Nataliya Povod, Diana Abramenko, and Mary Connin

[00:00] NATALIYA POVOD: Okay.

[00:04] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Hey. My name is Nataliya Povod, and I'm 23. Today is May 10, 2023. I am in Logan, Utah, and I'm here with Diana and Mary. They're my besties friends.

[00:23] NATALIYA POVOD: My name is Diana. I'm 22 years old. Today is May 10, 2023, Logan, Utah, and I'm here with Nataliya and Mary. It's my partners, and my name is Mary Connin I'm 70. Today's date is May 10, 2023. I live in Logan. We are in Logan, Utah. I'm here with Nataliya and Diana, and they are my very good friends. Okay, so, girls, I want you to each introduce yourselves. Nataliya

[01:06] DIANA ABRAMENKO: So my name is Nataliya and I was born, and most of the time I lived in Ukraine. And how old are you? I'm 23.

[01:18] NATALIYA POVOD: Hi, Diana. My name is Diana. I'm 22 years old. I'm from Ukraine, and I also was born in Pavlograd. Pavlograd?

[01:28] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, actually, yeah, we are from the same city.

[01:32] NATALIYA POVOD: Okay, so describe your childhood. What was it like growing up in Pavlograd? My childhood, like the majority of ukrainian children, childhood was fun, but I think pretty bad because after the Soviet Union, it was hard time to live. A lot of people was poor, and I even didn't see a lot of my parents because they were working a lot. So I took care of my younger brother, but if you can see, he's still alive. So I did a great job.

[02:20] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[02:21] NATALIYA POVOD: And how about you, Nataliya

[02:26] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Oh, it was pretty the same, because we are from the same city, but, you know, it was getting better. I was raising a really poor family at those times, but because they lost everything when the Soviet Union just ended. But my mom did everything for me, so I can race normally, learn a lot of stuff, but, you know, the country started changing, so everything started rebuilding. Old people who loved Soviet Union just started disappearing, and everything started to be much better. So I loved it.

[03:09] NATALIYA POVOD: It sounds lovely.

[03:10] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. And when I turned about 16, I felt that that country, it's not the same anymore. Yeah.

[03:19] NATALIYA POVOD: How is it not the same?

[03:22] DIANA ABRAMENKO: People changed. Mentality changed government changed. Salaries changed, buildings changed. Education, so everything. And it started to be really nice.

[03:37] NATALIYA POVOD: So when did you two meet? Describe how you met. We met each other in the dance classes. In the polygraph?

[03:48] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[03:48] NATALIYA POVOD: What kind of dance?

[03:50] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Contemporary. So all types of classes. We were like, 1415. We were trying everything.

[03:57] NATALIYA POVOD: All the modern dances.

[03:59] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes. So we were about 15 years old, something like this.

[04:04] NATALIYA POVOD: And you've been best friends ever since? And we know each other more than seven years? Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[04:12] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Crazy.

[04:13] NATALIYA POVOD: So did you go describe your schooling in Pavlograd in Ukraine? Did you go to the same school? No.

[04:21] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, we were living in different neighborhoods, so I had different school and smaller one. It was nice, you know, it was like family. This school was different from hers, so it was small one with just one grade by each. So it was interesting and I loved it because teachers were so close to us. To me.

[04:47] NATALIYA POVOD: That's nice.

[04:48] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Actually, this is like last two, three grades were my favorites.

[04:53] NATALIYA POVOD: So you both graduated. What would is high school here? And then what did you do? Did you go to Egypt? Did you just tell me so first?

[05:05] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, I told you about this, but before that I was, I started studying in a university in Dnipro city, but I quitted just in one and a half years because I was bad public speaker. I was afraid to do it and I was studying like politology. Were you supposed to talk in public? And that's why I listened. No, it's not the right time. Yeah. And then Diana graduated and I like, hey, let's go for a vacation to the Egypt. Just for vacation. Just for vacation. And what happened?

