Nancy Mosley and Emily Bosch

Recorded July 28, 2021 Archived July 28, 2021 55:22 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv001025


One Small Step participants Nancy Mosley [no age given] and Emily Bosch [no age given] discuss their upbringing, how they approach the present day political landscape, and how they both like living in Birmingham.

Subject Log / Time Code

Emily (E) talks about her upbringing in South Dakota and joining the debate team in high school. She says she now works as a press secretary for an environmental non-profit. Emily says in her work she tries to make environmental issues accessible.
Nancy (N) shares her life story: she was born in New York and raised to Florida, went to college in Mississippi, and now works selling cheerleading uniforms. She has lived in Birmingham nearly her whole life and has been married to her husband for nearly 20 years. N says she is ready to move on to something else career wise.
E and N talks about why they wanted to do the interview today.
N recalls her earliest memory of politics: when Jimmy Carter won the presidency. She remembers that even though her parents didn’t vote for Carter, life went on the next day.
E remembers her earliest political memory: 9/11. She recalls the rapid changes she observed in society. E says the event broke the wall of childhood for her.
N says her parents are great and raised her with great values: kindness, unconditional love, and acceptance.
E talks about her best friend who was always reliable, present, and gave unconditional love.
E describes winters North Dakota. She says it’s so cold and there is such little light that things really slow down.
E talks about where she went to college and grad school.
E explains why her dad was influential on her political beliefs. She says both her parents are very devout Catholics and lifelong democrats. E says a lot of that influenced her passion for lifting up marginalized voices. She says growing up her dad exhibited a selfless generosity; as an assistant principal, he would come in early, offer to take students to buy a new pair of shoes or buy them breakfast, etc.
N explains why her dad has been influential on her views. She says he now volunteers through his Baptist church. N says she worries about the present breakdown of families.
E talks about teaching her students that no issue is black and white.
E talks about how her background in debate has informed her inclination to do deep research on topics to try and find “objective,” data-driven information. She says she approaches news with extreme skepticism.
N recalls watching NBC news with her husband and seeing a story completely mutated in how it was presented over a week.
E shares her thoughts of Birmingham and says she is excited to see more of the city. She talks about the differences socially between Birmingham and the midwest.


  • Nancy Mosley
  • Emily Bosch

Recording Location

Virtual Recording

Partnership Type




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00:01 Do Emily and Nancy for joining me and I would like to start by having y'all read each other's files. So Emily. How do you feel about starting my reading Nancy's aisle? So Nancy's bio is, I was born in New York move to Florida and Elementary School went to college in Mississippi. And now reside in Birmingham. I've been here since college, graduation 30-year Timeflies, married and divorced. My college sweetheart remarried to the love of my life. No kidding. We have two boys, 6th and 11th. Grade family. Life is a rollercoaster, not unlike anyone else. I'm interested in participating because I'm tired of media and politicians saying, their views enough times to make me believe their views are true.

00:48 Nancy, can you take a moment to read Emily's, email and move from Birmingham about a year ago from North? It has been a big eye opener in terms of what Southern Culture is like and also how damaging stereotypes can be in high. Join the debate team and fell in love with learning about the different sides of every issue. Debate, made me stop a staunch advocate for the rights of all people, but especially writes for the most marginalized in society.

01:22 So now can I ask a few questions to get us started? And the first question is if you can each take five minutes or less to tell each partner, your life story as fast as you can so you can repeat some of the things that you mentioned in your bio and just kind of filled in any caps who would like to start.

01:45 I can start. That's fine. So I grew up in South Dakota. That's where I was boring. That's why I was raised. So I grew up kind of

01:54 All throughout the Midwest, chicken road trips with my family. So very much a Midwestern girl at my heart when I went to college. I you know, continued I was on the debate team in high school, debated in college. And then I went to grad school for communication studies because I thought coaching debate, which what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to help give students kind of experience that I had. It terms of the growth development as a person with respecting other people's opinions and just really learning from every side of every issue. So I taught and coached debate at the college level, for three years and discovered frequently hit, that was not really the test for me. I love teaching, I love working with students and I love mentoring students. Really. Sorry. My dog is going to, Ohio.

02:55 Caroline.

03:05 They cannot rely family. So after I just jump right back in after 4, you know, I realize that that really wasn't where my passion was. I really wanted to do something to help better the world. I saw all of these problems around me and was like, what can I do with the skills that I have to kind of make the world more livable. So I now work as a press secretary for an environmental nonprofit. So what I really try to do is translate the various environmental issues. We have water pollution, air pollution. What have you to the general audience? So, talking to reporters, creating kind of communication that is acceptable to other people. Because I recognize my kind of immense privilege with researching and understanding those issues. And that not everyone has that same opportunity.

