Michael Richardson and Kenneth Fields

00:03 Hi, my name is Richardson, Michael Denis.

00:07 I am presently in Beaufort South Carolina. I am 71 years old and today's date is 12 April 2001 and I am here ready to interview my brother and it spills.

00:28 Hi, my name is Kenneth. Joseph seals.

00:32 I'm 71 years old. I live in Beaufort, South Carolina.

00:37 And today's date is 12 April 2021.

00:44 Okay, so the beginning interview were talking about this military service. When did you initially join the military?

00:55 Initially joined in August of 77. I came in on the Delayed Enlistment 6 months out and I actually

01:10 Was accepted into the military in September of 1977.

01:15 And what branch of service did you enlist United States, Air Force? Why did you choose the airport's? Rather convoluted answer. I was attending University Villanova. And I was also working and the individual who is supposed to replace me as a manager for the day, shift didn't come in. So that meant I was going to miss class for that day. I went to one in hard hats, which is a defunct restaurant for breakfast and on returning to work. I saw this guy close to Boulevard in a blue uniform. Get off the bus.

01:51 And it kicked my curiosity. So I went over there to the recruiting station and walk inside and first and kind of the Marines who wanted to make me a man and I said my father's already done that, I don't need you for that. We can make you all you can be. I am all I can be. I don't need you for that next guy with the Army and I don't need to talk to you at all. I want to talk to the guy in the blue uniform, so they told me who he was. I went to the back and talk to him and came in on the Delayed, Enlistment 6 months out, went back to work. And then six months later reported to the

02:30 Air Force Recruiting Station.

02:34 How did you know he was a Airman in? Not a bus driver station? That's how I knew he was associated with the military. And this was in your hometown of what. Well, at that time. I was living in Philadelphia because I'm going to Villanova University, which is up in Utah County in the same state.

03:04 I'm going to be delayed entry program that time came for you to join the military and leave on. How did your family feel about that? They were, they were shocked to say the least because I didn't think that I was a type of person that could deal with the military for then it like to be told what to do. However, I had made up my mind that I wanted to try something different. So the fact that they try to encourage me, not to go was really irrelevant. And you had already made up your mind. That this is what you were going to do. I get off the bus station and get my mind right then. And there, that's what I was going to do. Okay. Once you entered the airport, where did you take basic training in basic training was at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas?

03:54 You mention your dad had military service or he had made you a man. Did he make you a man before as a civilian? Or because he was in the military himself. He made you a man.

04:09 It was because of his personal experience is my dad is here from Beaufort South Carolina and he grew up on a farm. So he was a very disciplined individual and he made sure that my brother and I followed his example. And that's what I say to the to the marine guy. I don't need you to make me a man. My dad has already done that. Did your dad have any military service? Yes. He did. He serve in the world war primarily in Europe in, in, in Germany, with the offence of coming from

04:46 Northern Germany down to Berlin.

04:50 So, your basic training lasted, how long six months? Six months. That's an awful long time instead. Okay, and you were located where at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas and Texas. Okay. Well, did you have an opportunity to do anything off base or you all Miller know? I was on Military. When you first come in, you know, you make it base Liberty. If you follow orders, but we didn't get a chance to sample. Anything outside the base confined after you completed basic training.

05:32 What happened after that? Where we went to a prospective training schools. Mine was as oral hygienist in a dental careers for you. So we went to Kansas. I forgot the name of the base sets up there.

05:47 Tell you chose to be a dental hygienist. Is that something you want to do in the military? And as a civilian, or just in the military as a civilian, but, you know, I thought that would be a stepping stone. So, how did that work out? Once you finish the school, it worked out pretty well. My first assignment was over in Japan, which was a total surprise. I thought I'd be stationed in the states. So that was an excellent choice. I did, you get a chance in Japan to go out on the civilian, economy, and being the fact that I'm adventurous. I like to explore and go places. See, different things. I got to know the people. I definitely got to taste the food and I made friends while I was there of the Japanese individuals.

06:48 Is the Japan. You're only assignment?

06:52 Oh, no, that was my first assignment after that. I went to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina. And then from there I cross-trained into the Intel CPU and was schooled in Colorado and that was a six months of school.

