Michael DiMonte and Rekha Shukla

00:01 Famous Rekha Shukla, I'm 55 years old and today is December 8th on a Wednesday from here in Pittsburgh. I live in Mount Washington and I am here to talk to Michael who is my storycorps partner.

00:19 Hi, I'm not my name is Michael dimonte E. I'm 68 years old today's date is December 9th. I live north of Pittsburgh and Cranberry Township hot and I'm delighted to speak with retha today my partner in conversation.

00:41 Okay, so why did you want to do this interview today right now?

00:48 I think back to when I first started hearing about this project on NPR and it just sounded like a great opportunity to talk to somebody who is a little bit different than me perhaps but also just to learn more about the community that I'm in and the differing views that are out there. I feel especially in this last year. We didn't a little insular and isolated and so it's just a nice opportunity to Branch out.

01:23 And how about you like a why did you want to do this interview today? Thank you. Actually for the past several years. I really been making an effort to reach out to get to know people with different views than myself. I've been successful in making contact with a few and it's always been rewarding and so I wanted to make one more contact with someone outside of my circle and and get to know get to know you better if know someone else better.

01:57 That's lovely.

02:01 Michael has Jack break his violin there. If you could read it, please and then feel free to ask a question having come to this country as an infant until this most recent. I felt a largely welcome and assimilated as a naturalized citizen these past four years have left me wondering how my neighbor's really do me. I'm married to a descendant of Patrick Henry and Daniel Boone. So American that that's really interesting the other and I feel our lives are echoed in our country's history as well.

02:44 Celebrate that I'm curious to know know what really has caused you to now feel unsure about whether you're welcome something specific that my parents immigrated in their twenties and I was an infant at the time my dad came to go to graduate school and I don't know that they expected to stay here, but they did and they built an amazing place for all of us really and we felt pretty welcome and not you know necessarily questioned or anyting but this most recent.

03:38 And I have to be on the 2016 election, especially kind of brought that to bear. I think the language around immigration at that time just felt.

03:51 A little tense. And for the first time I can think of for us personally. I would hear things said to my son's or are my parents feeling less comfortable and and it just was such a shift which which I was sorry to see and unfortunately, I think it is.

04:25 I categorize people in a where is Lexington box people into certain use if that makes sense. So seeing a neighbor with a

04:36 Sign for the opposite for the political party or it just felt like oh is that how that person also abused me or do they feel afraid of me or whatever it is. So so that's where I guess that came from. But as I said, I'd forgotten what I had written to NPR back when my husband is an American of you. No, thanks go back way back and and so our children can claim that Heritage as well, which is one of the things I think I love the most about this country.

05:15 Now it done It just strikes me a pain to me. It pains me to think.

05:27 But they might not be welcome anymore and it got just Crepes me. So I'm really sorry for that. It as well because I don't think that is how most neighbors of mine or most people feel. I just don't believe that but I think the political rhetoric did harm.

05:54 Us in that way it felt like an attack which which is so unfortunate cuz that's not the America that we lived in many ways it's not the experience that we had personally with friends neighbors co-workers and yet and yet that

06:15 Rhetoric at the top levels

06:19 Santa filter down you know this but let me just say on my behalf. You're welcome. You're welcome. I so appreciate that. I think that is how most people feel but if it did but the Heartbreak of that election in particular was like that was that was the wedge or the mechanism it felt like

06:46 Rekha I've dropped Michaels buy wine if you could make great thank you. Amy is liberal-leaning but I have some conservative views. I like the compassionate conservative concept and engineer business-type the grandson of poor immigrant Italian immigrants. Well, my career was reasonably successful. I have known unemployment was fired from jobs more than once that nearly killed me. I'm now very active in my church leading three different Ministries Justice environmental and strategy raised Catholic Book value all religions missions and Zimbabwe and China.

07:39 Go ahead and say what were you going to say? I'm sorry similar backgrounds.

07:55 Where we came to in this country, and I also was so fascinated by your work in in your mission. What was it that drove you to embark on those?

08:06 So being active in in our church, we initially had a programs to travel to areas. I like Appalachia if you act with youths and and so by traveling there with my children who were teens at the time. I started to experience the benefit of doing Mission work and helping people who are really quite poor. I've done Mission work in Appalachia and big travel to Zimbabwe. It wasn't my 60th birthday present to myself.

