Martha Sieniewicz and Dana Austin

[00:00] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[00:02] SPEAKER B: So.

[00:02] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Hi Dana.

[00:04] DANA AUSTIN: Hi, nice to meet you.

[00:05] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Nice to meet you too. So do we start by reading these things aloud? Is that right?

[00:13] DANA AUSTIN: I think that's what they want us to do.

[00:14] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[00:15] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay. How about a book?

[00:20] DANA AUSTIN: Something happened. Can you hear me?

[00:23] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I can still hear you.

[00:23] DANA AUSTIN: Okay, good. There was a bunch of static and then I couldn't. I couldn't hear you. Anyway, so want me to start?

[00:32] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Sure, go ahead.

[00:36] DANA AUSTIN: Well, it should be up there. Oh, there it is. I have to click on it. Okay, you make pies and then you make pies and more pies. Anyway, I love to throw parties from small dinners for dear friends to overflowing Thanksgiving. Thanksgivings to fundraisers for good causes. I'm known for big wiggly earrings and very colorful clothes. Even at work each week in a non-COVID winter, I volunteered at these little kids to ice skate. My husband and I have been together since 1985. We lost all four of our parents quite early, struggled with seven years of infertility, followed by the birth three children in four years and renovated two 19th century houses. I lost my place.

[01:35] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I think it's as of this year. So I wrote this about three or four years ago.

[01:40] DANA AUSTIN: All our kids are in college. Our oldest struggles with anxiety and depression. Our second has been dyslexia. speech writer for a university president. My husband is an architect and I think the best way to introduce myself to someone is to make their favorite pasta.

[02:07] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So I actually would be very curious why you wanted to do this interview today.

[02:14] DANA AUSTIN: I have been look, and I said, I, my wife, I can't have a conversation with her about politics. I see.

[02:27] SPEAKER B: So.

[02:29] DANA AUSTIN: Every, she has incorrect ideas, you know, doesn't have the facts straight. And I've given up trying to say, well, if you look over here, you know, Trump supporter. I'm actually not, but I see.

[02:47] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, that's got to be painful.

[02:49] DANA AUSTIN: Weird. I'm sorry.

[02:51] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: That's got to be really painful.

[02:53] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, it's that. Anyway, but this year I turned 70 and we had our 45th anniversary.

[03:02] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[03:03] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[03:04] DANA AUSTIN: Tolerate me, I guess, as long as I don't talk about politics. Okay. Yeah, so I like to have civil conversations with people about that.

[03:19] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: All right, I can certainly see that. So I guess now I read yours and then we go on from there. Is that right?

[03:25] DANA AUSTIN: Yes, ma'am.

[03:26] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, Palmyra, Virginia. Okay, interests singer-songwriter, inveterate punster, amusing my three granddaughters. A Marine Corps veteran, sergeant. I keep myself extremely fit. My grandpa taught me to shoot at about age 10. I have two full CDs of original music online. My YouTube channel has live performance videos, recordings of live performances, studio work, and some silly stuff. I truly enjoy the food of many cultures. I arranged my daughter's marriage to a man from India. Kidding. My son-in-law is from India, engineer by day, gourmet Indian by chef night, happy by night.

[04:05] SPEAKER B: Me.

[04:05] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I enjoy reading, boating, playing old worm fishing.

[04:10] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah. So.

[04:17] DANA AUSTIN: I guess I should ask the same question. Why do you.

[04:23] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So I'd give you two answers. I can tell you why I signed up for one small step. which is that I really love my country and I'm really sad that we can't talk. The grand, you know, the grand version of what you're describing. So I don't have that problem in my personal life because I live in a place where everyone agrees with me, more or less. So I, but I obviously have the problem that we all have across the country. And then I wanted to do this conversation because there were so many cool things in your bio that we could, we would have a lot to talk about.

[04:58] SPEAKER B: I.

[05:00] DANA AUSTIN: One of your sons struggles with anxiety and depression. About 10 years ago, I was diagnosed as bipolar type two.

[05:13] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[05:14] DANA AUSTIN: And it explains an awful lot of. A lot of things. You know, the man part where I. I work all night on.

[05:23] SPEAKER B: Yeah, yeah.

[05:23] DANA AUSTIN: Something for work. and then calling in. So, certain medication came to work for that.

[05:35] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Good. But boy, do I know what it's like to get some relief just from having a name for it. So, our son who's dyslexic, my husband was probably dyslexic as a child, but back then it was just lazy and stupid.

[05:52] SPEAKER B: Right.

[05:55] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: And then again, to have some proper names for the things that the anxiety and depression that my daughter was going through, which when they're just happening inside your family and you don't have experience of it otherwise, it just seems bad, right? You don't like, don't, you think it's your fault, you think it's their fault, all the things.

[06:12] DANA AUSTIN: You know, as it got worse, caused some distance. between my kids, me, that's all. That's all.

[06:22] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[06:23] DANA AUSTIN: Diagnosis helped everybody, right? Join us together.