04:05 So that's kind of where I am. Now. That's what brought me to Birmingham. So yeah, that's those are gaps that I filled it. I think.

04:16 All right. So then how about you Nancy? Moved in fifth grade to Gulf Breeze Florida and live live there until I went off to college to Southern Mississippi University of Southern Mississippi ended up moving to Birmingham or a job that I'm still doing today, which is I sell cheerleading and dance team uniforms and in college, I worked instructing College on college campuses, cheerleading and dancing camps, like directed those. We still hold those Nationwide. You smiled. You know what I'm talking about?

05:08 Did ballet first 15 years, having a joke about pom pom. Panics today about like pom, poms or whatever is wrong. And I was going to be a teacher job opened up in December and I got hired in January. There's no teachers. I finished up school and all I got was, nobody got pregnant. Know everyone came back. So he wasn't offered a job. If so, someone that was with my company was like, you want to make sure I was from a small town in Florida. They have, I have lived in Birmingham. I had boyfriends that I ended up with my college, sweetheart got divorced, 3 years, and no, heartbreak, whatever, that is. All that went on, but I ended up I joke, I mean, it's so funny. What I wrote like, I really do. Love my husband.

06:06 Is awesome, and my best friend. I think he thinks I'm pretty great too. But anyway, but I ended up meeting him. He's a little few years younger than I am. But we ended up meeting and I have been married him almost nineteen years now. And we've got two boys. I know it's funny. I guess I wrote this. I have now a senior in high school and I have a 7th grader and I live in Vestavia Hills. I don't know where you live. I live in each other at Publix. Now, I realize I'm in sales right now. I feel like with can tell you a little bit more. I've done it long enough and I'm ready to do something else. And I feel like I'm not, you know, it's it's it's a great job. My company has a great core value of. We are really trying to build schools build the spirit of schools make, you know, the communities better places, which we do, but I just I'm a sales rep. Now, I go in and I have fun with girls went with them.

07:06 Cheerleader, dance team tryouts and I'm there for no 2 hours and I'm gone. And I that's why I went into teaching Ashley to be some sort of role model to be some sort of influence on people's lives. Anyway, that said backing up. I also teach yoga. I have not done it since my now 12 year old that was about 4 so I can get back into that. My husband's about to retire. He's in law enforcement, or is he's a federal probation officer. He's about to retire, he's 50, but he's so he's going to do something else. Something. We don't know what he's going to do, but it may get is giving me the opportunity to not be such a breadwinner, any longer. I guess. This is how I can say that. It, maybe do something that I can do and not be so dependent on what my salary brings in right now. I guess it's, you know, I hate to say, I can't even see each other, but I hope to make older people feel better about themselves. I hope to be. No, I want to bring positive energy to

07:59 Not just girls are already positive. Like I do, they're already there. I want to do something that said, that's pretty much. I mean, where I am. And you know, I think you're looking at what I wrote, where I am. I think in just Society on maybe that's why I didn't sign up for this. I feel like if people aren't old enough. I just don't want to watch the news anymore. Going back to adjust, what's going on in the news and just what's going on in the world. It's like, if you owe me on the news story, long enough, something is right. I supposed to start believing it, even though I don't believe it, you know, deep down, so, and I mean some things, I do some things I do, but looking at that I see why I ended up writing what I wrote. I must have been after I'd seen something in the news like wait a minute and talk to you long. What's the next question? What are the great transition to the next question because you want to do the interview for the day.

08:59 Before joining the interview.

09:02 I love conversation. I love talking to people. You know, I really did debate for like a decade, will be a lot of people have a perception that debate is very adverse and confrontational for sure. But at least in the type of academic debate that I did. It was always very very respectful. And so I miss having those dialogues with people about important issues and things we might disagree on cuz I I hear you Nancy with, you know, the the new cycle kind of always being so polarized on One Direction or the other. We don't really have objective news like that doesn't really anymore. And I think that, you know, having those conversations as one of the most important things we can do to actually learn about that difference. And also, you know, being not at all from the south, you know, moving here from the Midwest during the Middle.

10:03 How many conversations with, you know, new people different people. And so I was like, yes, this is an opportunity to chat with someone from from Birmingham who I might run into a public, right?

10:19 Wilton just piggyback on what you just said to. I remember one course. I took. I mean, my debate, horse one horse. I mean, you hate, it was your major one of my favorite can agree to disagree. That's what I learned that like, I don't have to, I might have to force my opinion, aren't you? We can just walk away and be like, I get it, you know, and I loved, and I felt that was a, I remember that always now and I just remember that one. And also learned really about the word peruse cuz we use with him back to debate and I see what you're saying. It can be like, people think we can't argue argue may be the wrong word to use but you can't have a discussion with people. I say, yes, you're right. It's like it's my way or the highway and I don't think it lies needs to be that way either. So I mean we can be respectful and talk about things.

