Diana Jordan and Ken Soleyn

[00:02] KEN SOLEYN: I grew up outside of Chicago. I have one sister. I describe myself as socially progressive Christian. I am single. I grew up with a father who is a minister and social activist, which made a huge impact on my life. I am an activist for disability equity and social justice. I have cerebral palsy, which mildly affects my speech and gait. I'm an actor, solo artist, theater filmmaker and creative cultural change maker. My most important role is being an aunt to my two nephews.

[00:45] SPEAKER B: So.

[00:47] KEN SOLEYN: What motivated you to join this group and have these have these discussions, the one small step discussions?

[00:58] DIANA JORDAN: I actually, you know, I was working in the Tonight Show and that's Tony, the actor Tony, not Tony Curtis.

[01:12] SPEAKER B: Oh.

[01:14] DIANA JORDAN: Gosh, I can't think of his last name. He was talking and that's what he was talking about it. and I was like, this sounds really cool. I really love meeting people who are different, who have different opinions. I mean, I do love the work in diversity and equity, and I think it's really important to have conversations, thoughtful conversations with people who may think different from you, but yeah, I think we all have a similarity of how we want to live our lives. So that's what that does for me. It sounds like a really cool opportunity. How about you? Yeah, I think.

[02:06] KEN SOLEYN: I've always liked to, you know, meet people and have discussions. In my career, I went to like a community college in Brooklyn. and then I tried another year of college, but it really didn't work out for me.

[02:25] SPEAKER B: So.

[02:27] KEN SOLEYN: You know, eventually I went to work as a lab technician and kind of worked my way up to getting into sales. And I ended up working for GE. And with GE, I was able to.

[02:40] SPEAKER B: Travel.

[02:42] KEN SOLEYN: All across the US and overseas. I was able to go to a lot of different countries, like in Europe, Asia, like I went to Japan, China, India. So having that amount of travel and having to, like, negotiate and work with people on a wide basis, you know, I found like we are more alike and we have differences, but it's the way it is today. I feel there's inequity in the system in that working people and that's where I come from, basically working people. It really should be a country that if you're a working person, you should be able to, you know, eat nutritious food, have a roof over your head, have the ability to send your kids to school and study and, but you know, get into other things like music, art. And I don't see why we can't have a good life, you know, but I think the one detractor against that is, well, it's really like this big money that's trying to control everything. that seems to be the trend today. You know, I don't know what your feelings are on it.

[04:11] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, no, I mean, I am very, you know, I grew up, like I said, you know, my dad is that after living in '92, you know, I grew up hearing about social justice. That was always kind of a part of my daily life and the daily conversation I would have with my dad, even as a teenager, when I felt things that I felt were in jest and hating to my dad. So yeah, I do think everyone should have the right to have a good life and live a good life. But I didn't think everyone does. And I, it often feels like at a time right now, it's also harder, you know, to have the things you want because there is inequity in this country. So, yeah.

[05:18] KEN SOLEYN: It seems to me that there was progress made. you know, because I can remember growing up in Brooklyn. The neighborhood I lived in in Brooklyn was called Brownsville. That was the name of the neighborhood, Brownsville. It was in the East New York section of Brooklyn, which was the tough, so you know, like in the summertime, like it is hot now where I live, that today was like 95 degrees. When it was 95 degrees in Brooklyn, you know, we had a ghetto beach day. You know, we turn on the fire hydrant and the police would come or the firemen would come and turn it off because they said, you know, we were wasting water. But it was hot, ain't nobody had air conditioning, you know? And but people still lived, there was crying, there was all kinds of things. you know, that it seems like a lot of stuff is forced down on you when you're in that situation. Like, I can remember, like, the house next to us, we lived in, like, a tenement, but it being on fire, you know, they, you know, raging fire like an inferno. And, you know, the news is sort of like the rumor was that the landlord set it on fire to, you know, just collect the insurance. And then, like, you know, to kind of come out of that situation, a lot of people I knew, you know, succumb to crime, drugs, you know, all kinds of, let's call it distractions in life. My family, they were very much like church-going people. So we used to go to church every Sunday and In fact, I taught Sunday school. So despite being in that type of environment, you know, I feel there are channels, but it takes like a lot of mental discipline and sticking with it. And you gotta fight sometime too.

