Nicole Cobb and Sister Helen Santamaria

[00:01] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Hi, I'm sister Helen Santa Maria. I'm 79 years old. Today's date is February 6, 2023. We're located in El Paso, Texas. My partner in interviewing is Nicole Cobb She's a colleague of mine and a very dear friend.

[00:27] NICOLE COBB: My name is Nicole Cobb. I'm 39 years old. Today's date is February 6, 2023. We are in El Paso, Texas, and today I'm interviewing Sister Helen Santa Maria. She is a colleague, a mentor, a friend, and also my spiritual director. So, Sister Helen, can you tell me a little bit about your time at Loretto Academy as president? What stands out to you when you reflect on your tenure?

[01:11] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: They were very happy years. I was only president four years, so I started with the freshmen and graduated with them. I had been there about a year and a half before our president, our current president at that time, retired, and I became president after that. I am a graduate of Loretto Academy 61 years ago, and it's me, Loretto Academy, and all of the memories that I have and the wonderful educators that were available at that time, even to this very day, produced miracles. Loretto Academy, you know, is a private girl, private catholic school, which educates children from preschool all the way through the 12th grade. From the first to the fifth grade, we have boys and girls, but from the middle school through the high school, it's a women's program, and we're very proud of our heritage. We are celebrating our centennial year, as you know. And I'm thrilled that you are a president at this time. I was always proud to represent Loretto Academy and feel that's what I do today as well. I think it's very important to be available to the public. That's where you do your recruiting. And so I was very involved in chamber of commerce, Rotary, the diocesan boards of directors. And that's a good way just to let the community know we're here and we're here to serve.

[03:12] NICOLE COBB: Sister, how old were you when you started going to school at Loretto?

[03:17] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: I went for high school, so I was a freshman.

[03:23] NICOLE COBB: And when you look back on that experience, do you think Loretto has changed?

[03:29] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Oh, absolutely. Yes. It was a lot stricter with discipline, and I was one of the leaders, so that we were. This is what I loved about Loretto. I realized it later when I was a principal of our school in St. Louis. I realized what I was trying to accomplish at St. Louis was what I had experienced as a student at Loretto Academy. We felt as students at Loretto Academy that we were in charge. The sisters were incredible. They were strong women, but they had a way of enabling us to exercise leadership. And, you know, it's amazing. So often teachers don't understand that's what we're there for, to bring out the true leadership and talents that students have. The school that I had, that I had the privilege of serving as the principal was very, very exciting. It was just a private girls catholic high school. When I came home to Loretto, it expanded from pre k to high school, and that was wonderful. Wonderful to really have, to minister to all levels, to really be involved in the parental life and to work within the community as well. And just to know that we have, this is our legacy, and we just hope that it would continue, and it certainly has.

[05:19] NICOLE COBB: And when you were president of Loretto, well, you've told me that you really focused on leadership. Can you talk about why that was so important to you and what you did as president, to focus on leadership?

[05:33] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Yes. My motto was building, working. No, my model was Loretto Academy is a private catholic school to help build leaders. And my focus very often was on the leadership, on the students that were in student council. And I started that when I was a principal in St. Louis. We actually had two forms. We had the leadership conference, and then we had the activities. There were two, and I was responsible for the leadership, the student council, and the other teacher was responsible for all the activities in the school. So when I came to Loretto I didn't take the leadership, but I recruited students to recruit with me. And I in St. Louis, it's a really important thing to recruit students because there were many, many private schools for girls, eight or nine, and we're the practically only one here in El Paso. So it was very important to me to get the students out to do the recruiting, to tell their story, because that's what I would say. I wanted students watching them and listening to them. And we went to all the schools thinking, I want to be like that. I want to be like that girl, is that they're able to articulate that they're proud of their school. And so I think that's very important. One thing that I realized when I came home to El Paso, it had changed a lot. I was gone at least 28 years, and I was amazed at all the Spanish that was spoken. It wasn't that strong when I was student here. And so I thought, if we're building a program to develop committed christian women leaders, they need to speak both languages. Now, we've always had many students from Mexico because the school was built, mother Praxites was really begged by many families in Mexico to build a boarding school, and that's what happened. So we've always had students from both countries, and it's been very high priority that we would maintain that. And so students came to our school to learn English, but we weren't so focused on having english speaking students learn Spanish. And I felt we needed to start at the beginning, the lowest part, and by the time they got to high school, they should be able to take another language because Americans aren't too fluent in very many languages.