11:15 I'm so, so the next question is, what is your earliest memory of politics? And I want to kind of rephrase it and offer a second question. If it speaks more to you which is what is an early memory of a moment, a moment where you realize like something you really cared about right? So I can be your earliest memory of politics like going to vote or a moment. When you are like oh education is something I'm really passionate about or like healthcare. I really care about that.

11:50 I can I'm going to go or I don't know that and I don't know what year was, but we still lived in New York and Jimmy Carter won the presidency. And I with my parents are born and I mean, being born in New York and my mother and father. It was like, the not the worst thing, but it was like, they were shocked that this Southerner again. I know I've lived in the South most of my life, but my accent, a lot of times people are like, we're completely Southern of what some people do, but I can remember that. And I also remember that life is fine the next day after it happens like in my dad house just because the person my parents, I can't remember who they ran against, honestly don't even know that. But I just remember like

12:39 Life went on and that's why I always think like after it, every election cycle and I was telling my kids. If you don't want to life is still going to go on. It may not be exactly but it's not going to change your life completely that you can't survive. If you know. Just with all that's happening with all of our elections now and all of the things like the how people are behaving. It's like I remember, I think I was taught the right way with my parents, you know. Yeah, we didn't, who are our guy didn't win, but, you know, that's okay. We're going to be able to see, you know, our Life Will Go On. So yeah, that's my memory of my first political memory.

13:18 Mine is I think political memory for probably almost everyone, my age. The one that really sticks out is 9:11 cuz I was in 5th grade. So certainly old enough to kind of understand what that meant and just the rapid change in society that I observed after that instance, you know, flying was different. The way that certain people in my community were treated started to change and just stopped full-size makeshift. I think that our entire nation experience when that has happened and we're still kind of in that moment of, you know, we just for example, President Biden just said, you know, we're going to pull our troops fully out of Afghanistan which is wild to me because that was now 20 years ago that that one, you know, event happened in change. All of our lives in the whole kind of political trajectory.

14:18 The country in our world. So I really that that wouldn't really, really sticks out to me. And so, my dad was the assistant principal of my high school. So, you know, that was really fun for me because we don't know when when and where something like this could happen. And so, I think that was kind of a seismic event. That really catapulted me into paying attention whatsoever. What was happening in the world around me. It kind of, I think, broke the, I don't know how to say this, but it kind of like broke that Wallace childhood friend like, oh, there's this whole world outside of my experience that impacts me and impacts. All of these other people that I can't just ignore. And so, I asked the one that really sticks out for me, I think.

15:19 Piggyback on that of one. This is just me. I used to work cheerleading camps. I remember being at Furman University. Know, we can go to war and we would never even know what was going on. You just appeared in our little bubble of what's happening in the time. I think everybody is but I know what you're saying. It's like, then I'm thinking of the Iraq War. I mean that happening. I was just graduated from college at the time and it's just like you heard about things. I mean, I know fifth grade you were listening to history of and the minimal stuff that you're learning been. But then all the sudden, something like that happened and you're totally like what the heck mine's a little later? Obviously, I mean just because and I had, we were dating. I just remember that. And I remember NPR was still talking when I got in from walking one day. And usually music was on our never and they said, we take a person. I'd like a price.

16:18 Play today's hits, one of the towers, you know, I get all it was like it all happened. And then I remember that not to jump on that. But the fact like, we thought we'd in the world did change that day. Is my point. Like, in a horrible way. It was just like everyone's questioning everybody. Like, wait a minute. What do you know? Who are you at? What are you? What's your name?

16:43 Outside, talk more about that later on in the interview. So the last question is, if you can each tell me about someone who has been a kindness to you and your life and it's not a particular person that stands out particular. Incident of exceptional kindness.

17:05 If she's home, I can go. I just feel like I had just had great parents growing up just in the fact of how I was raised this with. I hope I have values on and still on my children as well, that I was taught. Just kind of, I just feel like whatever I did not mean, I wasn't like, what kind of person was I or what? But, you know, even when I screwed up, I mean I there was always an unconditional love. My mother passed away almost now, four years ago, and it was the worst thing. I think, you know,

17:44 For me, does that mean your grandpa or your grandparents passing away? Was not your parent, but I just I'd my parents are I have to say is tough love, you know, in trouble but just always accepted and always able to go to them with whatever and just knowing you say kindness. I just feel like with I can go further with kindness in the fact of just always.

18:08 Wisdom and it, which is kind of a child showing them that they, you know, my two parents with, we're just wonderful and wonderful loving couple were doing the best they could. And with raising us might have a sister as well. My older sister, but just I find kindness with that. It's just lucky and blessed. Very blessed by that.

