Mindy Baker and Lynn Potyen

00:01 I'm Mindy Baker. I'm 42 and today's February 23rd 2020. I'm in New York for the Toy Association toy fair, and I'm here with my friend Lynn.

00:12 I'm Lynn Podium and I'm 53. I'm and I'm also in New York at the toy fair for the first time and I'm with my friend Mindy and I'm excited about this is your first and I get to spend it with you.

00:32 It's so funny is I can't believe so. This is your first Wayfair. Yeah, but you have had your shop. Now you have a game Shop in-store. Yeah, you had it for 13 years. Yeah, 13 years. And so why did you start your shop? I started my store for the love of my child for

00:54 Do you have three three children? Yeah, so your oldest my old my oldest Eric. I have three kids Eric Rachel and Alex and

01:05 That's okay. I know yeah. Oh, yeah, and your family is so cool and they're all involved in your life in different ways. And I know that so like I know Eric when he was younger, I had some difficulties as lots of kids do right and you came like some really cool ways to help him. Yeah, and he was our first born and we were in a different state and our family and he was 4 years old and he had a severe speech delay, but I didn't realize it. I didn't realize it for a long time and then I started using like I started going with we went to a speech therapist and he got tested and I watched her playing games with him and then she would be like I always loves game take it home and I would shake my head and I feel like he's never going to play this game with me when you get home. They don't perform kids. Do not perform for your parents. Yeah. It's so early for people who don't

02:05 Exactly, right so I bring the games home and he would just like ignore me. And so I thought well, what can I do and like around this time. We went to a big gaming convention in Milwaukee Wisconsin to visit a friend of ours down there and I was wandering the hallways and I found this this games publisher and they had these really amazing games and they were they were all really focused on critical thinking and they weren't luck-based. They were they just had so much depth the so I picked him up and I brought them home and I thought well, we'll try this and it was the first time it was like unlocking his brain. He don't end of them had first he tried all of them. He went sailing with his sister and his brand new baby brother who is you know, three month old baby brother is like no no no, no,

03:05 And so this progresses and I'm playing games with my kid and he's playing now with his friends. And I remember when he was diagnosed the first time that the speech therapy. I remember the psychiatrist saying, you know, he has special needs and I vividly remember thinking to myself. This is a horrible explicit horrible like this is horrible. And and and that's because I grew up in the sixties and sew-in in the sixties and seventies if you were labeled as special needs kind of ostracize you were marginalized you were in her classroom. I didn't want that for my kid, right? I did not want that. So I remember thinking I have to do everything in my power to build him up and make him stronger make him more viable so that he can go out and be successful on his own and people love him for who he is and there's so much potential inside his brain, so

04:05 I started using these games and the teachers noticed as a speech therapist noticed and psychologist noticed and they were all like, oh, what are you doing? And so I started using these games. So that's that's like two thousand and fast forward 5 years later and still doing this. My husband says, you know what you have a business and I'm like, no I don't I'm a stay-at-home mom who's perfectly happy and he's like no no, no, you should open a business and it takes about a year, but we find a building and we open the doors and I started my store in 2006 in the Gaylord in Little Town of Sheboygan Wisconsin. And from that very moment of opening the doors. I think I I looked at the world differently. Like I didn't realize I was looking through all differently, but I looked at it differently. I would talk to customers and they would start to tell me the problem. They were having their kids and I would make suggestions and of course I get this. How are you a teacher? How are you a therapist?

05:05 No, I'm just a stay-at-home. Mom who are the games are now apparently, you know all along I was helping I was doing this for Eric so that he and Rachel and Alex could really just like Garland Bond and B each other's best friends and and have a world of friends in a year after we opened. I had a mom walk in and she was like, I have a problem. This is my child. She starts taking off the all these issues but Eric also came to you that your oh, yeah. He did he did he came to me that year and he said to me cuz I'll be like I am said that's what you could you don't know we've been playing a board game with him. We play Castle Panic at first I themes game and it was so cool that we're playing this game and also need like he's like,

06:02 Eric you need to separate your cards read cartridge because your screen card and he had a red green and a blue pile and he said that they are separated and I'm like, oh boy, so we all ran to the computer and we pulled a you know these days there's a circle has a circle and like oh my gosh, he didn't he didn't see any of it. And it was until you play Dashboard Light till you play Castle Panic here lies. The kid has a speech delay. He describes her child and I said, I can't come to us that point and said there's something else wrong and we realized there was a bigger thing happening and you know what it was cuz we talked about this before, you know something I'm still don't tell me he's not right and he'd be self-aware.