[06:27] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[06:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: That's so interesting.

[06:29] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[06:30] DANA AUSTIN: And let's see. Well, the other thing is there's a certain amount of self-medication with that.

[06:36] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, I can imagine.

[06:39] DANA AUSTIN: I mean, it wasn't like an AA thing. My wife and I we said, let's quit drinking. Okay.

[06:47] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[06:47] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah. Haven't had anything since before we moved to Palmyra, which was seven years ago.

[06:55] SPEAKER B: So.

[06:56] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, so I couldn't help but look up Palmyra. And it's. It's a very small place looks like. And you look like someone who's got. Had really broad experience of the world. So how did you get to Palmyra?

[07:07] DANA AUSTIN: Our son went to UTA, which is in.

[07:10] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, okay, close.

[07:11] DANA AUSTIN: And checked all the boxes. I see. You know, it's beautiful, beautiful place. We're in Lake Monticello.

[07:20] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[07:21] DANA AUSTIN: You know, Palmyra. One of my doctors said, yep, that's the Yankee containment. Okay. And so close by the University of Virginia Health Centers and they're all over the place.

[07:46] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, I see.

[07:47] DANA AUSTIN: It's like two minutes away.

[07:49] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Fantastic.

[07:50] DANA AUSTIN: It's, you know, that's great. And of course, being in a college.

[07:55] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Town, there's all kinds of stuff going on, right? I live in one of those, too.

[08:02] SPEAKER B: So.

[08:04] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So can you tell me about your Indian grandson or excuse me son-in-law? Sorry, sorry.

[08:09] SPEAKER B: Sure. Yeah.

[08:10] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: How did that happen? And did you rearrange marriage in any way?

[08:14] DANA AUSTIN: They were both about to give up.

[08:18] SPEAKER B: On.

[08:20] DANA AUSTIN: Trying to find somebody online.

[08:22] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I see. Okay.

[08:23] DANA AUSTIN: My daughter said, this is the last time. And they really, really pitted off. Yeah, yeah. They're both older. Daughter's gonna be 50 in #####.

[08:37] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[08:38] DANA AUSTIN: Her youngest is nine, certainly 10, the eldest is 13. So they have three granddaughters.

[08:47] SPEAKER B: Yeah. And.

[08:51] DANA AUSTIN: He did it the right way. It took him about six years. to become a United States citizen.

[08:59] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I see.

[09:01] DANA AUSTIN: Only marginal sympathy for people who jump across the border, the exception being asylum seekers, getting away from evil social government gangs.

[09:20] SPEAKER B: Right.

[09:21] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: All the most terrible things, I guess.

[09:22] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, all the most terrible things. But it's hard to tell who's telling the truth, who isn't. So my first idea about that is since we still have to register for the draft and we can call.

[09:38] SPEAKER B: The.

[09:39] DANA AUSTIN: Immigration, a national emergency, two bad lawyers, I think we should have 2,000 lawyers and 500 judges. who alternate through and talk to each other.

[09:54] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Are you saying, in other words, that your view is that part of the problem is a volume problem? So we'd actually just enlist them to do it?

[10:02] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, that's interesting. And then there's the people who speak as violence. You know, I'm not sure anybody's going to go for the 2000 lawyers, but the least they can do is Welcome them in, use an ankle bracelet.

[10:25] SPEAKER B: And.

[10:25] DANA AUSTIN: Get to them as soon as possible.

[10:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Right, it does holding anybody anywhere indefinitely just seems terribly wrong. So can I ask you, there's some struggle in some of the things that you're talking about. Do you get relief from your music? Or is it, yeah, tell me about it. What does it mean in your life? What's the role it plays in your life?

[10:53] DANA AUSTIN: Well, both my parents were musicians. My mother piano forte at the New England Conservatory and my father, Bacharach, he was actually in Oklahoma City and Tulsa. And my children were both musicians. I just call myself a singer-songwriter. And, you know, so I've always had music about it.

[11:26] SPEAKER B: So.

[11:29] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I'm just impressed that you're as serious as, as you say that you are. I mean, in terms of putting stuff up on YouTube and so on, so like, this is not just a little hobby on the side. It's. it's got a bigger role in your life.

[11:38] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, I've done very little recording well, a while, but I do have some fun with silly songs.

[11:54] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[11:54] DANA AUSTIN: After the 2016 election, I wrote a A song. Are you familiar with the phrase blowin' in the sunshine up there?

[12:09] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yes.

[12:09] DANA AUSTIN: That's the name of the song. And it's so funny because liberal people think I'm making fun of the Republicans.

[12:20] SPEAKER B: And.

[12:23] DANA AUSTIN: More conservative people think I'm making fun of the Democrats. So, you know, win-win.

[12:29] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: You either win both ways or lose both ways, depending on how.

[12:32] DANA AUSTIN: But, you know, one of the lines that have given it away. Less than half the Nations voters went and won the big prize.