18:29 I feel like I could definitely say my parents as well. But you honestly summarized parental love. So so if that's true, but another person that really comes to mind for me is my best friend, Kayla, who literally would drop anything on the planet to come help me. And I think that, I think that that level of reliability and also just unconditional love to definitely exists that I think a lot about my various, you know, female friendships that I have in there. You know, I'm blessed to have several best friends, but he was one of those friends who, you know, I moved to Birmingham last summer in the middle of depends on. How are we going to do this and not get sick and be safe? And I remember her being the first one. He was like, all right, let's let's plan it. Let's figure it out. We're going to recruit. Some friends. Will create a bubble will get the U-Haul will do it. And then, you know, I'll take the risk and fly back to Fargo in the middle of the pandemic. Just to make sure we get you there safe.

19:29 You know, one of those moments like, she didn't have to do that. Those are really big asked it specially so early during, you know, the during covid. Like, we didn't really know a lot about how it was spreading or even how your it would be for some people versus other. So that was a really big moment of Just Like Home. I, my friends really have my back and I think that that's so so critical.

19:57 I miss her.

20:09 So now I might invite you based on those couple questions. If you have any follow-up questions for your partner.

20:19 Well, I want to know this is Billy but what's it like in North Dakota in the winter time? Like we can actually get out of your house. I mean if it's that exists, I want to know who has the money for it because there was near my family but you know, it's it's brutal. Like I always tell people, you have several months of the year where you're just kind of alone because you can certainly hang out with your friends, but you're not going to go out and do stuff very much kind of in your space there and maybe a friend's face playing board games or maybe having some wine. It's a very

21:02 It's very slow is what I would call it because also you're so far north that you don't get much of daylight, you know, it's dark when you go to work. It's dark. When you go home and snow that experience is very it slows things down is what I would say. Kind of like the summer here, slows things down, almost the opposite of that. Where is the summers in? North Dakota are beautiful. Perfect weather for 75 in like 30%? Humidity everyday, like perfect. And so it's been a very interesting kind of Engagement with how I experienced time during the seasons, I guess, because I feel like winter in North Dakota, everything slows down summer here in the South people slow down cuz it's so hot. You can you can't really engaged in that level. So that's really why I was driving past. The snow is just awful. The last winter. I had there was a very, very snowy snowy winter and I have a photo of me with snow and I'm 57, so I'm not super short. I have no like, you know,

22:02 My hip and that's just how it is. You just learn to deal with it and it's a very interesting as well because I feel like I'm driving here when it's rainy is terrifying to me. It really is scary and I would take the winter driving any time over the rain and so it's all just a matter of perspective, really? Because it's going to happen. It just know, I'm not going anywhere and I'm like, this is nothing y'all. Come on.

22:31 I brought you from New York to the South. Well, my dad worked for New York tell and his ear and this is a fun fact. I'll tell you my dad actually had an office at the World Trade Center when they were building it at the time. This is when we had wired earphones and that was the big thing, but he did that all the wiring design actually had men working, but design for the setting. All the office is up with all the phone at the time, but he ended up.

23:06 He works in the city and took the train to the city. Every day. We lived in, has not suburbs, but it's like outside telling Francesca. I'm from a county. That's right. Outside of the state, like, Manhattan people know. Like you said, New York City. We were on the island Long Island. If you have

23:30 10 years of my life out. They but anyway, he ended up going in and he got a promotion to move and work for southern belle, which was, I think BellSouth, I think I got with all AT&T now to take it back. So, is that long ago, but I know he ended up. They offered him a job to move to Florida, and he's a joke with him as he was wearing his three-piece suits down in Florida, which is totally wearing their short sleeve but not yet. But, but dad's, my dad's showing up and is 3 ft in a vest. And I'll at the time, this is the seventies I have to say when leisure suits which neither one of you probably know what that is, but a polyester leisure suit were really big for men to John Travolta. All that kind of stuff down. And then we Pensacola, which I'm actually from the town of Gulf Breeze, which is right on over the bridge between Pensacola Beach. If you start a vacation around here, it's outside of Gulf Shores and

24:30 Call Ed and you got and then you got Rosemary Beach bike along the coast, but when I moved all my friends are like to PepsiCo, I do you know, silly but like no particular Pensacola was but that's why, that's why we ended up moving there and then some Elvis at all. Answer a question. You haven't asked me yet. But some people like, why is going to college in Mississippi. Are you where you wondering? And I'll just get an answer that just because people ask, that Southern Miss is where I'm where. I went to school is 3 hours from Pensacola. If a coastal school, so you got people from Biloxi and mobile and Pensacola, and we should go to cheerleading camp there, and it's a beautiful campus. Not go to school there, but it really is like, it's like a smaller Auburn is a bit, just a gorgeous Tampa. But anyway, so they kind of recruited I was on the dance team. So I was, I was in Dixie Darling, which they're going to change the name at some point. I know.

