Nicole Thibodeau and Claire Coté

[00:07] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Hi, my name is Nicole Thibodeau. I'm 42, and it is March 16 of 2023. I am in Taos, New Mexico, and I will be talking with my friend Claire.

[00:23] CLAIRE COTU00E9: My name is Claire Coté I'm 41. It's March 16, 2023, and I am north of Questa in Sunshine Valley. Excited to be chatting with my friend Nicole today.

[00:42] NICOLE THIBODEAU: You want to ask me a question?

[00:45] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yes. I'm dying, too. Very briefly, how would you describe yourself and me? Whichever you want to do first. Yourself or me?

[01:03] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Well, I mean, I think we're similar in some ways. So I guess I can start. I'll start with me and how. I think we're similar. We're both creative people, and we're from this area of the world, which is pretty unique. So more about me, I guess I've always been a lover of learning, and that comes in all different forms. I like to paint, and I like to learn about. I've learned about library stuff more recently in my life, and I work at the library, and that is very important to me. If I would. I feel like we've talked about this a little bit, but I feel like if I was just making art, maybe I would feel slightly less satisfied, because when you work at a job that benefits the community, you feel like I'm really doing something. I'm really helping somebody. So librarianship is really important to me. And if it wasn't librarianship, it would probably be something else that helped the community. I want people to be sheltered. I want people to be fed and clothed. Just get the basics. That seems to be important to me right now, and that gets related to library work sometimes when we have houseless individuals who are in the building. So what else? I don't know if you know this about me, but I like to dance. And I was living in Kansas, and they had absolutely no adult dance classes where I was living. And I thought, I just. I have to get back to my hometown. I know they have african dance and haitian dance and, you know, freestyle techno dance up in Taos maybe. So that was one of the things I missed. I guess a big part of my place in my life right now is that I've been away from New Mexico for about 20 years and missed it, and I'm happy to be back. So what about. What about you? I don't know. Do you like to dance, Claire?

[03:45] CLAIRE COTU00E9: I was just going to say I didn't know that was another similarity between us, actually. I really, really like to dance also. So. And just. And there's just. I mean, I do in life regardless, but I like to do it formally with other people either. Whether it's like partner dancing or, like you say, african or haitian or different, you know, international forms. But I just started taking a class that's being offered at yoga sala in Questa like a adult contemporary dance, where they do, like, you know, a different thing every. Every month is sort of like, you learn a different form of contemporary dance. So that's been really fun the last couple of months. So we'll have to connect about that. Yeah, it's another. Another fun, mutual connection. Thanks for sharing that.

[04:42] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah, I mean, so far, african dance was pretty hard. I want to go back, but it was like, the class level was pretty high, so.

[04:54] CLAIRE COTU00E9: And it is a workout. I have not done that, actually, really, since I had kids, which means I haven't done it for about ten years, probably, so. Yeah. Well, maybe we'll have to have it. We'll have to have a dance date.

[05:09] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah.

[05:10] CLAIRE COTU00E9: And Chris is trying to learn. He doesn't really know. He wants to know, but he doesn't really know how to be a partner dance lead. So that was one of his things that he found this cheesy dvd and gave it to me for Christmas to help us learn how to. How to. How to do some. Do some dance moves. So we've been trying to work on that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's really fun. I really, really liked hearing your summary of yourself. I really learned a lot. It was really cool. Thank you for sharing that. Let's see here. You kind of covered some of these, the things about, like, what drew you back, but that was something I was interested in that you missed it. Do you want to go into any more, you know, detail about Taos specifically or the area in general? You brought up Taos You know, like, there's. Each place kind of has its different vibe and the different things that are special about it. Even though we're all part of El Norte.