[05:44] NATALIYA POVOD: So we are so active girls and we was performed in all the activities there and some of the animations team workers, they noticed us and told, hey guys, you need to go to work with us.

[06:01] DIANA ABRAMENKO: We are offering for you the job. It sounds so fun, you know, because it's like Egypt Palms December. It's so super warm. It's super nice. It's like dream job, you know.

[06:15] NATALIYA POVOD: And was it, it sounds like. No, it was terrible.

[06:20] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Half a year experience.

[06:22] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh dear, what happened? The small salary, a lot of lies.

[06:28] DIANA ABRAMENKO: You know, it was like 13 hours per day working and $11 per day. Oh, that's not much. Not enough for anything.

[06:42] NATALIYA POVOD: Our work started like at eight and we finished at 03:00 a.m. three, five.

[06:47] DIANA ABRAMENKO: With a few breaks during the day. So it was pretty hard. Yeah, but we got so great experience and I loved it.

[06:57] NATALIYA POVOD: That's good. So that's a good way to look at it.

[07:01] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[07:01] NATALIYA POVOD: So how did you decide to go to business school or in Czech Republic? Isn't that what you did there?

[07:06] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, it was last year 2000. So Egypt was in 2019. And we just decided because we love traveling and we are loved studying. So everything. What about studying? Studying somewhere not at home. So yes, we are in.

[07:23] NATALIYA POVOD: Where did you learn English? I have such good English. Both of you?

[07:27] DIANA ABRAMENKO: In Ukraine.

[07:28] NATALIYA POVOD: In Ukraine, in school?

[07:30] DIANA ABRAMENKO: No, actually at schools in Ukraine. English is not so good. So you have to have a tutor or something.

[07:37] NATALIYA POVOD: So my first tutor. Oh, well, there you go. Well, I should backtrack a little bit. What did you do between Egypt and Czech Republic?

[07:51] DIANA ABRAMENKO: So I was working a lot. I was a makeup artist, an english tutor. Yeah. And some other stuff. So I had it and building my own life. So just got a house, got a car, so just like normal people do.

[08:11] NATALIYA POVOD: And I just like to study business because I would like to open in the future some of the businesses. And so because of this, we decided to go to the Czech Republic. It was the business academy. So. So was it in Prague?

[08:27] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was close to the.

[08:28] NATALIYA POVOD: Close to Prague. And was that fun? How long were you there?

[08:32] DIANA ABRAMENKO: We went there just for three months. It was. It started on January last year, 2022. And we just packed some clothes, laptops, because we were living on campus. We're supposed to live on campus. So we just took some necessary stuff and came there for three months, nothing else.

[08:55] NATALIYA POVOD: And then what happened? Then the war. I started to learn everything about business. I even found some people who can be, like, a sponsor for me. And I wanted to open, like, Sephora in Ukraine. Sephora, like, all makeup stuff. But the war has started, and everything changed. Everything changed. How did you feel when you heard about that?

[09:19] DIANA ABRAMENKO: So it was just early morning. We had a trip from Czech Republic, public to Germany for a day. And we just went downstairs to the common room. And everybody was so active, so their faces were so I didn't understand, like, what's going on? And I just came up to one ukrainian girls, because, like, everybody were international in there. And she's like, hey, what's going on? And she's like, you didn't hear? The war has started in our country. And it just was so terrible.

[10:04] NATALIYA POVOD: Do you have family members in Kyiv or in any of the war zones? Yeah, my mother is still in Ukraine.

[10:14] DIANA ABRAMENKO: So Pavlohrad is the east part of Ukraine, so it is closest part to the border, which is to occupy it. Yes. My grandma and aunt also lived there, and my sister was kids, so. Yeah.

[10:33] NATALIYA POVOD: And are you in touch with them at all?

