Nancy Mukes, Bennieta Stansberry, and Linda Kimbley

00:08 Hello. Hi, this is Linda. Kimbley Linda Mook scampoli. I am currently 60 years old young. Today is Monday October 28th, 2019 in Dallas, Texas. My interview partners are my mom my natural Mom. Nancy mukes in my adopted mother Anita Stansbury.

00:36 Hi, my name is Bonita Stansbury. I'm 72 today's date is Monday October 28th. 2019 location is Dallas, Texas.

00:48 I'm my partner's are my close friend Nancy mukes and my daughter and price Linda kimbley.

01:02 Good morning. My name is Nancy mukes I'm 85 years old.

01:09 Add today's date is Monday, October 28th, 2019, and we are recording this conversation in Dallas, Texas.

01:21 I am with my daughter Linda kimbley and a friend Bonita sainsbury.

01:30 I want to thank both of you for sitting down today. I am I'm excited to capture history and just of knowing more about you and just to have it for records. So that generations to come to have this information. How did you meet friendships when you get when you cultivate friendships that are older if it's harder normally to toe kick close you two have grown incredibly close and I seen this relationship last time. So, how did your meeting and what you eat each other?

02:05 Well, when I move to Texas a few years ago, I had previously expressed a desire to attend an in-depth Bible study group.

02:18 And you arranged that Linda.

02:21 And Bonita and I were in the same class at BSF.

02:28 We're in the same fast and Brenda introduced me to it and then being in that class we found out we go to the same church, and that was six years ago. And the time has been amazing. We really are almost.

02:49 We're together all the time. We are in did more like sisters, right and it was easy Linda. You said you thought it was hard as we got older but this was easy it there wasn't nothing hard about this relationship. We just

03:06 I don't know. What was interesting. Was that going to one Community Church, which is a very large church with Vinny services that we would meet again at church, but we something was going on and you saw me and knocked on the window remember?

03:27 And we went in and then I went in and not from that promise. We're going to the same service every every weekend now and has five services at our church. But once we realize we were there then we started going to the same service every every every service. We went together. Whatever it be this Saturday or Sunday. We did it together because I didn't know where I was and this huge City. I was afraid to drive and still do when was Community one Community was virtually down the highway from me and Saturday evening was good evening because I can get in and get out get Park and get out without all the additional Sunday traffic.

04:25 So you to have a propensity of getting lost of shopping for hours and just having fun every time I talk to you you're doing when you're going somewhere and somebody say turn left and someone starting turn right and a diamond. I'm just meeting my phone just cracking up in the background. It was yesterday. We went to the store and maybe got back to the car accidents is nobody but us who can stay in one store for 3 and 1/2 hours and not bother you at all. And we're not together Renee stuck together. We're moving independently in that store, but we're both comfortable.

05:11 It might be nothing in this looking and browsing while in craps in in a craft store or any place you do you have your own personality and your own thing in if you're stuck together, you don't get anything accomplished. What quality do you admire most about each other?

05:31 Nancy's biblical background I was Catholic for 55 years. So I'm new to non-denominational and Nancy's been that high lifetime. So how base is firmly rooted in in in that area? She's had this personal relationship with God all her life and I'm relatively new and I'm building this personal relationship. The Bible has become very important to me. Also. I mean right now we are in 3 Bible study so that let you know where we over God. So I admire her

06:22 Relationships are not as she has with the name that I'm so unfamiliar with infant always say so that and then

06:32 I could get really hyped and upset and all over the place for a lot of different reasons than she she has that tendency to just call me down.

06:43 And I

06:46 How do you say thank you. Okay, I'm calmer now so we are good for each other.

06:53 Vanitas been here for a while. When we first met. I've needed the storm brought Bonita. And I when we met we lived I live near Preston and knew that area and I didn't know the area where pudendal lift Bonita said. Well you come over here and I'll teach you my area. Tell him you had and I'll come over you teach me your area Uptown around together. And right now she's been too so I had some physical challenges.

07:32 And I would rather take her to her appointments in the hear that she fell.

07:38 And hurt yourself again.

07:40 So that's another reason why we're together. All the time is because house for me since so and we're very close. She could the Bible we live about 10 minutes apart this time.