[06:34] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah. I also missed the mountains a great deal. I was out there on the plains, and there are nothing. There's not hills, really that much. There's, you know, you look out and it's just vast empty sky. Sometimes with. Near the edge of the horizon, it gets kind of grayish. And the sky. The sky's a different color because of all the dust in the air. So when I was out there, I was doing a lot of landscape painting, actually, which is sort of a weird thing to do there because it's so empty. And I would make the gray color into sort of a lavender. And then the slight bumps in the scenery would become a little larger, and it would almost look like New Mexico sometimes. And I think, well, I must be a little homesick. These. I'm making these hills a little larger than they actually are. So that's one thing I missed. I know maybe people will at some point listen to this and may not have been to New Mexico or Taos, so I will just explain what I can of the mountain and the scenery here. Taos Mountain is this central mountain that sort of overlooks the town of Taos, and it has a great presence about it. Even if you're someone who's like, I don't believe in that kind of stuff. Well, those kind of people come here and sometimes become believers in the special energy of the area. It's not always calm. It's not always super functional energy. I. When I used to come visit from Kansas, I would feel exhausted just because it, you know, everything happened all at once. But, you know, also on another level, I was visiting all my friends and family as fast as I could, but I feel like it's more than just, you know, a different type of infrastructure or I. Things a little bit impoverished more than other places. I think there is something sort of circular or maybe magnetic. There is something special in this area. And I. I kind of feel like. And I think a lot of people feel like it's related to the mountain. It's also just basically a giant piece of rock up at the top. So I'm sure there's some study somewhere that says rocks have energy and we can measure it. So I missed the mountain. What? You know, the complex magnetic relationship that is part of that mountain. Generally, I don't go in for a lot of woo woo. So that should tell everyone how strong the energy is that I can be a skeptic and still think that there's something going on. I also missed my. My mom has been here the whole time that I have not been here, so I missed my mom. And I also have two sisters in Albuquerque, so I miss them as well. We're not super, super close, but, you know, it's nice. It's nice to have some family near you. And my dad was near me in Kansas, so I had a lot of time with him, which was really good. And then I would come here on Christmas and sometimes in August as well, and see people, see nature, see trees. I miss trees a lot. And I grew up in Pilar, New Mexico, which is a small town south of Taos. And I spent a lot of time outside, and I think you did, too, Claire, probably up there. And when you spend that much time outside, it becomes something that you need. I think that you're like, you know, something's off. I haven't been outside around trees enough lately, so I definitely had that feeling, which I kind of remedied in Kansas. I had a really nice garden. Peach trees and apple trees, small ones, and wisteria, which was a great place for me to connect with nature while I was out there. And the other thing I missed was the culture and people of this area. It's tricultural. Well, probably more than try, but mainly tricultural and diverse. There are diverse opportunities here in terms of religious practices. Like if you would want to practice Hindu, Hinduism, which is something that I began being around when I was seven years old. Or if you would like to get into Buddhism, which I know you've been around, Claire, that there is a strong community for both of those. Or if you're. If you're Catholic, there's a very old tradition going back here in some beautiful churches. I miss more open mindedness around religion that happens here. And I missed the Hanuman temple, which I grew up going to. So every time I visited, I would go visit Hanuman, and I see the people who are, since I don't have a big family of really close people who I grew up with, I have people who are at the temple and people who are part of the friendships that my mom created here in Taos. So it's almost like a bunch of aunts and uncles that knew me from when I was really little. I see you nodding. Maybe you have similar.

[14:03] CLAIRE COTU00E9: I can relate.

[14:05] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah.

[14:10] CLAIRE COTU00E9: That covers a lot. Yeah. You mentioned your dad being in Kansas, and I was curious if that's where his family is, that where he's from.

[14:20] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Originally, or so you know, how I was talking about weird energies and stuff, that he was married to this unique individual named Mari Pilar. She took the name of the town pilar, when they lived there, and she did the I Ching and some numerology readings and decided that the midwest was the ideal location for them to move to the nineties. And so they did. And he. Well, also, there was a wonderful little farm that was, I'm sure, very inexpensive in superior, Nebraska. So he. He was able to afford it. And then he. Then he moved out there right when I was kind of looking at colleges, and that got. That's what brought me out there. I wanted to focus on art. And there was a Lutheran college there called Bethany College that had two professors who had studied at Yale, and they were absolutely excellent. Mary Kay and Frank Shaw, who are now retired. But. So it was a little bit of an unusual fit for me because I'm not Lutheran, and. And Kansas was a strange place to go to from New Mexico, but as far as art instruction, they were absolutely incredible, and I was grateful for that time with them. So that's how I got there. I used to take the train from Lamy to Newton, Kansas, and then my dad would come pick me up, and we would eat in Lindsburg. And so he said, well, there's a college here. Do you want to look at it? I was okay, you know.