[08:48] NICOLE COBB: We had an open house for recruitment a few weekends ago, and I don't know if I told you this story, but I'm just thinking about it as you're sharing leadership and having our own students do the recruiting. And we had this open house where students were going to give a presentation to a roomful of potential families, and we were running a little bit behind. We were waiting for another family to come in before starting. So I was outside of the room, and so were the other adults, and we were just talking. And it was funny because we walked into the room, and I guess the girls had looked at the clock and said, oh, it's time to start. And so they just started and ran the show without any adults in the room, which was so awesome because it is, you know, the school is about creating, fostering that leadership. And so they ran the show, and they did the recruitment.

[09:45] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Absolutely. They can present the school, and I don't think we should be afraid of letting the students speak, because they speak truth.

[09:59] NICOLE COBB: Oh, they do. They also gave some tours and gave some funny information about the school. I don't know if you heard, but one student told the families, well, the Loretto sisters don't wear habits, but they now have a new uniform, and that is khakis. Khaki pants. So the student thought that those were.

[10:28] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: That.

[10:28] NICOLE COBB: That was the official new uniform of the Sisters of Loretto.

[10:33] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Well, that's interesting.

[10:36] NICOLE COBB: Yeah.

[10:39] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: They always would have stories about. Well, different things about, because the sisters live right there. We did. In the past, all the sisters that taught in El Paso lived at the academy. And so. So there were always stories about a sister when she died, that her ghost was there, you know, and when they had overnights, every year, some of the classes would have overnights, and there would be always these stories, or they hear, you know, and I work in the chapel, and the chapel cracks and creaks and the windows, and I sometimes go back out in the. And see, make sure there isn't somebody there. Because it sounds very much like people walking on the floor.

[11:27] NICOLE COBB: Yes. That's actually one of the questions I get asked most, sister, is, are there ghosts? I guess everyone is wondering if the school is haunted since it's been around for so, for so long.

[11:42] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: I can't negate it. I've never seen one. I think maybe I've heard a couple of, but I don't know. It was the residence for the sisters from the time that the school opened 100 years ago, and it's only been about ten or twelve years that the convent was closed and is now being prepared to become the rest of Loretto Academy. But I would welcome them. I would welcome them. I do believe. I know I've heard tremendous stories of hospice workers when they are with people who are ready to go to God, that they do see angels or their deceased friends or parents or whatever. So I do believe that that is possible. And, you know, we are the Loretto angels, so I think they're fluttering around all the time and bring us great comfort, consolation, and help us to have a very happy environment.

[12:55] NICOLE COBB: Well, then that's good. So if they're there, they're the friendly, helpful type.

[13:03] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Have you not seen a Loretto Saint Angela?

[13:09] NICOLE COBB: I haven't seen anything, but I do hear a lot of noises, too. How did you get involved in spiritual direction?

[13:25] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Well, it started without my knowing it. I've told this story before. When I left Loretto Academy, I wasn't sure what the future would bring, and so I had the opportunity to go through some therapy, and I just remember thinking, because, you know, one of the biggest points of being the president is raising money because it's a great responsibility. And I just remember thinking, because I was discerning if I should return to Loretto after that time period. I really don't want to talk to people about money. I'd much rather talk to them about getting to heaven. Well, I had no idea at that time that there was, like, a little hint from the Lord. But I did discern not to return to Loretto as president. I returned and was called by the diocese to help because the bishop had been sent to another diocese, and I had been on several boards of the diocese. And so the administrator at that time asked me to go and help. And so I did that for seven years, and it was wonderful. I had no responsibility. I didn't have to raise money. And when we set up my responsibilities, I was able to do more people, people contacting the directors of ministries, and it was wonderful. I did have one year after I left the diocese that I was an assistant chaplain at the processing center, and there were, like, 500 detainees detained there to return to their countries because they had entered the United States illegally. So I was one of the chaplains, and it was a beautiful ministry, beautiful ministry. It was there because they would come to me in a separate room. The officers would bring them to me, and they would spend a half an hour with me, these detainees, and they would be. I had to speak in Spanish. Most of them were from Central America, and I was a spanish teacher, so it was easy. But I'm not a native speaker. And they would. When I would finish with them, we had a little half an hour period. They would get on their knees and kiss my hand and just be so grateful. And I thought, what did I say? And I know that was the Holy Spirit just using me to comfort them because they were going to go home to families who were going to be disappointed because they didn't make it to the United States, you know? And I had to kind of help them know this was part of God's plan for them. One time, they called me to a barrack because a mother was screaming. She had just talked to her mother, and she had a brand new baby. She left. So I had to minister to her to say, that's where God wants you. So those are just little signs. And I was, you know, I had the opportunity to establish, with a lot of help, the shelter for women experiencing homelessness in the barrio here. And there was many opportunities to be able to help women that came because of tragic lives, to help them reestablish their lives and get reunited with the families. So it was during that time that I spent ten years in that position. But I realized that God was calling me to spiritual direction. And so I am a graduate certified spiritual director, and I'm delighted that you call on me, Nicole, to minister to people that you see, just need somebody to listen to them who might be struggling with their spiritual life or impacting their lives. I feel it's a privilege, you know, and I love being the sacristan, to be present and prepare the chapel for the children's masses or for any of the masses that relate to the school. That's a real privilege for me. So I feel like I'm died and gone to heaven.

