Myyuh and Hany Osman

[00:08] MAYA: My name is Maya. I am 31 years old. Today's date is September 27, 2022. I'm in Brooklyn, New York, and I'm sitting here with my new friend, Hany

[00:30] HANY OSMAN: My name is Hany Osman. I'm 33 years old. Today's day is September 27, 2022, and we're in Brooklyn, New York, and I'm here with Maya, my new friend.

[00:57] MAYA: Hi, honey.

[01:03] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, so that's a good question for you, I guess. What is your earliest memory of music?

[01:18] MAYA: Well, I grew up in the nineties, so I grew up with cassettes, and that was the way that I experienced music. My parents were very well. My dad was really invested in us, like, becoming familiar with american music, specifically. Him and my mom are both from Egypt, and we were born here, my siblings and I. So one of my first cassettes was. I can't even remember what the album was called, but it was by ABBA, and it was, like, one of their famous albums. Like, it had all their hits, and I just listened to that, like, every day. When I first got it, it was so. It was just, like, transformational. As a kid, I was, like, ten, I think, and, yeah, it just kind of blew my mind. The harmonies were so beautiful. I was a pretty musical kid from an early age. Like, I started playing violin at age ten, and I kind of became very competitive about violin.

[02:38] HANY OSMAN: With the violin?

[02:39] MAYA: Yeah. Like, I ended up, like, competing in, like, citywide and, like, county wide, I thought, like, competitive.

[02:48] HANY OSMAN: No, not, like, with my actual, like, better than you.

[02:53] MAYA: No, I was pretty, like, self deprecating, like, internally, but nobody knew that. Like, I was always kind of, like, I could be better, you know? I don't believe that I'm that good, but I was, like, pretty consistently the leader of the orchestra, so I guess I was okay. Yeah. So when I wasn't practicing violin, which was. I was pretty consistent with my practice, I was listening to music pretty much any time I had space where I wasn't in school or I wasn't playing music or doing sports or whatever.

[03:34] HANY OSMAN: Was it, like, specific genre? Like Swedish pop or for the violin or, like, abba.

[03:44] MAYA: Oh, Abba is their pop music.

[03:51] HANY OSMAN: No, I mean, like, for. You did it.

[03:54] MAYA: Oh. The reason why I was drawn to it.

[03:57] HANY OSMAN: Yeah.

[03:57] MAYA: I think it was just, like, really fascinating to me to hear the way the vocals were layered and the way the harmonies were just, like, they really hit me in my chest. I know some people find AbBa to be corny, but sort of set a tone for other types of music that I gravitated towards. And I also was studying classical music. I had this kind of, like, world of music around me that felt very, I don't know, in some ways, like, foundational. Like, you know, just like, this kind of basic foundation of, like, how music sounds in one era. But then it sort of led me to, like, a couple of other funny, like, bands and, like, I had a whole Beatles phase, queen, and then my mom sort of had to, like, interject and make sure that I, like, also knew all of the arabi pop singers and the greats and the classics. And, you know, like, that was really important to her to make sure that I had that full knowledge. Yeah, but it was, it was definitely for a few years I was, like, really, like, invested in american pop music and, like, pop music from around the world, but it was like, you know, bigger, I guess, in the States. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any experiences like that with music when you were growing up?

[05:37] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's, it's very similar, but at the same time, it's opposite to your experience. Like, I grew up listening to, like, arabic pop, like Amrid. Yep. It's like the earliest, early nineties, like, music that was, like, very mainstream. And I don't think I, like, bought a cassette for him. It's just he's, like, playing everywhere in Egypt, like, wherever you go. But then, yeah, I think as I got older, like, I kind of got into, like, Beatles phase and queens and, like, rock and metal and then, like, you know, that kind of turned back to, like, listening to arabic music mostly. Yeah.

[06:35] MAYA: Would you say that you listen to mostly arab music today as an adulthood?

[06:42] HANY OSMAN: I mean, I listen mostly to, like, like, swanna, north african like, music. A lot of. Yeah, like Sahara, like Tin Erwin and. Yeah, like it. Like, I think it expanded a little bit as time passed by and, like, my tastes grown, like, geographically, I guess, but, yeah, I mean, you just build up, like, this collection of library of things like that you listen to and develops your taste?