[16:38] CLAIRE COTU00E9: And that wasn't that far from where he was located.

[16:41] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah, he was. It was, I think, a couple hours north in Nebraska, so.

[16:50] CLAIRE COTU00E9: And did he end up moving to Kansas or did he stay in Nebraska?

[16:54] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah, after I graduated, he moved to the town I had been in, and then he moved again to a town called Marquette, which is next to Lindsburg. And he lived there for a long time. Yeah.

[17:17] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Where were your parents originally from, and how did they get to, like, this kind of leads into the question of if you were to kind of. You've painted some of your life story of some missing pieces that I didn't really know about, but if you were to kind of, like, tell a little bit of your family story that you don't mind sharing, you know, whatever you don't want to share, but. And then, like, how they. How you kind of your family ended up here, starting that connection out, and then however much. Whatever else you might want to share in terms of your. Your growing up and other parts.

[17:58] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Sure. Um, so my dad has a pretty cool story because he was in New Hampshire. So my last name is Thibodeau And we go back to the Thibodeau who were kicked out of Canada for not pledging their allegiance to England. And which I'm. I mean, I don't know. My dad was always. I could see him being the one, but it was his ancestors. So he was interested in art from a young age, and his parents were supportive, but they didn't have any money, really, to, you know, give to him to go to college. So when he was 18, he just up, and he decided he needed to go to California. So he did. He went all the way across the country and went to California. And I think he worked in restaurants and, you know, odd jobs supporting himself. And I just. I think back and think about the courage that must have taken. I'm sure he didn't have much money saved. You know, he just was like, I'm gonna go to California. And. And he, throughout his life, would do stuff like that where he just, you know, like, well, like, I guess I'm gonna do this now. So he and I don't have. I probably even don't have his full life story memorized because he had quite an adventurous life, but it included. So my mom was his and third wife, I'm counting. Yep. Third. So his first wife, I'm not exactly sure where. Maybe they were in California, I'm not sure. But she was from the midwest, oddly enough. And they had one child together named Sean Marie, who was my oldest half sister, who has since passed away, even within my dad's lifetime. And my dad has passed away last January. So within his lifetime, Sean Marie passed away. And I didn't really know her that well, but that was his first marriage and last super long, his second marriage was to. Well, to a woman who already had a child and her child, Angelique. My dad just fell in love with her, and that was part of the relationship, was him just doting on this child. And I think they all lived in Arizona for a while, at least, and then they had a child together, which is my sister, Yvette.

[21:27] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Okay.

[21:29] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah. So. And then that marriage broke up, and he was. He was in Santa Fe, and he met my mom, who was in Santa Fe. Now, my mom had grown up in Orange County, California, and she had come to Santa Fe to. She was doing environmental lobbying. She was writing to, you know, she was kind of an activist. And also she said, in her words, dancing, improvisational flamenco when she was. Had free time. So that may have been where they met. My dad knew this musician named Antonio Mendoza, who played beautiful. Do you know this musician?

[22:29] CLAIRE COTU00E9: I do, yeah.

[22:31] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Gorgeous music. So I. I can only imagine there was a time at which they were, you know, brought together by her dancing slash music happening. I'm not exactly sure, but in my mind, it's something like that. There was also something about a blanket. My mom was living in a goat shed with no heating, and my dad had heat. There was something in having a warm place to stay, and that kind of brought them together as well. I mean, I think it was a nice goat shed, but maybe not. Well, he did. This is back in the day when Santa Fe, Washington. Little bit more rustic and funky. And so that. That. Wait, the question was, where'd they come from? I think I answered that.

[23:32] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yeah. Yeah, we got. Yep. Yeah. So that's how they met. And then how they get up here. They met in Santa Fe.

