Moises and McNaully. Moises interviews his friend.

00:00 We are natural storytellers. It's what makes us human. David Issey of StoryCorps describes oral history interviews seek to record and preserve in depth accounts of personal experiences and reflections. Welcome to walking the beat. You're tuning into our oral history project. This is our part in documenting knowledge, capturing the hard earned learning, making space for legacy so we can build forward. If we want to know about better policing, lets build off of the efforts of a chief who does that. If we want to understand the impact of lockdown drills on children, ask one. There is great intimacy in listening, allowing a beloved to unfurl their wisdom. There is also risk for us. We might be changed a little. We offer these testimonies as historical documents. The stories are as diverse as the people. What can we learn from each other about the conditions for safety? What is our role in interrupting violence in our communities? How might we collectively challenge violence as a culture and replace it with healthy habits, not just bodies? How can we protect each other's psyche? What might a story about a time we felt safe tell us about necessary public policy? Youth in the walking the beat program learned how to conduct oral history interviews on matters of community violence and public safety. We'll hear from a judge, a detective, a police chief, an elder, a third grader, a reverend, a social worker, a bunch of teenagers, a drama teacher. We have so many folks show up from our community, and we have you. Let's listen. Hello. I'm Moises Raval, and it is 04:15 p.m. december. December 12, 2022, and at the Elizabeth library. And I'm with McNaully Erminal m u n. I'm at m c n a u l L. Yeah. E r m I n a l. Nice to meet you, McNaully

02:24 Nice to meet you, too, Moises

02:26 So, this is how I start off all my interviews. How was your day today?

02:31 Um, you know, it was fine. Day. Wasn't. Wasn't too stressful. I got everything done. What about yours?

02:37 My day? It was. It was pretty nice, you know? But this is all about you today, not me. Okay, so I have a couple questions I wrote down, and I just want to actually. So, I know you're a big football guy and you play the sport and you play varsity. Isn't that right?

02:54 Yeah, for two years.

02:55 Two years. Two years. What, like, what drives you to keep going? What drives you?

03:01 Um, I just love that, you know, I got something to do to keep me out of trouble, and, like, it's just a good work ethic. Keeps me in shape, and it's something I love to do.

03:12 When did you find the love for.

03:13 Football started in wok? It's my middle school. When I was playing, it was actually recess football. We played against each other sometimes, and. Yeah, ever since that, they kept telling me to play, and I just fell in love with it.

03:29 Fell in love with it. That's nice to hear. McNaully do you see a future with football?

03:36 I do see a future with football, no, I feel like I'm an all right player, and I feel like if, for God's help, if I get a scholarship, I could play.

03:49 Good job. Thank you for that. You know, I have another question for you. Growing up, what was, like, your favorite things to do as, like, a kid?

03:58 As a child watching wwe with my brother, watching all types of shows. My brother, and just, I don't know. I did a lot of stuff for my brother. I just like hanging out.

04:09 You mentioned your brother. What is your relationship with, like, your brother or, like, your family, your siblings, what is your relationship with them?

04:16 We are really close. You know, we have Cohen. And is a really healthy environment not toxic at all? And it's just little all love.

04:25 All love. I'm like, I like to see that. I like to hear that. So I got another question for you today. After high school, this is like a follow up to, like, the football. Like, if football don't work out at all. Not at all, but it don't work out how you want it to be to do. What would you do? Like, pass football? Like, what happened?

04:46 You know, if football doesn't work out, we're gonna try and go to a trade school and try learn something about fashion, or I might study something in biology.

04:56 You like biology? You like science? Yeah, science. What's your grades in science, if you don't mind?

05:02 Um, I actually don't mind at all. My grades of science are nineties, eighties. Lowest I had was like a 70 last year. But, you know, everything aside from that marquee's in science or anything science related has all been good.

05:23 That's wonderful to hear. That's. That's great to hear. You know, I got a, got, like, a few more questions. Not a few, but I just got more questions for you. Like, growing up, right? What kind of neighborhood. Neighborhood you lived in or, like, what kind of environment you lived in outside of the house? Like, your neighbors?

05:46 Like, I lived in hillside for mostly my whole life. All. There's a brace there, and I feel like the neighborhoods has been pretty nice, you know, quiet. Nothing bad really happens in my neighborhoods or on my block. And, yeah, I feel like I grew up in a safe environment.

