Nancy Masner and Tomasita Trammell

[00:02] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Hi, I'm Tomasita Trammell. I'm age 73, and it's Monday, May 9, the year 2022. Ozarks, Missouri. And the name of my interview partner is Nancy, and she is my friend and my colleague.

[00:21] NANCY MASNER: Hi, I'm Nancy Masner I'm 66 years old. Today is Monday, May 9, 2022. We are in the Ozarks, Missouri. I'll be interviewing Tomasita Trammell, and she is my friend and co worker.

[00:43] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Well, hi, Nancy. I've known you for a while. I know a lot about you. We used to be together, but because of our workloads, I'm not able to talk with you as much. You're at one end of the hall, and I'm at the other, but there's things about you that I still don't know. So, what would you like to talk about today?

[01:05] NANCY MASNER: Today I'd like to talk about my lifelong fascination with the pythian castle in Springfield, Missouri.

[01:13] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: The Pythian Castle. I've heard of that. When did you first discover the pythian castle?

[01:19] NANCY MASNER: Well, my grandfather Glenn Whitehead, owned whitehead cleaners on Boonville street. Part of the service that he offered was pickup and delivery of clothing to be dry cleaned. When I was little, I often rode with him on these errands, and one day his route took us by the pythian castle. I asked him about the building, and he told me it was the armory. I envisioned it full of weapons and bombs and wondered why such a beautiful building would be used for that purpose. My encounter with the castle's neighborhood continued as I grew older. I played junior miss softball in the summer, and we had practice and games at Smith park near the castle. I always admired the castle and wondered what it looked like on the inside. My mother told me she and my father used to attend square dances in the building. She also said when she was young, they showed movies for a nickel and held USO shows for military in the auditorium. I asked my grandfather if they were having all that activity in the castle, where did they keep the bombs? He laughed and explained that while there may be some weapons in the building, it was more of an office space and meeting place for the National Guard.

[02:35] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Wow. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Did you ever get to go inside the building?

[02:40] NANCY MASNER: Yes, and I was so excited. In the summer of 1982, I was looking for employment and found an ad for a receptionist for the Ozarks Area Community Action Corporation, also known as OCAC. I didn't know anything about the company, but I figured it would be a good opportunity to get more experience in a company that may have an opportunity for advancement. Well, when I pulled up to the address I was given, I just about died. I was going to get to see inside the building. I went in and filled out the employment application all the time, hoping I would get the job so I could see the rest of the building. I interviewed for the position and got the job. My first day at OCC in the pythian castle was September 7, 1982. Well, I quickly learned that OCAC is a community action agency serving ten counties in southwest Missouri and is a very busy place. I worked as receptionist for two years, then worked as an intake specialist in the Greene County Neighborhood center for four years, where I got to meet you. Then I moved to the housing assistance program, where I was a housing counselor until 2013 when I became the housing program director, which is my current position at Occ.

[04:07] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Wow. So that was meant to be.

[04:09] NANCY MASNER: Absolutely.

[04:10] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: You had to go to the castle. Well, when you were in the castle during those time, did you have any interesting experiences in the castle?

[04:18] NANCY MASNER: Yes. My desk as receptionist was in the front foyer between the double staircase to the second floor near the double stairs to the basement. I was at my desk one afternoon, and I felt someone push my shoulder as if to get my attention. When I turned around, no one was there. That was my first encounter with the ghost of Pythian Castle. As I got to know the other employees there, I discovered that others had had encounters with spirits as well. Are you kidding me? I get to work at the pythian castle and it's haunted. Life doesn't get any better than that. Or so I thought at any time.

[05:00] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Nancy, were you scared?

[05:02] NANCY MASNER: No.

[05:03] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: You felt good. Okay. Did anything else happen in the castle while you're there?

[05:08] NANCY MASNER: Well, besides meeting many wonderful people and making great friends, including you, Tomasita T. I met my husband Ray at the castle. He worked for the weatherization program and would come to the office a few times a month to turn in paperwork or pick up supplies. The weatherization office was down the east hallway, just inside the front foyer, so he had to pass my desk to get to that office. While the crew leader was in the office, Ray would stop by my desk to say hello and chat for a bit. We became good friends and fell in love. I joked that he was my knight in coveralls who came riding up on a white pickup truck. I could hear that truck pick pull up next to the building to load materials, and when I saw Ray get out, my heart would flutter. After his job with weatherization ended, Ray would still come by the office when he could to have lunch with me. 1 November day he stopped by because he had the afternoon off. I asked him what he planned to do for the afternoon, and his response was, I thought I would go pick up our wedding bands. I asked him what he was going to do with them. He said, you'll wear it, won't you? I told him, not until we're married. He replied, you will wear it, won't you? I realized he wanted to go get married right then. I told him to go ask Pat if I could take the rest of the afternoon off. As I finished up the task I was working on, I was typing that report like the building was on fire. Word got around the building that we were leaving to go get married. My friend Shirley came flying out the front door as we were headed down the steps and asked, are you sure Nancy? And I replied, yes, Shirley, I'm sure. And I've contacted Shirley on our anniversary each year since to let her know I'm still sure. We've been married 37 and a half years and are looking forward to many more years together. When I gave birth to our daughter, Veronica, she became known as the OCC baby everyone loved. When I brought her by the office before or after appointments, she even posed for a photo for an occhere for a teen mother program. I just never understood why they didn't select me to pose as the teen mother. Do you think it was because I was more than ten years past my teens?

