Mindy Baker and Lynn Potyen

[00:02] MINDY BAKER: I'm Mindy Baker I'm 42, and today's February 23rd, 2020. I'm in New York for the Toy Association's toy fair, and I'm here with my friend Lynn

[00:12] LYNN POTYEN: I'm Lynn podian, and I'm 53.

[00:15] MINDY BAKER: I'm.

[00:16] LYNN POTYEN: Oh. It's February 23rd, 2020, and I'm also in New York at the toy fair for the first time, and I'm with my friend Mindy and I'm excited about this. Yeah. It's your first toy fair. It's my first toy fair, and I get to spend it with you. Yay.

[00:32] MINDY BAKER: It's so funny. Is. I can't believe. So this is your first toy fair.

[00:34] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[00:36] MINDY BAKER: But you have had your shop now you have a game shop. Game store.

[00:40] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[00:41] MINDY BAKER: You've had it for 13 years.

[00:43] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah, 13 years.

[00:45] MINDY BAKER: And so why did you start your shop?

[00:47] LYNN POTYEN: I started my store for the love of my child. Four.

[00:54] MINDY BAKER: So you have three. Three children?

[00:56] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[00:57] MINDY BAKER: So your oldest?

[00:58] LYNN POTYEN: My oldest. My oldest, Eric. I have three kids. Eric, Rachel and Alex. And that's okay.

[01:06] MINDY BAKER: I know.

[01:07] LYNN POTYEN: Proud momma moment.

[01:08] MINDY BAKER: Oh, yeah. I mean, your family is so cool, and they're all involved in your life in different ways, and I know that. So, like, I know Eric, when he was younger, had some difficulties, as lots of kids do. Right. And you came up with some really cool ways to help him.

[01:24] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah. And he was our firstborn, and we were in a different state and from our family, and he was 4 years old, and he had a severe speech delay, but I didn't realize it. I didn't realize it for a long time. And then I started using. Like, I started going. We went to a speech therapist, and he got tested, and I watched her playing games with him. And then she would be like, oh, he loves this game. Take it home. And I would shake my head and I'd be like, he's never gonna play this game with me when we get home. They don't perform. Kids do not perform for your parents. Yeah.

[02:03] MINDY BAKER: So they're only good for people who don't. Who don't live in the same house with them.

[02:06] LYNN POTYEN: Exactly. Right. So I bring the games home, and he would just, like, ignore me. And so I thought, well, what can I do? And, like, around this time period, we went to a big gaming convention in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to visit a friend of ours down there. And I was wandering the hallways, and I found this games publisher, and they had these really amazing games, and they were all really focused on critical thinking, and they weren't luck based they were, they just had so much depth to them. So I picked them up and I brought them home and I thought, well, we'll try this. And it was the first time. It was like unlocking his brain. He dove into them headfirst. He tried all of them. He wanted to play them with his sister and his brand new baby brother who is, you know, three months old and baby brother is like, no, no, no small parts would recommend. No, no, no small parts, right. And so like, this progresses and I'm playing games with my kid and he's playing now with his friends. And I remember when he was diagnosed the first time with the speech therapy. I remember the psychiatrist saying, you know, he has special needs. And I vividly remember thinking to myself, this is a horrible. This is horrible. Like, this is horrible. And that's because I grew up in the 60s. And so in the 60s and 70s, if you were labeled as special needs, you were kind, kind of ostracized, you were marginalized, you were classroom.

[03:45] MINDY BAKER: Yeah, yeah. We didn't understand.

[03:47] LYNN POTYEN: I didn't want that for my kid.

[03:49] MINDY BAKER: Right.

[03:49] LYNN POTYEN: I did not want that for my children at all. So I remember thinking, I have to do everything in my power to build him up and make him stronger, make him more viable so that he can go out and be successful on his own and people will love him for who he is. And there's so much potential inside his brain. So I started using these games and the teachers noticed and the speech therapist noticed and the psychologist noticed and they were all like, oh, what are you doing? And so I started using these games. So that's, that's like 2000, right? And fast forward five years later, I'm still doing this. My husband says, you know, you have a business. And I'm like, no, I don't. I'm a stay at home mom who's perfectly happy. And he's like, no, no, no, you should, you should open a business. And it takes about a year, but we find a building and we opened the doors and I started my store in 2006. And the game board, yeah, the game board in little town of Sheboygan, Wisconsin. And from that very moment of opening the doors, I think I looked at the world differently. I didn't realize I was looking at the world differently, but I looked at it differently. I would talk to customers and they would start to tell me the problems they were having with their kids. And I would make suggestions and of course I'd get this. Oh, are you a teacher? Oh, are you a therapist? Oh, are you this. And I'm like, no, I'm just a stay at home mom who has a game store now, apparently. And, you know, all along I was helping. I was doing this for Eric so that he and Rachel and Alex could really, like, grow and bond and be each other's best friends and have a world of friends. And a year after we opened, I had a mom walk in and she was like, I have a problem. This is my child. And she starts ticking off all these issues.