[10:36] DIANA ABRAMENKO: With my sister, yes. She's keeping me in touch with my grandma. But our city was bombed just few days ago. Yeah, it was terrible. I was so afraid. I was calling everybody in the middle of the night to just know. And they were, like, somebody were, like, on the ground to be safe, like, and I couldn't read them out, so it was so terrible.

[11:01] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh, I'm sorry. I think more than one week, I couldn't believe that it's true that the war has started. So it was hard. Yeah, I remember how I got the announcement that my flight was cancelled.

[11:18] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. Back to Ukraine, you know, like, it's.

[11:21] NATALIYA POVOD: Really true, the war. So what. What went into your decision about to. To leave Czech Republic? So this academy, they started to be, like, volunteers, and a lot of refugee ukrainian refugees came to this academy, like.

[11:40] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Families with kids and so on. And this academy at the campus is not so huge. It's like up to hundred people, I think. I'm not sure, but like this.

[11:48] NATALIYA POVOD: And we decided that, like, we are young girls, so we can do whatever we want in our life. And this space in the academy, it will be better for some families with kids. So it was the first reason why we decided to go also.

[12:05] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was like a really stressful situation. So I couldn't just sit on one spot and waiting for something. I just wanted to move, to run, to do something, because I can't.

[12:17] NATALIYA POVOD: So what was your first plan?

[12:20] DIANA ABRAMENKO: First plan was go to the Norway.

[12:22] NATALIYA POVOD: Go to Norway.

[12:24] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. It was my dream, first of all. Like, okay, let's do something. And we just try to find all the information we need. It, like, too long process. All immigration process is too long. Everybody know it. And then we just decided, let's apply for canadian visa. And we did it, and we almost got it. But my mom, she lives in Logan Utah she called her. Yeah. And she's like, no, I can't. I didn't see you for a few years and the war has started. I want you to come closer, like, at least for a while. And I was like, okay, let's think. There is no programs for Ukrainians in us at that moment.

[13:11] NATALIYA POVOD: Yeah, we didn't find any information in the official website. The government website.

[13:17] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. So. And some lawyers attorney started, like, posting that, like, ukrainian people are allowed to go through the mexican border and they are getting humanitarian parole from the officer. So it's, like, not illegal stuff. It's normal stuff. But we couldn't find any information on official websites. So, like, is it illegal or illegal? I can't understand. And, like, let's try. We will find out.

[13:47] NATALIYA POVOD: We took a risk.

[13:48] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. So just in a few days, we got tickets to Mexico.

[13:54] NATALIYA POVOD: So describe your trip, where you went from.

[13:57] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was too long.

[14:00] NATALIYA POVOD: So we had a flight from Prague, Czech Republic, to the Madrid. From Madrid to the Guadalajara From Guadalajara to Tijuana. Tijuana, yeah. And then what was Tijuana like? I mean, you got off a plane and.

[14:18] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, we didn't know what to do. And just, we went to this airport. We got inside, and we see, like, hundreds of volunteers, hundreds of people. They register you for crossing the border, so you need to have a number to cross it. So, yeah, this is in the airport? Yes, in the airport.

[14:44] NATALIYA POVOD: And they took us from the airport to the shelter. Shelter.

[14:48] DIANA ABRAMENKO: They got a shelter. It's just so close to the border, but in so dangerous neighborhood. I was so scared to go out, it actually was impossible.

[15:01] NATALIYA POVOD: Yeah. So a lot of men with guns walking around, like, oh, no.

[15:05] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Like, not police.

[15:07] NATALIYA POVOD: I would think it's a go to some store or just walk around to see the nature or something. Like, oh, man was. God, no, no, I will stay here. I will stay inside. Oh, you must have been terrified.

[15:19] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. So.

[15:20] NATALIYA POVOD: So we was. We were there on the shelter more than three. Three days, three nights. Yeah, three nights. And Jess was waiting for our number. So you had your number?

[15:33] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, and we were just waiting, looking on the dashboard. So, yeah, so checking.