[07:28] DIANA JORDAN: Well, and I have, you know, I mean, I grew up, you know, I kind of feel I grew up on this. Kind of idyllic. I grew up in Oak Park, Illinois, outside of Chicago. I grew up in a neighborhood that.

[07:47] SPEAKER B: Had.

[07:49] DIANA JORDAN: Almost every house had at least four kids. And we really had two, but, you know, living like at any one time, there were a block party with 70 kids. And we were the only black family in the neighborhood. so I grew up as one of the only black families. I mean, that was like my childhood. But very, you know, very middle class. My upbringing was very middle class, very, you know, almost all the, almost all the, that has to do with them, like, two parent families, almost all, you know, not that there wasn't divorce, but it was, you know, pretty rare. And, you know, I'm still in touch with a lot of the magic of Facebook, you know, I'm feeling that. But, yeah, I think, you know, my family was very, Education was a big part of my family. No, I mean, it wasn't, will I go to college? It was, where are you going to college? Yeah, that was, but my great uncles were doctors. So, education on both sides of my family were just, it was kind of expected, you know? And I did, and I don't regret it, but there were just things I think there was a, you can see that my, the generations after my generation, my younger, my cousin kids and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, we, we were told the American Dream was not easy for.

[09:47] SPEAKER B: Us.

[09:51] DIANA JORDAN: But it was possible. It was not, I always knew that it was different to be black in America. And I've known that. You know, when people would talk about, even in school, when people would say things, they'd be like, yeah, but that's, yeah, one thing I remember in the fourth grade and my fourth grade teacher thinking about indigenous ties and say, yes, me, the white man brought these diseases. I'd be like, well, not me. So, you know.

[10:29] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[10:30] DIANA JORDAN: So I remember.

[10:31] KEN SOLEYN: Well, you know, I. I think what I'm seeing today, especially, like, now you're seeing a lot of backlash, let's call it, or. Or against immigrants. and, you know, being an immigrant myself and growing up in, in, in, like, when I went to grade school and middle school, it was like, I would say about 95% black.

[11:05] DIANA JORDAN: Of course.

[11:07] KEN SOLEYN: We had some Hispanic and our people were Indian. they were brought over to the Caribbean as indentured servants. And then, you know, as they kind of work, they saved a little money, bought some land. So they, my grandparents had, like, a four acre farm. You know, when I say a farm now, they had a cow, but they grew their own food and. you know, they would get people to work with them and they have to like just a day worker kind of person to pay and then sell the crops. But sometimes it'd be like a middleman who would like after you've done reaped all the crops and you got your guys to pay, then the middleman would come and say, well, no, you got to take less money. But you had already agreed on the price. So it's the same thing, you know, being cheated from this sort of like, you know, white supremacy, they take advantage of people instead of just giving them a fair shake, you know? And I mean, I work with all kinds of people. One summer I pumped gas, you know, at a gas station. Another year, I worked as a camp counselor and these were kids from like Harlem. They would have, it would be like a grant and they would send them up to the country, you know, upstate New York by a lake. And they would have swimming and sports and, you know, activities. But these were like tough kids, but I had kind of come out of that same mindset, you know? But once you got them out in the country, it was a whole different story. You know, it was being kids, you know, learning how to work with each other and get along. But I've been back then, they didn't have all these distractions like cell phones and all of that kind of stuff, you know. So they had to kind of pay attention because it was a new environment for them. So you learn a lot about people. from that point of view. And I think I've seen that if you look at other countries, even like next door Canada, right, they have a, I've been over there several times because my wife, she has family there, so we go up and visit.

[13:47] SPEAKER B: And.