[07:24] MAYA: I guess, yeah. I mean, it's funny you mentioned the collection and the library aspect because I think, like, from a young age, it was always, there was always this obsession with collecting music for me. And over the years, I've noticed how it's changed so much the format of collection. I mean, like, as a dj, I think a lot of people kind of expect me to have this, like, vast record collection, but I just don't have space living in New York for something like that. But my computer is kind of a mess with music. I don't even know how much music I have, like, I probably need to clean some of it out because I just collect and I don't think about it. And I, like, discover sounds and then I'll put them away and return to them. But the format has always kind of, like, has evolved over time, and I've always found that really interesting. And I'm curious to know, like, if you have a format that you gravitate towards or if that sort of informs, like, a ritual that you have with music or if it's more just, like, fleeting.

[08:42] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, no, I mean, I guess I can speak more to, like, filmmaking because that's my. My background when I think there's, like, still a connection, like, you know, the difference between, like, digital versus analog. I, like, started off as, like, more of a digital because that's, like, what was more accessible, more, like, cheaper. But as, like, I learned about analog and I, like, developed. I started seeing the. The beauty and, like, the quality of it and, like, how much. It's, like, there is a difference. There's a lot of nuances that are, like, lost from this to this. And, you know, digital also has, like, pros and cons over analog. But, you know, I feel like it also, like, translates to, like, in music. How do you feel about, like, vinyls and. Because, yeah, you said, like, you do expect, like, dj's to have all these, like, vinyls and, like, huge libraries and stuff, but now everything is digital. You can have, like, a hard drive with, like, a room full of music, like, just in the palm of your hand or something.

[10:09] MAYA: Totally.

[10:12] HANY OSMAN: But, yeah, I don't know. Do you miss, like, I don't know why your workflow? Do you work more with analog or do you, like. I mean, vinyls or digital? Yeah.

[10:28] MAYA: I work mostly with digital, and it's always kind of, like, this dance for me because I do have also, like, musical background where I know how to play with, like, instruments and I know how to use my voice. But it's interesting. Like, I've just found myself gravitating more towards digital because it's easier. But there's a part of me that wonders, like, you know, if I don't, like, make a case for the tactile ways of creating music, does that just die? Like, is that just gonna die from me eventually? And, like, I went so far as to, like, even buy myself a new violin last year because I was like, I have to get back to, you know, like, creating music with my violin, and I've probably touched it, like, five times. It's just really hard and you have to have all these tools to use with it to translate the sound into something digital. You know, it's. Yeah, it's weird. Like, it's weird to see how everything kind of now exists in the computer.

[11:39] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, no, I mean, that actually kind of reminds me I did, like, buy a 16 millimeter camera, and I'm, like, I'm always looking for opportunities to use it and, like, people who wants to shoot on film and so. But I probably also touched it, like, five times in the last two years because, yeah, it involves, like, you know, loading and I doing more and, like, if you're, like, collaborators and everyone is not, like, supporting that or, like, it doesn't, you're just gonna fall off to, like, doing it non digital because that's. It's also, like, the expectation, I feel.

[12:23] MAYA: Definitely. Yeah, I guess I'm curious about, like, your connections with music as a filmmaker and, like, how you use music to sort of tell stories through film and if it plays an important role or if you sort of, like, what are the priorities in the storytelling of creating a film for you?

[12:50] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. I feel like music. Like, I was, like, really interested in music as a kid. Like, I always listen to music and I wanted to, like, oh, maybe that's something I can do, you know, trying few instruments and stuff. But, like, I quickly realized it's not my thing as a performer, but, like, so, like, it kind of made me appreciate, like, people who can do it and, like, developed a taste for it and especially, like, yeah, like, films with. With music or. Or generally, like, just sound. You know, like, just, like, mixing purposefully, like, having specific sounds or, like, lack of sounds in some films. Like, really, like, paying attention to that is really important. I always bring it up when I'm developing a project or in pre production or something that we. What are we gonna do about music and dialogue and how does this feel? And, yeah, we just. It is like, because, yeah, I mean, I'm a cinematographer, and it's, like, a very visual medium, you know? But you can't just, like, forget about, like, what people are hearing because that's. It's. I think it's more important, honestly, because it is in the film more this, like, more. It's not given the priority. Like, you know when you're shooting something, like, if you see people shooting on the street, like, everyone's gonna be looking at the camera, but nobody's looking at the guy with, like, the boom who's doing, like, amazing job.

[15:01] MAYA: That is such a hard job.

[15:03] HANY OSMAN: It is, yeah. I don't know how to be.

[15:06] MAYA: And they haven't found a way to do it in an easier way.

[15:09] HANY OSMAN: No. I guess loveliers, but comes with its own problems.

[15:18] MAYA: Yeah. That is an interesting thing as a person who is not at all in the film. I don't work in that world, really. But the fact that sound always comes after it doesn't happen in the way that we experience life. And that's always been really interesting to me. Like, it has to be sort of implemented after the fact. And it kind of makes, I imagine, like, anybody who's working in that space, they have a totally different relationship to sound and, you know, like, the ways that it is isolated and can be kind of manipulated, even, like, the Foley actors who are literally paid to just, like, create regular sounds that we make. It's really cool to me.