06:07 Safe environment? Safe environment. What did you. How would you define safe? Like, the way you, like, experience it. Like, how would you define, like?

06:18 Safe is where you don't have to worry about anyone trying to hurt you. Safe is where you're with people that you trust, and safe is just being protected.

06:30 Protected by what?

06:32 Protected not by anything in particular, but you just feel like none's gonna happen to you.

06:40 Nothing gonna happen. That's a great answer for that question. Now I'm trying to get a little deeper. So what. So what is, like, what is, like, your bucket list? Like, before he dies? No, like, things you want to do before you die. Not your goals, but, like, things like you would like to do.

07:03 I would like to be a successful man. Successful is what I mean, I guess. I have a family. Healthy, healthy family. I have the money to support my family, and I'm working a job that I love, that I like to do. And successful is just being able to support everything. Yeah.

07:28 Going on by that, do you feel like it doesn't matter what job you have, it all just matters if you're successful or you would like to, like, have a. Like, a job that you like and you love, but you get less money. Like, which one would you prefer?

07:44 Um, if. If I don't. If I want to have a job that I like, but if it comes down to choosing the job that I don't really like, but to keep, like, my family, like, good and, like, financially good, that means I would just choose them to job with more money. Because at the end of the day, I'm trying to support my family.

08:11 Sounds like you're a family man. So if dead or alive, who do you want to see? Like, who do you want to see or have a talk with for, like, ten minutes? Like, dead or alive? Someone you know personally or you don't know at all, like, who would you want to, like, meet or, like, have a conversation with dead or alive? It could. It could be family, could be historic figures, it could be celebrities, could be anyone you could think of.

08:49 I would question. I think I would say Martin Luther King. Juliet. Because. Wait, what you say.

09:12 No, no, you continue. I was going to say why?

09:14 I say that because I want. Because before he got assassinated, I wanted to know all his goals and what else he wanted for the future and not input on the community.

09:27 Speaking on that, would you think that doctor King would, like, like, be happy with, like, the society that we have now or, like. Like, you think he would still. Would like what? Change. Because back then and now it's completely different. But, like, we still got some envy or. Envy or, like, an animosity for, like, races, like, for each other. But how would you feel?

09:53 Um, obviously, um, this is way better than was it, like before. But there's always going to be room for improvement, and there's always going to need change because there's always something trying to, um. What do you say that. Trying to, um, keep us.

10:13 Keep us together.

10:15 No, no, no. Um, I think. Yeah, the word, um, you know, because always, um, people try to suppress us for our opinions and our thoughts.

10:31 Okay, that's a great answer. That's a great answer. You know, if I would answer that question, I think I'll pick Jesus Christ, you know, because there is. There's some facts that he was a real person, actually. But anyways, past that, you know, like, your goals, like, what is the number one goal that you want to accomplish?

10:59 I want to accomplish financial stability.

11:05 Speak more on that.

11:06 Like, wait, only one?

11:09 No, like, your number one goal. Like, speak more on that. Like, how would you. Like, how would you gain that? Like, how would you accomplish that?

11:16 Um, it's all about your work ethic, and I could just gain that by just keep. Keep pursuing my dreams and just keep. Keep trying. Like, don't quit.

11:29 Don't quit. You have the money. So he would you say you have a mentality of you're never gonna, like, give up. You're gonna just keep going? Like, do you tend to give up? Or, like, you just always keep going until it's over? Until it's finished?

11:43 I did not tend to give up because I'm a pretty stubborn person. So I feel like once you keep trying, all the hard work gonna pay off.

11:51 All the hard work gonna pay off? Yes. So who is your heroes? Do you have any heroes that you looked up, if you looked up growing up? Or, like, do you still have heroes now? Who are the heroes?

12:04 Um, my father. And.

12:18 Why would you say your father? Like, if you want to speak more of that, Ludz?

12:22 Because, you know, without him, I wouldn't be the man I am today. He taught me a lot of things. He taught me respect. He taught me how to hold myself as a man.

12:34 And you hold yourself as a man? Hold yourself as a man. By, if you don't mind, are you in a relationship, by any chance?

12:43 No.

12:45 From a person that's not in a relationship, how would you describe one? And, like, would you like to be one? What kind of relationship you want to be? In like how would you see it?