07:13 So you stop being a Gentle dental hygienist, looking in the people's mouth. And then you started to cross-train into the Intel field and get into people's business.

07:24 I don't think I would ever put it that way. But essentially it's the truth. Where did you see? Receive your Intel training? That was a Colorado?

07:35 I don't remember the days, but it was actually a naval base. And we were, we were just allowed to have a school there. But when things change it moved to San, Angelo, Texas.

07:50 Well, the same thing I'll ask you. Did you get a chance to get off base in Colorado?

07:54 Not really. I mean we had days with the weekends, we could go into town but it was such an extensive and such an intense program. We didn't have a lot of time to go exploring in the city.

08:13 On the weekend, I guess class without that you have a chance to go to church on Sunday or do things on Saturday? Well because we were there in the order also, they are doing the winter time. So we went skiing with friends that lived in the dorm church was kind of iffy because we have so much work to do. We don't always have time to to go to church. So, maybe for the length of time is a maybe I went to church twice.

08:45 Okay, well back in school in the inter-school. What kind of things did you actually learn their? Well.

08:55 It was a myriad of things we learned.

08:58 Collection of data.

09:01 Analyzing the data disseminated, the data to whichever organization had requested that information and researching the different databases Platforms in organizations in order to collect the data to disseminated.

09:18 So what you learned all that I had? By this time, the school came to an end. What happened after that? Well, I received my assignment and that was to

09:28 Germany to share Stein Air Force Base in Wiesbaden.

09:39 Did you notify, your family? You're going to be leaving the states going to Europe? Because we had that leave after the school. So I went home and I gave my parents a copy of my orders. So that if they needed to get in contact with me, they had that data available to them and doing that time. How did you stay in touch with your family? Well, calling mostly. Sometimes I would write but the most immediate means was just a telephone. So did you have to take a number of shots? Early bird special Pensacola before the military? Let you go. And if we're going to be deployed, that's when we have to get a different inoculations.

10:31 When you were assigned to Germany.

10:35 What became your duties in this particular unit, you're in well exactly what we had learned at school. It was still collecting data researching the data analyzing the data and then disseminating to data, do any intelligence field. Did you have one of those jobs where you can shoot people? If you're told me what you did because it's a hotel and it was a covert operation.

11:03 We would say we neither confirm nor deny any source that was bought up or we would not allowed to give out any information.

11:13 Okay, so

11:15 Since you were analyzing Gathering disseminating disseminated information, did you do that all in Germany, or did you move around?

11:25 Initially, I did it in Germany later once I became proficient and confident in what I was doing, we moved around but really

11:39 We were limited to what locations we could go to, we would and one time we were in Morocco, working with the Moroccan Air Force. And another time. We were in Turkey, another time. We were in England and another time. We were in Iceland.

11:57 Many citizens in the US long to do traveling and exploring new places that you have an opportunity to travel and visit these places outside of your military job. Yes, we had to take leave at that time. There was only certain country we could go to, we could not go to show you it based countries or their satellite like a always wanted to go to Yugoslavia and Lithuania, but that was off the chart. So I got to go to Spain, Italy North Africa on my own as part of my desire to go traveling.

12:41 What type of experience did you have meeting the people in this new places?

12:47 I think it was rather positive because I'm not afraid to travel my brother. And I used to travel between New York and North Carolina by ourselves begin at age, 6. So it was

13:00 I just looked at it as an adventure. I wasn't afraid to do it. I was looking forward to it. And so I just got out and did it. So being a person of color, where you observed it as an oddity in these places you visited, do good Lord. Yes.

13:17 We met some German German friend through church, and he introduced me to his family were to leave. Lived in this little town of outside of mites mites Germany and the community. Just thought, you know my. We did this boy final these people with this dark skin. So but it didn't bother me, you know, you and United States encounter so much racism in so much negativity that it kind of prepares you when you go to another country and you encounter another person or people that have different perspectives of different ideas. You just learn to be yourself to be confident and to not show Fear.