[05:32] MINDY BAKER: But Eric also came to you that year.

[05:35] LYNN POTYEN: Oh, yeah, he did. He did. He came to me that year and he said to me, because that graduated, right? Yeah, he'd graduated from speech therapy.

[05:41] MINDY BAKER: Right. Like, they had said that.

[05:43] LYNN POTYEN: He's good, he's good. He's fine. Yeah, that was the end. Yeah, that was the end of, like, his third grade year, beginning of his fourth grade year. That had happened the year before. And he. And. And at that point, he'd also been. We'd been playing a board game with him. We played Castle Panic.

[05:56] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[05:56] LYNN POTYEN: Fireside Games game. And it was so cool. We were playing this game, and all of a sudden he's like. He's like, eric, you need to separate your cards. There's red cards, there's blue cards, there's green cards. And he had them in a red, green, and a blue pile. And he said, they are separated. And I'm like, oh, boy. So we all ran to the computer and we pulled up, you know, those circle tests, those circle tests, the colorblind tests. And like, oh, my gosh, he didn't see any. But he was a red, green, colorblind child.

[06:25] MINDY BAKER: So the kid was in third grade. And it wasn't until you played a board game, until you played Castle Panic, you realize the kid is colorblind, Colorblind.

[06:31] LYNN POTYEN: So he had speech delay. He had colorblindness. And then in 2007, this woman describes her child. And I said, but Eric had come to you. Yeah, he had come to us at that point and said, there's something else wrong. And we realized there was a bigger thing happening and you didn't know what it was. We had no idea.

[06:49] MINDY BAKER: I love this part of the story because we've talked about this before. You know, he came to you and said, mom, you know, something's. I'm still. Don't. Something's not right. And he's pretty self aware.

[06:57] LYNN POTYEN: He was incredibly self aware as A kid at 11 years old. A boy at 11 years old. To be self aware, to say, what's going on?

[07:04] MINDY BAKER: Something you Know, like, therapy's over because most kids don't want to go. And he was like, no, man, something's still not right with me. Cause, like, I mean, most adults are like, I'm not going back there. I'm done. And this kid was like, no, something's still not right. And then this woman randomly walks into your store. We still don't know who she is to this day.

[07:20] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah, I don't. I hope if she ever hears this, that she'll come to me and say, that was me, because I don't have any idea. But she changed. She changed my world that day.

[07:27] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[07:28] LYNN POTYEN: She pulled up, she said, can I. Can I have permission to come behind your counter and pull some stuff up on your computer? And so we pulled all this information up. She printed it out. She goes, go to your teacher tomorrow and ask. Just go and ask. And so I hand it off to the teacher in the morning at the lockers. You know, the lockers are slamming, the kids are arriving, and there's all this stuff going on. And I hand her this piece of paper, and I'm like, you know, look at this. And she starts reading halfway down. She looks at. She goes, this is Eric. And I said, I know.

[07:54] MINDY BAKER: And it was.

[07:54] LYNN POTYEN: I'm so excited. It was dysgraphia, which is a neurological writing disorder. So he has a. His brain misfires, and the information, when it goes from his brain down his hand to come out on paper, it comes out wrong. Like, it. He'll be. His brain will misfire, and he'll. He'll put words in on the paper that he had. Sees through his. His eyes or through his auditory ranges, and he'll. He's. So he has these ocular messages coming through, and he has these auditory messages coming through, and they all are being filtered into his hand all at the same time. And his brain doesn't comprehend that you're not supposed to write those things, and it writes those things, too. So Eric was like. I think he felt this moment like, we figured me out, right? We figured out this because mom owns a store. Well, yeah. And, you know, my. Yeah. And my poor son's brain was like an escape room. You know, there was no bridges to his mouth because he had that speech delay, and there's no bridges to his hand, and all this information is coming into his little brain, and he's having to try and figure out how to get all this information out. And he was feeling empowered because we were playing games, and he was in control. He didn't have to worry about that luck based element. He could use his critical thinking skills. He could take his time. He knew that he was valued.