[12:43] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[12:43] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: There you go. There you go. Okay, so they've got this little sign that says we're supposed to click next.

[12:49] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[12:50] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, so let's just see if they've got anything for us here. We've got the bio.

[12:55] DANA AUSTIN: Conversation starters, we read the bio as written.

[12:59] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, is there anything in my bio that you'd like to know more about?

[13:05] DANA AUSTIN: Well, I'm guessing you're quite the extrovert.

[13:10] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: With your probably you can see.

[13:13] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, and I'm not it. I'm pretty much introvert, and you're out, you know, playing in the bars.

[13:21] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[13:23] DANA AUSTIN: But you're very alone. you're on stage, you really are. Oh, that's interesting.

[13:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: What an interesting thing to say. I guess that's right. Yeah.

[13:31] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[13:31] DANA AUSTIN: So, yeah, you're a little bubble. So that's that part. But I'm curious what got you started on your great amount of entertainment.

[13:49] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, my parents. I would say is what got me started on all the entertaining. I think they were both raised in households that did it themselves, but then in particular, so my dad was an economist and his career, the big part of his career was in the 50s and 60s, and that was a period where the United States was out there really trying to help people. So, and my father had, he'd been in World War II and he really came back with a sense of just of service, of wanting to continue his service.

[14:21] DANA AUSTIN: Which the curiosity and some people were both.

[14:25] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: He was in the Philippines, in the Army Corps of Engineers, making airstrips. So I think, you know, not in the worst of it, but certainly served for some years.

[14:35] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[14:36] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So came back, got a PhD in economics actually at MIT, coincidentally, which is where, I'm sorry, which is where I work now. And he As I said, he had this ethic of service. So for about 20 years in my parents' marriage, they moved every two years, mostly hopping around the world from his posting to posting. And when you're out there, even if you're just an economist, like you're not actually the ambassador, they were in these relatively small communities of Americans abroad. And so throwing a party was what you had to do. I mean, it was also kind of kind of the 1960s cocktail party sort of world.

[15:15] DANA AUSTIN: And everybody smoked cigarettes.

[15:17] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Well, not only that, okay Dana, that's really funny. So when I was small, these parties were so exciting and my mother would put on a pretty dress and it was all very thrilling to me as a little girl. But I distinctly remember that among my several jobs was they had a particular beautiful container that went on the table that I was supposed to restock with cigarettes before every party. at the dinner table. Oh, my God.

[15:41] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[15:42] DANA AUSTIN: On our honeymoon year, which was 19, 1984, 45 years.

[15:51] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah.

[15:52] DANA AUSTIN: When we went to Aruba, you know, used to the large yes of the, the attendance at our, our wedding, went to Aruba and. And you still smoked, aren't you?

[16:06] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: On the plane, right?

[16:07] SPEAKER B: The whole way.

[16:08] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Everybody's smoking all the time. Yeah, it's amazing. My mother used to smoke with me in the car, all the windows closed. It all seemed like the most normal thing in the world.

[16:17] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[16:17] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, I think One Small Step wants us to get a little more serious now, because the next thing is, could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[16:28] DANA AUSTIN: Sure. I'll go with this. My best friend from Marine Corps came to visit us in Northern Virginia with his daughter, except that she was transitioning and she was now going by Jenny, which, you know, it's fine with me. and a person two doors down from my office figured to talk to the Marine first about transgender. So she came in and I think I know where you're going with this conversation. I'm just fine with it. And since you're just starting, maybe you can talk to my my friend, Jenny, can get you guys together.

[17:30] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[17:31] DANA AUSTIN: Her dropping the drop, and I'm glad you are supported.

[17:37] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[17:37] DANA AUSTIN: Well, she had chosen the name Jenny, too.

[17:42] SPEAKER B: Oh.

[17:44] DANA AUSTIN: And she was like all flustered, you know, Jenny V. Jenny, my older brother, Daryl.

[17:51] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[17:51] DANA AUSTIN: You know, so, you know, there's that. That's, I guess, kind of a liberal point of view. I'm not adamantly against immigration, but again, my son-in-law, you know, did it the right way, and it's not easy.

[18:10] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[18:10] DANA AUSTIN: It's not easy. Let's see. What other weird things are there?

[18:20] SPEAKER B: I.

[18:23] DANA AUSTIN: I guess fiscally very conservative. I'm a batch by a national bill. It's finally exceeded apparently our gross domestic product.

[18:38] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: You can't even look at the number, right? Geez, yeah.

[18:42] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[18:44] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I actually think that you'd get a lot of Americans to agree about that. It's just maybe differing on what you would do about it.

[18:50] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, for sure. For sure. I do think that Biden was pretty much of a disaster as a president. And then both Harris and Trump scared the heck out of me for different reasons. And we really need a viable third party. That's, you know, my main political view. I voted for Chase all over the libertarian can't date. Well, you just threw your vote away. Well, I don't think so. And libertarians are getting elected to lower offices hither and very often just, you know, sitting County offices, but.