14:02 Do when you travel in these form places. Did you have a guy or were you able to communicate some gestures or did you pick up on the language? Well, yeah, I picked up on the languages. First thing I did when I got to Germany was to learn the language so that I could interact with people when we were in Morocco. We were not allowed to travel alone. So if we wanted to go somewhere and they was tour going there. We had to have a military escort. Once we we, we, we arrived into the city. We were allowed to roam freely on our own, but I would give him a cautious. Number one. You never make gestures. If you don't know what that gesture actually means because to you, it could be something in the key was for, to that individual or that native. It could be something extremely negative. So, the first thing we were told was don't make gestures. If you don't know anything, learn a few phrases and just get out and go to the people will, you know, I'm bi-curious. But as I said before,

15:02 You have to just be confident and just know where to go and where not to go with the customs and no of in foreign countries over there in Europe and mention. Not speaking to women, particularly women by themselves, with this practice, their could you just talk to women as if you over here in the Muslim countries? Know you could not approach single women. However, the exception was in Morocco. Although it's a Muslim country. It's very liberal. You just had to be careful of how you approach them. And what you said to them. Other than that, especially in Europe, you could walk up to an individual to stop talking to him or, or they could approach you. If you were open to that, when I would imagine when you were in before countries, you had an opportunity to eat up there, any civilian economy. I was that, man, you know, I like to eat so that was not a problem for me. I like food.

16:02 The only things I don't like his liver.

16:05 I don't like kidneys.

16:07 Uncommon skepta, but brussel sprouts, but other than that, everything is a go.

16:14 Army cooks or shift over there could have prepared those same food that you didn't like and you might not even know what it was and you could have been eating it. And you you know, what something is. I mean because once you learn the language, you can read the menu on the menu to tell you what that item was.

16:36 Well, I understand that the alcoholic beverages over in Europe. Has different the alcoholic content than what it is over here. Is that true? Yes, that is very true. The first thing we learned was number one, don't make gestures at number to be aware of your surroundings, New York. I already knew that.

16:59 But the alcoholic content of beer German is a very dear loving country, because the water is full so many minerals.

17:09 What's the temperature? Can't drink it. So you add bottled water or you bought beer, but their beer is.

17:18 Three times the content of three times, alcohol, content of American Beer.

17:25 When you were traveling me, getting all this information while you were working, did you have opportunity to?

17:34 Eat off the economy. While you were traveling from one place to the next, maybe a military aircraft stopped over somewhere and you will be able to go out and drink wine or beer or something while you were working. Or did you have to wait until you often out of uniform well in Europe? Because he was based in Germany. They were used American Military. So we, we could be in uniform. The only surprise was that McDonald's serve beer and wine. And so we had, you know, you always had that individual that think that they can drink the same beverage to the same quantity that they did in the America and then they would run into problems because of inebriation is not tolerated in Germany. And so we had many an individual that was arrested and then they had to contact their their unit to come and bail him out of jail.

18:33 Over here. There are a number of celebrations where people are allowed to drink in public, is that true over there too? And your guess as long as you conduct yourself in a civilized Manner and you know, when you've reached your limit, they was no problem. But drinking in public. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of the pubs are are are outside areas where you can sit and drink and then sometimes have a meal or snack. It has been my experience in law enforcement that a person. Drinking alcoholic. Beverage doesn't know their limits. So, what would be the penalty? If a person was caught drinking in the public or acting out in some way of the biggest problem would be acting out, as I said earlier, lot of people drink in public, in Europe, you know, because the camaraderie or for celebrations and they have area set aside for that, but inebriation really is not tolerate him since we were gay.

19:33 It was less calorie with Americans, and it was would be for that native from the particular country.

19:40 I understand that the Europeans drive on the opposite side of the road. So did you drive any military vehicles while you were over there or civilian vehicle? You take other forms of transportation in United States. The only problem we had when we were in England, because they drive on the opposite side of the road. Also Japan drive on the opposite side of the road. Turkey drive on the opposite side of the road. You just have to be very conscious of the fact that

20:14 Cheap the curb to your left shoulder.

20:20 And yes, we did Drive, military vehicles in Europe and we did Drive civilian Vehicles as well.

20:27 Okay, looking at some more food thinking about something, some kind of noodles. They have everything else fits or something. What was that about? Well, one of the noodle dishes that they make a call Stacy, and it comes with three different sauces, jagerschnitzel, which was mushroom to go in a schnitzel, which was bell peppers and then Kaiser, which was cheese. They also had a dumpling. It was a potato, dumpling, quite different from the ones that we have.