[13:49] KEN SOLEYN: They have a different outlook to this kind of racial and, you know, they seem to be very acceptance of anyone. It seems like you're more based on your merit, right? Than it is, you know, racial bounds or even religion or anything like that. So, yeah, it's kind of like a thing to aspire to, but the reality and you see it coming back today, you know. So that's, to me, it's a little bit disturbing to see this kind of thing coming back.

[14:30] DIANA JORDAN: Well, yeah, it was, you know, after the 2016 election, you know, I had a friend say to me, I didn't realize how racist our country was. And I just said, well, You could have asked me, but I haven't felt that in 20 or 8 when the president was elected. A lot of the, I used this word, a lot of things were underground, right? A lot of that because it was like, oh, Obama's president, and this is great, wonderful. But, you know, and I use the word cockroach tonight and not describing people, but I think what happened was.

[15:26] SPEAKER B: It.

[15:26] DIANA JORDAN: Wasn'T okay to be open. So a lot of things were underground and seected and, you know, and then in 2016, we had someone who.

[15:43] SPEAKER B: He.

[15:43] DIANA JORDAN: Was very open about saying whatever he wanted to say and made things more okay, you know, was never okay, but when the leader of the country says, well, I can say this, and so I don't think certain things went away, I just think now We have someone who is, doesn't think to mind soaking the fires, you know, and that's what makes me very sad. You know, it's like we, I do think, it does feel like we're going backward in many ways because some of the things I'm hearing about and I'm, you know, I'm in a state where, you know, there's been a lot of stuff going on. I'm in Cali. I mean, you know, so it just.

[16:43] SPEAKER B: Really.

[16:46] DIANA JORDAN: Frightening to me, you know, because this is, you know, it seems like the thing that my dad really fought for to make a better life for his daughters.

[17:00] SPEAKER B: Are.

[17:03] DIANA JORDAN: Kind of going back, you know, that movement, the civil rights people who were in their 30s back then are now at passed on or, you know, on my dad's age, my dad is 92, that legacy that they really fought for, I feel as being, you know, taken away. And that's some of the you know, people of this coming the thing I've always done fascinating is the wrong word. Everyone is an immigrant to this country except for the people who were here originally. The indigenous people are the only people who are not immigrants.

[17:52] SPEAKER B: Right.

[17:52] DIANA JORDAN: They were here. Some people were Most people can go.

[17:57] KEN SOLEYN: Back just to even a couple of generations.

[18:00] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[18:01] DIANA JORDAN: So, I mean, there are people who, I mean, you know, when I was in school, I had a lot of friends who are first generation, you know, our first and our second generation, you know, those, you know, growing up in the 70s, a lot of my friends were first generation, So they'd be now, you know, nearly 50 years later saying, well, this is our, you know, this is us, this is it. And you're an immigrant and to Vail.

[18:37] SPEAKER B: When.

[18:39] DIANA JORDAN: The foundation of the country was people coming here. yeah, I did find that a little bit of a.

[18:51] KEN SOLEYN: What would our. What would our food be like if you didn't have immigrants? Like, there would be, like, no pizza.

[18:58] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[18:58] KEN SOLEYN: No, no Max. No Mexican food, you know, like, no enchiladas, no. No tacos.

[19:04] SPEAKER B: No. Right.

[19:06] DIANA JORDAN: Even the new. I mean, new. I mean, every. Everything from culture to. what we find entertaining to what we wear to.

[19:17] SPEAKER B: Right.

[19:17] KEN SOLEYN: That's what makes it interesting, is to have all of these different cultures and if everybody has a shot. But I think what has happened is that Trump and his followers have used, you know, they created a villain and that villain is, is these immigrants, but it's not the European immigrants, it's the, the Mexican, it's the brown-skinned people.

[19:46] DIANA JORDAN: The one who, you know, yeah. Oh, definitely. So, yeah.