[09:15] MINDY BAKER: Right.

[09:16] LYNN POTYEN: He would see it in his classroom as his friends would come and they'd be everybody raising their hands and answering questions. And the teacher and the students realized real early on that if Eric raised his hand, everybody stopped because Eric would have the answer. It just took him a little bit longer to say it. And they gave him that chance.

[09:33] MINDY BAKER: But he learned those skills by playing games.

[09:35] LYNN POTYEN: By playing games. Exactly. He learned the confidence, he learned that he was right. And he came out of it so beautifully. When he got to middle school, he had a problem. He kept reading all the time. And his teachers were like, hey, gotta stop reading and you need to pay attention to us in class. And Eric would come home and we'd been hearing this for years from all the teachers every conference we went to. Eric's such a good student, but he's always reading. And I would always be like, okay, bud, that's a good problem. Right? And finally we had one teacher this year who really pushed it. And she was like, he is sitting at the window, he's reading constantly and he's not paying attention. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. You jumped to a conclusion there. You said, he's not paying attention. Is he looking out the window? And she's like, no, he's reading his book. I said, but he's reading, right? And she's like, yeah, but he's not paying attention. I said, no, stop. Eric, this is a safe zone. You can tell your teacher what you tell me at home. And he turned to her and he goes, actually, I'm sorry, but your class is boring. And she's like, wait a minute. And I said, does he answer your questions right? And she said, every time. And I said, okay, then he's paying attention. He has a different way of producing the information and getting it out. And so, you know, I. All these things I learned all those years, like, right, Developing. Helping him develop and grow critical skills. Yeah, yeah. And here, I mean, now he's 23 this past summer.

[11:06] MINDY BAKER: He's excited.

[11:07] LYNN POTYEN: He's in college. He's in college. And this is his second degree. Like, he's already done an associate's degree. He'd gotten a job, he was having a good time. But then he realized, you know what? I really don't want to do that. I want to go back to school. I want to become a computer programmer. I want to do something that's going to help he wants to study AI so he can help other students who have problems. He wants to help people because they have a disability or things are going on. He wants to help people or build games or design things. And he's constantly right. And he tells me that he wants to go to College. And it's July 4th at 10pm And I look at him and I'm like, eric, when's the cutoff? I'm pretty positive it's over. And he goes, well, it's tomorrow. And I'm like, oh, my God, are you kidding me? I said, eric, I guess you have to go get your computer. Let's. You're gonna have to write an essay, buddy, and you're gonna need some help.

[11:58] MINDY BAKER: But all these skills, you know, he.

[12:00] LYNN POTYEN: Did, he learned by playing. Yeah, yeah.

[12:02] MINDY BAKER: The writing skills, the critical thinking skills, working with a team, all of these things you learn playing games. And that's what your shop is all about. Is all about.

[12:10] LYNN POTYEN: And now we work with people with, you know, I always say, from autism through Alzheimer's.

[12:15] MINDY BAKER: Right.

[12:16] LYNN POTYEN: Because we want to work with all age ranges. It's not about. It's not about, oh, you're a kid and you have a disability or you have a kid who has a fantastic ability. It's not about social skills. It's about all skills. We see that board games are completely different vehicle. It's a vehicle that you can use to transcend so many different worlds.

[12:40] MINDY BAKER: Cause this isn't the first time that your store helped out a member of your family, right?

[12:43] LYNN POTYEN: No, no.

[12:44] MINDY BAKER: Cause you had another.

[12:45] LYNN POTYEN: Well, my son Alex in 2008. Yeah. My youngest, he was hit by a car and he came out of it with a traumatic brain injury, which he's once again been able to overcome. He has some, I think, memory concerns every once in a while.

[13:01] MINDY BAKER: But you went right back to.

[13:02] LYNN POTYEN: But we went right back to tools.

[13:03] MINDY BAKER: Yeah. I was laughing with you last night. We were talking and I said, yeah, you already have the tools in your toolbox, but to use a gamer thing, the tools in your bag of holding, right. Like, you earned those tools, all the things you needed because you learned all of that stuff with Eric. But. But through your work in the store and with all these other things like.

[13:18] LYNN POTYEN: And all these other wonderful ways that.

[13:21] MINDY BAKER: Games and play can help now, you can use them with Alex and help with his recovery and how all of the play and games can exercise your mind. And then I think we were talking too, and what you just mentioned, like how autism to Alzheimer's and how brain is play, specifically Is, you know, I think the difference between. We talk about brain health.