20:59 It was kind of sticky, you boil it, but it was very tasty when you put gravy on it or had it with meats and vegetables.

21:10 Cold noodle.

21:16 Did they drink alcoholic beverages with all their meals? Yes, as I said Germany, they drink a lot of fear, but France in particular is Italy. Drink a lot of wine with their with their meals.

21:32 That was a very pleasant experience. Did you get to hang out with the locals in Germany or these other places? Yes, I made friends. It was just different families in Germany. One was the friend that I met at church and introduced to his family. The other one was a banker. We had problems paying rent because American Bank would not transfer funds to a German bank. So we had to set up an account. So this individual set up the account scores, and because we traveled a lot, you're going to always available to input, but the bed bank with an N, put them out for you into your landlord's account. And when you came back, you just shut you up.

22:16 Okay, so these people you met in church. Did you ever go home with them? The first one? I met with all of them? The first one. I meant. He invited me to his village and to me it is his family and

22:31 Is dad works for the railroad? So he was a federal employee and his mom was a stay-at-home mom. She just took care of her family, the other one, the banker, his mom and that worships, his mom was a pastry chef and his dad had worked for Americans in the month of the American hotels. And so he wasn't a chef as well.

22:54 When you went home with the school, so I take it. They're family. Received. You pretty good. Yes.

23:04 Did encounter resistance from people that I personally met and became friends. With the only difference is Europeans, take friendship very seriously. It's it's not so surface as it is in here in America. And once they accept you as a friend, will you became an extended member of their family?

23:26 Was that the same for the people in the neighborhood outside of those folks house? Yes. I mean it's the prevailing culture is is that way, you know, they if they like you and then they respect you and it's reciprocal. Yeah, it was an easy transition. It's just a fact that they put more emphasis on friendship than American Wood.

23:49 Well, did you stay entirely open based or did you have some time secured an apartment off base? When you first arrived in country? We were cuz I was, I was assigned to the base and then normally when you make rank like, E5, you were permitted to move off base and find your own apartment.

24:12 Once you find your apartment, did you have your own transportation? And did you use public transportation? Initially? I use public transportation. I bought my own means of transportation.

24:27 So they had buses training scab that kind of thing. Yes. I'm in there. There. There there public transit transportation system is excellent. You can set your watch by. If they were due to leave station at 9. They left station at 9. What's the price for trance being transported on these things? Easily identifiable. So, you know how much to actually pay? Yes, special on the train system because when you told them your destination the immediately will tell you what the price was either. One way or directions coming and going. So did you learn to spin or speak German reasonably well and have a conversation? Just because I'm 10 and it's because I lived in Germany and I was wanted to meet people. I'd rather learned it more than just phrases. I learn how to hold conversations because, you know, you

25:27 The bathroom unless I'm going in this direction. How do I get to this place at that place? And what bus do I need to change to Reno taxis? You really in the United States?

25:43 So did you learn to speak German from the military, or whatever, to be your teacher classes at the University? And I took classes in town, George Schuler, which is like

26:02 What would you call it? It's like a high school and we have formal education.

26:10 Did you continue to do the Intel fields of gathering information or a digit job change while you was there in Germany? For the basics? Know, it was the same, but I also became a Korean. So, I traveled extensively throughout the year of end back to United States, current Intel information.

26:34 Okay, so you had an opportunity to enjoy yourself as well as the form your military duties and I took advantage of it at every opportunity and like an instructor. Yes. I was in the military. I was elected to being ass truck. As matter, fact, when I switched over to the Intel after I left, Germany and returned to the United States today.

27:04 Volunteered me to become an Intel instructor at the basic until school, as well. As at that time was called, I said, it's called something different, but that was a graduate-level until shoot as well as teaching foreign officers. And as well as American.

27:24 Would your time as an instructor entirely in the military? Or did you become a civilian and continue to teach while I was in the military? I was an instructor. So I was stationed at Goodfellow Air Force Base in Texas. For four years, was a special Duty assignment and was handpicked for that assignment prior to leaving Germany, because they were having retention problems.

27:54 And then, when I change Duty stations from Texas and back to Europe, again, I became an instructor because it was in my records to do so.