08:51 That's fantastic. I haven't actually done Mission work in China. I've done a lot of business in China took me to travel there many years and yeah found impact on me to see people in other parts of the world in other parts of the country who have very meager existence assistance.

09:29 Yeah, I hear ya. So just just to tell a little bit when I first went to Appalachia, you know worked on the home of a family the father was gone a mother and work there. So I think and when I came back, I was really upset really upset and I couldn't figure out why for about 2 weeks. And after. I realized that upset me was I couldn't fix it.

10:00 Text Annette roof.

10:03 Fixing stairs fixing Plumbing. It didn't fix anything for them.

10:10 And being there was a guy with a good experience.

10:16 I'm so moved that you're so moved by that experience to I think it's exactly that kind of.

10:26 Reaching out that

10:30 Allows us to see how others in the world.

10:36 Lives or our

10:39 Are in some ways and sometimes just existing because it is so difficult. I I to have worked overseas work with the American friends service committee a Quaker organization and we worked a lot in Inuyasha and

11:00 I I hear you so deeply my family is in India and some of those family members are are very well-to-do and have done very well for themselves and others are still living in pretty Niger circumstances.

11:23 And I remember taking our children there some years ago and and our sons were also just they were younger they were I think five and eight at the time and it was a lot for them to take in like this is how life can be so different. I so appreciate that you're working in Appalachia too. Cuz I think we sometimes forget about the poverty that exists in this nation and ask you a quick question and then I'll drop the third question in you mentioned that part of what was so upsetting to you was being unable to really stick their situation, Really, I guess I suppose maybe create a change that you would have wanted to see but what keeps you what keeps me going back and you're at work. Anyways, even if you feel like you might not be seeing what you want to

12:22 Yeah, so so kind of indicated, you know that I have a technical. I'm an engineering background so work. We're Fix-It people right? Show me a problem. And I guess what really I discovered was what was important was that I showed up.

12:46 It was a fact that.

12:48 They swap a person several people come and just express interest care. We walked with them if it was only for a week or two. We walked with them we lived with them and I saw that there was a value in that which was actually greater. And so that's that's why I keep trying.

13:15 Psychic

13:18 I've got the third questioning if you can ask Reka who's been the most influential person in your life. And what did they teach her?

13:33 Do I have to choose actually just one.

13:38 I'll let you go for 2 how about my parents? But we're really deeply influential in the older. I get the more I realize that they both came from such meager backgrounds. And so

14:05 For my father who grew up in a village in India and can remember the day that the that the British left India and the Flyers came from the sky from an airplane saying now you are free and for my mother she was the first woman in her family to go to college didn't she wasn't able to finish cuz she got married in the meantime, but but her brother her brother bought to allow the family didn't have the family allow her to go and they both have just

14:49 I think about coming here on my mother's lap and

14:56 Chicken speak English. She just made her life here. I didn't expect to get so emotional thinking about that time for my father to heberle had to struggle to get here. And then when they did they just kept going quote and I do a Resnik so much with what you said like some things you can't fix.

15:30 But just

15:35 Just letting somebody else know that you're there is so important and we need more. What do you think it was that helped your family those people who came from Meeker Beginnings. What it what do you think it was that help them achieve as much as they did you mentioned your your your father went to graduate school here. I think you said, what do you think?

16:10 You know, it wasn't without the support of the whole Community, right? So upon arriving. They had a a professor who was third of their host family and that that professor's wife came with diapers for me for my mom cuz that was something that they didn't know how to do and there were always people through that touchpoint. I think it's so important. We at one point lived in Dodge City, Kansas and we were the only

16:45 There was one other Indian family. I think that that that actually I think is the thing about this country. That is so beautiful is people who reach out and and and are the The Welcome Wagon for whomever is arriving not everyone experiences that I recognized but it's somehow or another I think sad feeling comes through.

17:20 Great, it's your turn. And who was the most influential person in your life? And what did they teach you as as you said? There's a tie back to my maternal grandfather and big they were both similar people. Although my father from my mother's father.

17:49 I would

17:51 I would say one of the things they taught me was expressed in a saying that they said my dad used it was saying with the it was a sign outside of machine shop and it said the difficult we will do right away. The impossible will take just a little longer.

18:17 And they were Risk Takers and then they they did.