[18:21] NICOLE COBB: Well, we feel so blessed that you're. You're right there. You're on the same block.

[18:26] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Yes.

[18:26] NICOLE COBB: Yes, I know. For me personally, you've been a godsend and just helping me get through this year, this first year as president and it's been a transition, and, you know, there are difficult moments, and you have a lot of wisdom to share. And I love the story that you shared with me about, I believe you were principal in St. Louis and the gym caught on fire. Was it right?

[18:57] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: That's right. You're absolutely correct. We were getting ready for a musical, and when I came home that night, because I was the producer, that was my job. And I had gone to purchase some things that were needed. And it was like 11:00 when I got back to the convent, and I could see all the lights on in the gym, and I thought, oh, it's too late if I go in there. So I went to the convent. I knew people were in the gym working on the sets and all that. And at about 01:00 in the morning, they knocked on my door and said, sister Helen, the gym is on fire. And the fire chief wants us to evacuate the convent because the cinders are falling on the convent. So I went out, and the gym was on fire. There were waters from the back and the front and everything. And they were interviewing me, asking, she said, you know, you're preparing a play, isn't that right? And I said, yes. Are you going to open? We were supposed to open that next weekend. And I said, well, we've been practicing for months. I'm sure we will. And you could see the flames going out. But the marvelous thing. The marvelous thing. We got a call from Webster College, Webster University, right up the street from our school there. They said, send your parents up. We'll help you make in our theater all of the props, all of the furniture and everything that you need for your play. And then Washington University called me and said, all your backdrops, then your art students will help them redo these, all the backdrops. And then just. McDonald's sent coffee. It was just, oh, and then the principal up the street of the public high school called me and said, sister, nothing going on in our little theater. You're welcome to have your production up here at our school in Webster High School. So we opened Thursday with a champagne dinner, and then we had the production Friday and Saturday and Sunday, and we were doing Cinderella. And we were successful because of the community where we were.

[21:27] NICOLE COBB: I just love that story. And then you showed me the picture. I guess it was from a newspaper, and it's a picture of you, and there's flames in the background, as you described. And just, I think about that image sometimes when, you know, things are getting difficult at the school. And I think, man, I don't really know how this is all going to work out. And then I just remember you with a building on fire in back of you saying, it's okay. The show will go on, and we'll find a way. And at the end of the day, it's community that comes around you. And, you know, we talked about Loretto and whether it's haunted, and, you know, came to the conclusion that, you know, whether or not it is, there are a lot of angels. And I've definitely felt that my first year that through every difficult experience, there have been people who come and say, how can I help? Or I have this expertise or I have this background. It's just. It really is amazing. And that's what I guess we're going on 100 years. I don't know. Is that what's kept Loretto going for so long?

[22:35] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Well, and you've been a part of it longer than this time. Did you ever think when you were a student there that you were going to end up being the president?

[22:45] NICOLE COBB: Definitely not. A lot of students ask me that. I did nothing, and I tell them I actually. My goal was to get as far away from El Paso as possible, as horrible as that sounds. But I was born and raised in El Paso, and I was ready. I was ready to leave at 18, so I didn't think I would come back. And it wasn't until it was gone for. I was gone for about ten years that I realized, you know, how much I really love El Paso and how special it is. And even after having gone to amazing universities and working at other schools, there's just something really, really special about Loretto. It always felt like home. And that sense that you talked about where students ran the school, that's exactly what I felt when I was there.