[19:35] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[19:35] DANA AUSTIN: You know, starting after Musk and Trump had their little spat, Elon Musk founded the American Party.

[19:50] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[19:51] DANA AUSTIN: Which.

[19:54] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Doesn'T seem to be working exactly, at least not yet. I mean, in other words, there's only so much that money can do, right? I think it has to come up from the ground as well if he wants that to work.

[20:06] SPEAKER B: Right.

[20:07] DANA AUSTIN: So we will see what happens. So that's just a bit I was raised as a class liberal.

[20:18] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[20:19] DANA AUSTIN: I grew up in the, it wasn't unitarian reverse, it was just unitarian.

[20:27] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[20:28] DANA AUSTIN: And I was, they had, I was young.

[20:33] SPEAKER B: And.

[20:37] DANA AUSTIN: We were, we had the liberal religious youth as an organization. And our den mother, so to speak, remained a dear friend of mine through my adult life. And she only died a few years ago. person kept in touch with me. And there's kind of a funny story along that because I tell people, well, I told you about the time I dated a 15 year old. Well, what had happened was her daughter had been, oh, by the way, I'm not gonna go to the prom with you from, you know, with the boy she was gonna go to the prom with. and her mother called me and said, there's tears everywhere. Would you take her to the junior prom?

[21:28] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[21:31] DANA AUSTIN: Marilyn, who wasn't my wife at that point.

[21:33] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[21:36] DANA AUSTIN: You know, oh, absolutely. I've never been to any proms when I was, you know, when I was in school where they would have one.

[21:51] SPEAKER B: And.

[21:54] DANA AUSTIN: I talked to my mother. Oh yeah, absolutely.

[22:00] SPEAKER B: So.

[22:03] DANA AUSTIN: I got a limo, which I, you know, on the GI Bill, I can barely afford it.

[22:09] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: But it was the right thing for the moment. That's perfect.

[22:12] DANA AUSTIN: It was fun. the whole evening except for I took her to a very fancy restaurant in State College. I grew up in the Penn State arena. And I thought, well, I'll take her to Toftrees. There won't be any of the other high school kids. Well, of course it was packed with all the... There were many works, you know.

[22:38] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[22:41] DANA AUSTIN: And then after, after dinner, of course, during dinner, I ordered of Scottish.

[22:51] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[22:52] DANA AUSTIN: And we called them waitresses back then. The server, you know, kind of looked at me, kind of received some ID. And so my license and I was 24.

[23:08] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[23:09] DANA AUSTIN: Then she really... Okay, so we went to the prom and the other thing that didn't occur to me was that it hadn't been that long since I graduated from high school.

[23:25] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yes.

[23:25] DANA AUSTIN: So the teachers, the administrators... Oh, they still recognize you.

[23:29] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, no.

[23:34] DANA AUSTIN: And Scotty, what's her name? You're kidding. You know, I'm dating Dana Austin. He was green and he was 24 years old. So, yeah, I wasn't exactly the eligible, but.

[23:54] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: That's amazing. What a funny story. Amazing. So maybe I should do my political values, whatever. So I will just say, you intuited this when you said that I was extroverted. I'm very connected to people. And when I went to our youngest son's graduation this spring, there was a phrase from the valedictorian that I thought, wow, I just love that sentence. So the sentence is, Mutual aid is our most perfect tool. And I really love that because I experience it in my life. It's the way I run my family. We're not imposing on each other. We're just all, if everybody's helping each other a little more than they have to, what a fantastic system you get, right? So I understand that's a kind of perhaps a naive way to go into the world, but I just feel as as if that is my kind of approach. Because of the background that I told you about being abroad so much as a kid, I've just been conscious. I mean, I haven't actually traveled all that much as an adult, but I'm just conscious. I know that most people in America haven't had that experience. So just my growing up, I was completely comfortable with the idea that People didn't look like me, they didn't sound like me, they ate different things. And so I've always thought that it was actually one of America's glories that it was able to weave all these cultures together. You know, like when you go to the movies and you see the credits roll and their names from everywhere and they're all working on the same project, that always feels like America to me. I love that. But of course, that does, I mean, to make that work, the idea of America as this idea and this set of values that we all sign on to, you're like, you have to push that pretty hard if you're going to have people coming from different backgrounds. We have to share that. And I do feel as if the country doesn't know how to do that very well now. We don't even know how to educate people for that now. Does that make sense to you?

[26:07] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, it really does. Our neighborhood is very much, you know, help each other do stuff. Last year, I have 275 foot culvert.

[26:22] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, you do? Has there ever been one? Good God, that's huge.

[26:26] DANA AUSTIN: An 18 inch pipe comes in at the top of my driveway.

[26:31] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[26:32] DANA AUSTIN: And again, our yard, drop, you know, 60 feet from the.

[26:37] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[26:38] DANA AUSTIN: To the.