[16:11] HANY OSMAN: Yeah. I had one Foley experience because in my graduate program, we had to do, like, a silent film for the first year. And you kind of have to. So you don't record sound on the field, but, like, you go into the studio and, like, you can recreate, like, specific sounds. And it seems, like, very surreal, like, you know, someone walking or something. Like, it doesn't always, like, connect. You wouldn't expect, like, this sound would create, but it does, like, they know what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating to me.

[16:59] MAYA: Yeah, that's really cool. I'm curious to know more about your filmmaking work. I don't really know anything about the subjects you gravitate towards or the type of work you create.

[17:22] HANY OSMAN: So, like, I. I started more, like, on the, like, short film kind of scene. Like, you know, my friends were, like, students, and I kind of exposed to that world from them. Like, I would be like, an assistant camera or. Uh, so I started from, like, short fiction films. Um, but, um, it started, like, drifting towards more documentary style. Um. Um, so I. Yeah, like, most of my work is, like, with organizations or, um, like, I like, like, I do like, fiction a lot, but, like, there is something in documentary where it's less cruel, it's more personal. You. It's. You get more of, like, you know, true feeling from the subjects. Like, and I've got that as a response also. A lot of people have been telling me that we don't actually feel, like, your presence. You're not, like, that's nice. Yeah, you're not telling us what to do or you're just giving us the space, letting people's voices be heard. And so, yeah, you know, it was a journey but kind of that's where I'm landing.

[19:20] MAYA: What kind of stories do you like to tell, or do you encourage people to tell?

[19:28] HANY OSMAN: Um, Maya I mean, I'm not really. So, like, it's not the kind of stories. It's more of, like, the people. Like, if I'm. I'm intrigued by, like, people. So if I, like, that person is, like, very interesting, and I think their story is interesting, they have something to say. Like, I just naturally like to observe and, you know, like, give them the space, but, yeah, like, that's. This is where it comes from, really.

[20:13] MAYA: Are most of your subjects based in this country, or have you done international projects?

[20:19] HANY OSMAN: Most of my work has been here in the US, mostly New York, too. New York state. But, yeah, no, I mean, I was. I just finished my program, so I'm, like, in that phase where I'm, like, branching out and, like, maybe, oh, maybe I should go to Egypt and, you know, explore there, because I feel like, you know, I moved ten years ago, eleven years ago now, right after the revolution. So I feel like I didn't really, like, experience a lot, like, of the country like, that I grew in, ironically, because, yeah, like, I grew up in, in Cairo, in my neighborhood. Like, you know, you don't really engage that much when, you know, you're living somewhere and you're like. But, yeah, there was this, actually, what made me want to. And kept that in my mind that I want to explore is I met someone here, and he was, like, this older white guy who has been to Egypt. I don't remember his name. And he's, like, telling me, oh, I've been to Naga Hamedi, and I'm like, like, what? Well, I didn't, like, I read about it in books, but, like, I've never been there. And I just remember feeling, like, so jealous of, oh, wow. Like, this person who is from here is explored more in my own country. And I couldn't help but feeling jealous, and I just been in the back of my mind, so I. Yeah, I think it's something that I'll have to do at some point.

[22:27] MAYA: It's interesting to hear you talk about it like that because I have, like, an interesting, similar kind of relationship to Egypt because I grew up here and my family was not really interested in going back to Egypt. I don't really have a relationship to the country at all, besides through culture, through music, through food, through language. And I have always felt really jealous of people who were able to go back and forth, you know, and, like, have lots of family there. And I'm sure those people also are, like, exhausted from doing all that work because it probably requires a lot of energy to go back and forth. And there's a lot that I don't know about egyptian living and, you know, like, the way life is.

[23:27] HANY OSMAN: Have you been to Egypt?

[23:29] MAYA: Just when I was, like, five. That was the first and only time I'd been. Yeah. And now as an adult, like, I'm trying to kind of re, like, have a relationship with the country, basically, and, and, you know, like, we're trying, my mom and my husband and I are, like, trying to plan just to slowly start visiting again. And, like, it's a strange, it's a really strange experience to be so, like, to feel in your heart so connected to a place, but to not know it at all, you know?

[24:16] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, no, it's, I think that's really interesting because, like, I haven't been in a while also, like, I think over four years, which, you know, it changed a lot during those four years, but, yeah, I feel like it's always, like, now it's kind of what is the real place and what is actually in my mind. Like, you know, I do want to go to some places, but they honestly might not exist anymore because it's changing so much.