08:04 Continue

08:07 May I ask you a quick minute? Cuz we hadn't talked about this. What was your China you transition from Katrina here?

08:15 And Mom you transitioned.

08:19 From Ohio. How was it moving at Sachin so far, you know you're older how was that process of moving and getting acclimated to the new world for me? It was really difficult and I wasn't

08:36 5 to 19 is what?

08:40 1014 years that I was 60 or something. I was still working. I was I was vibrant. I was working in New Orleans and coming here.

08:53 With no furniture no clothes.

08:57 It was it was very very difficult. That first year was horrendous. I did all the processing of trying to get a job being certified in Texas, but it was hard. It was it was really hard and then didn't have friends. I was just around Eric and my kids not having a personal friend is deaf. So

09:24 It was good, man.

09:28 I met Nancy and then I had church friends but they were church friends. They didn't go beyond Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday, but after that Sunday friendship and it was good cuz I love my church. I was at Stonebriar for life, but when I went to my community I felt at home, but it was different and it was difficult than it was it was it was hard, but I made it through.

09:56 I did.

09:58 It wasn't as difficult for me and my daughter Lisa Landis twin.

10:06 Bible is very very ill.

10:09 Amaya she wanted to move to Texas. I didn't happen one room had planned to do that a few years ago.

10:18 And I thought we'd be moving right after I retired in 2005.

10:26 But tab

10:28 Her health declined

10:31 And so August 2013. They told me to pass out.

10:41 And my grandson wanted us to leave Ohio Lenny way and because Dayton was a very declining City at that point.

10:50 It was just that packing is no good for anybody.

10:58 I didn't have to pack everything was going so I just had to get in the car and come I I didn't pack a picture. I lost everything. So that's a different thing not experience packing. Thank God. I didn't have to do that. So I guess if you look at it that way if you're going to move this shity 3 outfits and free panties, and that's it. No furniture. No, nothing you had to pack up everything packed up everything and lose a lot.

11:34 In the process a lot of my crafting material to another about that. Anyway, it's it's it's an adventure it was

11:47 How to change the subject for a minute

11:50 Lessons for life for your grandchildren for your great-grandchildren for the generations to come what's been I'd save me and when your greatest over to ignore your greatest lessons and what do you what lessons do you want your them to learn and even ask your children to learn now? I'm as we continue this journey.

12:15 Mother's not really easy.

12:20 But India

12:23 In the overall picture, it wasn't difficult either. It was just not the norm and my mother passed when I was 11 after a three-year.

12:40 Out with it

12:44 Tubercle tuberculosis and she was in a sanitarium for those three years.

12:51 And then there's that that was the beginning of foster parenting and my father came out of the military and he brought us back to Dayton from Mom but Michigan where she had taken us.

13:07 And so it was not it was not it was strain that say

13:15 But a lesson

13:18 I think looking back at the only way I made it through.

13:24 That's because I had a higher power behind me.

13:29 And I knew that my mother had been at church panis. I had a grandfather who was a Benicar and Uncle swerve ministers and I knew that and even being in the church.

13:44 I think the family background.

13:47 Was that what brought me through?

13:51 And I would say

13:54 No, one of the best things you can do for your children is to give them a firm foundation and your Christian Living.

14:06 And Christian Living not just Bible knowledge Christian Living at a very young age started with when they're born on Jesus loves you.

14:18 And keep it going.

14:22 And for me my life with the best life I had was as a child.

14:30 Open to maybe 15 16.

14:35 It was wonderful and then I got pregnant and not by nice guy who verbally disabused me and I attempted suicide and I had two kids when I did that to my mind was so gone. I didn't even think about the love of my children and I love my children, but it was one of the most selfless acts I could but God didn't take me so

15:04 Again, dancing out kind of similar. I didn't even start I was brilliant, but was told I was a dummy.

15:11 Buy a person who wasn't smart, but I believe them but it wasn't until the divorce that I went back to college. So it took me 10 years to graduate and I graduated with a BS. I have two masters.

15:29 So what I would tell my grandchildren.

15:32 Life is a rollercoaster.

15:36 There will be ups and downs and don't get too comfortable when you hide because sooner or later you going to dip.

15:45 Again, is the background of Christ cuz I lost my son at 33.