[07:34] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: You know, Nance, I think that building was magic for you.

[07:38] NANCY MASNER: I think so.

[07:39] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: You've had a lot of good experiences. You mentioned earlier that the pythian castle is haunted. What makes you think that?

[07:48] NANCY MASNER: Well, I'm empathic, so I feel different energies around me. I grew up in a haunted house, so I became aware of how spirit energy is different than other energies around us. More than once, I saw the spirit of a woman standing by the window in the top tower room. She faded away as I looked at her from the parking area in front of the building. And another experience I had was when I had the opportunity to be in the building at night. Well, you did ask me if I was scared. This one scared me a little bit. I was working with a friend to prep a room to be used as a break room, and we would hear doors slamming shut on the first floor, and we knew no one else was in the building. We never stayed too late when the doors started slamming. Even Ray had experiences in the castle. One time he was walking down the hallway on the first floor when something or someone pushed him up against the wall. No one else was in that hallway. I felt cold spots in the building, heard footsteps in the auditorium when it was empty. I've heard stories from others in the building about their encounters. The castle is now owned by a private owner, and she has told of her encounters with the ghost of the castle. She even hosts ghost tours for the public.

[09:13] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: As you know, I, too, worked at the pythian castle. Were you sad when you left the castle?

[09:21] NANCY MASNER: Yes, but I knew it was time the government was selling the building, and they didn't accept OCAC's bid. The agency is now located in a building that provides access to all, which was very much needed. My parting wish was that someone would buy the castle and restore it to its former glory. The current owner has done that, and I'm so happy to see the improvements. When I visited, I was honored to have been invited to attend the 100th anniversary of the pythian castle in June 2013. Anytime I'm in the neighborhood, I always slow down to take a look at the building and soak in the good vibes of all the wonderful times I experienced there. For some reason, the castle has always called to me, and it still does.

[10:11] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Thank you, Nancy. I learned quite a bit from you that I didn't know. Yeah, well, I might go back to the castle.

[10:22] NANCY MASNER: Well, Tomasita what would you like to talk about today?

[10:26] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: You know, Nance, I would like to talk about my family, parents, my brothers and sisters growing up, and my family heritage.

[10:36] NANCY MASNER: Well, tell me about your mother and father.

[10:38] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Well, my father was born in Lavaca, Jalisco, Mexico, a little town outside the state of Jalisco. The mexican revolution of 1910 escalated, and many people had to escape that area. My father escaped when he was 16 and came to the United States in a boxcar. My father worked as a farmer, working the fields for the big farms who needed workers to pick the crops. He would travel from town to town, wherever there was work, and a lot of this work was done in Colorado. My father also worked the coal mines in Colorado. This was his last job, the last big job that he had, and it was building the big Thompson tunnels with the big Thompson siphon and that in Colorado. My brother Tomasita was killed in one of the tunnels, a mine cave in. Shortly after that, my father was not able to work anymore because he had developed black lung disease from working in the coal mines. During the time when my father wasn't working, he studied to get his us citizenship. With the help of my brother Salvador, my father got his us citizenship when he was 57 years old. You know, Nance, I can still see the picture of my proud father holding the us flag and an apple pie. The people that took the oath that day were on the front page of the newspaper, and I can still see it now.

[12:22] NANCY MASNER: I imagine that apple pie was all the sweeter for his.

[12:26] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Oh, my goodness. You know, I don't even know if he shared it. And my mother, she was born in Platteville, Colorado, in the United States. She had nine siblings. And my mother, she went to school, but she only went as far as the 6th grade. She had to take care of her mom and dad, who seemed to be always ill. She also had a lot of chores to do while she was growing up because she had to take care of her siblings. My mother is my mentor. Although she did not have a formal education, she was brilliant in so many ways, so many areas. She managed food, money, our home, medical needs for the family. My mother was well organized. I'm very proud of my mother.

[13:23] NANCY MASNER: How many children did your mother have?