[26:39] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So this is just trying to. To stop erosion.

[26:41] SPEAKER B: Right?

[26:42] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Is that the idea?

[26:43] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, that's sort of the idea. Plus, you know, to keep, you know, flooding of.

[26:50] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[26:50] DANA AUSTIN: Palmyra to a minute.

[26:51] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yes.

[26:52] DANA AUSTIN: Okay, so.

[26:54] SPEAKER B: But.

[26:56] DANA AUSTIN: Last year we had, um, Tail end of the tropical storm.

[27:00] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: No problem.

[27:01] DANA AUSTIN: No problem. Tail end of another storm. No problem.

[27:07] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[27:07] DANA AUSTIN: Two and a half inches of rain. 30 minutes.

[27:12] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: 30 minutes.

[27:13] DANA AUSTIN: It's just washed it out. One of those. The clouds are going to sit there.

[27:20] SPEAKER B: Yeah. And. Yeah.

[27:22] DANA AUSTIN: And I mean that what was coming through the pipe was moving. you know, 20-25 pound rock.

[27:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Of course, sure. Does that mean that then you had no driveway after that? I mean, did it rip it out?

[27:34] DANA AUSTIN: Well, I can't picture that. It stayed within the culvert, which runs along our driveway, but it really made a mess of it and then down farther. So I'm still, I'm just finishing up rebuilding the the upper part of the Culvert. I wanted to do it so I wouldn't have to worry about it again in my life. Yeah, it's taken quite a while. And, you know, the neighbors, you know.

[28:05] SPEAKER B: Look.

[28:07] DANA AUSTIN: I'm sure when I get it done, they won't hate me anymore, but it's been, you know, yeah, to do that, so. And what do you think?

[28:19] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: They have a question here that I think would actually really fit for you because I think that you suggested that there's a gap between where you are now and how you grew up in terms of your political philosophy. So how did that happen?

[28:37] DANA AUSTIN: I probably just wasn't as aware of work when I was 13, 14, 15.

[28:46] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[28:46] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[28:47] DANA AUSTIN: My, my parents got divorced. You couldn't at that time get a contested divorce in Pennsylvania.

[28:54] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay.

[28:55] DANA AUSTIN: So my mother packed up all her books and shipped them to Oklahoma. We went to Oklahoma with our two cats. That's where her people are from.

[29:05] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I see. Okay.

[29:07] SPEAKER B: And.

[29:09] DANA AUSTIN: We lived with my grandmother and after a fairly short time, her eldest brother, a house he owned for rent, older people moved out and he let us stay in that house. That was nice. So, you know, it was a Will Rogers Memorial Senior High School. I went to Grover Cleveland for ninth grade and then I started at Will Rogers Assembly. It started with a procession of the United States flag and Oklahoma flag. okay, down the aisle, which was also followed then across the stage. So the, you know, the flags were on the correct sides. And that was followed by a pledge of allegiance, of course, which was followed by the Lord's Prayer, which, you know, the whole thing. I mean, we did the Lord's Prayer. in school until I was in, like, the second grade.

[30:33] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[30:36] DANA AUSTIN: But it was, it was just very different. And the one assembly, the vice principal was, was giving a speech, and he was so proud of the, the integration that they, you know, now had a real Rogers. And he, he asked the black students to stand up and be recognized. Now here I am in, you know, almost 3, 000 students. It's a very, very big school. The 12 black people stood up.

[31:07] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, my God.

[31:08] DANA AUSTIN: The things.

[31:10] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah.

[31:11] DANA AUSTIN: So that was in Tulsa. And my father was very aware of the, the horrible right that took place.

[31:21] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yes, of course. Right. We've all come now to learn about it, but. didn't know about it then mostly.

[31:26] DANA AUSTIN: Not until my father mentioned it and I, you know, looked at a heat. Yeah, you can give a lot of detail when I read the key.

[31:32] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah.

[31:33] DANA AUSTIN: I was mortified.

[31:37] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[31:37] DANA AUSTIN: Anyway, so.

[31:38] SPEAKER B: But.

[31:38] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, so how do you get from that? So you've got the unitarians, you've got this experience in Oklahoma City. How do you get to libertarian?

[31:48] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[31:51] DANA AUSTIN: My wife and I both registered Republican, so we could vote against Ronald Reagan twice. We never changed. That isn't what made me more conservative. But, you know, it's just so I get to see a lot of the stuff coming from Wright Field. I read both, you know, liberal and conservative.

[32:24] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Me too. Me too. I think it's really important to do that.

[32:28] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[32:28] DANA AUSTIN: Between these extremes, the truth does lie. So I think.

[32:37] SPEAKER B: So.

[32:40] DANA AUSTIN: You know, didn't have any. well, I'm a rotary American. I served in the military.

[32:49] SPEAKER B: Right.

[32:50] DANA AUSTIN: And also, you know, worked in, and, you know, both of those places you take pledge to, you know, defend the Constitution.

[33:00] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Of course.

