[37:50] MIA PINE: We don't need millionaires.

[37:52] ALYSSA PINE: We need young people. We have a lot of old people.

[37:55] MIA PINE: I know, I know. Yeah. We're out doing you guys in your.

[37:59] ALYSSA PINE: Big houses that you can't take care of.

[38:01] MIA PINE: Yeah. No, you know, we don't. We have a little house.

[38:04] ALYSSA PINE: You've done a great job. But I think there's a lot of older people stuck in the hills.

[38:08] MIA PINE: They want to go out, but where do they want?

[38:10] ALYSSA PINE: Nowhere to move.

[38:10] MIA PINE: They have nowhere to go. They need a one floor house, and there isn't anything here. And they've already probably rented all the apartments out. But, you know, it's hard. This town has lots of big houses and lots of old people. There's always got a good, interesting young group. There's always something good going on here. Interesting, art wise, family wise, and good coffee shops.

[38:38] ALYSSA PINE: So you're gonna finish your days in Brattleboro, Vermont, with your cat?

[38:42] MIA PINE: Yes, I am.

[38:43] ALYSSA PINE: Have you thought of a name?

[38:45] MIA PINE: Yes. Willow.

[38:46] ALYSSA PINE: Wow.

[38:47] MIA PINE: Yep.

[38:47] ALYSSA PINE: Really do have a name.

[38:49] MIA PINE: It's gotta be a female willow.

[38:50] ALYSSA PINE: I think that's like a popular, like, kid's name.

[38:53] MIA PINE: Well, it's gonna be my kid's name. My furry cat kid's name. Yeah, Willow. I already figured that out.

[38:59] ALYSSA PINE: Nice.

[38:59] MIA PINE: Yep. So I'm excited about that. We'll pick one up at the humane society sometime along the line. Yeah. I have to wait till daddy's not quite as alert, so he won't quite know that I'm getting a cat.

[39:13] ALYSSA PINE: He won't notice a cat.

[39:14] MIA PINE: He might not notice, or he might not be upset.

[39:18] ALYSSA PINE: Well, he already won't notice the cat hair.

[39:20] MIA PINE: No, he won't, which is huge. No, he won't notice that, so. Yeah.

[39:25] ALYSSA PINE: Do you think you and dad were well suited?

[39:28] MIA PINE: I think we are. I don't think a lot of people ever thought we were, and they still don't, but I think we were very well suited.

[39:34] ALYSSA PINE: My favorite recent memory is when you guys moved down here. So you were packing?

[39:39] MIA PINE: Yes.

[39:39] ALYSSA PINE: So dad was upstairs with Mehru, and he basically had a measure tape to figure out if the box was squared. And that was getting too tense, so I went downstairs. You were watching tv. You had the, like, box between your legs, drinking a thing of iced tea and just, like, closing it, however it managed, throwing things in.

[40:04] MIA PINE: That's the difference.

[40:05] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. You're very different.

[40:06] MIA PINE: He did what I can't do, and I do what he doesn't ever want to do, so it's perfect. Made in heaven.

[40:13] ALYSSA PINE: What do you think he appreciated most about you all these years?

[40:16] MIA PINE: Boy, I don't really know. Wish we'd asked him before he could say that. Probably loyalty or something like that, or. I don't know. I just. I don't know what he really did.

[40:28] ALYSSA PINE: Do you think he appreciated your creativity?

[40:31] MIA PINE: Yes, I know he did. I know he did. I think he still does. Like. Yeah, always made songs, always doing craft things or stuff like that.

[40:40] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah, he always really praised your sewing.

[40:43] MIA PINE: Yeah. Well, I loved that. That was so much fun. Yeah. You kids and the grandkids, so. Yeah, it went forever.

[40:51] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah. I still have the little jammies. You made them? Yeah, waiting for them to have kids.

[40:56] MIA PINE: And now nobody sews. All my sewing stores have clothes, so you can buy a sewing machine at the second hand store for $50. Now nobody's sewing, so I'm outliving all of my hobbies and all of my things. You know, magazines. People don't really make newspapers. I still get my local paper from Woodstock because I, you know, believe in a local paper, so. Oh. Wrapping up. I had one more question, though, maybe. What do you think you two appreciate the most about each other?

[41:31] ALYSSA PINE: Aw, that's a really great question.

[41:34] MIA PINE: I appreciate the utter love she has oozing from her pores and her caring for other people. She cares deeply for everybody and ants and bugs and people and everything. She just is a lovely, lovely human being. And she's been that way all her life, and it just gets better and better, and I look at her and say, oh, my God, is she part of me? I'm just. It's a treasure to have you in my life.

[42:06] ALYSSA PINE: Thank you.

[42:07] MIA PINE: Always been a treasure.

[42:09] ALYSSA PINE: Well, what I think that I appreciate about you is, first of all, you treat everyone equally and you always have. I always remember you just, like, talking to the phone booth, or not the phone, but the toll booth people. Just the way that you interact with people, just look them in the eye. Very, you know, very interactive. And I also. I just. I recently, I think we ordered you something online, and I was like, oh, you know, this has come. I think it's the wrong size. You're like, oh, whatever. Okay. Like, you don't get upset about things. You're like, okay, we'll figure that out. Like, you just kind of. You don't hold on to a moment and try to change it.

[42:57] MIA PINE: I think you've taught me that.

[42:59] ALYSSA PINE: Oh, really?

[43:00] MIA PINE: Watching you.

[43:01] ALYSSA PINE: Watching you, I think I got it from you. I think maybe I just expanded on it, mom, and put it in more action.

[43:07] MIA PINE: Maybe. But I've always looked at you. Nothing bothers her. She can. Something goes wrong. Okay, we'll deal you. I. Maybe I'm just soaking that in from you. And if it is, it's a godsend.

[43:18] ALYSSA PINE: I don't know, but I think you were the kernel of that.

[43:20] MIA PINE: Oh, that's good.

[43:21] ALYSSA PINE: In stark contrast to dad.

[43:23] MIA PINE: Oh, yeah, I know, I know, I know. Totally different. Totally different.

[43:29] ALYSSA PINE: Well, thanks for doing this with me, mom.

[43:31] MIA PINE: This is have been a joy. An absolute joy.

[43:33] ALYSSA PINE: Yeah.

[43:34] MIA PINE: I love you.

[43:35] ALYSSA PINE: I love you, too, mom.

[43:35] MIA PINE: I know.

[43:37] ALYSSA PINE: All right, let's go see Kristen.

[43:40] MIA PINE: I love you, too, Alan.

[43:43] ALYSSA PINE: Thank you so much.

[43:45] MIA PINE: I'm going to take a little button out. My little story time.

[43:48] ALYSSA PINE: We have to do it. We have to do it.

[43:49] MIA PINE: Oh, I know. I'm going to have a drink. It.