[13:44] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[13:45] MINDY BAKER: And I think brain health becomes. People think like flashcards, and that's so not fun.

[13:52] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[13:52] MINDY BAKER: That's good for your brain. It's not good for your body, for your soul. And I always say play is good for your brain and your soul.

[13:58] LYNN POTYEN: For 13 years, we've. We've really talked about brain health. And this year, we started a new tagline. This year. So this year, it's braintastic entertainment.

[14:08] MINDY BAKER: Right.

[14:09] LYNN POTYEN: And. And that's, like. That's. That's what we really want people to realize.

[14:12] MINDY BAKER: Your head and your heart at the same time.

[14:14] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[14:14] MINDY BAKER: Your whole body. Your brain's gonna come along for the ride. When you're laughing, your brain is engaged.

[14:19] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[14:19] MINDY BAKER: And you're gonna remember. And, you know, just because you're. We played a game. My best friend's father has Parkinson's. And we get together every. Every Labor Day, the two families. And this last Labor Day, there was one particular game that we were all playing. And, you know, his mobility isn't great so much anymore, but it was a game that didn't require a lot of writing. It was a little bit, you know, a little bit of reading, a little bit of communication. He could do that with us. That game we played all weekend, and we sat and we laughed, and he was able to engage with the rest of the family in a way that, you know, can be difficult for him at times.

[14:59] LYNN POTYEN: Well, and the beautiful thing about those games is that if you're having a dexterity issue is you stop worrying about that problem and you start focusing on the thing that you're working on or the project that you're working on, or the accomplishments that you're trying to play a cooperative game, and you're trying to get this thing done, and you're so focused on the task at hand that you're no longer really worrying about your inside. You're not worrying about yourself. And that's so huge. You know, they did a cohort study out of France, and they followed a whole city of people for 20 years, and they found that the individuals who were playing board games and card games, they had a 15% chance less of getting dementia. 15% chance. That is ginormous. That's huge. And when you look at the fact that when you're playing a board game and your card game, you're not isolating yourself, you're interacting with people, you're socializing, you're having such a great connection.

[15:58] MINDY BAKER: Well, and we talk about that. That's a big conversation these days with the senior population is the isolation in our senior population and the loneliness that those folks can feel because they're in their homes and they're not able to engage with folks. And I think that's something that we talk about in the board game industry. People are like, there's this misconception about people who enjoy board games that we're sort of these socially isolated nerds in the basement, and it's.

[16:21] LYNN POTYEN: We're not.

[16:21] MINDY BAKER: Well, the whole point, right? I mean, the whole point is you have to sit and engage with someone. You have to sit there face to face and play and talk to someone. Whether you're playing a cooperative game where we're all working towards a common goal, or I'm trying to beat the pants off you, I gotta talk to you about that, you know, or defend myself against you or, you know, you know something, there's some engagement with you as a person that I'm having to work with. And I'm gonna learn a lot about you by how you do that and how you respond from that. And at the same time, I'm, you know, helping. My brain is developing and I'm laughing about it. And that's another thing too. I mean, just the pure joy is healthy. And you're in the.

[17:01] LYNN POTYEN: And you're building relationships.

[17:03] MINDY BAKER: Absolutely.

[17:03] LYNN POTYEN: So we use these. We do game programming at schools and we'll take in. I have teachers sometimes who want to set up pods of people before I get there. And I'm like, can I just randomly assign. And they're like, oh, no, no, no. You know, this kid and this kid don't get along. And I'm like, well, those are the two kids that need to be at the table together. And they're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me do what I do. I am an expert in this field. Let me do it. And what I'll do is I'll put these two kids who really don't like each other at the same table. And then while they're playing the game, I can see the one going after the other. And I'm like, stop. Do you want to play the game? Yeah. Do you want him to have fun playing the game or her? Well, yeah, let's come back. Let's try this again. Let's all enjoy this. Like, take your time. And I've noticed, you know, sometimes kids who are getting more aggressive verbally, you know, they're, they're. They're into one thing or Another, like, they're either into speed games or they're not. And so if you take the child who's having that moment, who's getting a little more verbally aggressive, and you put them at the game that they're uncomfortable with, and they're like, oh, I don't like this. Now I get this from seniors, too. Like, seniors in living centers, they'll say, I don't like this. You know, the one thing that I've learned in this entire industry over the course of the 13 years is that that's your brain telling you you should do it, not you shouldn't. So I have people all the time.