[15:38] NATALIYA POVOD: We're really grateful for our volunteers. They helped us with food and clothing, all this stuff.

[15:44] DIANA ABRAMENKO: These volunteers were from the Mexico, some of them. So just usual Mexicans. Other people came from us who were born in Ukraine, or they are american, but no, some Ukrainians just want to help. So there were a lot of people, and they were doing everything. They were bringing a lot of food, like, wow. And everybody was cooking all the time from these volunteers because, like, people were coming and going, coming and going, and, like, huge amount of people.

[16:15] NATALIYA POVOD: So you were just with ukrainian people? Were you with any of the other?

[16:20] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Its shelter was just, like, for Ukraine.

[16:23] NATALIYA POVOD: So everyone spoke your language. Diana, did you tell me you got sick? Yes, almost all the time. We slept outside. So intense. It's tense. And maybe because in the daytime it was warm. In the nighttime, it was cold. I got sick because of it. It was hard, but it's okay. Oh, my goodness. What a thing. So then what happened? The immigration. Your number came up. Then what happened?

[16:54] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, and we were scared because, like, all the time, nobody knew how long would they accept people to go through the border? And every day we were so nervous, like, okay, they give new numbers. New numbers. And actually, I will just tell ahead that just two days after we crossed the border, they cancel it for a while. And I was like, wow. Thank you.

[17:22] NATALIYA POVOD: Wow.

[17:23] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, it was just in a few days, and we just were so scared. We holding our passport bags, not so much, but something. And we just were standing next to the office. In the border, there is a room. It's not just a fence. Yeah. And where they are, we're asking some questions and just give, like, make some stamps into the passport. Yes. Kind of visa, but like, it's humanitarian. Pro.

[17:57] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh, right. So you probably were a good translator then for some of your fellow Ukrainians who were. Yes, we helped them. Yeah. So sometimes we even didn't slept all night and we helped. Oh, that was, that was good. Oh, my. So you crossed the border then what? Oh, what? Did you just walk?

[18:22] DIANA ABRAMENKO: We just walked out of this building. And here we go. It's San Diego.

[18:27] NATALIYA POVOD: And, you know, Nataliya was the first one, one who she entered the United States. I was still in Mexico, and I was near the officer, like, I'm so nervous. I want to see my friend when I will see my friend. So, yeah, finally we are here. Oh, good. And what was it like on the other side? Was everyone still nice?

[18:52] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Just in 10ft from this door, from this building, there were again tents, food and volunteers. Yeah, it was so fun. At that moment. We were like, okay, we are finally here. Everything is getting better. Okay, we are not staying in Mexico or we are not going back to Europe because our visa expired when we left the Europe, so we are not able to get back. Yeah, so risky.

[19:24] NATALIYA POVOD: The volunteers were like angels when I saw them. Oh, my angels. They probably gave you medicine to make you give you some of the special candies for throat.

[19:42] DIANA ABRAMENKO: And at that moment, we just sit, we were drinking something and just like, so what we would do next? We are in San Diego, but we have to get to Logan, Utah. And we started checking their wi fi, especially for Ukrainians. And we were checking tickets to Salt Lake City airport, and there were $200 each. And we had just 150 for both of us in the pockets. And we're like, mm hmm.

[20:14] NATALIYA POVOD: So airplane? No.

[20:16] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. But we didn't know how.

[20:19] NATALIYA POVOD: We were thinking what to do, how to earn money or something.

[20:21] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah, yeah, I. And we didn't know where to stay because it was like mid of the day, it was like 04:00 p.m. and one man came up to us like, hey, do you need, like, housing for one, two nights? Like, yes.

[20:36] NATALIYA POVOD: And they're like, yes.

[20:36] DIANA ABRAMENKO: And then, okay, now I'm afraid, you know, we don't know this man. Let's think first. So we came up to organizers and they told, yes, he's fine, he's fine. Yeah. And so we stayed in the branch. He was like, how is called?