[33:01] DANA AUSTIN: And, you know, some people forget they took that pledge.

[33:06] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah. so. But.

[33:10] DANA AUSTIN: And that.

[33:11] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Did you like being. Did you like being in the. In the Army? Did you like anything about being a sergeant?

[33:17] DANA AUSTIN: Yes, very much. Well, I had. I had friends, and one of my friends had a. An uncle who. Who had a farm, and we could go. We could go hunting for coyote and dove and then we go into the woods. for squirrels. You know, now I can see your earrings. There we go. Wonderful. And, you know, so it was a lot of togetherness with my friends in the Marine Corps.

[33:57] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Do you still know any of them? Are they still part of your life at all?

[34:02] DANA AUSTIN: Two of them. My, my friend, Jen, of course, I'm.

[34:07] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yes, right, right.

[34:08] DANA AUSTIN: We, we've been in touch all our lives, practically, since, since Marine Corps and another, another fellow, when we were on rifle range qualifying in boot camp.

[34:28] SPEAKER B: Camp.

[34:28] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, we were both excellent, excellent Marksman.

[34:33] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, I see.

[34:34] DANA AUSTIN: You know, this, like, getting every point by, you know, two or three points out of 250.

[34:41] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Well, you've been, you've been shooting for a decade already at that point, right?

[34:45] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, a little more. And so they would give us extra ammunition and.

[34:53] SPEAKER B: Oh.

[34:53] DANA AUSTIN: Number three, you know, to, you know, bang, bullseye, you know, who couldn't really shoot, you know, so we might have, you know, five extra arounds. So, you know, that was kind of neat. Different level of responsibility, you know.

[35:13] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[35:13] DANA AUSTIN: And I got out of boot camp and, and did my, the rest of my three years. Cambridge, Cambridge, poison water.

[35:22] SPEAKER B: And.

[35:24] DANA AUSTIN: A couple of my friends with whom I kept in touch until they died had the some, you know, both there are many Cambridge, related illnesses.

[35:42] SPEAKER B: Among.

[35:42] DANA AUSTIN: Them, the largest cluster of male breast cancer.

[35:48] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, my God. Really?

[35:49] DANA AUSTIN: Oh, yeah. There's a book called trust betrayed, and it goes into the detail.

[35:55] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Terrible.

[35:56] DANA AUSTIN: The military knew about it. Knew about it. Knew about it since, you know, for 20 years before I got there.

[36:07] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Wait, then they brought you there while they knew that it was so poisoned?

[36:11] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[36:11] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, my God.

[36:12] DANA AUSTIN: So there are 100. thousands of people who, you know, are affected by it. If you look at the Camp Legion's, you know, chemical water or something along those lines.

[36:24] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, okay, I will.

[36:28] DANA AUSTIN: So I haven't gotten any of the illnesses yet. One of my friends, he was a family corn that we called him. He was in the 80s. corn, corn go with.

[36:41] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, sure.

[36:42] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[36:43] DANA AUSTIN: He's got fourth stage kidney cancer.

[36:47] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh my God. Oh, I'm so sorry.

[36:49] DANA AUSTIN: Nothing about metastasis yet. So, you know, we'll see across our fingers pray a little.

[36:59] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Indeed. So don't want, don't want cancer of the organs down there at all.

[37:04] DANA AUSTIN: Well, I'm dominated by I'm in a conversation. So let's.

[37:09] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, so here's a question I could answer for you. I was thinking about these questions the other night. It says, was there a moment you witnessed or experienced that most influenced your political beliefs? And I would say Watergate, because I was 10. And my parents were, I mean, like many people, do you remember, it was all televised? And it was a very hot summer and our little black and white TV was on the whole time. Everybody was watching every minute of it because it was so riveting. And I guess, so I was the youngest child of parents who grew up really, you know, who were very idealistic in the way of the greatest generation. I mean, they really thought that, you know, sort of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington kind of idealism and they raised me that way. And of course, Watergate was a pretty terrible violation of that. But for me, actually, what that whole thing taught me was not that everything's corrupt, but rather somebody does something that bad, then you get him out of office and then you can make things better and proceed again. So, I mean, of course, I suppose we all tend to take the lessons that reinforce our pre-existing views. But for me, it was, I don't know, how can I put it? Patriotic. It was like, this is how it's supposed to work. It's a self-correcting system, and that's what we get in a democracy, and the people will prevail, and then we're off on a right track again. Now, you know, never mind all the politics that immediately followed, but I think that that was actually a very important molding factor for me at that age. made me think that government was.

[38:59] SPEAKER B: A.

[38:59] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Force for good, that public service was a high goal, that sort of thing.

[39:06] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah.

[39:06] SPEAKER B: I.

[39:09] DANA AUSTIN: Did not remember seeing a particular thing that might have, helped me drift a little right, but Saigon fell when I was in boot camp.

[39:28] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[39:28] DANA AUSTIN: And it was pretty much a trigger for the drill instructors.