[18:26] MINDY BAKER: You just need more practice, Right?

[18:27] LYNN POTYEN: I need more practice. So I have people all the time say to me, oh, well, I don't like that, or I don't play games, or I don't do this. And I'm like, well, you should be. You should.

[18:34] MINDY BAKER: Well, I always laugh. That's my mother's story is, you know, I don't do. If you break a dish while you're doing the dishes, it just means you need more practice at it. So you were never going to get out of. Don't think that breaking the dish was going to mean you didn't have to do the dishes. You're just going to have to do it more. So, you know, like, if you're not good at it, just keep doing it because you're supposed to be doing it more.

[18:49] LYNN POTYEN: She's a smart lady.

[18:50] MINDY BAKER: Yeah. Gosh. It's on camera. It's on tape now. She didn't know I said that.

[18:54] LYNN POTYEN: Hi, Mom.

[18:56] MINDY BAKER: But, yeah, I mean, I think that's. And I think that also gets to something else when we talk about. I think it's true for. And I think it's interesting as we talk about kids and we're talking about seniors, but I think it also goes to. It goes to everybody.

[19:06] LYNN POTYEN: Absolutely.

[19:06] MINDY BAKER: But I think it's true, which is that idea of I can't or they're not capable.

[19:10] LYNN POTYEN: Right.

[19:10] MINDY BAKER: I think we put that label on both of those populations sometimes, like, oh, that's too advanced for those seniors or those seniors. That's a little more than they can handle.

[19:22] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[19:22] MINDY BAKER: And I think, you know, I know you have work with the Alzheimer's association, and I'm sure you get that. Well, that's too. You know, they can't do that. They're there and all.

[19:31] LYNN POTYEN: I have a great story. I had an individual with special needs. Now, I sit on a number of boards in our town, so I work with RCS empowers, which is individuals, adult individuals who need to get back into the workplace, but they all have special abilities. And the Dementia Care Network, I'm a member of that. And so there's a whole bunch of things. We are partnered with the Dementia Friendly Sheboygan county, and we helped create Dementia Friendly Sheboygan County. The game board was part of the people who created that. And we really. We're all about trying to get individuals to come together and try something different. And so, you know, I.

[20:16] MINDY BAKER: So you were at, like, an event or something, and I'm sure you've had people who've said to you, that person can't do that, or, I can't have. That person can't, right?

[20:24] LYNN POTYEN: And so when you have somebody saying, I can't do that, that's a problem. So I had this individual, they came in with a caregiver, and they were sitting at the table, and, you know, nonverbals, right? So as a person who can't speak, and of course, I had a nonverbal child early, but he spoke. So it's really no different. As an adult who literally just can't speak, I was excited. I'm like, ooh, this is a new area I've never worked with here. I'm getting challenged to try a game with a nonverbal individual. So she brought this young man in, and we started playing this game, and it was a balancing game. And so I was asking him to put specific colored balls on the hands of this clown. And I started saying to him, well, pick up the red ball. And she said, oh, he can't. He doesn't know his colors. And he made focus with me in my eyes, and he just leaned forward, and I thought, oh, we're gonna show her. We're gonna teach her a lesson. And I said, okay. And I just looked at her, I smiled, and I said, so the red ball. And he reached down, picked up the red block, and started to put it on the hand. And she goes, wow, I didn't know he knew his colors. And I'm like, no kidding, right? And so then I said, well, here, grab. Get a yellow ball. And this time I said to him, put it on the clown's left hand. Now the clown's facing him. And he immediately picked up the yellow one, and he put it on the clown's left hand. And she goes, I didn't know he knew his left from his right. I said, you didn't know he knew his colors? You didn't know his left from his right? And you didn't know he knew perspective because he put it on the clown's left hand, not his left hand. And she looked at me and she turned and she walked out of the room. And he was like, he kind of, he leaned forward and back and forward and back and got so excited. He was laughing. And I was like, buddy, you're my favorite friend right now. This is so fantastic. But nobody had unlocked him, right? He was inside there and he needed to be unlocked. It's so frustrating. I see individuals like this and I feel like, I mean, I can't be there to fix everybody. So I try to teach as many people as possible how to do it. But I just wanted to hug that man that day. Like, dude, yeah, I love you. I love you. Like you're there. So.