[21:01] NATALIYA POVOD: I don't remember the name of, like.

[21:03] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Bishop of one church. I don't remember of the church, the.

[21:06] NATALIYA POVOD: Name of the church.

[21:08] DIANA ABRAMENKO: And we stayed actually in this branch in the church. And there were some other people, like other refugees there were kitchen, everything they brought to. How did it go? Truck. Truck with shover. With hot water.

[21:23] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh, with hot water.

[21:24] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[21:25] NATALIYA POVOD: After three days in a camp, I bet you. Yeah, unfortunately in those shelter it was cold water, just. Oh, so hot water was a great thing.

[21:35] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Perfect.

[21:36] NATALIYA POVOD: That's good. So, well, how did you. What happened then? How did you get out of San Diego?

[21:44] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It's really amazing because mom's friend, she also picked up her son from the border and she. Yes, not Sandy and good. He crossed the border early, so. Yeah, but they could pick us up at that moment and they went to Wyoming through the arbor, Logan Canyon. So it was just like few blocks away from mom's home. It was amazing.

[22:13] NATALIYA POVOD: So out of the blue you got a ride from a friend of your mother's who was going to Wyoming and went through Logan Canyon. Oh, that is a miracle, isn't it?

[22:24] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes, it's just a miracle.

[22:25] NATALIYA POVOD: Don't remember like our road, our way, because I was sick and I just slept all the time.

[22:35] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Remember it? Yeah, but I remember everything. It was so nice. I had. I had some suntan in California and I saw Arizona. It's so beautiful. Beautiful. And then through Nevada, it also nice. But when we entered to Utah, I saw snow and like. No, no. And when we got to Norse Utah, it was like ten inch snow and like. No, it was too good. It was super good.

[23:07] NATALIYA POVOD: Let's go to the San Diego again.

[23:09] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah.

[23:11] NATALIYA POVOD: But you finally made it to meet up with your mother. That's good. And then did you move in with her?

[23:17] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[23:18] NATALIYA POVOD: And that's good. And that's when you came to my office, I think. Yeah, that was nice for me. So how do you like Logan? From Czech Republic? From Pavlograd, from Egypt. How do you like Logan? How do you like life and Logan? So I like the nature here, the mountains, a lot of things.

[23:43] DIANA ABRAMENKO: First three months, we actually don't remember our life.

[23:49] NATALIYA POVOD: Maybe we had some kind of stress, I think.

[23:53] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Because I don't remember nothing till July, I think.

[23:58] NATALIYA POVOD: Yeah. Because when after those months we came outside, like for walk. For a walk and like, oh, it's nature here. Interesting place.

[24:07] DIANA ABRAMENKO: We live there next to the mountainous.

[24:09] NATALIYA POVOD: You are right next to the mountains.

[24:10] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[24:11] NATALIYA POVOD: Yeah, because we didn't like go outside.

[24:16] DIANA ABRAMENKO: We are staying inside just all the time.

[24:18] NATALIYA POVOD: Must have been stress, maybe. Yeah, but then. So what are you doing? I know you're working and you have. You're in school. Tell me about that.

[24:29] DIANA ABRAMENKO: So we were waking up. We were waiting for our work permits for almost a year. It was so difficult. We didn't imagine that it will take so long, but, yeah, now we got it. And finally, oh, we are moving from that place thanks to these people who helped us.

[24:50] NATALIYA POVOD: Yeah, it was hard to live one year without any papers because you feel like you are nothing. You can do anything, work, even if you want to get, like, a driver license, you need to have a Social Security. But what kind of things did you do for fun? I know you told me you wanted to ski. Did you ever get to ski?

[25:12] DIANA ABRAMENKO: No, not yet, because we didn't have driver's license before Utah Yeah, but we were, we went to the lakes. We were driving bikes, riding bikes. Riding horses. Yeah. It's so awesome.