[19:51] KEN SOLEYN: And, and, and it's also like, even a lot of his followers, you know, in these red states, they're the ones that benefit the most from government services and things like that. And I have to say, growing up, you know, we were poor, so we had to, we tried to take advantage and we have to scrimp and save. And, I mean, I have to admit, you know, we got to run a little game sometimes on people to make a little, you know, you got a little hustle, gotta get a little hustle going on and make a little dough, make some money. When I, when I was working at a gas station pumping gas, you know who the the best tippers. It wasn't the rich people. Like if a guy came up in a big fancy car, it was the, it was the working class people. The best tippers were like a plumber that had his like van or someone like that, an electrician or somebody like that. You'd fill up their truck and you know, they'd give you like a $3 tip, but the rich guy might be, he might be lucky to get a quarter.

[20:59] DIANA JORDAN: Wow.

[21:00] KEN SOLEYN: So I learned early on that, I said, you know, these rich people, how come they don't give as good a tip as the working class? But the working class has a mindset to say, this guy's hustling, this boy working in the gas station. And he's hustling, he's working and he has empathy for him. and, and somehow that seems to be missing today, that people with money, they don't seem to have empathy. They don't seem to have feelings for each other. And what they consider the, the people below them, they feel that all these people that don't have as much money and power are below them. I think that's, that's really the Crux of it and. this man Trump is empowered that way of thinking and people are brainwashed to think it's right.

[22:01] DIANA JORDAN: I'm always curious to, you know, because I'm definitely see that and I've seen that and it's really interesting to, not interesting, the wrong word, but how much assumptions people make to me or I remember one day I'm a speaker and I was working with I had a former speaking manager who after the George Floyd tragedy said, well, Obama had eight years to get rid of the race of them. What happened? I was like, well, You know.

[22:53] SPEAKER B: And.

[22:53] DIANA JORDAN: A, he was the president, that wasn't his job, and B, you know, racism is not anything new, and I think there's, I sometimes feel like because of the way it's not like it was years ago, and the ways we have come a long way, and we've had a lot of progress.

[23:16] SPEAKER B: But.

[23:19] DIANA JORDAN: Many of the examples are one-offs. You know, it's like, yeah, Kamala Harris is President of the United States. That's great. But how many female Black presidents have we had? You know, we do have female senators, and we do have senators of color But how many do we actually have when it comes to the percentages? And we don't necessarily have, you know, since the pandemic has been made, but if that pandemic is equitable, I don't know how it feels that it is. You know, there are good examples, and that'd be great. but there's a majority is has a certain look, you know? Oh, yeah.

[24:17] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[24:17] KEN SOLEYN: The, I, I feel like, regardless of anything, you're like, one of the questions that when I was working with kids, I always asked is because I worked with some kindergarten kids, and one of the things I noticed with kindergarten kids is, and this is kids of different races like Chinese, Indian, white, black, you put them together, they all seem to get along. So one of my questions is that, is that, is racism and prejudice something they learn? as time goes on or we all born with this kind of feeling or is it in our DNA? Are we born with this or is it something we learn? I happen to think it's something we learn because I observe kindergarten kids and they're human beings. They seem to get along, right? There was nothing to they don't know about prejudice. They didn't learn about prejudice. So I think it's conditioned over time. I think it's something that the culture.

[25:36] SPEAKER B: And.

[25:39] KEN SOLEYN: Something that's conditioned and you have to make strides to understand that to reverse it. So I think this is where education and arts is a great equalizer as well because like you can tell a story in a three-minute song, for example. You know, if you could think of like any kind of music, like gospel.

[26:05] DIANA JORDAN: Or something.

[26:07] KEN SOLEYN: Can give you a lesson or a story or even if there's no words, you know, or dance. And I think this is what I see is kind of being lost now. it just seems that they want to make every, they want to make America into this, like, big kind of factory. Everybody looks the same. And, you know, they stamp out cars or whatever along some kind of assembly line. And, and, and, and these rich guys make more and more and more and more money.

[26:45] SPEAKER B: Well.