[23:39] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: You know, I sat on the board of the chamber of commerce when I was president, and the school administrators and the people that would be discussing the schools at these meetings would say over and over, our best and our brightest leave El Paso. And one time I just stood up and I said, I'd like to respond to that. They might leave, partially. They leave to learn. How did they do? How do we do it in another part of the world? And if they're destined to come back, they come back and make things better, too. It's very important that people get out, away from El Paso. Just like you said, I left. I graduated in May, went to the convent in September, and you are exposed to a wider world, and that's if God wants you to come back. That's where you come, and then you can use the new gifts and graces that you've received. So I think we both reflect that. Stop complaining that our best and our brightest goal. Yeah, they can come back.

[24:55] NICOLE COBB: Exactly. They can always come back.

[24:58] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: And, you know, we made reference a few minutes ago because of the fire at that school. We are the ones that say, that was a tragedy, negative, whatever. Where was God in all of this? Well, God was right there. There are things that happen in our lives that we don't know at the moment, the purpose and the why. But if you trust, you will see in time, in your lifetime, the outcomes. We ended up with a gorgeous new gym and a small little theater that was no longer in the gym. You know, the conflicts between the fine arts and the athletic. We were all in one gym, and now we ended up with two. I would never wish a fire on anybody, but God never sends us bad. We make it bad or good.

[26:02] NICOLE COBB: Absolutely. Again, this is why, sister, it's so helpful to have you right around the block, because there are definitely days or weeks, even months, that have seemed like, oh, this is difficult, this is bad. What are we going to do? And it's just so helpful to. To be with you and to hear these stories and to reflect and think, I don't know if this is bad. It just is what it is. And maybe there's a new opportunity here, or maybe for me, this is very personally difficult, but I don't see the bigger story, the bigger picture, the bigger story, the narrative. For me personally, we've talked a lot about, okay, I just need to let go, do what's right, you know? And, yeah, like you said, God will take care of. Will take care of the rest, right?

[26:59] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Absolutely. As long as you don't give up. And of course, he never leaves you. Never. I always tell the story about when I was working on, via media, the home, the shelter for women experiencing homelessness, and why we had to rehab a building, had to furnish it, raise the money, whatever. And one night in the convent, I woke up and I said, dear Lord, what in the world makes you think I can do this? And God said, helen, what in the world makes you think you're doing it? And I laughed out loud. I did. I said, oh, my gosh, all these years, because I was already in my sixties, all these years, I've always thought, I've done this for your greater honor and glory, but I thought I was doing it. And since that moment, I don't worry about anything. I'm not in charge. But I have strong graces, God's presence. And so why do you worry? And if you read through the gospels, how many times does Jesus say, why were you afraid of, don't be afraid. Here I am, and he's with us. So I think that's very important. Very important. We're not by ourselves ever. And it's extremely important to remember that we need to be mindful of our creator, who continues to create us every day, just like he does our beautiful world. And we're desperately trying to get it back to where original beauty. And I think we will in time. We just have to trust.

[28:54] NICOLE COBB: Absolutely. And I love that you talk about all the work that you did, and sometimes it's easy to think that's our work, right. But it's, we're doing work through graces that were given to us and with help that was given to us. And it's not just sitting back and saying, oh, it'll all work out in the end, without doing any work. There was a student that I was talking to earlier this year, and she'd applied to call. Well, I was asking her about her applications to college, and she said something like, well, I'm not too worried it'll all work out in the end. I just pray. And I thought, oh, my goodness, that's not going to get you anywhere. You have to do some work, too.

[29:39] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Yes, very definitely. Very definitely, yes, yes. Sometimes people think they just can't do it. You just do it, God. And I think God gives it right back to you. But maybe with a little better understanding of how important it is for all of us to do our part. Do our part. I think that's one of the things that is so important. And being educators and, you know, we definitely have values. How are you feeling about the four core values? Because you came in, those had been established. How do you feel about those?

[30:26] NICOLE COBB: I feel like our students are talking about them a lot more and using them in their language, and I think it's important that they do because they have to start grappling with what those look like. Right. Because, I mean, the four core values are a little bit nebulous. I mean, what does it mean to show respect or to stand for justice? And so I think it's good that they're grappling with it and trying to figure out what that looks like in their world. It's an important thing for us all to have a common language at the school, right. And.

[31:02] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Absolutely.

[31:02] NICOLE COBB: And it really, like you always say, it goes back to the mission and why was the school founded and what is the school doing? What is the school's purpose? And I think that we have to think about it all the time, but especially now, because the school has gone through transition and is now heading into the centennial. And, and hopefully we are, I shouldn't say hopefully we are preparing ourselves for what comes next, you know, but we always have to be mindful of our roots and make sure that we are grounded in our mission.