12:58 Well I'm a straight male and I would, I would like to, you know it would be good to be a relationship but I don't really need that right now because if it comes, it comes. If you, if you want a relationship I say that you're not searched it's because it's gonna come to you.

13:16 So come to you soon. Like you want to keep going on that or like oh what do you mean come to you soon? Like are you saying like love will like come to you now? You're not going for love?

13:32 No love's not gonna come to you. Love is gone. You gonna come across it. It's like when you lose your Airpods and you start looking for it you don't find it but you just find it without even looking. That's how I think a little bit of.

13:47 So take love. That's nice to hear McNaully So I have another question for you. You know when you're like your deathbed right? What would like your last words be now? I'm not saying like you should have, you should know what it should be right now but like what would you think it would be like? What would you think your life like in one word?

14:12 I.

14:12 At the end of it all how would you think your life turned out?

14:16 Um how my life turned out or.

14:19 Yeah it's not yet la. Like describe your life with one eye.

14:23 If I would have died right now.

14:24 If you would have died? Yeah. Forget what everything I said before. If you would have died right now what would you describe your life? What one word?

14:32 Unfinished.

14:34 Unfinished business. Like to see that. You know unfinished business. Go on by that because you mean like you mean by unfinished business by like you didn't like finish your life or like I mean like don't like say it like you got more to live for but like at all together. Like besides I'm in this business. What would you describe it?

14:58 Oh I didn't make it yet. I'm still down.

15:03 He's still down. I have to see them ignoring school. How school. How school? Don't know.

15:13 Oh school is good. Having good grades and just. Yeah not that it's not, it's not that stressful for real.

15:26 Would you say it's better than last year? School year or right now? Last year. School year is better.

15:34 Um, last school year was definitely funner I would say. But um. But in school in general this year's better.

15:43 This year better. Good to hear, good to hear you. And when you're a parent and when you have, like, a kid, right? Or two for, like, if you have your kids or a kid, how would you, like, raise them in your way? Like, how would you raise your kids?

16:02 Um, I would raise them where they could come to me for anything. If they need help on anything, I'll be there for them. And I don't want it to make it seem like I'm like. Like a. Like a bad guy or, like, oh, like, you can't trust them. I want to be someone that they could come to.

16:19 Would you want your kid to your kids or kid to, like, be open with you? Like, to.

16:25 Yes.

16:25 Always express themselves? Yes.

16:27 Yeah.

16:29 Do you have that relationship with your parents?

16:32 No.

16:34 How come?

16:35 Cause they came from a different place where I was raised, so I feel like they always. Well, not always, but they would take things different, by the way, if I were to come to him.

16:49 What about it, washer? Ethnicity?

16:52 I'm haitian american.

16:54 Haitian american. Are you proud to be haitian american or haitian in general?

17:00 Yes.

17:03 Have other people made fun of your ethnicity before, or, like, have any negative feedback appeared when you said, oh, impatient American? Like, have anything bad happened to you or anything good, like, positive negatives?

17:17 Nothing bad happened to me, like, personally. But there's always someone that's gonna say something about where you from.

17:26 What would you say back to them? Like, a response, if they try to disrespect where you're from, your ethnicity, what would you do, like, your culture?

17:39 I would just. I would just talk about their culture. Let me see how they like it.

17:46 Fighting fire with fire. Okay. And going more on, like, culture and stuff from you. I want to see your perspective on race. How do you feel about, like, different races and, like, if there's still racism in the world, or, like, is there still. And, like, bad stuff just happened between different races just cause the color of their skin.

18:15 There is still racism in a lot of parts of the world. There's a lot of racism in America, and I feel like nothing could be changed. No matter how hard you try, there's always gonna be people who's not gonna have the same opinions and thoughts about how things should be, even though it's not right, it's always gonna be people that's gonna be trying to be different.

18:37 Have you ever experienced any racist, like, actions towards you?

18:44 No. No. I mean, there's been times where I felt like, oh, that's not. No. Things have been unfair or racially profiled, but nothing really serious. Well, not serious, but, you know, nothing really that bad that has happened to me.

19:04 Do you have a worse experience, like, if you could recall one. Do you have any, like, the worst experience you had that has to do with race or skin tone you have?