07:02 Be self-aware since it was like know something's still not right and then the woman randomly walks into your head or we still don't know who she is to the I don't I hope if she ever hears this this will come to me and say that was me cuz I don't have any idea what she changed it. She changed my world that day. She pulled up she said can I can I print a permission to come behind your counter and pull some stuff up on your computer? And so we pulled all this information up she printed it out. She goes go you teacher tomorrow and ask if I just go and ask and so I handed off the teacher in the morning at the lockers, you know, the lockers are slaving kids are arriving and there's all the stuff and this piece of paper and start reading shouldn't get halfway down. She looks me to this is Eric and I said I know and it was decided that it was dysgraphia, which is a neurological writing Disorder. So he has a his brain misfire.

08:02 In the information when it goes from his brain down his hand to come out on paper. It comes out wrong. Like it kill be his brain will misfire and he'll he'll put words in on the paper that he had seized through his his eyes or through his auditory ranges in until he is so he has is ocular messages coming through any of these auditory messages coming through are being filtered into his hand all at the same time and his brain doesn't comprehend that you're not supposed to write those things and it writes those things to so Eric was like like I think he felt this moment like we figured me out right we figured out this coming April, you know, there was no Bridges to his mouth because he had that speech delay. There's no Bridges to his hand and all this information is coming into his little brain and he's having to try and figure out how to get

09:02 All this information out and he was feeling empowered because we are playing games and he was in control. He didn't have to worry about that. Look based on what he could use his critical thinking skills. He could take his time. He knew he was valued right? He he said he would see it in his classroom is his friends would come and they beat everybody would raising their hands and answering questions and the teacher and students realized real early on that if Eric Grace just hand everybody stopped because Eric would have the answer. It just took a little bit longer to say it and they gave him that chance. Would you like to do it by playing games exactly confidence? He learned that he was right and he came out of it so beautifully, but he got the middle school. He got he had a problem after reading all the time and the teachers were like a got to stop reading and you need to pay attention in class and Eric would come home and we've been here in this for years from all the teachers every conference.

10:02 Didn't but he's always read it and I would always be like, okay, but that's a good problem. Right? And finally, I had one teacher this year who really pushed it and she was like he is sitting at the window. He's reading constantly and he's he's not paying attention either but he's reading right and she's like, yeah, but he's not making much I said no stop Eric. This is a safe Zone. You can tell your teacher what you tell me at home and he turned around he goes actually, I'm sorry, but your class is boring and she's like, she's like wait a minute and I said doesn't answer your questions, right? And she said every time and I said, okay. He's paying attention. He has a different way of producing the information and getting out and so

10:55 You know all these things I have learned all those years like right developing helping him develop and grow and this is his second degree. Like he's already done an associate's degree. He got in a job. He was having a good time, but then he realized you know what I really don't want to do that. I want to go back to school might become a computer programmer. I want to do something that's going to help he wants to do study a I can help other students who have problems he wants to help people because they have a disability or things are going on. He wants to help people or build games more design things in his right and he tells me that he wants to go to college and it's July 4th at 10 p.m. And I look at him. I'm like Eric, when's the cutoff? I'm pretty positive. It's over and he goes, well, it's tomorrow and I'm like are you kidding me?

11:55 Computer let's play you're going to write an essay buddy. And you're going to need some help here playing gameplay. Guess what your shop is all about. And now we work with people with you do I weigh safe from autism to all timers? Right? Because we want to work with all age ranges. It's not about it's not about. Oh you're kidding. You have a disability or you have a kid who has a fantastic ability. It's not about social skills. It's about all skills. We see the board games are completely different vehicle is a vehicle that you can use to to transcend so many different worlds because this isn't the first time that yours now or helped out a member of your family know another

12:45 Well, my son Alex and Beyond thousand eight. Yeah, my youngest he was hit by car and he came out of it with a traumatic brain injury, which he has once again been able to overcome his some I think memory concerns every once in awhile, but you went right back. We went right back to your bag of holding. Yeah, all the things you needed because you learned all of that stuff with Eric but but three are working at the store and with all these other things like all said it while he believes that your games and play can help now you can use them with Alex and like to help with his recovery and how all of the play-in games can exercise your mind. And then I think we were talking to what you just mention like how autism to Alzheimer's and how brain is play specifically is

13:41 You know, I think the difference between we talked about brain health. Yeah, and I think brain health becomes people think like flash cards and that's so not yeah, that's good for your brain is not good for your body for your school. And I would say play is good for your brain and your soul for 13 years. We we really talked about brain health and this year we we start a new tagline is here. So this year it's rantastic entertainment and that's like that's that's what we really want people to realize you had your heart at the same time. You're laughing your brain is engaged and you're going to remember and you know, just because you're we play the game my best friend's father has Parkinson's and we get together every every Labor Day though, the two families and this last Labor Day, there was one particular game that we were all playing and you know, his is

