Elizabeth Clark and Lisa-Marie Venegas

00:14 My name is Lisa Venegas. I am 44 years old today is November 3rd 2007. And where in the Nashville Public Library and I'm here with my mother Elizabeth Anita Clark also known as bedding.

00:32 I am Elizabeth Anita Clark and i m h a t

00:38 Today's date is November 3rd 3 2007 and I am at the Nashville Public Library.

00:50 Well Mom, we're here to talk about you and you were born in Germany. And I know you want to talk about your life in Germany. What brought you here to the states of my acquaintance with America started when the war ended in 1945. I was pretty shell-shocked from bumping sand being shot by airplanes in quite a few and tell.

01:18 So when the troops came we pretty much hit in the cellar.

01:25 The first two days and I finally I was contacted.

01:32 By the occupational troops and tools that since I was a photographer I was to do the 4 to work within a 50-mile radius for the troops and somebody would come everyday and to bring films and tell another person would come and pick them up.

01:50 In the process of doing that I was also taken to Auschwitz and buchenwald. I was 17 years old and I saw the greatest course, I would ever encounter in my life.

02:06 Until it was it was a shock 17. That's a very young age, but it it did it was terrible end.

02:17 It's a sort of shape my life from there on in and the number one kindness to your fellow man is is the first thing that comes to mind that you have a lisp I and II is

02:35 Believe what you hear because all these things that happened. We're true. Even though people are still it didn't I to this date?

02:44 I want them to know it is true. It is true and all I could think of that time was here by the grace of God go I

02:56 I know you had a your father pretty much right led the resistance in his town didn't he? Exactly because he was against Hitler he he had a heart attack and died at age 47.

03:12 So I lost him.

03:16 My great hero.

03:18 II at any rate the troops the troops supplied me with a library. I had no knowledge of English. I learned English through the radio to FM radio.

03:32 Nashville was very prominent their country music to the point that my English was very tainted.

03:42 People who spoke to me said honey child. We're from down south are you so at any rate? They left behind when they when they went back to the States. They left behind their libraries paperbacks and became a ferocious reader.

04:03 I've probably read books to three times to get the full meaning of them enter my English progress tremendously, especially because the

04:20 America newspaper was delivered to me every night as well. So I was kept up on current events into

04:29 But English approved so you went to work for the the Rhine Air Force Base run main air force on base after they lived after new food photography was out because people did not have money to to the purchase pictures. They had no money for anything. So I taught myself how to type and became of stock and became a typist and end then a secretary and then an interpreter and then I was able to pay back by teaching

05:05 Conversational German environment Air Base, I did that on the side.

05:12 I wasn't paid for that.

05:14 Show in 1953 I married.

05:19 An Airforce pilot

05:23 What is his name?

05:25 What was his name?

05:27 Leo B Clark first lieutenant, and he was from Maine. He was from Millinocket, Maine and we went to the states and six months later. He got killed at Fort Bragg.

05:40 North Carolina dropping paratroopers

05:44 So now that was a big story at the time to wasn't a Dodge was a tremendous story feel he

05:54 He needn't have died. But he saved he saved hundreds of Life by steering to playing away from falling paratroopers show at any rate of I went to live in Maine for a year-and-a-half and found out that as an immigrant since I was no longer married, I would have to wait 5 years to become a citizen.

06:21 Which to me was was just unacceptable and Margaret Chase Smith the senator from Maine try to help me and changing that laws. So instead of having to wait 5 years. I still did not have to wait more than three, but she was not successful. So the Army contacted me and they said they need a person to establish a lap in Guam.

06:52 Enter

06:55 I said, oh I'll be happy to do that and I found out.

07:00 That I couldn't go because I wasn't a citizen. So I was again handicapped OU army. Take over the only branch in the end in the services who accept non-citizens if you agree to become one within 3 months and I said, oh, yes, I will so I went to basic training.