[39:34] SPEAKER B: And.

[39:37] DANA AUSTIN: Well, to make a long story short, there was a lot of aggravation taken out on the recruits. you know, somebody had been injured badly enough to go to sick bay.

[39:51] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Whoa.

[39:51] DANA AUSTIN: You know, wow.

[39:53] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Really? Really?

[39:55] DANA AUSTIN: I fell in the head. You know, I fell in the shower.

[40:00] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Wow.

[40:01] DANA AUSTIN: Would be, you know, had our foot lockers out and formed, you know, the private on in the shower. And then one time, the drone instructor. and it was pretty much the one drill instructor hurt a young man so badly that he forgot to tell him he fell on the head. And, oh, man, it had the fan. It really did.

[40:28] SPEAKER B: And.

[40:30] DANA AUSTIN: There was a court martial, and we testified, and he was posted from staff storage private.

[40:37] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[40:38] DANA AUSTIN: And, and that was. that was pretty much it. His career was over. So that's good.

[40:47] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: That's certainly a, you know, a self-correcting system. Dana, it sounds as if you've been through quite a lot.

[40:53] DANA AUSTIN: Maybe.

[40:54] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah.

[40:58] DANA AUSTIN: I haven't traveled the world as much as you have. Been to Venice and. you know, went around the countries on the other side. That was my husband to India.

[41:12] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: We've done a lot of traveling. My traveling was mostly before I could truly remember it. So we lived in, we were in Pakistan, Bolivia, Colombia, but I was little, little, little. So I have some memories, but not like, and then we went, you know, then we went to eat there or saw that monument. It's really just little school girl kind I think that's the thing.

[41:32] DANA AUSTIN: So, yeah, going to India. Well, for my son-in-law's sister, did you.

[41:37] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Go for the wedding? Oh, for, I see. Okay. A family wedding. I see.

[41:41] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[41:41] DANA AUSTIN: Had everything but the elephants. I, you know, a week-long process.

[41:48] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah.

[41:48] SPEAKER B: And.

[41:51] DANA AUSTIN: So we went, my daughter had two of her three children. One was a toddler and the other was Raven arms.

[42:00] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[42:01] DANA AUSTIN: And I. I've just. I've never seen so much gold. I mean, real, honest to God. Oh, really?

[42:07] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Because it's part of the wedding ceremony.

[42:09] SPEAKER B: Yeah. I see.

[42:10] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I see.

[42:11] DANA AUSTIN: Barya, his sister, had huge amounts of gold earrings.

[42:20] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah.

[42:20] DANA AUSTIN: And she had to wear something over her. head goal, whatever it was, to support them. So.

[42:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: It'S heavy, right? Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.

[42:30] DANA AUSTIN: So it was, it was interesting. There was, and so sometimes it was at the, the bride's home, sometimes at the green home.

[42:40] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[42:42] DANA AUSTIN: Whatever was going on, there were small groups doing things. Then there were huge groups, you know, doing things. But one time, the small group. there was, you know, there were a number of, of women, friends of the family at my son-in-law's mothers. And there was something with the candle, you know, then again, speaking Malian, so I didn't really understand what was going on. As soon as they lit the candle, the toddler, happy birthday. So anyway, it was always interesting. We were there about 10 days or so.

[43:26] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Wow, okay. All right, so I'm seeing that we have six and a half minutes left, which I think because we got started a little late.

[43:33] DANA AUSTIN: Well, they let you go longer.

[43:35] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Do they? Oh, okay.

[43:36] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[43:38] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: But I see that there's this question, so maybe this is too conclude too much of a conclusion, but what Anything that surprised you today? I think that's what I'm supposed to ask you. Anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

[43:53] DANA AUSTIN: Your day in the mountain, I guess, in terms of your political beliefs. It took me a while to realize that the fall of Saigon, it didn't register for a long time, but that was the A really sad political, we could have, you know, overrun North Vietnam despite the Chinese forces, but we didn't. And so, and of course, the troops.

[44:24] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Coming back were so demoralized and treated so terribly.

[44:31] DANA AUSTIN: And again, that was the more liberal people who did that.

[44:37] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[44:37] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So I know, I know.

[44:38] DANA AUSTIN: And it was ugly. And I think that probably had something.

[44:41] SPEAKER B: To do with it. Yeah.

[44:43] DANA AUSTIN: Older friends who were in Vietnam didn't, didn't lose any. And, yeah, it was awful for returning soldiers.

[44:53] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[44:58] DANA AUSTIN: Oh, that was five in the morning again.

[45:00] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, five minutes. Yeah, that's. An unpleasant sound, but anyway.

[45:07] DANA AUSTIN: I think we don't have any problem going for an extra five or 10 minutes. That was the way it worked with when I was having a conversation with another person.

[45:20] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: I see. So it's what ends in five minutes is the recording. So we could keep talking after that.

[45:26] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, maybe that's it.