15:52 And

15:54 I don't know what I would have done without God when I had to bury Eric.

15:59 But

16:00 And helped him understand don't make Idols of anybody. Not even your children. We have a loving guy but he's a jealous God and with you Nancy. I think we got to give him that seat. Cuz even when I'm not here are they away from us? It's that faith that has sustained them so they could be strong. They will do things that may not be they made it back in so I can't believe I was dissed but God doesn't hold it against us and what we need to do is not let people

16:35 And I like this one might hold things against me.

16:40 Because God has forgiven us our sins. So don't get caught and letting people bring you down.

16:48 And then you can say well, you know, it's okay that you feel this way about me, but I know God loves me just as I am I have repented and I'm okay because it don't be such a people person pleaser love people but use you a healthy you get strong.

17:08 And then you're able to love others correctly when you weak.

17:13 And you can't you not loving yourself. You don't do a great job of love and loving others. So learn to love you prioritize you and I'm not saying do it selfishly.

17:27 Until you could be strong and parietal part priority rise yourself. You can't love mama or brothers or siblings.

17:35 And when you fall out with people, it's okay this learn how to end it may not happen the next day, but at some point God will put it on your heart to say that's your sister.

17:48 Get over it and forgive because if we live in hate and revenge is destructive, so it is in my family have kids who don't even talk to their dad.

18:04 That's not a happy place to be and they just need to learn how to forgive and stop holding past things because once you forgive your happy and you are reasons for not staying married to a totally different my husband and Linda's father thought I was very very smart and

18:33 That was not good for him.

18:38 Because I later found out that he felt inferior.

18:43 I bet you know, I needed someone to be reliable.

18:50 And that brought about my

18:53 My I decided that I couldn't stay married to him because it was we were unequally yoked.

19:02 But there was no physical abuse. No nothing.

19:08 It was just that he was that a provider.

19:13 And

19:16 And then Dad needs a really would have needed a good station a person stable.

19:25 Personality who would give them a good background now, they had a good relationship with her father growing up and sometimes when I was going to taking college courses in sight and I did that 2 for 10 years when I had the money I would to school if I didn't have the money. I stayed home.

19:47 While I work full time

19:51 And it's raising these children.

19:56 So that was that was different but and then after I received my

20:04 My BF, and I did graduate.

20:11 Agnes Air Mag.

20:19 So that was an incentive for them and I did not worry about furthering my education because I wanted them to get their education and Lisa have received your Masters and when she was going for her Masters on the weekends.

20:40 She worked the right path and went to Le Michigan such a big chicken on right past campus.

20:51 And

20:55 So she was she got that and Linda started her bastarz, but elected not to finish.

21:03 He was an education to.

21:07 Multicultural education

21:10 I don't regret not finishing it. I just I still am really interested in that topic and anything that I've taught on since or have worked with and businesses or whatever. I've been doing. I've enjoyed interjecting that that was that that narrative in there. Yes. In fact right now when I do but teaching Financial education the company that I work with we have different entities that address Multicultural needs and I am always championing those those those programs and learning more about the different sectors Hispanic in the African American community so we can

22:02 Service them better so that and I hope to to bring Financial Independence and financial compensation and literacy to the community and it's not it wasn't available.

22:20 And since that information and that knowledge is now available to our star responsibility to to educate the upcoming group and our families in the community about that.

22:35 I want to change it and get a little bit lighter subject you to a great traveling buddies. Okay. We went to Washington DC a couple of years ago to visit African Americans than the Smithsonian African American Museum, and that was such a great experience what you talked a little bit about that and then in a week or so, we're we're going on a cruise. Yeah, so

23:02 Miss this institute with his absolutely.

23:08 I want to go back when it it be didn't you need to do spend more time. And what I went away from that the thing that stuck with me and I told the kids, you know the egocentric.

23:24 America

23:26 Is we have to be very guarded with that because it diminishes other people and it was there.

23:35 When I realized the wealth of the United States to make it the place that it is came from cotton and sugar cane.

23:48 And I'm talking about the wealth of America. It is grew in those who feels those two Fields use my parents for parents as slaves to cultivate.

24:05 And to groom the sugarcane to

24:10 It was at the back of all people that did United States wealth flourished. And that was I opening to me and again.