[24:52] MAYA: Yeah.

[24:54] HANY OSMAN: So, yeah, I wonder how much of that is in our minds versus the romanticizing. If we're romanticizing a place, then doesn't exist.

[25:07] MAYA: Totally. I mean, I'm sure I do that. Like, I love traveling, but almost every place I've traveled to in every country I've traveled to has been totally different from how I've made it up in my head. But I guess something I'm wondering about is something I talk about a lot with my mom, which is, you know, she's an immigrant from Egypt, and she's lived here at this point for almost as long as she lived in Egypt. And something I always wonder about with her is, like, what makes a place home? And she still has her accent. She will always be so connected to the culture of Egypt, but I think a lot of what makes her feel at home is in this country with her kids specifically. And, like, yeah, I'm just, I know for me, it's like a question of home is always coming up around just like, living in a city that has been the place I've lived in for most of my life, but also a place that is really difficult to live in and that is kind of abusive and, like, toxic. And I'm like, why do I love it here? What's wrong with me?

[26:41] HANY OSMAN: I asked myself same question every day.

[26:47] MAYA: I don't know what to do.

[26:50] HANY OSMAN: And I'm like, when I ask myself that, I think, oh, I'm still here, so there must be something.

[26:57] MAYA: Yeah. For me, I think the thing that I have, and I've been thinking about this a lot in the last couple of weeks, especially because I just got back from some travels to the west coast. And whenever I travel, I have this experience of realizing why a place is my home, but also really enjoying the experience of being elsewhere and pretending that place is my home for a little bit, like my physical home. But when I came back, I started to think about, like, well, actually, it's okay if I want to love New York, even though sometimes it feels like it doesn't love me back. But, like, I. You know, I was born here. My family grew up in Connecticut, and then I came back to New York at age 18, and I just. I've never really, like, known a home that I could love without fear of it leaving me or, like, wanting to cut me out or, you know, like. And I think that was something that I was kind of carrying with me. Like, I just don't feel any connection to Connecticut at all. And I was carrying that energy with me in New York, too. And, like, it's so easy to be cynical once you've lived here for a.

[28:19] HANY OSMAN: While, but it comes with the territory.

[28:23] MAYA: Totally. After I got back, I was like, actually, no, I just love it here, and I'm gonna let myself love it because my people are here, and those are, you know, that is really what makes it home. Like, I could move somewhere else and create a beautiful home for myself and my family, and it wouldn't be the same because my people wouldn't be there. No.

[28:52] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, because you mentioned you traveled to the west coast. Like, do you have, like, plans or expectations, dreams to play, like, your music around the world or, like, specific areas you want to either play in or perform or sample from also?

[29:16] MAYA: Yeah. I think my approach to music making and art making in general is mostly, like, I pray that the people who need to receive it find it. And that's kind of what I ask for whenever I create. It's like, I don't really. I'm not too preoccupied with the. The idea of how cool it would be to perform in Japan. But if there's an amazing community in Japan that really wants to hear my unique, specific blend of arabi pop music and Afrobeats and funky house, I will definitely keep that in mind and open myself up to the possibilities of that. But it's not like I'm. Yeah, I'm not. I guess the only places I've ever really, really wanted to play in were, like, by the ocean and in the forest and in natural spaces, because I just really feel a connection to my surroundings when I'm in those spaces in a different way. And then the sort of give and take of, like, me giving something and receiving something feels very, like, visceral and kind of. It just feels different from, you know, when you're playing in, like, a four walled establishment in the middle of New York City. Yeah, I don't know.

[30:56] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, I know. I was about to say, like, these are all. I mean, I guess you can. There's, like, an intersection between New York and all these things. Like, yeah, yeah. I keep coming back to, like, the idea of home, and I do agree it's, like, people and community that is, like, what anchors you to a specific place. But I'm, like, also wondering, like, yeah, everyone. I feel like everyone is, like, traveling all the time. It's hard to call a place your home when you're like, oh, I'm gonna be here for especially, like, musicians and filmmakers and, you know, you kind of just go where the work is or, like, where the people want to hear. Like, you know, that group of people in Japan who wants to hear your music, you're gonna go, yeah. So it's more of, like, your grounding place, but it's not really a place that you're gonna be for the most of the time or so.

[32:13] MAYA: Mm hmm. You mentioned, I mean, it sounds like we have very similar ideas of what home means, but I. You did mention community, and a lot of my work as an artist also involves bringing people together, and I've just been meditating on the idea of community and how that is often different depending on the person that you're talking to. So I'm curious how you found community in New York and what it means to you.