[26:47] DIANA JORDAN: I always found it interesting that you know, the principles and the values of MAGA tend to be antithetical to what America values are, in my opinion. Yeah, because when we're talking about them, when you hear Make America Great Again, what does that really mean? Because it looks like To me, is white privilege and rat superiority and everything like that.

[27:22] SPEAKER B: That.

[27:24] DIANA JORDAN: Seems to me what it is. Because I don't see a lot of diverse faces in the Make America Great Again. I see we want to keep these people out. We're gonna move these people, even though we're not only going to move them, We are going to possibly go into neighborhoods and take them out because, you know, they're all, they all look alike, and they're all this, you know. And to me, that doesn't seem to look like the American values of how is this, how is that making America great again.

[28:17] KEN SOLEYN: I thought in World War II we fought against America fought against the Nazis, right?

[28:23] DIANA JORDAN: Exactly.

[28:26] KEN SOLEYN: Demonizing in the case of the Nazis, they demonized the Jews and gypsies and even people with handicaps and things like that. so how, you know, what is the virtue in that, you know?

[28:43] SPEAKER B: Right.

[28:44] KEN SOLEYN: But, you know, having said that, like, you, you have to have, like, kind of an inner strength to it. And sometimes, sometimes you just can't sit around and say, well, things are falling apart in this country. You know, you me myself, I wanna do some things. But what I've done is they're more peaceful things. I belong to the Sierra Club and hiking and snowshoeing. I live in New Hampshire, which is in the wintertime gets pretty cold up here. But I go up to the mountains and snowshoe and get around like that.

[29:30] SPEAKER B: I like.

[29:31] KEN SOLEYN: I like the outdoors. And I'm a kid who grew up, you know, in the inner city.

[29:35] SPEAKER B: Right.

[29:36] KEN SOLEYN: Actually, my job had a location to move me, and it required living in the Boston area. And the housing around Boston was too expensive, but you could. You could live up in New Hampshire. So now I'm retired, so I'm kind of doing a bit of volunteer work. I did some volunteer work at a middle school. It was just in tutoring kids in math and science. That's what I kind of studied in, you know, in college. But, you know, so sometimes you just want to give something back and I feel like people can do that, you know, If you care about people, if.

[30:26] SPEAKER B: You have.

[30:29] KEN SOLEYN: Empathy for people, I don't know how America, you know, got that missing. I don't know if it has to do with the media, you know, like when you turn on the news and the way it's structured, or maybe it's the fact that information just goes all over the place so quickly. that a lot of it is maybe not factual. Or people are simply like not talking to one another, you know.

[31:02] DIANA JORDAN: And I don't think, you know, when, you know, I was growing up, you were growing up, because I'm only a couple years younger than you are. So, you know, we actually talked to each other. We actually listened to each other when we had conversation. you know, my, my nephews, and I don't know if you have kids or grandkids or, but my nephews, you know, I will be talking, my nephew, they're teen, when they're 18, 1, 15, and have the time that I'm talking to them, they're doing this, so, yeah, blah, blah, blah. So I don't think, you know, we don't make eye contact, right? We usually don't think, well, you know, this has become, you know, we text to communicate. So I think there's so much difference in how we communicate with each other, and I think there's a generation, you know, that The Gen Z or Gen Y or whatever they're called, you know, there are differences of that, you know, and to me it's not, you know, smothered down, I'm not saying that, but I think that we, I feel sometimes we've lost the ability to be kind to each other and If the video sets the tone, we also have a person in a position of power who doesn't seem to know, in my opinion, how to be kind or caring. That's the tone.

[33:01] KEN SOLEYN: I also think, you know, I've been in business as well, and you know, worked for GE, which was one of the biggest corporations in the world. And I ran a $36 million business unit and had, like, negotiations with all kinds of people from all different countries and everything like that. And, you know, they respected us. They respected Americans. And I think Trump, from a business point of view, the way he deals and works. I don't think he's a great businessman. I think he's putting the country deep into debt. And what he's done is to give tax cuts to the very rich. To pay for that, that comes from cutting services for the poor and the working class, the middle class. and when, when, when that class of people does better, they're going to try to save some money, but they're going to spend money and they're going to spend money to stimulate other businesses.