[25:28] NATALIYA POVOD: There's a lot of canyons here.

[25:30] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes. We were swimming, a lot of picnics.

[25:34] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh, that's good. Oh, we found a good friend here. Good.

[25:40] DIANA ABRAMENKO: You too. You counted well.

[25:43] NATALIYA POVOD: And did you take a couple of trips in the United States? Yes, we've already been in New York and Los Angeles, California. Unbelievable. How did you like New York City? It was your birthday, right, Diana? Yes. Oh, I like New York so much.

[26:01] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It's so amazing. You know, I love, I fall in love with this city because it reminds me, Europe. I don't feel I am in America or united. No, I'm in Europe somewhere else. It's super good.

[26:15] NATALIYA POVOD: That's great. And you went to museums.

[26:18] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Oh, yeah. It's amazing.

[26:20] NATALIYA POVOD: And you, and where did you stay?

[26:22] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Oh, we used Airbnb. Yeah. And also in Los Angeles. I also loved Los Angeles, especially during the January.

[26:35] NATALIYA POVOD: Oh, right.

[26:35] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes.

[26:36] NATALIYA POVOD: Where every. I saw a picture. You went in the water?

[26:40] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes, I did. It was cold, but I did.

[26:43] NATALIYA POVOD: Everybody else is wearing a parka. Nataliya is her bare feet in the water. We also visited Las Vegas.

[26:51] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Oh, yeah. I forget about.

[26:52] NATALIYA POVOD: You did.

[26:53] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was just, we had a stop there. We had like 10 hours. So we, like, we won't sit in the airport. Let's go out. And we just did it.

[27:06] NATALIYA POVOD: That's great, you guys. I mean, you're very adventurous for the situation you're in. I'm really, really admiring. So what are you. Tell me your plans. What are your plans for the future? So at the end of this month, we will move to New York.

[27:26] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Nice plan.

[27:27] NATALIYA POVOD: That's a good plan.

[27:28] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was nice advertisement to New York City.

[27:31] NATALIYA POVOD: And do you feel like you'll ever get back to Ukraine? Yes, of course. Yeah. We love Ukraine so much, and we want to go there. But even if the war will finish, we don't think that we will go there, right? Like now, because everything is bumped. Ukraine needed time.

[27:52] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yes. Economy is bad right now, so it needs time.

[27:57] NATALIYA POVOD: I would like to stay in the United States as much as possible, but if. No, we will go to Europe, I think. Do you have plans for your careers? Yeah, I would like to open a business, I think. Yeah. Don't know what kind of business.

[28:15] DIANA ABRAMENKO: What kind?

[28:16] NATALIYA POVOD: So, like my dream, it's to open a manufactory of cars. I want to create my cars, my brand. But it's a lot, a lot of investments, so I do not doubt, but we'll make it happen. I was thinking to open in New York some store with a print, like print shop. And I do print for t shirts, bags to start with something smaller.

[28:39] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Yeah. And I will do make designs for this.

[28:42] NATALIYA POVOD: Yes, yes.

[28:43] DIANA ABRAMENKO: T shirts. I don't know about cars, but for t shirts I can do.

[28:47] NATALIYA POVOD: She is incredible graphic designer.

[28:50] DIANA ABRAMENKO: Oh, thanks.

[28:52] NATALIYA POVOD: I know you both are. I just see success for both of you. I really do. You're really adventurous and brave, willing to do anything. So big finish for us. Diane, you're a singer. I understand you have won competitions, so you have a beautiful voice. I wonder if you can sing a little piece of Ukraine for us? A little song from Ukraine? Yes, of course. I can start. Okay. Anytime. Do my bracha. Kozach, slavo crani. Thank you both.

[29:53] DIANA ABRAMENKO: You're welcome.

[29:54] NATALIYA POVOD: Thank you.

[29:54] DIANA ABRAMENKO: It was nice.