[23:40] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah, he had. My dad had a frame shop on Canyon Road called the plum tree. And, you know, it was in the time of Georgia O'Keeffe and all that going on, so his business was booming. He was. It may have been the best business he ever had, but he went fly fishing in Pilar one day and saw that the cafe and hotel on the corner was for sale and decided that he wanted to move. So. And I think my mom may have already been pregnant, and I, you know, maybe he sort of announced, we're moving. It may have gone something like that. It may have been like, I think we're. I think we should move. Do you want to move? I'm not sure exactly what this conversation looked like, but they ended up moving to Pilar, which is very rural, and. Oh, they had the cafe. So this cafe is in the middle of kind of nowhere. And they decided to make it a vegetarian cafe, which is an interesting choice. And they ran it for, I think, about five years and then sold it. But during that five years, they had. My dad would encourage young artists to come and play there. Eliza Gilkeson came and played Jenny Bird. Were both local. Kind of had some. Had some beginnings at the Polar cafe. And Stephen Hawkins came. Came by one time and tried his vegetarian fare. And also the Hells Angels bike gang. My dad wrote. Wrote down pilar stories before he passed, and one of them is about the Hells angels coming to eat at his cafe. And then he also had a youth hostel. The hotel became a youth hostel, which meant that people came from all over the world to stay there and to stay for not much money. So that was a really neat way for me to grow up. I remember somebody from France coming with her dog and his. His name translated to security blanket. That's nice. I like that.

[26:48] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yeah.

[26:50] NICOLE THIBODEAU: So just neat. Pretty social childhood.

[26:58] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yeah. Really diverse. Interesting exposures.

[27:03] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Yeah, it's cool.

[27:08] CLAIRE COTU00E9: That's really, really interesting and fascinating. I took some notes because that's just. That's. That's where our connection, our story connection began is when Chris was working for your dad when you were really little. And they both. I forgot they were both from New Hampshire, but that's part of it. Yeah. I'm sure that was part of the interest at the time, too, that they were both up here. Yep.

[27:39] NICOLE THIBODEAU: And that's. My dad would do that. He would. You know, if somebody couldn't pay for their room, he would say, that's okay. Help me build an earth ship or put on the roof to the, you know, the big, long hotel building.

[27:55] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yep.

[27:56] NICOLE THIBODEAU: He kept building the property, got more and more built. It just got built up. He made these little geodesic domes out back. And then there was also, oh, one. One year of the project was, let's dig a hot tub and then have somebody put, you know, make the inside all rock. Like, you know, all different kinds of rocks fit together. So, yeah, I'm glad he. I'm glad he connected with him. Mm hmm. Yeah.

[28:38] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Let's see here. Our time is. Is flying by seeing that, which is really. I feel like we should let you.

[28:48] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Talk some because you have such a life.

[28:51] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Well, I'm kind of interested in knowing something. I have a question I really wanted to ask you, which is, how would you describe the origins and the evolution of your arts practice in relation to your. In relation to your life, and then how that kind of. You see that intertwining with your future?