25:30 I am in there and my sister went to Florida State and that I don't think I would have graduated. I went and visited her a couple of times and call it. I mean, in high school and I was like,

25:42 That was correct. 12 a.m. 12 a.m. You had to leave the bars for a while back in the eighties. And I think the Mississippi kept me out of trouble a little bit around the Florida state, with all the other way. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So I went to college at LaGuardia College in Moorhead, Minnesota. The very, very small liberal arts school. Lutheran School, and I went there because they recruited me to debate that was also kind of why I ended up going there and I had a great experience. It was a really, really good place and printed similarly, when I went to grad school. I went to the University of Kansas down in Lawrence, Kansas.

26:42 And I had gone to debate camp, they're in high school, which is why I wanted to go there. So it's it's a weird. But I think it's a great tool for colleges. It really is. I mean, I mean like any way that they got me I'm still if you're not a roll Tide girl, not yet. They haven't gotten here yet, right.

27:18 Hey, I don't know if Francesca's going to say something or we're just supposed to keep talking but I am interested in going to the group question. Okay, so I'm curious if there is a person that was influential in shaping your political beliefs on if. So, what did they teach you?

27:47 I can answer this right off the bat. My dad definitely was the most important person in shaping my political beliefs. So, like I mentioned he was the assistant principal of my high school. So that was also kind of a weird relationship to have. Obviously, you always kind of feel like you're being watched, but my parents are both very devout Catholics. So that stays background. Certainly influenced. I think what I believe about the world cuz I was raised Catholic and I'm not Catholic anymore. I don't practice any faith, but that kind of respect for love or respect for your neighbor. Kind of Golden Rule was certainly influential in. So both of my parents are lifelong, Democrats. They are the kind of interesting unique Kennedy Democrats, right? Cuz that's certainly kind of the air has a, they became politicized in. And so a lot of that certainly influenced my

28:47 You know, passion for lifting up. The those of us in society where most marginalized in particular people, you know who are experiencing poverty or experiencing homelessness. I think there's so much that we can do as a broader Society to make sure people have livelihood and have the resources that they need to thrive, which, of course, maybe not, of course, but in my, in my opinion, is one of the best ways we can lift up all other aspects of society, whether that crime, whether that be other types of violence that people experience, because they don't have other options. So, I think a lot about how to, how we can alleviate those forms of social, kind of marginalization, and I think that really is what influenced me and not totally one-hundred-percent, comes for my dad because I saw him growing up, you know.

29:43 Some of the students, you know, that the school that he was the assistant principal at, you know, he would take them to go get a new pair of shoes or, you know, they come in early, I can get you some breakfast. Or hey, do you need a ride after school? I can, I can take you to work or whatever. And I think seeing that just like, selfless, generosity from him, really inspired me to try to do that in my own life, because he is truly the most selfless and generous person that I ever ever known. And I'm so thankful that he's my own dad, because I think that he really set such a strong example for me for what I like, kind of my political beliefs Center on which is helping your neighbor, like, whatever we can do to help your neighbor. I think that's what we should do.

30:31 Thank you, honey. That sounds sounds like your dad was an amazing person and a great friendship. It's well-deserved. How about you Nancy? It does at that. Anyone comes to mind.

30:50 I feel like we just love our parents. But I mean, I could say in different aspects of what you're talking about. Your dad are my parents. Do you like my dad's been retired? He's 83 now and he has expired since he's 58. He worked to retire. You don't like be likely saved. But he now he volunteers, he works at, you know, who works at various places to his church. My parents were our Baptist Christian free Christian Bay, but then you were raise, but I'm talking about, like, the what's going on in society or people that have it, that needs a little bit of help.

31:39 I really wish that the breakdown of family and our Uniworld wasn't what it is. It just seems that you know, you're saying about your being raised and just buy it just supported you. And I feel the same way and I just feel like nowadays. It's kind of

31:58 The issues going on seeing. It's like, a lack of love. It's a lack of feeling good about yourself. And I'm not saying, like, there's a whole lot of stuff going on, but I got me and my husband in law enforcement and he's a probation officer. He's not, he's got a gun in the bag, but he's helped his job is to help who has screwed up, who wants to pay restitution or whatever, you know, he's, he's trying to help and hit. He's really discourage with his position now and why you want stand up retiring because he feels like a criminals or people that he's worked with. There was a time that man, I really shouldn't have done what I did. How can I make this, right? And there's been a shift in the criminal, it's now it's I'm caught and he's constantly was telling me today before he's going to work. He's got there. Not what he's dealing with, is very discouraging as