14:41 Ability isn't great so much anymore, but he it was a game that didn't require a lot of writing. It was a little bit me a little bit of reading and he was able to engage with the rest of the family in a way that you know, it can be difficult for him at times when the beautiful thing about those games. He has that if you're having a dexterity issue is you stop worrying about that problem and you start focusing on the thing that you're working on or the project that you're working on or the accomplishments that you're trying to play a Cooperative game. You're trying to get this thing done and you're so focused on the task at hand that you're no longer really worrying about your inside your not worry about yourself. And that's so huge. You know, they did they did a cohort study are France and they followed a whole city of people for 20 years and they found that the individuals were playing board games and card games at a 15% chance less of getting

15:41 Dementia 15% chance that is ginormous. That's huge. And when you look at the fact that when you're playing a board game in your car game, you're not isolating yourself, you're interacting with people your socializing you're having such a great connection the scary hit those folks can be all because they're in their homes and they're not able to engage with folks and I think that's a that's something that we talked about the board game industry people are like another this misconception about people who enjoy board games that were sort of these socially isolated nerds in the basement and it's face-to-face and play and talk to somebody who you're playing a Cooperative game where we're all working towards a common goal or I'm trying to beat the pants off you right about that defend myself against you or not, you know.

16:41 You know what something there's some engagement with you as a person that I'm having to work with and I'm going to learn a lot about you by how you do that and how you respond from that and at the same time. I'm helping my my brain is developing and I'm laughing about it. And that's another thing to me just the pure joy is healthy and in the building relationships, so we use these game programming at schools and we'll take in a teacher. Sometimes you want to set up PODS of people before I get there and I'm like can I just randomly assigned and they're like, oh, no, you know this kid and it don't get along and I'm like, well, those are the two kids that need to be at the table together and they're like, oh no no, no, no. No, I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, let me do what I do. I am an expert in this field. Let me do it. And what I'll do is I'll put these two kids who really don't like each other at the same table. And then while they're playing the game.

17:33 I can see the one going after the other end of Mike. Stop. Do you want to play the game? Yeah, do you want him to have fun playing the game or her? Yeah. Okay, then stop. Let's go. Let's try this again. Let's all enjoy this like take your time and I've noticed you know, sometimes kids who are getting more aggressive verbally, you know, they're into one thing or another like it there either the speakers are there not and so if you take the child who's having that moment he was getting a little more verbally aggressive and you put them in the game that they're uncomfortable with and they're like, oh I don't like this picture of seniors to like senior living centers say I don't like this thing that I've learned in this entire industry over the course of 13 years. Is that that's your brain telling you you should do it. Not you shouldn't so I have people all the time. I just need more practice. I need more practice. So I have people all the time say to me. I don't like that where I don't play games. I don't do this and you should be

18:33 You should wear wiglaf. That's my mother story. Is it you know, I don't do that. If you break a dish while you're doing the dishes. It just means you need more practice at it. So you were never going to get out of don't think they even have to do the dishes or just so you know, like if you're not good at it just keep doing it cuz you're supposed to be doing it more. She's a smart lady. Tell him I said that everything that also get to something else when we talked about but I think it's true for and I think it's interesting that we talked about kids and seniors, but I think it also goes to goes to everybody that's what I think is true, which is that idea of I can't or they're not capable right? I think we put that label on both of those population sometimes. Oh that's too advanced for the Mukesh. I hate that yet those seniors. That's a little more than they can handle. Yeah, and I think you know you I know you are at work with Alzheimer's Association, and I sure you get that one that's too and have a great story.

19:33 Special needs to know I sit on a number of words in our town. That's why I work with RCS empowers which is individuals adult individuals who need to get back into the workplace, but they all have special abilities and the dementia Care Network or I'm a member that it's and so there's there's a whole bunch of things. We we part are partnered with the dementia dementia-friendly Sheboygan County and we helped create dementia-friendly Sheboygan County beat the game board with heart of the people who created that and we really were all about trying to get individuals to come together and try something different. And so, you know, I you were at like an event or something. I'm sure you've had people who yeah who said to you that person can't do that or I can't have that person can't write and so when when you have somebody saying I can't do that. That's a problem. So I had to I had this individual they came in.