07:21 At Anniston, Alabama

07:26 Anti qualify for old 13 job search for available to wax at that time. And finally they found Fort Worth Texas needed effect for needed a food lab Chase. So I was transferred to Fort Worth Texas. Why was it so important for you to become a citizen because I mean for sure so many reasons number one having lived in Germany and having a Hitler come to power. I needed to be able to participate in the process of electing people and going to vote was tremendously important to me. I just could not fathom anything happening in this country.

08:17 And me standing on the sideline watching I needed to participate so so that's why citizenship was very very important thing to me.

08:28 And so there

08:33 II

08:37 So you were in Fort Hood Texas at that time? I was in Fort Worth, Texas. Yes, and I did all kinds of do I set up Photo Labs for for all kinds of organizations that came during the summer time National Guard ROTC at you name it and don't

08:58 So then I met your father.

09:03 Now that's okay. I need room because Dad was a steward for Eastern Airlines and you were in an alarm exactly at any rate. We got married and I had to leave the Armed Forces because in those days women where women were not allowed to be married when there were in the in the service. I still believe in that I still believe in that show at any rate of move to New York for a year. I work as a photographer for a year. Then your father got transferred to, Cleveland, Ohio.

09:48 Should we move to Cleveland lifter for 3 years?

09:53 I was looking for a job and printing industry of Cleveland look for a bookkeeper. They were a mistake and I thought they were looking for a photographer but they were hooking for a bookkeeper now. I've never done bookkeeping in my life, but I said, okay, how long do I have to close the books of the three sets of them for three organizations? And they said you have exactly 7 days and I said okay if I don't close the books in 7 days, you don't know me as hint.

10:25 I closed the books on the last day of the month and I was hired.

10:31 And I handled Group insurance plan for 72 member companies. I establish the premiums and I paid the claims and what have you and Tom.

10:45 I did bookkeeping and then to cost accountant diet and I had asked him to teach me what he was doing until I became a cost accountant. They didn't hire anybody until I left three years later.

10:58 Show and how many people did they have to hire when you left o'lord for assume?

11:05 So at any rate went to we went to Puerto Rico Lyft in Puerto Rico and I became Group Insurance manager for Republic National Life something I had done before but had a great book and I set the rates and had two company accept them and I

11:28 I paid the claims at the same time.

11:32 Enter

11:36 Unfortunately, they did not pay women, but with what they paid men I was paid half of what my predecessor was paid and I did not find that acceptable show. So I went and I studied insurance and I passed my

11:54 My broker's license all lines of insurance and open my own business.

12:00 Or not I have to think that that's probably wasn't very common back in that was in the sixties right for a woman to have her own business and especially in a Latin culture. He was tough and and not only that if I do if I forgot to say when I first came over I had to do the same thing. I had done when when I learned English, I shut out everything and just concentrated on Spanish.

12:26 And within six months I stood in front of 400 people and spoke to them in Spanish.

12:33 Telling them about their insurance plan.

12:37 Enter till from then on I mean I had the courage to do it and it it just it just went fine and

12:44 Yeah, I was there for 13 years. So that's where I came in came along and then unfortunately I got divorced.

12:59 And decided I wanted to go back to the States and see what

13:05 What I could do for both of us over there. And so I went and apply for a job in 1974. And that was 7 days before Arisa the Employee Retirement Equity Security Act of 1974. And I went to New England and I had high recommendations and

13:30 They said do you think you can handle the pension plans? And I said well, let me have that file and take it to your hotel tonight and I'm going to look it over and I'll tell you tomorrow morning and the next day I say that I can handle that account. No problem. And that was 74. That was the time of a big recession wasn't it? I mean, they're the one I made a lot of July everybody said and 74 you don't get a job White Collar jobs are out. Totally you don't get a job and I said, of course I get a job.

14:05 Your woman I was 46 years old.

14:11 Think of it, so I went back and got the job and we move to Atlanta.

14:19 And I just you know it as a woman executive then I mean, that's basically what you became. I mean, I think you really paved the way for a lot of women to really be Executives and management and you know how to raise the bar for a lot of women to be able to make a real career besides just being a secretary right in the house. I mean, I mean you really

14:45 Helped women rise to higher positions. That's right, and you know it and you kind of keep that in mind. Also, you know that so everything you do, you know, you have two Excel.