24:22 Christopher Columbus is a child.

24:26 We were told he discovered America and it did menaced Indians who were here. So egocentric strength centricity.

24:39 Meet me just need to recognize.

24:43 What other people have done this truly is a Melting Pot and I I love the Melting Pot of America, but we have to recognize and not hide some of the things that other people have done to make this country what it is today. Cuz it dis we all came here as honestly nobody was born into America. We all filter from another country.

25:09 And we have a tendency to only recognize white Europeans as the basis of the development of this country, but is not true and as we are sitting here when we don't exist anywhere else in this world, except in the United States of America when you say we'd be talking about every American African Americans because we in our backgrounds

25:37 Even though African comes first in our designation that really don't want to see how they don't. They don't never we would never in Africa that we do we didn't come from Africa are relatives or relatives were brought many other people from that continent, but they were brought unwillingly here and then

26:07 We have Caucasian in our back row. We have Native American in her background, and I was speaking with someone and by grandfather.

26:21 One of the islands

26:24 The West Indies and they said you can have friends. You can have anything in your background with a white lady friend that BFF Diane. I see you look just like my grandmother and I can't come up and eat her until she told her.

26:48 Just a bite that and could have been my grandmother at the same here. I lost my mother my grandmother Splat during Katrina, but they look exactly alike. So we are weld up many different people. That's why I hate doesn't make sense. It's because when you're hating yourself when you're hating somebody else you could be hating you a part of you. Can I ask you a do you all like as African-Americans in the United States? Do you remember like the moment that you became fully aware of the systemic racism in the United States? Like how old are you? What were you thinking? I was born in 1934.

27:34 I later found out that my grandfather was an escaped slave enslaved person. I don't like the term slave because slaves do volunteer.

27:49 So do that they are enslaved.

27:56 And then

27:58 I can remember.

28:01 Oh when we lived in Detroit

28:06 And would one weekend. We were taking two bat while which is it recreational spot.

28:14 And I don't remember the accept it was a beach and there was water there but something happened, so when push someone or accidentally and one day I went back to school the next week.

28:31 And at dismissal time we couldn't come out because they were white people white been with guns on the playground ready to shoot little children coming out of school.

28:48 Course, I didn't know it because they ushered us into a lower level at the other building to protect us until all that clear it out.

29:02 Not for me I owe you in that happening. See I was getting property primary school for me. It was I was poaching and I talked about my white grandmother and we went to Lincoln beach in New Orleans with Lincoln Beach and Pontchartrain Beach and before that time my father in Cape and cap suit us.

29:27 But we had everything we needed I didn't realized.

29:31 There was no white folks around me. But we had a great church. We are all movie theater. We had everything we needed my father. We would actually go on Sundays in his boat, but I didn't realize if he went across a certain barrier yet. They would arrest them. But when we went to Lincoln Beach my grandmother cried and daddy said Mama what is wrong and I said daddy she scared and she said what I said because they be mean to her. They want to know why this white lady is at the black Beach.

30:02 And she was frightened and my daddy realize he saw the fear and his mom's face and we left and for me, I was in 9th grade and I begged my parents. I wanted to go to McDonald 35 that was in the African American Community, but it was a brilliant for brilliant people and I was told on the elevator that the niggars stink.

30:29 And I looked at you and I see if what they talkin about. She said you I went home and I was crying I said Daddy. He said that's why I didn't want you at that school.

30:40 I said you can't hide that for me.

30:43 That that was my I started my perspective with my grandmother, but I saw it at 14 or 15 for myself when I realized people thought I was less man.

30:56 Them because of the color of my skin.

31:01 I went to an integrated.

31:05 Elementary School

31:07 And I don't think it was until Martin Luther King got killed that day.

31:12 That I think you were school. I was at Chelsea's house on Chelsea's house and it came on the TV.

31:23 And she was just like oh Lord. No and she just started crying and I'm like, who is this? And that's when I found out who he was but we're not Taffy died and we went to, Kentucky.

31:39 That was the first time I saw black only and white only drinking fountains who's at the truck stop.

31:47 And I was taking a bath.