18:24 Yeah, I do now look back and realize that I'm actually a risk-taker. I'll try thanks. Your story is my father's story is similar to yours. His parents came from a little town in Italy with next to nothing and he was the first to go to college and he never thought he would get there. He never thought his parents never thought I would be possible but a teacher made the difference when he went to public school in New York City and a teacher encouraged him to take a test to get into one of the other high schools and that she would say it was shot somebody and then they encourage them to take a test to go to college and he was shocked.

19:19 You got in with living lettuce scholarship with a partial scholarship. And so I think what's important in both our stories is that it was individuals.

19:33 What was

19:35 Right, there can be a series of individuals but it's individuals want what that it made her angry with you.

19:46 You just don't know. I mean, I hope the less that I can take from that has to be that person. That sounds like you are that person to reach out because the change that you can make is so important we try we try not trying to rush you but only because I want you to be able to get to the to the heart of what you're saying strive in your own words your personal political values.

20:30 So I haven't had this earlier conversation. I thinking, you know so much of my political Viewpoint stems from the personal background. So I do think I'm

20:46 Left-leaning or pretty liberal although in terms of Economic Policy. I can be a little bit more middle of the road or even conservative.

21:01 And my values I think I do value that sense of community perhaps over.

21:10 Not super speeding necessarily individuals, but just at the community matters that we all benefit from

21:18 I'm a good roadway system from a good Wireless infrastructure from all of these things right that we as a community has to build and and so I definitely place a higher value on that and I'll ask you the same. Can you briefly describe your in your own words your political values for some political? I think I would describe myself as I like the the phrase a compassionate conservative not a term not a term I invented but the past prime ministers of UK.

22:02 Coined the term, but I think I'm socially a fairly liberal but on fiscal matters, I'm I'm a lot more conservative. I think government should be really efficient and I do I do want us to be to eliminate waste think of a new government and the taxes that we pay as an investment knew we shouldn't see it as just an expense that we just have to throw money away and I feel many people think but it's really an investment and it's kind of like would you alluded to write that you're investing in a row, it's your investing in infrastructure like the internet and so forth. So I look at it and and that light I'm a conservative or liberal.

23:01 Kind of Maya my perspective.

23:09 That's dropped a few questions into the chat box. You can choose from those if you'd like, but I also know that both of you have different issues and questions that you'd like to speak to. Give me a minute or a moment to think about that. But if you have any other thoughts or questions, do you want to go back to your free to start us off?

23:35 Oh gosh.

23:38 Is there different feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you or people on the other side of the aisle? I think I am not understood. I think sometimes My Views are a little subtle.

24:02 I mean, for example, I mean one of the political issues is gun control and you know, I I don't really there was a time. I timer I wanted to own a gun. I don't I don't because a friend who was a police officer a police captain said you're safer without the gun and with it has been that's why I didn't buy it where we are in our country today or so many you're not going to get them out of the populations hand. That's just not feel it. But I don't think it's bad that people own guns, but I do think we need a different culture. You think we do need a different system around how we how we control that and people who are out of a liberal-leaning you look at me and say, how can

25:02 How can you say it's okay for people to have any guns so that it's an example of kind of situation where?

25:13 It's it's it's complicated right understood by people on same side or the other side.

25:36 Times I think like the issue is a great one to think about. I think some of my friends would be surprised to know that there's a gun in our house. It's in the attic and it belongs to my father-in-law and it's a relic from World War, but but we would never get rid of it because he's so it was just that important family history.

26:15 No issue is so black and white to me. I feel like there's just complexity and all of it. So so with with a gun issue, I don't think that people should just expect that they're going to go out of our country completely, but I do believe in those controls to protect the community as we were talking about or

26:41 Or with the I don't know just about every issue that I kind of find myself caring about with immigration. For example, I really believe this country is better for the immigrants who have come but that doesn't mean that there can't be

27:04 Some thoughtfulness and restriction perhaps there if needed it doesn't mean that we

27:11 Open our borders.

27:15 Without any consideration for who's coming and yet I do think that the strength of this country is being welcoming two more. I don't know making any sense at all. Like it's it's so difficult at all. So difficult right now is that feels so black and white and nothing really is I want it break. I wanted to ask you a question on that. But like I think you were. Choppy for a little bit with their question that you wanted to ask that you said that you

28:07 Feel as though there is space and room for those thoughtful.

28:12 Maybe guidelines applied to how restriction is managed and maintained you also again describe the welcoming nature of the United States and how that's been very important to you and your family and you are experienced coming as an immigrant.