20:33 The caregiver and they were sitting at the table and you know what, you know, nonverbals, right? So the person who can speak and of course, I had a nonverbal child early, but but he spoke so it's really no different as an adult who literally just can't speak. I was excited. I'm like who this is a new area. I've never worked with here. I'm getting challenged to try a game with a non-verbal individual. So she brought this young man in and we start playing this game and and it was a balancing game. And so I was asking him to put specific colored balls on the hands of this this this clown and I start saying to him will pick up the red ball and she said, oh he can't he doesn't know his colors and he he he made focus with me and my eyes and he just leaned forward and I thought oh,

21:33 We're going to teach her a lesson. And I said, okay and I just looked at her and smiled and I said so the red ball and he reached down and picked up the red block and start to put it on the hand and she goes no I didn't think know he newest colors and I'm like, no kidding. Right? And so then I said well, you know here grab a yellow ball and this time I said to him put it on the clowns left hand facing him and he picked up the yellow one and he put it on the clowns left hand and she goes, I didn't know he knew his left from his right. I said you didn't know he knew his colors you didn't know is left from his right and you didn't know he New Perspective because he put it on the clowns left hand not his left hand and she looked at me and she turned and she walked out of the room and he was like he kind of feeling bored and back and forward and back and got so excited.

22:33 You're my favorite friend right now. This is so fantastic, but nobody done locked him. He was inside there and he needed to be unlocked. It's so frustrating iuic individuals like this and I I feel like I'm in a can't be there if it's a race or try to teach as many people as possible write how to do it. But I just I just wanted to hug that man that day like dude. Yeah. I love you. I love you like you're there. So I think that's what's so cool about your store. And we like it. I think people also have a perception not just we talked about this is not just a gamer's being like sitting alone in a basement. But of game stores being was dark and dingy and you know places where are you? Do you only go and play that girl playing games and ENT and it's great, but my father is 78

23:26 I'm this year actually in like 2 weeks are in a week. Happy birthday. And you know what? He's not a huge boarding. Where was a big board game family is going to get together every holiday. We play a game but there was never a huge game party like to play poker like to place a certain card games. But you know when we would break out the actual games, he was like, yeah, I'm just going to be over here in the more recent hip past week has been started getting gravitating into something showing him these new things and as we're going up my best friend and I we go away for Labor Day weekend and we happen to drive through your fair Town show up one day. I'll end up over here. Are you so surprised by that? I don't like 400 up there and my parents who don't have not been to your store. That's a 2 and 1/2 hour drive is so it's not like I live down the street go ahead and just randomly show up at your place with my parents in tow and you know, the first one

24:25 Sila capitulo slight there's windows. It's not Dusty and I use a lot of stores like that people don't realize they don't and then it was so cute. My dad picked up a funny little dice game and loved it. And then we were had to play it for all weekend. We were playing pass the pandas and and that's like it was his new favorite game for 5 days and but you know, there's something for everybody there is either my father who is not a gamer can walk into your store, right and my and find something fun and engaging my mother can walk into your store and feel comfortable and welcomed and then, you know, I can play in your store and I can walk in and I've been there when it's there's a an 8 year old and a seven-year-old sitting there playing with the chief of police and laugh again, we laughed our butts off but we're having plane games that are working on our communication skills working on Arts room team building working on a critical thinking we might know I mean

25:25 So we don't know if you remember the other adults were on the table. That's what we're doing. Right? I know that's what we're doing. And you know, that's all they know is were laughing and having a good time right and you know any gauging gauging and I think that's that's the other thing to that particular games don't have to be a specific, you know, 18 have a game that an eight and nine-year-old. We're going to Love and Enjoy but as a Loctite a fifty-year-old 65 year old woman is also going to enjoy it. You don't have to play games with your children or your nieces and nephew don't need it down there smart. You know, this one thing is I realize real early on with Eric was that if I was picking out games that were quote-unquote for little kids. They were a failure. But if I was picking out games that as an adult, I want to sit down and play with him suddenly the world was his oyster and he would play I Remember real early on when is very young when he was in that 4 year old range. He been watching his dad played.

26:25 Little card game. That was I know I've been out at that point for probably like eight years. Yeah. Probably eight years. No, no. No, was it for 4 years? I'll do math now 94 +959-697-989-2087 years I can math and he was play Magic and he kept watching his sister was watching they liked the idea. So one afternoon, I made these simple color number decks and I made them each their own deck and then I made my husband to die. And when my when my husband came home that afternoon they were standing in the kitchen holding their texts and my husband look to me is like to play their kids here is your back and he's like, no, I don't like yeah, they can play and they've been playing ever since.

27:25 A kid who's working on his Killers. I'm like, that's when I realized like games need to be engaging for the adult and for the kid because if they're not engaging for the child then or for the adult, why would the child play it and if they're not engaging enough for the child, why would the adult sit down and play two games or for lack of better words therapies? Yeah, try and make the therapies fun rather than find that there are better game again for like a word products but toys and games out there that can be used therapeutically. So I think it's one of the chicken or the egg something and try and turn it into turn light on.