[45:28] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So I'll tell you what surprised me. It surprised me that you would be so open with me so quickly about your bipolar situation. I thought that was very touching.

[45:38] DANA AUSTIN: Well, thank you.

[45:39] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[45:41] DANA AUSTIN: It just explains so much about me.

[45:44] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[45:45] DANA AUSTIN: And, you know, the way I... And.

[45:47] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: To get the diagnosis so late in life and then just sort of, you must have to sort of reassess everything backwards, right?

[45:53] SPEAKER B: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

[46:04] DANA AUSTIN: You know, I guess I'm still processing it after 12 years.

[46:09] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[46:11] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: So they would like us to ask, what gives you hope for the future?

[46:18] DANA AUSTIN: Well, the American people can be a little gullible, but they're not stupid. And so, you know, right now, the pendulum is swung from left to right. But, you know, I think it'll. It'll stop in some sensible place. I hope it will.

[46:42] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[46:42] DANA AUSTIN: As a character in a series. books that my wife likes. Even though the moment was bad, she'd cross herself and she said the Catholics have all the best hands.

[47:01] SPEAKER B: So.

[47:03] DANA AUSTIN: That was that. If you're interested in finding my my YouTube stuff.

[47:14] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Oh, yeah, I'd like to.

[47:17] DANA AUSTIN: You could probably. I think chat stays open. I could probably send you a link. But the easiest thing, if there's. Since there's nothing else like it, I don't think you'd be just kind of saying Dana Austin.

[47:31] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay. There you go.

[47:32] DANA AUSTIN: W-O-M-B. W-O-M-B. Boom.

[47:36] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Right.

[47:37] SPEAKER B: That.

[47:38] DANA AUSTIN: That is where I do my fake broadcast on the anchor for WOMB news. And I, you know, that's the silly stuff I have there. And I won't give anything away.

[47:53] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: That's pretty entertaining, Dana.

[47:55] DANA AUSTIN: That's pretty entertaining. Yeah, that's fun.

[47:59] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: You know, I think I can't get to the end of this without asking you what in fact what is your favorite kind of pie?

[48:09] DANA AUSTIN: I'm pretty much a cheesecake person.

[48:12] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Cheesecake, okay.

[48:14] DANA AUSTIN: Yeah, New York.

[48:15] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, fair enough. New York style. All right. I honestly feel as if the world contains quite a lot of bad pie. So I make it my business not only to make a lot of pie, but I actually also teach to make pie? Because I really feel this is one of the, it's not quite a lost art, but what I've come to see from teaching people is, well, let's see, that it's basically impossible to learn from a cookbook, but quite easy to learn from a person. Hence the expression easy as pie, which, you know, there are lots of people who have anxiety about pastry. Oh, I can't do that. I've never been. but easy as pie is in the language. So unless it's ironic, you know, how does that, what is that from? So what I've come to understand is there is one basic mistake everybody makes, which is over mixing. They want to mix the butter and the flour and the water together till it's like Play-Doh. But if you do that, it will be inedible. It will, you'll make a nice looking pie before you cook it, but it'll be so tough. So you need somebody standing over your shoulder. older saying, Stop mixing. Stop, stop it, stop it. Because even the rolling out process is also a mixing process. So you have to stop way before you think. And it's so pleasing because I can take someone who really has never made a successful pie into someone who has. And in one lesson, it's not because I'm such a genius, it's just, it is in fact easy as pie. Just need someone to give you the confidence that, yeah, that looks terribly raggedy and it will never work. It's going to work.

[49:51] DANA AUSTIN: I promise. Yeah, it's the same thing with mixing concrete. People tend to put too much water. Oh, no, you don't keep mixing, you know, wheelbarrow, keep mixing with it. Yeah, yeah. It'll get to the right.

[50:08] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Just don't give up, right? Don't give up. Well, maybe, Dana, maybe that's a good place on that note. for the nation, don't give up.

[50:17] DANA AUSTIN: Okay. Well, it was great talking to you.

[50:21] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Really, it's great talking to you, too.

[50:24] DANA AUSTIN: And one thing I'm finding out as these discussions go, I'm a bit more liberal than that little, you know, thing.

[50:32] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, yeah.

[50:33] DANA AUSTIN: I have more tolerance for a great many things. So, yeah.

[50:38] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Well, having more tolerance is probably what we all have to do. Right. Because having less is not working.

[50:46] DANA AUSTIN: Civil discussions, find out more about other people.

[50:51] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Okay, well Dana, thank you so much. This was really, really fun. I appreciate your being so open with me and I had a great time.

[51:01] DANA AUSTIN: Well, I did too. Okay. see if they transcribe our meat. Well, we'll see on one of the one of mine with another person. I've only done this three times now, so. Anyway.

[51:18] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Okay, great.

[51:20] DANA AUSTIN: Sign off.

[51:20] MARTHA SIENIEWICZ: Thank you. Bye.

[51:22] DANA AUSTIN: Bye.