[23:01] MINDY BAKER: But I think that's what's so cool about your store. And we talked about it. I think people also have a perception, not just, we've talked about this, not just of gamers being like sitting alone in a basement, but of game stores being these dark and dingy and you know, places where, you know, you only go and play like role playing games and D and D and stuff like that, which don't get me wrong, DD's awesome, but.

[23:21] LYNN POTYEN: No, it's great.

[23:22] MINDY BAKER: But you know, like, you have some. So my father is 78 this year actually in like two weeks or in a week.

[23:29] LYNN POTYEN: Happy birthday. Happy birthday.

[23:31] MINDY BAKER: And you know, he's not a huge board gamer. We're always a big board game family. Us, you know, get together every holiday, we play a game. But dad was never a huge game person. He liked to play poker, he liked to play certain card games. But you know, when we would break out the actual games, he was like, yeah, I'm just going to be over here. In the more recent. His past recently he's been sort of getting gravitating into because I'm kind of showing him these new things. And as we were going up, as I mentioned, my best friend's family and I, we go away for Labor Day weekend and we happen to drive through your fair town and stop at your store, show up one day. Hey, Lynn guess what? We're here.

[24:04] LYNN POTYEN: I was so surprised by that.

[24:06] MINDY BAKER: I know, like, hi. And we show up there and my parents, you know, having not been to your store.

[24:11] LYNN POTYEN: Hey wait, let's back up for a second. That's a two and a half hour drive.

[24:14] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[24:15] LYNN POTYEN: So it's not like I live down the street. No, go ahead.

[24:17] MINDY BAKER: No, no. We did just randomly show up at your place with my parents in tow. And you know, first of all, my mom was like, this place is really nice. Yes. There's light, there's windows, it's not dusty. And I think there's a lot of stores like that. People don't realize.

[24:30] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah, they don't.

[24:31] MINDY BAKER: And then it was so cute. My dad picked up a funny little dice game and loved it. And then we had to play it for all weekend. We were playing past the pandas and that's like was his new favorite game for five days. But there's something for everybody.

[24:48] LYNN POTYEN: There is.

[24:48] MINDY BAKER: And my father, who's not a gamer, can walk into your store and find something fun and engaging. My mother can walk into your store and feel comfortable and welcomed. And then I can play in your store and I can walk in and I've been there when It's. There's an 8 year old and a 7 year old sitting there playing with the chief of police, right?

[25:09] LYNN POTYEN: Yes. Oh my God.

[25:10] MINDY BAKER: We all sit at the table and play a game together and laugh again, laugh our butts off. But we're having, playing games that are working on our communication skills, working on our sort of team building, working on our critical thinking. We don't know. I mean I'm not telling this.

[25:26] LYNN POTYEN: No, we don't know it frankly.

[25:27] MINDY BAKER: I'm not telling the other adults around the team that that's what we're doing. I know that's what we're doing and you know that's what we're doing. All they know is we're laughing and having a good time.

[25:34] LYNN POTYEN: Right.

[25:34] MINDY BAKER: And you know, I think.

[25:35] LYNN POTYEN: And engaging.

[25:35] MINDY BAKER: And engaging. And I think that's, you know, that's the other thing too, that particular games don't have to be age specific. You know, you can have a game that an 8 and 9 year old are going to love and enjoy but.

[25:50] LYNN POTYEN: Alongside a 50 year old, a 65.

[25:52] MINDY BAKER: Year old woman is also going to enjoy. You don't have to play games with your children or your nieces and nephews.

[25:59] LYNN POTYEN: You don't need to dumb it down. Kids are smart.

[26:01] MINDY BAKER: Oh yeah.

[26:02] LYNN POTYEN: You know, that's one thing I realized real early on with Eric was that if I was picking out games that were, quote, unquote, four little kids, they were a failure. But if I was picking out games that as an adult I wanted to sit down and play with him, suddenly the world was his oyster and he would play. I remember real early on when he was very young, when he was in that four year old range, he'd been watching his dad Play this little card game that was. I don't know, he'd been out at that point for probably like eight years. Yeah, probably eight years. No, no, no, it wasn't. It had only been out for four years. I'll do math now. 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 2000. Okay, seven years. I can math. And here he was watching his dad play magic.

[26:46] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[26:46] LYNN POTYEN: And it's a game for 14 year olds, 13 year olds. Right. And up. And he kept watching and his sister was watching and they liked the idea. So one afternoon I made these simple color number decks and I made them each their own deck. And then I made my husband a deck. And when my, when my husband came home that afternoon, they were standing in the kitchen holding their decks, going, daddy, daddy, we know how to play magic. Can we go play now? And my husband looked at me, he's like, you're kidding me. And I'm like, nope, go play with your kids. Here's your deck. And he's like, I know. And I'm like, yeah, they can play. And they've been playing ever since.