28:25 To make it therapeutic you can find things that are already fun and find how they can be used to notice. Therapeutically. There's a there's a game called thumbs up its by blue orange and I use it with my seniors who are in late late-stage dementia. So I think I've seen a husband and wife are local Art Center they do it. What's call the spark program were sitting there playing in the husband had I'd ask him to give her his thumb. So that meant now Not only was she trying to find the colors but she was engaging physical touch with him which late-stage Alzheimer's or dementia. That's that's something you try and lay people as they start to progress in that direction. Sometimes they don't want to be talking to me don't touch so I wanted to

29:25 Care to engage with him physically again. And so we're playing this game and she's picking up the colors and she's putting them on Earth is done. Now. This is a woman who once again was a non-verbal and all she was doing was singing it appear that it's all she ever did was thing at this point. There's a beauty she's singing she's singing and she's singing and she's singing and she's she's like, he said he was concerned cuz he's like, I don't think she knows aren't colors in her numbers and has dementia progresses. You lose your numbers, you lose your color knife, you lose all the stuff. So this is a great way to bring connect back to that. So he's got his thumb up and he's putting she's putting the color rings on and she's she's doing this and he's looking at me and he's smiling and he turned and she turns and she looks at him also she stop singing.

30:22 And she goes she has she's holding a stomach.

30:27 Remember and he looked at her and what and she goes.

30:33 The cabin and we played games and it goes we did he start crying and she goes I loved playing games at the cabin and she went right back to thinking and he said to me a few minutes later. He got me aside and he goes she hasn't spoken to me in 2 years. Yeah, but it's like connect me to talk about that with you have parents with dementia and things like that. You never know. What opens that door a little bit and we just have to keep trying you said that you never know. What's going to hit that right park and in any way that you can engage with someone.

31:14 You know, you meet people where they are. Yeah. Yeah, you know how to meet people where they are. And and and if you can use a game, you're not only Reaching Across the golf. You're you're focusing on a new thing together. You're you're doing a new adventure together, you're being cooperative you're communicating and you're making friends like all the time. You can sit down with complete and utter stranger and play a game and you will walk away from that table with a brand new memory and a brand new friend like it's so amazing games are fantastic fun. I made a friend but what I think people forget is that they also it's not wasted time. You have not asked not I mean people recognize the value of this in this but it's like no but you just exercised your brain to realize that your staving off, you know your

32:14 Showtimers you are you know stretching the bounds of what you don't like to your point earlier. If you're not so good at its spatial things. Maybe you should play more spatial games if you're not so good at math. Maybe you should play some more Mathewson Speed games cuz math is a great day and they're finding now actually they're finding neurologically that if you are having dementia issues in your family, you should be doing speed games games are actually the way to help bring it because you're having your brain has happened too quickly think back and forth and back and forth back and forth. And that's that is one of the pieces they found is helping so, you know go and try something new and if you hate it when you know, what listen listen to your heart, not your head do it. Anyways, I think that's where a place like the game board is so powerful because you go in there and you can just try it and you can try it with people who want to be there and want to show you and are excited to share. My favorite is to find your

33:14 Right. Yeah, but you go in there and you can you can sit down with someone and and they're willing to be just like I'm so happy you're and I think that's the thing right? You're just so happy you're there and let's sit down and let's play together and let's share that moment and find what makes you happy and have a laugh and maybe exercise our brains for a second. But let's just laugh our butts off. Oh, yeah and be there just be there in the moment. Yeah. I'll be there in a moment.

33:41 You know, I I just want to say that this has been such a fantastic Toy Association New York trip and thanks Monday cuz you actually made it happen. You helped me you made you believe in me and I

33:59 You know in a time when it's hard to be retailer. Yeah, and it's really hard to own a store and it's really hard when you're living in a Tiny Town of 50,000 people in Sheboygan, Wisconsin an hour from Green Bay in your hour from Milwaukee and there is nothing around you but cows and cheese and churches and and children you have a you know, Kings your children there an inspiration for you, but for other people, I mean you got some really cool kids and a great family. I have great kids and I like to say that, you know, I have great kids but they're not just my three. Yeah. I have a whole building full of grape jam and they're all ages Menthol address of the kids and adults. We have such an age range. We we go in our store from like 4 to 90s we have lot

34:59 Customers that are older and I just love that so so it will thanks for coming. I'm glad you could make it. I mean, it's always good to talk and you're the bomb diggity gluten-free.