28:26 Are there any what are the conversations like that you've had with other whether it's friends who lost immigrant and immigrated or family members about creating those kinds of

28:39 Guidelines knowing your experience talk about what is the results of it? But what is that like? Well, I think it's just so it is sort of complex. Like my parents came at a time when there was a big opening off of immigration in the mid-60s and were part of that brain drain that people have talked about us folks emigrated from Asia or Africa or wherever they were coming from. So there's this great opening at that. Time, but if we were to

29:20 Only restrictor immigration to people who are coming for graduate school her coming to open a business that leaves out so many other

29:32 People in this world who who I'll never forget quote at Ellis Island for example where and I think it might have been somebody for me to Ireland or Italy but they said, you know, when we came to this country, I thought the streets would be paved with gold. Not only are they not pay but they expect me and I love that cuz I mean that also is part of the backbone of this country is it people came offering whatever they could so I just don't I fear that there's a sense that there are like all things there people categorizes as good or bad or beneficial or not beneficial and

30:25 The human potential of whoever comes we don't know somebody who's coming as a refugee.

30:33 Haircut to be so tenacious in order to do that.

30:38 They're ready to offer so much. And so I just hope that we

30:46 Are more welcoming and in our future hope it's also important that we look at know the root of the problem particularly for immigration refugees in the Americas people are leaving their countries not because they want to leave Honduras or they want to leave Costa Rica where at where ever I mean it's because it's really bad and and certainly I think we should accept the number of immigrants. We can't solve the whole weekend except every immigrant in the world. That's not possible. But we need to find ways to know help those countries solve some of those issues. We can't fix it for them. I think we've been incredibly.

31:46 Play Bad at any sort of attempt like that in the past, but we got to find a better way and

31:57 Michael can I ask how did you how did you come to that perspective or experience thinking about working within those other countries, especially given the work that you've done abroad?

32:13 Well, I guess so I guess I'll say that.

32:18 I've been amazed at the industry creativity and positivity amongst your people when I went to Zimbabwe was the first day we were there they took us to a church service and they were all singing and then turn to the group of us and they said okay you guys saying we had no idea what to do, but the point really that story is the people there are happy happy to the point that they are often singing to one another in Joy when the majority of Americans would look at their existence and say it's horrendous.

33:10 And so he doesn't come from the stuff. We normally think about it comes from something else and I don't know if I really have a grip on it, but it comes up something else and and so it just makes me value those Lifestyles as well. It may not be

33:40 You know that the GDP that we produce or the standard of living the size of the house, you know value. I have a value for that simple life that I didn't have before.

34:00 Before I saw it and spent living in it. Couple of weeks, but

34:12 Wilco for about another 10-ish minutes little less one thing that I wanted if there's if you don't mind I have many questions, but I just wanted to ask you earlier you were talking about how the past four years in particular have change the way you feel you've been received in the US as an immigrant and

34:42 I guess it's it was interesting to me, especially in tearing you two together that you both had had history of immigration in your family isn't and had parallel experiences. I was wondering if you could speak record to what it's been like being like a person of color and a grading and how or if that's been different. Were you in comparison to other immigration says or what? It's like just

35:08 Being in that position as opposed to its again. It's it's so complex, right because I think in some ways

35:20 I don't even know how often I Mass like are you a doctor and engineer, you know, unfortunately, I'm neither a view of the model minority or the model immigrant perhaps I think this is something that is so much a part of our

35:42 And who were exposed to I guess and thinking of your other than I do think that there's a difference it's depending on which country you're coming from and certainly

36:01 You know our recent politics today unveiled that a bit more in that there were even comments at Administration level about you know, all the great Norwegian to her to come but maybe not so much people from from south or Central America.

36:24 At the same time. I think that is kind of the way if history teaches us anything. It's that new the new immigrant is always the one that's you'd with some suspicion a bit. There are just as many

36:43 Just tasteful or unpleasant political slogans from earlier periods of time against the Germans are Irish or Italian. So whoever's new kind of gets you dispose with a bit of Suspicion and and trepidation until enough time passes and we all start to view each other as people perhaps I'm not sure so I don't yeah, I think there is

37:15 Is there is some difference IMAX Carter?

37:20 Talk about coming here in the sixties and you know, they would go to some science conference and his Professor would have to takethe.

37:35 The clerk's aside at whatever hotel or restaurant they were at and just say look, these are my students and they're here from Africa and Asia and we're going to eat here. And and that was what was necessary that now it's not like mostly but that I question how much people welcome, you know us in this last. It was never at a personal level. I've never felt that way.