[32:49] HANY OSMAN: Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, the first, like, couple of years were really, like, difficult of moving here. Like, I moved in 2011. Yeah, I didn't know anyone. Basically just, I do have extended family here who moved in, like, the sixties and seventies. So, like, I had some connections, but no, like, no people like, my age or community, like, in a sense of, like, you know, friends and people I connect with. And, like, it was kind of like that for two years until, like, more people from Egypt, like, from home, like, moved, and we kind of, like, it's just, like, kind of grew, you know, like, met through this person. Met person like this. And, yeah, just as the years went by, like, I think, like, a community started to develop also. Like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you started as, like, a big community thing that, like, a lot of people, like, go to, like, you know, and. But, like, you know, when I moved, like, there was nothing like that. There was. There was no events or maybe I just wasn't aware of it. But, like, as years went by and I, like, my friends started, like, to travel and come and I meet from people and things like Khaz and, you know, other events and places too starting to pop up. I think it did make a huge difference.

[35:05] MAYA: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

[35:10] HANY OSMAN: Yeah. How do you feel about Heza and how that started?

[35:16] MAYA: Well, I think I never would have imagined creating something like this as a kid, ever, especially since I was, like, very sensitive about my cultural identity and kind of not in tune with it as much growing up in the suburbs of Connecticut. But I think I'm like, I'm very. I'm just kind of humbled by the ways that people show up consistently to be in this space that we create. And also, like, I feel very critical of the word community because I feel like a lot of different communities come to Heza, but I don't think of Heza as a community necessarily because I don't know a lot of the people who come to the events. And just because, you know, like, I meet people in an experience doesn't mean that we have, you know, like, become really close or, like, shared experiences that were very serious or joyful. You know, like, there's so many experiences that make up a relationship. But I am really, really just amazed at how, like, how much people want to celebrate, you know, being a part of this kind of identity or the multiple identities that the intersections of many identities that come to heads up. And that's just been something really beautiful to witness again, like, not something I would have ever imagined.

[37:00] HANY OSMAN: Being able to witness. I agree. And I feel like it's like, what I like about it, I think it's resonating with people. It's like, it's not as much of, like, people are going by for their identity as much as it's like, their interest in listening to this culture or this mix of between arabic music and other, you know, from all over. So, like, the shared interest, I think, is like a very strong bond to, like, you know, even if people didn't know each other, we already know, like, before we talk. Oh, we have a shared interest in this music because we're both here.

[37:43] MAYA: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good reminder. Yeah.

[37:50] HANY OSMAN: Is there anything else that either you would like to share?

[37:59] MAYA: I feel like we covered a lot. I could ask you so many more.

[38:06] HANY OSMAN: Questions, but, like, I'm thinking the same, but not in less than two minutes or so.

[38:17] MAYA: Yeah. Well, I guess for a concluding question.

[38:26] HANY OSMAN: Then, I'm curious whether the two of you have sort of any immediate hopes for your. For your, you know, artistic or creative outputs.

[38:44] MAYA: How have you sort of found creative.

[38:48] HANY OSMAN: Inspiration in the world around you, and where do you hope to go next?

[38:54] MAYA: You should go first. I want to hear.

[39:01] HANY OSMAN: So wherever. Yeah. I mean, from. I think, like, I find inspiration in a lot of things and not necessarily just, like, watching films or, like, I just. I've also been told that, like, I wouldn't claim it myself, but I do notice things that are, like, other people wouldn't necessarily, like, be the first thing that they look at. And I. And I feel like that kind of. It's part of my inspiration about things. Like, I'll notice something and start thinking about it in a different way than even probably the. If it's a work of art, like the artist is intended or. And where to go next. Like, I think I feel like what's important to me, like, that my work is obscene and that's. Yeah, keep it simple. That's pretty much it. I mean, I just. Because my work is involved with people and, like, I just want to these people be seen and heard.

[40:29] MAYA: That's wonderful. I think, for me, I'm inspired by. I'm really inspired by movement. Just watching how people move, like, especially little kids and how they move in such free ways, that kind of inspires a lot of the music that I gravitate towards because I feel like it helps me kind of tap into that inner child that is so often censored and told to be quiet and sit still, but I really need to move and be like that because it's just part of who I am. So that's, like, I think also leads into the next part of the question, which is, like, I really just want to play for more intergenerational audiences. I love anytime I have done that, like, where I've played for little kids and elderly people and, like, young people, and, you know, it's just so special to me to watch people experiencing joy across, like, a spectrum of age and experiences. And it just makes me feel human through the music and through the art.