31:52 But I do after that I don't remember anything specific but that was my first introduction. I think since then the worst thing was when I lived in Louisiana when I lived in Baton Rouge, I went to the office one day and I said to the lady I worked with acid is it my imagination or is the expectation is when somebody of a different color comes towards me. I need to move she says yes, ma'am. That is the expectation. And what year was that with 2002?

32:24 And my husband he he's lived in Dallas and we were commuting for a couple of years. He got off the plane once and I had to stop by the grocery store and he went to the bathroom and he came back out and he says I can't wait until you blank e blank blank blank blank blank blank you blend leave this place.

32:47 Because of the expectation

32:51 I thought it was good that our son Patrick. I was in Middle School got a chance to be in that kind of an environment because he became aware of it.

33:05 But he was aware of it just to know and long enough to know that this can happen and then we got him out of that environment.

33:17 But that was when I first saw the black and white sign I was like, oh my goodness. So y'all didn't grow up with that in the north and it was it all cuz half of half of our mccargar kindergarten class 1st 2nd 3rd grade wear white and half of my black let you know their pockets and there were definitely in Dayton Ohio they were and I remember as a child when they came back to Dayton and Dale had sent me to Kroger's that was on the corner of 3rd Street and Anna.

33:55 3rd and P Street

33:59 And the clerk said is that all you want Susie?

34:07 And I said, my name is. Susie. If you like to know my name you ask me and I will tell you.

34:18 Last thing I want to see on that subject as I was in Costco couple of days ago and you open the freezer during you still in there. You looking at the ingredients on the back of the package and there's some guy sitting behind me and when does little push cart things to do that? Yeah those things on the side of it and I just turned around and looked at him. This is older white guy is his or you're just standing there thought Lord, please help me.

34:46 And I just looked at him and I just turned away. I thought the thing about it is there is something within people who have to put down other people.

34:58 So they can make themselves appear bigger in their eyes side and it's like I'm inferior to myself until I have to subjugate you to make myself bigger or something going on in the minds of people who have to subjugate someone else over my fear and I see a difference guys with intermarriages and all of this stuff and I'm proud of it.

35:29 But my fear is I don't know if y'all remember if there's ever a Civil War I would like to know what's going to happen because they would say if you were 1/8 black you apply.

35:42 So if the same group of people ever decide to have a Civil War what happens to a little mixed children or they would all be on our side but what happens to the parents the white parent would you separate them from their children a better, they better company already but not a racist. That's how we'd be guide enslaved. So if a civil war happens and this European family, then I'll take my daughter but I don't want your children because they're mixed up in an African American and hopefully that will never happen in our life, but it's because I know what could happen. I know the division of race. I just wonder if that possibility would happen again. I don't know I would pray that you never does but we were separated it was whites on this side in fact, and we always got the inferior part of everything.

36:42 Turn on the news today. I just say a prayer because it's the world is in turmoil and it seems like it's becoming more divisive. So how would you like us to remember you?

36:53 Cuz one of the reasons I wanted to do this is because when somebody dies we lose their voice, you know, when Lisa died. It's like I don't have anything with my sister's voice on it and then we don't have the answering machines anymore. We need to make a video tape or something like that. But this way your great-grandchildren can hear your voice and hear your opinion. What do you think what you want them the most remember about you and your hope for their life you've about a minute and you can you can whatever it is. You can do not think less you got that don't make any Jack and the skin is only a cup ring.

37:37 Don't worry about that. Be proud be be happy God happy with his handiwork you be happy with what he did and I agree with that. I would want them to know that the world.

37:51 Is there as they could be whatever they want to be it MSN is easy and some of the things you will have to work hard at. I'm not going to be easy but it's possible the possibilities are there and be proud of kinky quartet be proud of who we are because the reality we are all how heartbeat the same we plead the same. We are eternally made the same, so don't let

38:21 Bad people but bad thoughts in your head and love everybody as you love yourself. I've got six granddaughters and grandson and my thought is be true to yourself know who you are create the life you want before you allow your life to be directed by somebody else negativism is no good for anyone board for the my little girls.

38:51 Create the world you want without and you don't have to have somebody in your life.

38:58 Just be yourself. Be happy who you are and be brave and my grandson. Oh my goodness, and I just grew up to be a good guy or good guy be kind Be Love.