[29:16] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Good question. So, for those of you who may listen in the future, Claire and I are just coming together as. As an arts duo ish, something. We're art pals. So I appreciate that question. I think at first, my first memories of making art in a sort of fine art way were with my dad. He would do summer workshops. He'd invite artists from Santa Fe to come do workshops. That was one of his best sources of revenue in Pilar. And he was also an artist himself. So he'd take me. I'd either be around the workshops and. Or in them. I remember doing paper making and marbling, which was super fun. And then if it was just me and my dad, we go somewhere and just paint watercolors together. And at that point in life, I had, like, a whole bunch of other interests, like, I don't know, tree climbing, eating green apples, making mud pies. So art wasn't my, like, top favorite thing. I just thought it was fun. And then my parents got divorced when I was seven, and so I mostly was in Taos instead of in Pilar. And at that point, I had different opportunities in the Taos community, like, contests. And my mom was very supportive and would, like, make sure I got in. There was a God in the arts contest that I really liked. I painted this giant, pregnant moon goddess, which is so very Taos. And I did well in that contest and felt very, you know, like, successful, which was. And somebody bought the giant painting. So that was encouraging. I also, for high school, I went to Chamisa Mesa, which was a private school that is no longer in existence. And it was an incredible community that really fostered whatever people were into. Like, they would figure out how to make, make it so you could do something more. And I. I wanted to go off the class blocks were 2 hours, and they said, I said, can I go draw my friend in a tree? And they were, they said, sure. Just, you know, come back, come check in when you're done. And so I would do that. And also at that point, I was taking some life drawing classes after school through UNM, which was basically because I didn't have. We didn't have a lot of homework at that school. They structured it so all your coursework was within the, within your class. There was time to do your homework, for the most part, within your class time, and so you could do things outside of school and focus on them. So at that point, I was getting more interested in art. And by the time I went to college, I was like, I want to do art. And I didn't have a career path. I just was like, where can I go where I will have great teachers and get to do more art? And so that's why I went to Bethany College, and I just got a BA in studio art, and I also got to travel. Whenever I was like, I don't know if I want to be in Kansas at this school. That's. I don't. I feel so out of place. I would get some awesome opportunity, like, would you like to do a semester in France? Oh, yes, I would like to do that. I will. I will go do that now. Or would you like to do a summer in Italy? Oh, yeah. I think I will stay at this school and go to Italy. Thank you. So I. I at times consider transferring to an art institute, but never did because of all the awesome travel opportunities. And my professors were fantastic. So, um. So I was very serious about art at, when I got that degree and I graduated, and I had the kind of typical feeling after graduation, which was, oh, what am I gonna do? I didn't really plan for a career, so I went to New York and was a nanny for about a year. And at that point, my art was going to the art Students league and taking classes, which was great fun, and trying to figure out how to show my stuff in New York easily, which meant paying $10 for one night and one wall, some in some dive. So, um, I guess, uh, I guess it relates to how I went through college, my evolution as an artist, it kind of. So I came back to New Mexico after that year in New York and worked in a clothing printing shop that made organic hand printed garments, and that was pretty artistic. At the same time, I had a whole body of work, which was about shoes and spoons. I think there were a few spoons, mostly shoes. And I had the show at Cafetazza, which was a coffee shop, and it did really well. And then I realized, hey, I want to go get an MFA. And so I got in at Fort Hays State University and went there. I still didn't have a career in mind at this time. I had worked as a student worker at my undergrad. I had done library work, and then when I went to grad school. What do you want to do? I guess I'll work in the library. I'll do a. Yeah, I'll do some work study in the library and help out in the. In the. The gallery at the school. And. And then I got an MFA, and I was bored, I guess. And I met this really great teacher named Amy Cummins at Fort Hays State University, and I. And she said, well, you should get an MA in English. And I said, oh, don't I need a BA in English? And she said, no, you'll be fine. So I got that, too.

[37:35] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Wow.

[37:36] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Just because I was kind of bored, I guess. I was like, what else can I do? There's a big college here. I guess all I like writing and reading a whole lot. I guess I'm leaving that out. I always have love to read and write, and sometimes I make art that has words stuck in it. And so then I started working at the public library, and that became more and more until it was full time, and I had graduated by then and was doing for a while. I worked part time. I worked, like, 36 hours a week. And then I could do more art. Did some solo shows, did some group shows. I had a group called the visage visage art tribe, which I still think the sexy chicken name should have won, but whatever. Um, the man in the group would not go for it. The girls were like, sexy chicken? Yeah. The guy was like, no, I will not be part of sexy chicken. Yeah, it was fun.

[39:07] CLAIRE COTU00E9: Yeah, we did.

[39:10] NICOLE THIBODEAU: We were plein air, mostly just plein air. Kansas three person art group. And then the guy got a girlfriend, and, you know, things weren't the same. I could just see her saying, you wanted. You hang out with people who wanted to name a group sexy chicken. I don't know, honey. There's some boundary issues here. Well. And we all kind of moved on in our own ways, too. It wasn't just that. And then at that point, I also did my art. Was it was sometimes spiritual, sometimes landscape, sometimes about still life and, which seems like a lot, and it is. And it still, sometimes is like that. I would talk to my dad about it and he would say he had, he had studied with Alfredo Zoltzi in Mexico, who was a really prolific artist who did everything. And he would say, well, just like Alfredo Zoltzi said, it's all good. Do it all. Yeah.

[40:51] CLAIRE COTU00E9: I think we have to end it. There we are at. Oh, we ran out. We ran out. And that's a great way. That's a great place to end.

[41:01] NICOLE THIBODEAU: Look at you getting me talking.

[41:05] CLAIRE COTU00E9: I knew that. I knew that I could. Well.