19:13 Um, I was in this store one time, and I had. I had chatted by some dick, and I had a piece of. I had gum in my pocket, and they thought I stole it from them. And it was a situation where we was going back and forth, and they just thought I stole it for some reason. And clearly I didn't, because it was a small store. I didn't even have any chance to put anything in my pocket, and I was already buying something I always buy from all the time. So I don't know where this came from, but I feel like that was a racist act towards me. Have you ever.

19:52 Have you went back to that store after that incident?

19:55 Yes, I have.

19:58 And do you feel, like, any negative energy, like, when you step in, like, do you feel, like, any, like, bad feeling or bad energy when you step in that store and knowing that they racially profiled you?

20:10 Um, it wasn't the same person that worked there anymore.

20:13 Oh.

20:15 So. And I think they forgot. Cause I. You know, I really. It's been a long time, so I don't tend to keep grudges, but I feel like it happened, so let that be the past. They apologized to me at the end, so. But I feel like, yeah, I'll just let that be the past as long as it doesn't happen again.

20:39 Going on grudges, you mentioned, do you feel like everyone should be forgiven?

20:45 No.

20:47 You want to speak more on that?

20:49 Because if someone were to hurt someone you love, you would. I don't think you could ever forgive that, because I wouldn't. So I feel like. I feel like it's only to a certain extent, you should forgive people.

21:05 Only to a certain extent. Like, can you give us some examples? Some examples that. Some situation that you could forgive and not forgive in your eyes, as I.

21:18 Said, if you hurt someone that you love intentionally, you shouldn't forgive someone. Um, well, that's depending on a person, though. But if a friend were to mess with another friend's, um, lady, I feel like, you know, depending on how it was, you could forgive them, and you.

21:43 Great answer. Great answer. Uh, I got a few more questions for you, and then we could wrap up.

21:50 So.

21:52 Do you think school, like, the normal subjects, like high school, do you think. Will it, like, help you in the real world?

22:03 Um, some definitely wills, but I feel like there's some. That's kind of unnecessary because, you know, I mean, it all depends on what you want to do because if you want to be a math teacher, you don't need all the math subjects, but if you want to be a history teacher, you get in, you're going to have to learn all the history stuff. But if you work a, like a nine of five, I like, I don't know, something that don't require math. You just learned it, you're not really going to use it. So there's some things you need, some things you don't really need. All depends on what you want to do.

22:44 So what do you want to do?

22:48 Um, I mean, I told you the field I want to work in, but I don't really know exactly, like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this job. This is what I want to pursue. I don't know anything yet, but I just want to at least something that got to do with fashion or biology.

23:07 Okay. Okay. And then got two more questions for you. Are you gonna move? Like, when you're an adult and you've got your whole life ahead of you and everything, will you stay in New Jersey or, like, will you, like, go out like a state or even country? Like, will you stay in New Jersey or would you, like, move?

23:37 I'd have no problem staying in Jersey. I would actually live in a house I live and today as a man. Well, when I grow up, but I'll move to new York. I'll move to Georgia, Florida. Those are my top three. But as of now, oh, yeah. Like, I have no problem with Jersey, but those are the places I would move to.

24:03 Why would you move there? Like, Georgia, Florida or New York? Like, is there, like, a peak of interest that you have in New York?

24:11 I just love the people, and there's just always something excited happening. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of. I love the diverse community in New York. And in New York there's a lot of opportunity. I live in Georgia cause it's just nice weather. Not that bad. And it's calm over there. And I live in Florida. Cause all the beaches, the weather, and the houses look nice there, too.

24:48 Okay. Okay. Nice states to live in. So what do you want in a woman?

24:58 I just want loyalty. All cleanliness.

25:05 Give an example of cleanliness.

25:10 You wash. You wash yourself, man. It like, at a mandatory time, you don't stink. You clean up after yourself and, like.

25:23 You clean up after and you keep.

25:25 Yourself, like, kept, like, looking properly.

25:30 So you want them to, like, have a good representation of you when they go out, knowing that that's your wife. Girlfriend. And that's your woman?

25:44 In a way.

25:46 Okay. That's respectful answer, and I think that's all I have for you. McNaully thank you so much for coming.

25:55 Thank you for having me.

25:56 And it is 04:40 p.m. december 12, 2022, at the Elizabeth library. And that is all. Thank you.