My Friend Aladji Sow

00:01 Hi, my name is Karen Levant and I'm introducing Elaji. So here we are both in Atlanta. It's November 3, 2022.

00:15 Yep. I'm Alaji, and just here in Atlanta for the elections. And we just love it. It's a beautiful morning.

00:25 It is a beautiful morning.

00:26 Absolutely.

00:28 Okay, so I just met Al about a week ago, and I'm fascinated with his life. So I'm going to ask a couple questions. So, Alaji, what was life like in Senegal when you were a boy?

00:42 So, like, you know, I'm from Senegal, the southern part of Senegal called Casamas, how it was. And we are talking about the 60s 70s. The only thing we had around were radio, and that's what we could listen to. And the southern border of Casamas was actually, we used to hear a lot of shelling, bombing, and all because Guinea Pisawa was waging its war of independence against the Portuguese. So that's really what was the rhythm of my life. And we used to run whenever we heard some shelling and hide and all that.

01:27 Okay, can you tell me about when you first learned about America?

01:33 When I was a student. And that's very funny, though. We used to have before every class, especially in the morning before we went to class, we used to have a glass of hot milk given to us. And it was powdered milk. We would drink it and on the boxes when I started, when I was able to read a little bit, I was able to see, like, I think it was gift from the people of America. And people, of course, I could not read it. People, I could say purple of America. So. And the flag was there. That's how I came to understand later on. Ooh, gee, that came from America. It was a gift. And to make us, give us the opportunity of having some hard milk in the morning before going to class.

02:34 Yeah, okay. What did you think you were going to be when you grew up?

02:39 I always wanted to be a teacher because I was fascinated by the depth of knowledge the teachers seemed to have and how well dressed they were. Listen, gee, they had pants and they had shoes. So that was something just woo to me. I wanted to be like them. And I had. When I went to sixth grade, I had a teacher who was actually from America, Peace Corp volunteer. And that was the ball. I loved it. I loved the way he taught us. I loved his demeanor. And I just wanted to be an English teacher.

03:23 Now, was your school divided by grades?

03:27 We had at the beginning, like my first year, we didn't have a classroom, and our classes were actually under Mango troll. That's where I started my first class. And we were just a bunch of kids sitting down on the dirt. And with one slate, if you were lucky enough, you had a chalk and you could write on the slate, or you would just form your letters on the sand. And that's how it all started. Counting, for example, I remember we had to go and cut some small branches, twigs, and put them, tie them together, make them in tens. And how we used to count 1, 2, 3, 1 plus 1 equals. And you have to show it. So, yeah. And it was a long journey. Sometimes when I sit and reflect on all of that, I say, gee, I studied class down well under a mango tree. And I ended up with my masters at Columbia University. What a journey.

04:33 Yes, a huge journey. So we talked about the teacher who encouraged you to be a teacher. Can you tell me more about the teacher from the Peace Corps?

04:43 He was. I still remember the name. His name was Mr. Del Toro. He used to come to class and just write his name on the board and the date. We didn't know. And he was the only teacher who would write his name on the board. Since we didn't know what it meant, we thought, okay, we have to copy his name on every single page of our notebooks, which we did. We copied it. Copied the date and his name there. So it's what now? I'm talking about something of 50, 60 years almost now. And I still remember the name.

05:23 Because you wrote it so many times.

05:24 I wrote it so many times. Just interested, you know, it was like a drill. It was in there. Mr. Del Toro. Del Toro.

05:32 Yeah. Can you tell me about how you ended up in your line of work? And I know you have a few lines of work.

05:41 Teaching was really what I wanted to do, but also, I was socially. I like social justice. I've been into it, and all my life was about it, how to bring equity in the communities I live in. And I thought teaching would be one way of bringing that, because I believe in education. I believe education, I mean, for us, where we come from, education was really the mean to get out of poverty. So education would kind of level the playing field. So I wanted to do that. I am also, like, you know, a little bit into trying to bring peace in the world. Working in that. That's my other line, which maybe we'll get to talk, if not here, but later on. Yeah.

06:45 Okay. Well, tell me about your role with the conflict in Senegal. I think you were just about to get into that.

06:54 Right. There is a conflict in Senegal. That's been going on for the last almost 40. It's a low intensity war. People in the south, in Kazamas or group, thought that they were not totally into the Senegal nation and they were outcasts. And because of that, they decided, you know what, we are different. First of all, linguistically we are not the same. Culturally, we are not the same. And historically we are different. Part of Casamas was colonized by the Portuguese at one point. And there was a swap that happened between the Portuguese and the French. They swapped some territories and Casamas ended up with the French. North of Casamas, you have a country that is a Gambia. It's English. The southern part is Portuguese. And Casamas is like separated from the rest of Senegal by the Gambia. So that created the sense of not belonging to that big nation. And there was a rebellion. It started in 1982. 81. 82. And it's been going on since then. My role in it is like a member of the Kazamas diaspora. We want to bring peace because we know that there is no social gains, no achievement can be done in war. So we need to bring the war to an end and bring peace. We are not asking the rebels to kind of stop with their ideal of independence. They can keep it. It's an ideal. You're not going to fight against an ideal. An ideal is here, it stays. But you can work to bring a kind of a peace where people will not be using arms, will not be fighting to bring actually the social change they want. It could be through a political venue. People can argue, we can have differences, but we can still live together. We don't need to be killing each other. And this is where I think, having been in Scotland in the 80s and seeing how the SNP rose to power, the Scottish National Party, they were able to get to what they have presently without, I mean, any firing, any bullet. So why can't we do the same in Cozumel? That's my whole thing. We can. These people want independence. Independence is not something that is going to be given to them. Senegal doesn't want it. Senegal want to keep the total integrity of the country. So, okay, we agree, but let's negotiate for the end of the armed conflict. Okay? Let's not tell these people, stop any independence revindication. Just go ahead and you're all part of Senegal. Let's live together. No, what we believe in is that what can be negotiated is how to end the armed conflict. Then what they do with their political field, they can go on the political parties, they can create their political party to fight for their ideals, their principles. And I think that is possible. Doesn't Texas want independence? Same thing. And that's what I was saying one day. It's this southern idea. Everyone in the south thinks that the people in the north are really bad. In many countries. Look at it. The south and the north. Yeah. And that's what's happening there in Senegal. In Senegal? Yep.

11:21 How often do you get back to Senegal?

11:24 I had not been back for five years because somehow the government thought I was part of the rebellion. And either I was financing, which I really don't have, or I was sympathizing with them. I went back this year for the first time and 10 days. It was great. I was under the radar and did what I could do. Yeah.

11:59 Okay, Laji, tell me a little bit about where you're living now.

12:04 Right now I'm in Harlem, New York, New York. Okay. Been teaching for many years in the United States, and I love it. I love what I've been doing. Just retired and now trying to give back again. Because I believe that our democracy in this country is something we need to protect. And it's under attack. Under attack here, under attack everywhere in the world. So we need to step up. If people start believing in elections, in election results, then, I mean, we cannot be together. How can we change? How can we bring a new regime if we don't? I mean, believe in the process. So I'm up to protecting that, and that's my goal right now, is my life.

13:08 Okay.

13:09 Thank you.

13:10 That was my interview with my friend Elaji, who I just met in Atlanta, Georgia, and my name is Karen. Thank you.