14:58 And set an example to set an example of ours didn't mean a thing to me. I mean, I've I work long hours every day and many years. I didn't even take a vacation but I figured seeing our clients all over the south end in Puerto. Rico was enough vacation in itself, you know, so so I know I really enjoyed doing what I was doing and at at the same time. Oh my goodness are our business improved so much that we had to hire. I mean we went from from a three-person office in 74 to an 8-person office adjust for the pension.

15:43 With in within a year

15:47 Well, yeah, so I ate was sure it was a great thing until I got to act like I do really, you know, I do the things I enjoy doing which was talking to people. Sometimes you explain a pension plan to a group of maybe ten people and other times there were hundreds the factories, you know that it is that you had to explain the pension plan to and encourage them to save for the future and and have a safety Nish.

16:23 For the retirement, you know, so let me ask you something that you've said many times and that's that you have always felt he had so many more opportunities in the United States than you did in Germany in internment of your your Typecast. Okay. The number one, I was not allowed to have higher education.

16:43 At age 13 I had to serve a year on the farm and because of my father's stance and in his politics, I was not allowed to do anything but the servant apprenticeship. So that's where I became a photographer because my father was an amateur photographer and show

17:08 That's how I fell into photography. But I was so mad at the inability to to study. That's why I am still today a ferocious reader, you know, I mean, I'd I just never stopped learning and just like in the Army at Fort Worth, Texas. I took classes in the noncommissioned Officers Training learned elocution and was sent to the food into the into the Post Theaters to talk about weird communism and the Nazis and the danger of communism.

17:53 In time so is it was sure that was something that I learned that help me in the future. When I stood in front of employees talking about their pension plan, you know, it will develop into so fortunate because I have been able to take so many tests and I passed my GED and then at the University of Maine they they tested me and I was in the last year of college in my knowledge and what-have-you the newest know you'd only been through 13 years of schooling in these are the opportunities that this country provides for you that it's a shame if people do not make use of them when they come here, you know, I have never considered a

18:48 Accepting a handout

18:51 I have always try to earn.

18:57 What I what I receive in every fashion or form of Charities. Yes, I contributed so many Charities is is pathetic release because I died. I don't know how I ended up on all those lists, but the thing is

19:16 I have received so much that I have to give some back. I have to give back. It's it's it's it's something that's inside of you that you you must do.

19:29 So, is there something that how if you had to say how you would like to be remembered then?

19:37 What would you want to be remembered for?

19:43 That's that's not that's not easy to say. No. I just I just I try to be a good person a good citizen.

19:54 Never fails to vote never once

19:59 Yeah.

20:01 &

20:04 Like that broker said in in in South Carolina to the gym to a friend who wanted to shop like mine. There's only one penny Clark so don't try to imitate me because I can't work. There's only one buddy Clark but that's that's how I want to be remembered as as somebody who earned her.

20:28 Her right to be in this country who earned every step of the way the things that were given to her.

20:43 Be a good citizen. I want to be a good citizen till the day. I die. You know, I don't want ever ever have this country.

20:56 Face the thing you sent to debtors that Germany faced with Hitler.

21:02 That's that's my

21:07 That's that's that's it.

21:09 Well, you do have another child besides me and that's your son Robert alt so, is there something that you would like to say about him any stories about him?

21:24 That you would like to share or something that you would like him to know.

21:34 That's not fair. He's a pretty amazing person in a lot of that comes from you. He is he is he is he is in phone. Unfortunately of that was something I did that I do not talk about and

21:55 But there's got to be something that you are very they said you're proud of him. So what is it that that you're proud of about him and that you would want him.

22:05 II know

22:07 About how you feel about him.

22:09 Oh and I think it said he is he is an exact replica of my father really and what way he knows how to do everything. I mean, it's just that there's nothing he cannot accomplish since he was little he just absolutely nothing.

22:33 He could not do.