32:52 Someone trying to help somebody straighten your life out where as they're not person that he's trying to help isn't helping them self. And it seems, I let me know when he talks about the backgrounds. I don't really don't just completely discuss his. We stay clients in a nice way, just but the fact of that, there's just no whole home at, you know, in a lot of the cases and I just like, I wish there was something you could a magic little wine. You could go. Okay, you're in a year. You've been told how wonderful you are that you're, you know, a creation of God. And maybe I don't mean to throw a religion, but just the fact that we are all wonderfully made and and worth something and it just seems like I feel like that's a lot of our problems in society, are dealing with people that are

33:38 Don't feel that way about themselves and their struggling reaching and doing things that are not going to fulfill inside. Nothing seems that they're doing is filling a hole, that's not filled and it needs to be filled by loving people. So

33:56 I totally hear you. I think there needs to be a more more love. It'll all all around. I think that and you all probably experience this and think about this too. We just sort people into like, these buckets. Like, you are a person, you are a good person. There's no middle. There's no gray space where people can make mistakes and try to better their lives or better, their relationships. And it's, and I think that you are so much also would like our political polarization and there's no room for like complexity or Nuance or inch and I think that's not helping, literally any of us at all.

34:45 Tell me when person is perfect that you know, like I only know of one and it is amazing to me that the interesting Lee when you were saying, you know working for a non-profit. There's one in Birmingham the Lovelady Center that if you owe, I'm telling you, if you really read, there's a book called the love. I just gave it to a friend of mine.

35:18 Something to love ladies. I can't think of it, but it's about the story of that starting and how the women went to jail and, and ended up starting this wonderful home for women in the fact, is you talking about addiction? Her whole mentality is, you don't have to live the cycle of Joe. I'm an addict. If you can walk around everybody. Hey, I'm an addict. I'm an addict and, you know, I'm a recovering addict. The fact is she just the Lovelady Center Thrift Store. She just gives life to these women and the stories and of how it started. If you ever get a chance, read that one time I went there are, you know, one of the women who was working kind of explains us the story of the center and who they helping a damn. This is the place that I will be supporting because yeah, you know, she's in the whole philosophy of just like Come As You Are, we don't care. If you have addiction substance, abuse domestic violence, like we will take you and love you and help you get on your feet. And I think that's our fault. It is

36:18 So powerful, and so rooted in like a place of no judgment. And I think that's so missing. In all of our guests are so quick to judge, which is exactly where we lose that complexity that gray, that middle when I was teaching. The one thing I tried to always get my students to learn and I talked primarily like, first-year public speaking. That was what I was teaching, which is a terrifying class for most students. No one wants to talk in front of people. But the one thing I tried to always get them to learn. Is like, there is no black and white. It doesn't exist. No issue is ever black and white. There's always Shades of Grey in the middle. And I think that we've really a lot of people is really just forgotten that and think that you can sort neatly into two size.

37:10 You know, I feel like that's when you were talking about news. I feel like, you know, you only get nudes from so many places. It's not like, and I wish there was that, quote new store. That just told me what happened today. In the fact of a couple of things like the Border crisis, for two weeks. You only see that right now, it's the covid crisis. It's like who's picking the news that you're watching anyway, but that's just an aside of what I'm going to say. I find that anyone I talk to you know, just like I was talking about this. It's like most I talk to you. I'm not on a divided of something with anybody. Like I just like to talk to people and, you know, get to know people and see what's going on. Even someone even if I don't agree or even if we don't have some, something's going to come up later in this discussion. It's not going to break my life. I've oh my gosh, Emily, I mean

38:10 Somebody telling me that, I don't like this because of this, but then, I'll turn to channel. It's so funny. I I mean, I do, I flip channels. I'll go like CNN and Fox News or something. I want to know what everybody's talking about. You know, I want to know your, what's your focus? Is it? What were they saying on this channel about this? Because it is it is black and white. There is nobody saying how, you know what? I feel like I live in the middle. I don't know if you do too, but I feel like everyone. I know, I'm not not, everybody's like me. I work, my customers. I have the entire Birmingham city, which would be just like, New York City. Or I don't know what big cities in North Dakota and I don't know where I'm going. I mean, you know socio-economics. I don't treat anybody any differently and they don't treat me any differently. I can be the only person of my color in a school and it is just like if I was standing in a school

39:10 It looks just like me you don't say. So I just have I'm tired of someone telling me that I don't like other people for a certain reason. You know me. I just I have an issue with that. Reason why I wanted to do this little dink troubled, what I'm supposed to think, or being told what, whoever the news people are. Whoever they're little people up in the little, I don't Glass Tower or whatever. People say that Ivory Tower that what it's called, but just someone like, oh, that we're going to put this out there on the news today and here are anyway, and I think that's, you know, talking about the news and thinking about media. I work in media primarily. That's kind of my nonprofit space that I work in. It is really, you know,

39:57 People have their specific, you know, it's usually who's writing the checks, but people have specific orientation Sports, all kinds of issues. And even if you try to say, hey, there's this other thing we should in Jackson for this conversation to make it more complex than, you know, that's not always possible because there's a deadline or because of a word count or whatever and it's just really disheartening that we don't have you. No news forces. And I know there are some obviously that are better at this than others, but when you know, whatever it is like three or four companies own all of the media, it's like they're not going to say anything negative about the hand that feeds them.