[13:26] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Well, my mother had twelve children because it's cheaper by the dozen. But my mother had twelve children and I'm fourth from the bottom. My mother and my father were both married before, and then their spouses passed away. And my mother, my father met. Now, remember, my father had nine children on his side, and my mother had five children. When she met my father, they were married and had seven more children. You might call it a family of yours, mine and ours. Family of 21 brothers and sisters. Nancy, 21. And you know what, Nancy? You're part of that family because you're always going to be my sister. I've known you for 35, 36 years, and you've met my family, and so you pretty much know them. When I call home, they'll say, how's Nancy? Or my brother Richard will say, how's my girlfriend? But you'll always be my sister and part of the family, and I'm honored to be so. Thank you, Nance. As the years passed, many of my brothers and sisters have passed away. I recently lost my twin sister. In November of 2021, there are seven of us left out of 21. The holidays. Oh, my goodness. The holidays were so much fun at my house, my mom and my dad's house. Thanksgiving, Christmas, family reunions and Easter. Lots of food everywhere. In a mexican family, you know. And in a mexican family, it's all about food. All about food, family, love and friends. The best tradition in my family continues to be passed down to all the families, which is making hundreds and hundreds of tamales for that special occasion. Because that when you make tamales, that's a labor of love. Labor of love.

[15:33] NANCY MASNER: I've had your tamales, and they are fantastic. I can taste the love.

[15:40] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: One memory I have is Christmas time. I can still see 15 Christmas stockings under the tree. Nancy. And we got to go pick our own stocking from the stocking drawer. We didn't have the stockings that are like today, so I tried to find the biggest, longest stocking. I think I borrowed my brothers. There were stockings filled with candy, nuts, oranges and apples.

[16:06] NANCY MASNER: Well, with that many brothers and sisters, it must have been bustling in your household. Tell me about your brothers and sisters.

[16:13] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Well, it was fun. Growing up in a family this big really was a good thing. The oldest children took care of the younger ones because mama made sure of that. What I do remember the most is that we all used to work together. We worked in the home. We washed dishes, ironing, cleaning, cleaning the house and cooking. My brothers had that chore, too. My mother would have a schedule. It's your turn to do it tonight. From the barn to the house, we carried the wood and coal for the wood stove and the cooking stove. The way we heated, the way my mama cooked. You know, we didn't always work, although I'm making it sound like. But we didn't always work. We also played when the work was done. There was enough of us in the family to have a baseball team and a football team. Yeah. But every summer, my father would plant two acres of a garden. My father, along with my brother and sister, would prepare the field for planting using our neighbor's donkey and a hoe. My father was one who had to make sure that the rows were perfect. No rocks in those rows. No rocks. Instead of picking vegetables, I was picking rocks. My father was detailed when it came to his garden, that's for sure. We worked the garden all summer. Our garden was filled with, you know, corn, tomatoes, onions, squash, pumpkins, cucumbers, many different varieties of chili peppers. Come fall, we'd have to pick all that and store it in the barna. The cucumbers was probably the worst job I ever had because they were prickly and they would scratch my hand. And I can still hear my mother's voice early in the morning. On the weekends, she'd yell out, my children, time to get up. Pick the cucumbers before the sun beats down on you and gets hot. The time was around 06:00 in the morning. My parents couldn't afford a lot of gloves, so we were given one glove to pick the cucumbers. We wore that glove, and I can still remember so well on the right hand, because then we would flip the cucumbers that were buried underneath the plant. Sometimes I would find a big cucumber because we forgot to pick them a couple days before. And then I'd try to hide it from my daddy, because that was something you don't do. It's a waste. We would fill gunny sacks with these little cucumbers. My parents would then take them to the pickle plant down the street and sell them. This was another way that my family made money. My parents would give us each a dime to do whatever we wanted to do. Our earnings. We all wanted to go to the ice cream store. What fun that was. I'd get an ice cream and pistachios for a dime. Not only did we work in our own garden, we worked gardens for the big farmers. My parents would take us to the cherry orchards, the beet fields, the onion fields, and the cabbage fields. When I helped pick the cherries, I think I ate more than I put in the crate. Working the fields and the orchards was another way of my parents making money for the family. My mother, she always made our jobs fun. When it was time to stop picking, she would yell out, time to have a picnic. We get all excited. She would put a huge blanket on the ground and with a tablecloth. I remember eating foods like burritos, corn on the cob, cucumbers, tomatoes, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. What a picnic we all had. I also remember taking a nap under the tree. But mama and my dad didn't mind because we were just children growing up. My mother and my father taught their children great worth, ethics, honesty, dependability, and to do the right things in life after a job was done. My mother would say to us, when you have a job to do, do the best you know how you will earn respect and gain the trust from the people you work for and with. Because of the way we were taught growing up, all my siblings had successful lives. And, you know, Nancy, I want to tell you that your friendship is a gift. And what a gift it is. Nance, I am so grateful to have you as my sister. My friend. You have taught me so much in life. I am truly blessed beyond measure. Thank you so much, Nancy.

[21:38] NANCY MASNER: I agree that our friendship is a treasure. And I especially love teaching you how to drive in Springfield.

[21:45] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Oh, yeah. Now I'm in Springfield.

[21:48] NANCY MASNER: Got to take those back roads. You'll save some time. Well, thank you Tomasita t. I learned a lot about you and your family, and I can see why you probably would need a nap after eating all those cherries that you were picking from the cherry trees.

[22:02] TOMASITA TRAMMELL: Yeah, that was a good life.