28:05 And then when I became a civilian because I had work with civilians doing our every day to day, operations, and special Duty assignments and on our exercises work, the civilian. So they liked me well enough that they were accepting my resume and then hired me.

28:25 On and I continued as a as an instructor.

28:30 Will be asked about you apartment that you have, was it basically the same as an apartment here and what it? What do you mean the size of the apartments? Similar to what we have here besides Barry. He came along with the United States. What size was the bathtub?

28:59 With the regular size, it was real.

29:02 It was regular. There was one apartment. I had. When I

29:07 Frankfurt to Kaiserslautern, I could float in that doggone thing. It was for two people, but man it was it was Evan to get into the air and just soak in just just to relax. Sounds like you took a lot of baths over there. Well, yeah, American, you know, we don't like to sweat and we don't like body odor. But in Europe,

29:33 It wasn't the same except with them. Sometimes you wonder, you know, did they even know what soap and water was, but they didn't bathe as frequently as we did. When I met some of my German friends, their friends. That was the first thing that said, you know, that Americans take a lot of baths. So they quite curious when they met me and wanted to know how often do you Americans? Babe? Well, normally twice a day in the morning and in the evening, however,

30:07 On.

30:10 Summer times three to five times a day and they were shocked. Like she this is why we charge Americans so much for rent. You used too much water.

30:20 Your water bill probably what's higher than a average German to the ass. It was quite according to gym, after you for teaching for this. Of time. When did you return to the states? While I return to the states, and 2010, dad had died. And I had settled the estate because I was the executor.

30:50 And when I first came to Buford, I I liked it. So well that I decided to stay.

30:58 Is there anything you regret about leaving your though, but you go back. Yes. I will. Go back in a heartbeat.

31:07 Did you ever have an opportunity to be in Europe? Where your father was during World War II? Yes, I invited my mom and dad to come. It was very difficult to convince Dad to come because of the difficulty. She had when he was in the war. The war itself, American racism, was just ramp it, and so, he was quite reluctant, but after about three years of carpet on them, mom and dad, finally decided to come. And as I said, when when was taking a tour down the Rhine River, I went to get a map and he said well I can tell you what towns are. I got the map anyway opened it and he was right. He knew exactly some cologne all the way to Berlin. He could name the highway, you can name the towns on either side of the river as well as on the other side of the mountain.

32:00 Georgia soldier, your dad became uniquely familiar with the particular area of Germany, his military unit operated at yes because their life depended on, it was a sniper. And so he had to be intimately involved and knowledgeable of the terrain that they would be in or traveling through. Okay. I'm sure he enjoyed that and your mother as well. So when you return to the states, did you continue to work for the same company? Yes, I did Northrop Grumman in el Tri.

32:41 At what point in time did you decide that you were no longer going to work with them?

32:47 When I return to the states, I wish I was at the Fayetteville in North Carolina military doesn't like older individuals, special retired, older individuals. So it was a difficult higher.

33:02 But,

33:04 I found out that I was really just tired of it until I was tired of

33:10 Trying to be a type A personality.

33:13 So if that is the case and you were tired of it, when did you actually retyre?

33:19 2010, I do. I'm glad I left. But I also regretted the fact that it has been difficult to return. Their you think, if you went back, you might enjoy it.

33:42 I have an agenda and I know how to get around. I know where I want to go. So yeah, I would enjoy it thoroughly. Well, I would imagine if things hadn't changed from the time, your dad left at the end of World War II, when he went back. So that should still be the same as when you left them. So you should still be able to find your way. Around, said, as we say, you know, you know.

34:10 They locked out of the of the area and you know, where you want to go and how to get there.

34:18 Well, is there anything you would like to add to this before we close out?

34:24 No, I enjoyed my time when I felt it was time to go. I left, I was glad to return to United States because it was a family of concern. But now that, that has been settled. I really would like to go back to your really just stay there.

34:40 As in permanent as in permanently.

34:44 Do you have any family in the states that you would leave behind? I believe every one of them. Okay. Well, then that means you would be on extended deployment. I would imagine if you want to call it that yet. Okay. Well, this is Michael Richardson that will bring this interview to a close and I'd like to say I'm a strong and Airborne all the way. I'd like to say Air Force. Aim high. Thank you so much.