22:36 And I insisted on both my children going through college because I couldn't do that and so he did and he's pee pick up Spanish and in Puerto Rico so fast, it wasn't funny again. I mean

22:56 She stepped into my

23:00 My company that did that I was working for at the time of selling mutual funds and he became an executive. He's vice-president. He's a stockbroker he's so he's fantastic of him my goodness. Yes.

23:26 Well

23:30 And you know, it's funny cuz I at one point we thought it was going to be a beach bum. So he was to self along the way. I had to kick him out which kick him out of the nest wake him up.

23:50 Yeah, but I hate obviously turned out the better for it. So she did so my life story.

24:03 It's been wonderful. Let me ask you about Buddy your first husband because I always thought that was such a tragic story. I mean you fell in love you were only married 6 months and then he died. He's killed. I was married seven and nine months when he got killed six months in this country.

24:24 And I mean if it if it hadn't been for Mom and Dad Clark, oh my goodness. What a wonderful wonderful family.

24:35 I admit them just after I came into on vacation for 4 weeks and that's that was the extent of our of our knowledge of each other really so they took me in and they just absolutely treated me as one of their own they were just marvelous was that strange to them that he married somebody in Germany while he was stationed there. I mean, we got over a problem. At all not at all that I mean they just as a matter fact, you're the one thing that that stuck to their wish.

25:09 You don't sound German what?

25:14 You sound like a southerner. So yeah, and then there was Uncle Archie who was a main guard wonderful life. I went hunting and fishing with him and God.

25:29 I meant Ted Williams through him who was also an amateur photographer and a hunter and Fisher so another opportunity to to learn something about the states, which was baseball. I had no idea about baseball and tell that was that was just marvelous. But now you're a huge baseball. Oh my goodness, of course. Yeah, so that's that's just about it or you've actually met a lot of famous people.

26:00 You've met a lot of famous people now. There was Bishop Sheen. Oh my goodness. I went to I went to Paris and went to an aunt of a sister-in-law who had survived the Titanic the Titanic and her husband got killed and she and her daughter were living in Paris. And when I landed at the airport, I had seen Bishop Sheen with Mom Clark on TV every week. I mean, we've without fail and my goodness we were waiting for luggage together just the two of us and I had had about a half a bottle of champagne in the plane and I was half looped I guess so we started talking to each other.

26:56 And you got my life story out of meeting with about 20 minutes.

27:02 In Puerto Rico the governor of Puerto Rico. His wife had some kind of a some kind of a party going on at home at home in the guest speaker was Bishop Sheen. I couldn't believe it and I had told your father about meeting him in Paris and Tom and he never believe me.

27:28 So here we stand in line and Bishop Sheen is there to greet everybody in older lady said over we met in touch inside the school and in the state's, you know, and he says I am so sorry, but you see I meet so many people I really can't remember but it's good to see you again and to hear come by and he said Betty Clark. What are you doing in Puerto Rico?

27:59 With the numbers 70 what is about 17 years later?

28:03 You still remembered my name I must have made some impression in Paris.

28:12 People that have fun with champagne probably didn't hurt the other with the other big person that made of course was under I'm in Air Base when I was volunteering to to take some photos while I was Secretariat. It really wasn't involved in in photography and you don't go but I was with the lamp off and on to do certain things and I took a picture of Eisenhower

28:40 Anta I mean he saluted me and he was he was a general absolutely. Yeah. I met some very interesting people in my life. I really did

28:59 So it wasn't Harry Belafonte that was in Puerto Rico that no. No that was

29:06 Mona Lisa, who was that

29:11 Who sings Mona Lisa Nat King Cole Nat King Cole Nat King Cole son Melissa for me?

29:19 Of course, I do I mean

29:23 There were so many people that that we met in in casinos in Puerto Rico all my goodness. Yes.

29:30 But there were also some very interesting people that your father was working for the industrial promotion for my part of the Commonwealth of Puerto, Rico and hotel.

29:44 That's when I met very interesting people from Europe.