[31:44] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, when one of alums come back, sometimes they say, oh, it's so different. It's so changed. We couldn't sit on the floor and we couldn't. In my day, we had to go in silence in the hallways and all that. Well, and I say, you know, if you don't change, you die. And I learned that by being in the Rotary Club. Those are many, many businesspersons, and they're positive they're going to make it. It's a wonderful environment. I used to go every week that I could to the meetings because they were inspiring to be in a group of, a large group of people that only think positive. If you think negatively, you jeopardize your business.

[32:59] NICOLE COBB: Sorry.

[33:01] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: So I do think that what we talk about when we talk about respect, justice, community and faith, and I notice, for example, when the children come to the liturgies and the principals say something to them after the mass, and they're always positive, they say really wonderful in affirming things to the children, stress those values, make reference to the homily, the reasons that father has kind of focused on for them. They hear it a lot, and they. That's so important that they're caught doing good things all the time. So I think that's a wonderful place I would want my children to be.

[33:57] NICOLE COBB: I think we. Yes. Having been around for a while, there are people who say, oh, it's different. It wasn't right. It wasn't. There's that nostalgia that, well, it's not quite the same because you don't have nuns teaching every single class or. But I do feel that that emphasis on the core values is really important, and we do have to change. I mean, stagnant water is not good water.

[34:25] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: You know what I mean?

[34:25] NICOLE COBB: It breeds bad things, like there always will be change. And our, our students are different, too. The world that they live in is very different. But this is where it's just going back to the mission and making sure that we are educating the whole child. And what that looks like, you know, 100 years from now is probably going to be different from what it looks like today. Otherwise, like you said, we just haven't evolved, and that's not good. We all have to evolve, and there's all sorts of outside pressure on us. So that's what, you know, that's what drives evolution. I guess you can see that. I'm a science teacher. Right. But you have to evolve. You have to evolve. And part of that evolution is constant reflection and finding out, you know, what's good, what are our strengths, and celebrating those. But we also have to say, okay, where do we need to grow and how do we do that? And then where are we going? What's our vision? And I think those are all really important questions to always ask.

[35:26] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Yes. And that's your job, to keep that ball rolling. Very, very important. I think a school can run without a principal. That happens sometimes, or a president, but not for very long, because you have to have the people that are doing the groundwork. They don't have time to really stop and research and all of that, except in their areas of expertise. But the president, it's your job to make sure that we are doing what we profess that we are doing and to be mindful of that in all of your decision making. And always be assured that you are trying to be in touch with what the almighty is asking of us as individuals. And basically give glory, give glory to the Lord. And that's really what we're doing, I hope.

[36:36] NICOLE COBB: Well, Sister Helen, I know you had told me one time that the highest compliment that someone can pay you is to say, I give thanks to God for you. And I definitely give thanks to God for you because you've just been so amazing. And as you know, this is a role that requires a lot both day to day, but also just thinking about the future and making decisions that will impact the future of the school. And you're responsible for a lot of little souls at the end of the day. So it's just wonderful to be able to hear your stories and listen to your wisdom and just seek your advice. So, thank you.

[37:28] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Well, I am very proud of you since you are one of our alums and that you've come home to Loretto And I think it's wonderful that you have these beautiful three children and a. A very loving husband because you need that and you need to remember that. That has to be a very high priority for you. And then listen very carefully, because I don't think that you think you're going to be there forever. Like, sometimes our sisters can stay forever. But listen, because the Lord is speaking to you constantly, and you will know when it's time to move on. And I hope it's not real soon, but I understand the responsibilities that you and your husband have, and we just feel very, very, very proud and very grateful that you said yes at this time in your life, because I think you are where you belong at this time.

[38:38] NICOLE COBB: Thank you. Yeah. With three kids, it doesn't feel like it's gonna be the right time, but sometimes. But I just. I did feel like I needed to say yes, because I think there are experiences that I've had and things that I've seen that I hope will help shape the school for better and.

[39:03] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: Well. And, you know that we. It's evident that the religious orders are diminishing our own order as well. And years ago, maybe 20 years ago, we actually started to brainstorm. Now, how do we. We're not going to have more nuns coming in. We could see the story on the wall. And our final thing was, we need to keep in touch with our alums, because they've been educated here. They understand what our mission is, and it's happening.

[39:37] NICOLE COBB: Well, there you go. Well, thank you so much, sister Helen, for letting me interview you today.

[39:48] SISTER HELEN SANTAMARIA: My pleasure. I was excited when you asked me, and I hope we did okay.

[39:54] NICOLE COBB: I hope so, too.