40:43 Objective and obviously objectivity doesn't really exist, but like, even a semblance of neutral running shoes. It's always politicized. And if you don't believe it this way than you are wrong or vice versa, and that's me. It's not good for our like suicidal psyche. I don't think for us for just like be fed all of this information that like, if you did, but don't believe this. You are evil and wrong and whatever and what else and it's it's not good for us. It's really nice for us. You know, it's like I talk to my husband about it. I wish there was something that actually changed. You know me like, where is the chat? I mean, I'm not really asking that. Maybe you have some great idea to tell me that I posted like, I talk to my friends about this. It's like where? I mean, if I don't have any power, but it's like

41:42 How how how can we change that? You know, how can we change it? Hey, here's the middle. You know, I mean what you're saying? I like a little bit of whatever people say the silent majority. I mean, I mean, I don't know if that's what I am but is that who the people are just complaining about the butt size and now we're in the middle of going. Okay. I'm being told something. I like to know. What can we do about is having conversations with other people, you know, or people, you don't know. I think that humanizing and remembering that these people who have been painted to be evil them over there against us are still people. We're still friends with lives and families and complex emotions and feelings. And I think so often with the way.

42:42 We have this us than dichotomy with literally everything that dehumanization of the side that you're opposing is so harmful, and I think that's a huge part of what's been happening in our media cycle. And in our political it is just like those people are wrong. They don't deserve respect. They are not human or whatever and that happens in both directions. And oh, yeah, I mean, it's not one side of the other. Yeah. I have a question for both of you. So,

43:26 In this landscape that you're both talking about where the media is.

43:32 Telling you but what to believe and there's a lot of noise. How do you each go about? Kind of quieting? The noise at?

43:42 And developing your personal beliefs and the things that you care about, like your individual policy. How do you go about that? How do you kind of like quiet things? So that your kind of thing balancing focus on your beliefs, the multiple sides of every issue. So, not just like, turning on, I don't know, CNN or fox or whatever turning on blunt station and ever trying to unpack and understand. But for me, and I realize that this comes through an immense amount of academic probation particular, I can go do the scientific or, you know, academic research two really fine in some kind of objective, obviously, doesn't really pissed, but some some more neutral, data-driven science-driven information or, you know, even a lot of academics.

44:42 Explain into still multiple sides of the issues and what they mean, and I'm packet. And so for me, I'm always questioning. I'm always skeptical. I like approach news and media with extreme skepticism. And I think that skepticism ball gets such a Negative wrap. It gets like you, but it's also, we do have such a noisy and cluttered media environment. I think you have to be skeptical of all of the information, you ingest and really try to research it. So, if I see something, for example, that makes me really mad. I read an article and I'm like, wow, this is, this is pissing me off. This is making me really angry. I tried to go. Make sure that that article wasn't just trying to make me mad that it was coming from a place of malady. And I think that we also live in a world in which people can kind of selectively choose what realities they want to live in and they want to believe in.

45:42 And so I tried really hard to not fall into that trap cuz I think it's really easy to seek out media and seek out information that you confirmed what you already believe. So I have to be free actively fight that impulse, which is sometimes really hard. It's an everyday and every day challenge specific memory or example, Emily, that comes to mind. If something were you you read something? Initially, like you mentioned them were either very angry or upset and then you could further research and we're like, oh, well, actually actually this was cute in this way. They're actually, this is actually wrong and I'm upset about this, you know,

46:27 And how about you Nancy? Has Emily thinks about that? I'm going to answer your question with what you just asking. Then I'm going to go back to where I get for him from. So one night. I was watching NBC news with, with my husband's. I thought he was on his name now and we watch the story. Can't even think about this. The other day. We were recently had a drink 5:30 NBC. Nightly News comes on. We're sitting there and we see a store, can we see the full, whatever, whoever was being interviewed? Saw the interview. However, 15 seconds of someone talk and that was that night Monday, Tuesday cup gone, you see a little bit of that interview and then I hear Brian Williams telling me about what was said the next night, and it might not be exactly one right after the other. And then next night. It's

47:22 Completely change the story of what I saw on Monday and it was an opinion of what was said. I remember that thinking that was in that with might have been, I don't know how many years is a long time ago that we have met on the news in a long time. But I remember as and I'm going to do them for it has been within 10 years ago and I sitting there each night going. What happened was different than what actually we saw. So I've been and I'm probably going off track here, but I'm a big Advocate or proponent of seeing the person saying it. I don't like someone telling me what somebody said and that is what the Talking Heads. Our news are already hearing is what they're all he really said that I like my so, thank you. Thank you, but I can hold on.