[34:15] SPEAKER B: Right.

[34:16] KEN SOLEYN: If you have, you know, a bit of extra money, you know, you might spend it on ice cream for the kids or so, you know, whatever, whatever. Or entertainment or going to a show or something like that, because you can't. you can't live in your home wringing your hands, you know, you want to live life.

[34:36] SPEAKER B: Right.

[34:37] KEN SOLEYN: And, you know, there is value to me in, in, like, I really love music. You know, I always found music was, like, a companion for me.

[34:49] SPEAKER B: Like.

[34:52] KEN SOLEYN: I love all different types of music, but when you see it live, like a live performance, performances, to me that was always really something, you know, to see musicians play or even like a good singer, you know, sing.

[35:12] DIANA JORDAN: I just got back from my cruise with my family and I was walking around and I'm like, this is like a mini little nation on the river, on the ocean, because You saw all families with different nationalities and different, you know, they had an LBTQIA+ and they had, you know, I saw people representing different nationalities and countries and ages and people with disabilities and it was like beautiful to me because we're all kind of Together, but apart, we're together in the, for four days, we're all like floating on the ocean together.

[36:02] KEN SOLEYN: Your own little country together. Your own little country on the ocean, you know.

[36:08] DIANA JORDAN: It was, it was like a little country on the ocean. It was so, it was really beautiful and you know, you saw, you know.

[36:19] SPEAKER B: And.

[36:21] DIANA JORDAN: You know, everyone, I guess, because, you know, they're in but there's this love, you know, you tell people holding hands and holding hands to their kids, it was just, you know, and, you know, I mean, I'm smart enough to know that, you know, it wasn't utopia and, and I'm sure, you know, everyone had their stuff, but it was just really beautiful to see you know, people, you know, again, like you said, the ocean.

[36:55] KEN SOLEYN: We've been on a couple of, you know, you work hard, you know, all year. So you figure like a vacation and get away from the, you know, the everyday pressure, especially, like when I work in sales and marketing for GE, there's a lot of pressure from the guys up above to make the numbers, you know, make money for the company and. so to be with your family or to get away like that, we just used to enjoy putting the kids in the car with, like, a cooler and drive somewhere, you know, like a state park or something. Go for, like, a picnic.

[37:34] SPEAKER B: And.

[37:36] KEN SOLEYN: I would put, like, the baseball gloves and ball in the.

[37:41] SPEAKER B: In.

[37:41] KEN SOLEYN: In the trunk of the car or football. and just to be out there, you know, playing with your kids, throwing the ball around, you know, and these are very American things, you know, that everybody wants that. I think everybody can have it, but you have to pay people what their value is. You can't just expect the poor and the middle class to fund the rich people like that. They have to pay their fair share.

[38:13] DIANA JORDAN: Now, one of my favorite memories, like I said, I grew up in the 70s, is we had a Vista Cruiser station wagon, and we would go in the summers to the drive-in movies. And I remember, I remember we had these little pup-mas, I had the younger sister, we had these little pineapple sippy cups, like, like a pineapple with a straw, and my mom would pack popcorn and snacks, and they would give... that was the time when you just drove around the car because they didn't wear seatbelts. So they would put down the seat, that back seat, put down the seat and put blankets on there and, you know, my sister and I would go to sleep at, you know, we'd wake up at home and it was just, Some of my favorite summers, and you know, I grew up in the neighborhood where we would play outside until the streetlights came on. Yeah, that, I mean, you know, and my nephews are growing up very differently, and not that they don't have friends, but you know, my, I kind of feel like, But that was like, you know, I talked to my best friend who, Sandy, who I grew up with, and I was like, I feel like that era is almost lost, and that I don't know what neighborhoods are like right now, 'cause I live in an apartment, but we had block parties then. I knew everyone in the neighborhood. I don't know how my, I live in an apartment now. I didn't know if they were running in my neighborhood. I'd say hi, but I don't have a friendship with them. Like I did growing up where, you know, he even babysat for me. Then I got old enough, I babysat for kids who were younger, and we don't.