[27:20] MINDY BAKER: And so how old was Eric at that point?

[27:23] LYNN POTYEN: He was about five, four or five. Yeah.

[27:24] MINDY BAKER: And so you've got a kid who's working on his. At that language and colors. Yeah, well, numbers and colors. At that point, we didn't know he was colorblind.

[27:31] LYNN POTYEN: Right. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, we didn't know he's colorblind at that point. Yeah. So I mean, really, to see him like. So that's when I realized, like, games need to be engaging for the adult and for the kid, because if they're not engaging for the child then or for the adult, why would the child play it? And if they're not engaging enough for the child, why would the adults sit down and play it too?

[27:53] MINDY BAKER: And I think that gets to the point we were talking about when we first sat down, which is, you know, you have these sometimes games or for lack of a better word, therapies. But they try and make the therapies fun rather than find that there are better games, again, for lack of a word, products. But toys and games out there that can be used therapeutically.

[28:15] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[28:15] MINDY BAKER: So I think it's sort of the chicken or the egg kind of thing, the cart before the horse, like don't. You don't need to find something and try and turn it into, you know, turn it fun to make it therapeutic. You can find things that are already fun and find how they can be.

[28:29] LYNN POTYEN: Used and be used therapeutically. There's a. There's a game called Thumbs Up. It's by Blue Orange, and I use it with my seniors who are in late. Late stage dementia.

[28:41] MINDY BAKER: Oh, I think I've seen. Were you the one telling me about this or somebody? I saw a video one time of seniors with dementia playing this.

[28:47] LYNN POTYEN: Oh, no, I'll find it for you. Yeah, you got to. Because I had a husband and wife. We were at our local art center. They do what's called a Spark program. Right. You know what Spark is?

[28:57] MINDY BAKER: I know what Spark is.

[28:58] LYNN POTYEN: So the husband and the wife were sitting there and they were playing, and the husband had. I had asked him to give her his thumb. So that meant. Now, not only was she trying to find the colors, but she was engaging physical touch with him, which. Late stage Alzheimer's or dementia, that's something you try. And people, as they start to progress in that direction, sometimes they don't want to be touched or they don't touch. So I wanted her to engage with him physically again. And so we were playing this game, and she was picking up the colors and she was putting them on his thumb. Now, this is a woman who, once again, was a nonverbal, and all she was doing was singing, and apparently that's all she ever did was sing. At this point, you were the one.

[29:40] MINDY BAKER: That told me story wasn't video. This is your story.

[29:42] LYNN POTYEN: Oh, it is my story. Okay. And see, I told it. I tell it so well. It's a video.

[29:46] MINDY BAKER: It is. It's so visual.

[29:47] LYNN POTYEN: It is very visual. But, yes, it was a beautiful thing because she's singing and she's singing and she's singing and she's singing and she's.

[29:53] MINDY BAKER: She's like.

[29:54] LYNN POTYEN: He's like. He was concerned because he's like, I don't think she knows her colors and her numbers. And as dementia progresses, you lose your numbers, you lose your colors, you lose all this stuff. So this is a great way to reconnect back to that. So he's got his thumb up, and she's putting the color rings on, and she's doing this. And he's looking at me and he's smiling, and he turns and she turns and she looks at him. All of a sudden, she stops singing and she goes. She's holding his thumb and she goes, do you remember? And he looked at her and he goes, what? And she goes, we used to have a cabin, and we played games, and he goes, we did. And he started crying. And she goes, oh, I loved playing games at the cabin.

[30:44] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[30:46] LYNN POTYEN: And she Went right back to singing. And he said to me, a few minutes later, he got me aside and he goes, she hasn't spoken to me in two years.

[30:54] MINDY BAKER: Yeah, but it's that connection. I mean, they talk about that with you patients with dementia and things like that. That, you know, you never know what opens that door a little bit.

[31:03] LYNN POTYEN: And you just have to keep trying.

[31:04] MINDY BAKER: You just have to keep trying. But I think that's also what we talk about, right? That you never know what's gonna hit that right spark. And any way that you can engage with someone, you know, you meet people where they are.

[31:16] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[31:16] MINDY BAKER: And I think that's.

[31:17] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[31:18] MINDY BAKER: You know, meet people where they are. Yeah.