38:12 Personally, although some family members have had not-so-great experiences, but but I think it was just the

38:26 I don't have the right words for it. But the rhetoric from the top or the the just so the the the negative.

38:36 Conversations that were happening at that level that just felt like this is is this who we are cuz the idea of America means so much to people overseas when coming I think that's

38:50 A beautiful thing and maybe if we can kind of underscore that I'm that would go a long way slightly rhetorical question to bounce off of you but isn't isn't it amazing the influence that one person and not supposed to clean a leadership role can have I made it just blowing me away and I wrecked I recognize he's building on things that are there already. He didn't read it, but he sure he sure put her on steroids and

39:33 Right, right, and that that is that was the Heartbreak of that kind of discourse in this pass. Is just like this is not the America we knew coming here, but it must have been there a little bit for it to be so successful and I think that's why it feels so sad like somehow he unveiled that which now that it's been unveiled. Okay we can deal with that. You can take it on that's not who we want to be naming naming. The problem is necessary before you can address it and just as you said he unveiled some very ugly things that were there but hidden

40:29 And we do need to do some things about it. Not one thing many things.

40:42 I've got a few closing questions in through the chat Michael if you'd like to ask first, and then you can affected me today.

41:01 I don't know how to answer that. I'm part because I'm not a try not to have expectations when I meet people I think you know your file was so clear and I think it just meeting you now. It's like you clearly reach out in this world to people all over the world and within your community and outside your community and I think that's what I find. So compelling even about this project is is none of us are who we expect others to be. I think it's some level we all have

41:43 Commonalities and maybe some differences but that's part of the beauty of it all.

41:55 Was there anything you learned about me today that's surprised used to reveal one of my own prejudices. You're obviously very intelligent and well-educated person. And when I read that you were you know, an immigrant I had the expectation that you wouldn't necessarily be. So well-educated. Why should I have thought that giving my own family experience? I don't know but I did.

42:30 But I did, you know, it it's it is part of that revealing set of prejudices that are there that we don't know where they're their blind spots and because they're blind spots. We don't know.

42:53 Ray and I find myself kind of

43:08 Networking, I guess. What is it? I'm thinking I was just going to ask when you realized that that may be bias or Prejudice that you had was incorrect in this situation. What was going on in Europe? Why did you make that assumption and just kind of felt like that's not who I want to be.

43:43 But brought rock humans, right? We all have our flaws.

43:51 Learn from each experience

43:56 No.

43:59 Rekha what was it like to hear that as like as an answer to your question

44:06 Can you hear us now?

44:13 Are you able to hear?

44:18 Can you?

44:37 Cuz I think we can hear you. Yeah.

44:43 We were able to before when.

44:46 Paper said that yeah.

44:54 Can you do unplug? Oh, man, I don't know if you saw this.

45:01 It's always such a challenge.

45:05 This is our life now life on Zoom.

45:25 Can you hear it? I can hear you?

45:28 Yeah, my computer switch screen.

45:35 That's okay. I figured yeah sometimes.

45:42 The machines are taking over now.

45:48 No, I'm sure it was fine. Right? I was just going to ask you what it was like to hear that in response to your question. Just cuz it felt like a very interesting answer to me.

46:03 This may be revealing my by us and never would have thought that because I was growing up in a world of immigrants like my parents who were all coming for school and I'm pretty much insisted that their children go into the school as well. And that was not an option for us. So I hadn't really thought of that and yet I know that we all make assumptions about

46:36 About the people we encounter based on.

46:40 You know where you live for what you do for a living and you know, I I keep thinking back to it and you may have had this experience to in China, but it just feels like in this country. We're so defined by our what you do and and your education and all that background and and sometimes it's more important like who who are you? Who are you?

47:07 Oh, I think I lost him again.

47:12 Well, thank you for that Rekha. I spent here the last track again. Go figure. Is there anything else you'd like to say to each other just a really pleasure and

47:47 You know, maybe at the end of this.

47:53 Meet one another share our family connections.

48:00 I would love that. I've also too so enjoy the conversation and and the experience and and I hope that I hope that life is treating you well during this covered. But I would love to to meet in person. And if I were you I had high expectations, but my expectations were exceeded.

48:25 Yes, I would Echo that to its really it's been a terrific process.

48:33 And it's all you too, which is the magic of it all.