48:21 I just hang out how you want to see. What someone said, not what someone thinks someone I really like to go back to see what was that or read scripts of the script of what was said versus just taking? What is instead by someone telling me what was said or done or what happened, going back to what I do and just kind of quiet the noise. I just go back to my mom used to say to me and you have to focus in on your home is what she used to say. You have to make your home The Haven for your family and I live. I feel like we do that. We hear, you know, what, one thing I have to say, Don and I were raised differently. The news wasn't always on when I was raised that we didn't have whatever. On all the time, my parents, which they live close to us, where they are. The news is in the background, you can be whatever. But there's always like, there's always something going.

49:21 Not, I just can't stand. I mean, I wanted to have quiet and do thing. But but I want to that's what makes me feel better about what's happening. Cuz that's the only thing we really have control of what's around us in our circle. Of if it's friends or your family or what that keeps me grounded, in all the crap that's out there that I see that you here and all the negativity and all that. So I hope I answered both of those the right way. I mean not the right way, but

49:55 I have about 10 ish minutes left. Y'all have any questions you want to ask? Or should I give you another question?

50:08 I don't have any specific question.

50:11 How about you? What do you think about Birmingham? You know, I really wish I have seen more of it. I've been, you know, taking the the covid situation, very seriously, but now that I'm back slated. I I feel like I can actually go explore yet. So I've done some some stuff downtown. I love that Railroad Park is beautiful. Yeah, and it's been a huge shift for me because the Midwest small talk focusrite like, hey, how are you? Good, moving on with the day. I don't feel like that is the same here. I feel like people are like, hey, how are you have a whole conversation? It's not like the nicety. And so, even engaging in a different like people engage with you differently. People are much more interested in just like chatting which have been so interest.

51:11 Because I'm like, whoa, I don't want you to know me. I was working for shipt. She had like all the bags and stuff and like just people watch it. And I feel like that's Jude, after being inside, you know, for a year-and-a-half or whatever like people watching. So fun and the food here is the maze-like. There's such good here, like people can use seasoning & Spices, which is better as long as you've been alive. I have to say booty City. I mean really great restaurants in overtime, but are there up really good places to eat, but I do feel like I am one, who would talk to you?

52:11 Like or small talk with you in the lot. I mean, I think a lot of people are like that. I mean, there are people that do not again, we don't want to cuz I mean, I know what you're saying in the fact, like it is, you know, people are interested. In other people. I have people are doing or, you know, it's I do love that about the south. It was a little aside. I went back with my mom when I was a junior in high school, back up to New York City. And we stay with some of her friends for spring break. We went up there. I can remember you being a last at not laugh laugh by answering because I, when I was ten, I mean we didn't say. Yes, ma'am. No man, but as I was in Gulf Breeze and talk and I say I sent used to say that I'm too old to say. Yes. Ma'am, to a woman now, like I learned that in my twenties like you don't say that you say yeah, but at the time, I remember saying no sir to the science teacher with everyone, I would have been in school with you. I went back to school for the day. I didn't say that part.

53:11 He's asked me a question. I was like I said, oh, yes, sir. Everyone like went off like

53:23 So, I mean I feel like people are more respectful now, you know, or I don't know. I just feel like where we are in the South. There is a true Southern Charm. People are friendly. And I remember we went through a toll booth and it was like we didn't have the change right away and everybody was mad and behind us, when we were driving in New York. And I was like, I mean, I'm glad you moved just for me or no offense, but do you know it's a big city life. Everyone's in a hurry. Whereas I think down here. We're not you know, we're just tell me. We we consider this a bigger city where I agree with you. I'm jumping around which I do a lot but I get to Friendly. People are interested. It's nice always people Mosey here. It's a moment. There's definitely a Mosey and I kind of got that slowdown is very fascinating because it's I mean

54:23 They grew up or not, but I lived I moved here from Fargo, which is the big city in North Dakota. Generally. People are much more like

54:39 Take your time patient, which I am not. I'm not very patient either.

54:47 Do much more patient than I was before.

54:56 All right. Now I have a child talking to me. I guess it is getting about that time for each other.

55:11 Not your.

55:14 No, but I did enjoy this nice.