[31:19] LYNN POTYEN: Meet people where they are and connect, reach out, reach across whatever golf is there. And if you can use a game, you're not only reaching across a golf, you're focusing on a new thing together. You're doing a new adventure together. You're being cooperative, you're communicating, and you're making friends, like, all the time. You can sit down with complete and utter stranger, play a game, and you will walk away from that table with a brand new memory and a brand new friend. Like, it's so amazing. Games are fantastic, all of that.

[31:54] MINDY BAKER: I think people, sometimes they get that. They're like, yeah, it's fun. I made a friend. But what I think people forget is that they also. It's not wasted time.

[32:04] LYNN POTYEN: You have just not.

[32:06] MINDY BAKER: I mean, people recognize the value of this and this. But it's like, no, but you just exercised your brain. You didn't realize that you're staving off, you know, your dementia, Alzheimer's. You are, you know, stretching the bounds of what, you know, like, to your point earlier, if you're not so good at spatial things, maybe you should play more spatial games.

[32:25] LYNN POTYEN: Absolutely.

[32:25] MINDY BAKER: If you're not so good at math, maybe you should play some more math.

[32:28] LYNN POTYEN: Do some speed games. Because math is a great thing. And they're finding now, actually, they're finding neurologically that if you are having dementia issues in your family, you should be doing speed games. Speed games are actually the way to help bring you. Because you're having. Your brain is having to quickly think back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And that's. That is one of the pieces they found is helping. So, you know, go to, you know, go and try something new. And if you hate it, well, you know what? Listen. Listen to your heart, not your head. Do it anyways.

[32:59] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[32:59] LYNN POTYEN: Do it anyways. Yeah.

[33:01] MINDY BAKER: Just try it. And I think that's where a place like the game board is so powerful, because you go in there and you can just try it, and you can try it with people who want to be there and want to show you and are excited to share. And my favorite is to find your passion. Right?

[33:15] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah.

[33:15] MINDY BAKER: But you go in there and you can. You can sit down with someone and they're willing to be just like, I'm so happy you're. And I think that's the thing. Right. You're just so happy you're there. And let's sit down and let's play together and let's share that moment and find what makes you happy and have a laugh and maybe exercise our brains for a second, but let's just laugh.

[33:35] LYNN POTYEN: Our butts off while we do it. And be there. Just be there in the moment. Be there in the moment. You know, I just want to say that this has been such a fantastic Toy Association New York trip. Yay. And thanks, Mindy because you actually made it happen. You helped me. You made you believe in me. And I. You know, in a time when it's hard to be a retailer.

[34:02] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[34:02] LYNN POTYEN: And it's really hard to own a store, and it's really hard when you're living in a tiny town of 50,000 people in Sheboygan, Wisconsin, and you're an hour from Green Bay and you're an hour from Milwaukee, and there's nothing around you but cows and cheese and churches and children.

[34:18] MINDY BAKER: Yeah. But you have such a great place.

[34:20] LYNN POTYEN: And I do.

[34:21] MINDY BAKER: You know, that's. You got a great story. You have a. You know.

[34:24] LYNN POTYEN: Thanks.

[34:24] MINDY BAKER: Your children, they're an inspiration for you, but for other people, I mean, you got some really cool kids and a great family and great kids. You know, but it's built. Look what it's built. And look what it's, you know, showing.

[34:36] LYNN POTYEN: But I like to say that, you know, I have great kids, but they're not just my three.

[34:40] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[34:41] LYNN POTYEN: I have a whole building full of great kids.

[34:43] MINDY BAKER: You do.

[34:44] LYNN POTYEN: And they're all ages.

[34:45] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[34:45] LYNN POTYEN: And, you know, I've met all.

[34:47] MINDY BAKER: I've met some of the kids here. The adults.

[34:49] LYNN POTYEN: Yeah, the adults. I always say kids, but they're. They're, you know, we have such an age range. We. We go in our store from, like, 4 to 90s.

[34:58] MINDY BAKER: Yeah.

[34:58] LYNN POTYEN: We have lots of customers that are older, and I just love that. So.

[35:02] MINDY BAKER: Yeah. So. Well, thanks for coming. I'm glad you could make it. Too fun. It's always good to talk.

[35:09] LYNN POTYEN: It's great to talk. And you're the bomb diggity.

[35:11] MINDY BAKER: Oh, you're the best.

[35:13] LYNN POTYEN: Let's go get some gluten free, free stuff to eat.

[35:16] MINDY BAKER: Let's go eat it.