29:50 Of manufacturer

29:52 & Doug are used to volunteer translating and I still spoke Spanish and French and German and some Italian. I had forgotten most of my tell you when I learn Spanish, but tell so I was I was helping out with those things and that was very interesting but volunteering you no one but God has been an interesting life is what Dad's job you got to two.

30:25 Visit with the the governor of Puerto Rico a lot and meet a lot of dignitaries through the government is such too. Right? I mean, didn't you do a lot of entertaining with the greatest Governor when you was Marine?

30:37 Enter I met him in Cleveland.

30:41 He was he was supposed to come 3 hours earlier and somehow it traffic was bad in the weather was bad and what have you and everybody left and I was sitting there by myself and he comes through the door and we're sitting there talking to each other and to the next time I saw him voice in Puerto Rico and also Junior sailor to make a reservation won the woman of the Americas for 8 years running.

31:10 So I met her and

31:15 I mean it it just why were they so amazing? Why did you like them so much?

31:21 Cool, the Mets arrest and the governor governor was absolutely I mean he took Puerto Rico out of them the sugar King manufacturing business, you know and brought Industries.

31:40 And I had a woman all of a sudden got a job for goodness sakes where they never had the opportunity before you know, so that there were many opportunities to to climb out of property that he provided. So he was a great man. Absolutely. He was also somewhat of a poet and don't know the feeling. I mean she was she was open to everybody's problems. She would listen and does she had she had one day a week where she just had open doors and everybody that had a problem could come and discuss it with her. She was one of the people you know, so she was great.

32:26 And it seems to me like what Dad side of the family there were a lot of very interesting characters as well. That must have been that must have opened a lot of doors, you know, like I know game of the negus and you know some of the artists and

32:42 On Dad's side of the family

32:47 Real

32:49 There was scarier movie negus who was a Tango singer.

32:55 He was fantastic.

32:57 Somehow we ended up in New York and died. He was working for the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to that's how he got the job to go to Cleveland.

33:07 There there was a what was the other guy's name another vinegars who who was the singer in who was in Puerto Rico?

33:20 I don't know. I can't remember his first name, but at any rate he thought he was he was so well known it was fantastic to yell.

33:29 I had just thought that might have been an interesting social life, you know between dad's family and both of yours jobs in do young. Yeah.

33:40 Is a matter of fact I didn't offer a lot of entertaining. Yeah, I remember that growing up do a lot of parties at the house. I used to be known as a good cook to you still are.

33:56 So sure about that anymore.

34:02 I've we have 5 minutes left. We had a yes. So we have to come up feel like I'm going to come asking me these questions here.

34:09 Okay.

34:13 Wow.

34:16 What was the hardest moment you had when I was growing up?

34:26 She's speechless we'll move on.

34:32 Okay. Do you have any regrets?

34:36 The only regret I have is not not having had higher education. I mean that's that. That's my biggest regret. That's something I would have liked to to pursue. As a matter of fact, I would have probably become a professional student if I've had the opportunity so, but but otherwise I I mean

35:05 I've made use of all the all the hours of the day and all the years in my life to to do things on to better myself and to provide for my family and to be a good citizen, so I don't think I have

35:24 Many regrets.

35:27 That I can think of not really.

35:31 Is there a happiest moment in your life? One moment that really stands out to you as one of the happiest.

35:41 The birth of my children definitely without a question.

35:47 So

35:51 Are there many there many choice in life? You know what that.

36:00 Some are freezing and some summer lasting. My grandchildren are a great Joy by now, you know show of

36:10 I don't know.

36:14 Well, what is the saddest point in your life because they're a saddest saddest moment will number one. That's my father loss of my father.

36:27 The loss of my husband

36:32 The inability to chew half of a lasting marriage with your father. Yeah, so

36:41 Those are sad moments, but do you overcome dementia move on?

36:48 That's what life. That's what life is all about.

36:52 Show

36:55 And let me see. Is there anything that you would like to say that?

37:02 That you haven't had a chance to say yet that you would like to add to this interview.

37:08 I don't think so.

37:13 I think I said it all. Okay good.

37:18 Thanks, Mom. You will have a good chat you coming and doing this? It's been interesting it has. Thank you.