[40:23] KEN SOLEYN: Kids in my neighborhood, we would play sports together. We'd ride our bikes. We'd ride our bikes up to the beach and just chain it up and go swimming in the ocean just in like cut off shorts, you know? I would ride the subway in New York and just go all over the city. You could go to libraries, museums and stuff like that as a student. And I love taking all of that in, you know, it was like a lot of mental stimulus. and you talk about the 70s and the 70s, that's like when the disco era was, you know, I could remember going out and buying a suit, you know, three-piece suit. And, you know, you, you know, you had the hair all in place with hairspray and you went out to the disco. And a couple years later, they came up with that movie with John Travolta on Saturday night.

[41:26] SPEAKER B: Live. Yeah.

[41:28] KEN SOLEYN: And I said this. Yeah, I've been to that place because I, I had, but it was a couple years before the movie. And it wasn't a really big place either. It was, you know, it was like, it was like, it was funny because when, like, when the movie came out, it was a couple years after, like, disco had kind of ended in New York because New York was kind of, like, always on the Cutting Edge of, like, culture, you know?

[41:54] SPEAKER B: Right.

[41:54] KEN SOLEYN: From being a in acting and these places like LA and New York, so like East West, always like the cutting edge, like Paris would be in Europe, you know, all the latest fashion or London, you know, these big things.

[42:12] DIANA JORDAN: And Chicago was always like kind of in the middle, you know, I mean, I realized my whole life I've been two of the biggest, you know, Chicago and LA, you know, the biggest these in the country, you know.

[42:27] KEN SOLEYN: Chicago Bulls versus the Knicks.

[42:29] DIANA JORDAN: Oh my gosh, yeah, the Bulls, the Cubs.

[42:33] KEN SOLEYN: I live near Boston now, so I got into the Celtics.

[42:38] DIANA JORDAN: Oh, okay, okay, cool. I used to sub, and so I would be as if, you know, you know, I remember the kids I was into, you know, basketball and My dad, you know, we would come home from church. My dad was a minister, but he didn't have a church. We would come home from church and especially in the fall he would read the Bears. My dad was a big Bears fan. So we, you know, that would be on. But yeah, I think that's like, I'm an actor because I love to tell stories. You know, and I love the test stories that we don't know about yet. And, you know, to me, the art is very healing. You know, what do people do during the pandemic? They binge things again. That brought them, why? Because, you know, they've been binge-watching because it brought them joy. to see the Regency era or they binge Steinfeld again. Why?

[43:58] KEN SOLEYN: Because it was like Netflix and all that stuff.

[44:03] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, you know, yeah, you know, it's funny because I would debate with my friends because, yes, they were the first responders, but I really do believe artists were essential workers too, not in the way that first responders were. We were on the front line, but yet, I do believe art helped people get through the pandemic.

[44:32] KEN SOLEYN: Yes.

[44:33] DIANA JORDAN: Right, there was a movie that was, and that's how art, the stories that people could connect to and define common Connection so I believe that was all part of it too.

[44:48] KEN SOLEYN: I have a question for you in your in your acting is it mainly would you say these are mainly like American stories?

[45:00] DIANA JORDAN: Mainly yeah, I mean, I you know.

[45:03] KEN SOLEYN: It'S like because the reason I ask is like anywhere you go in the.

[45:09] SPEAKER B: World.

[45:11] KEN SOLEYN: American culture, especially like music and visual arts, like music dance, is very well, like, renowned. And you hear it, you know, you see it all over the world. You go to China, you're gonna hear like Motown or you're gonna hear rock and roll like Elvis or somebody like that.

[45:35] SPEAKER B: Right.

[45:38] KEN SOLEYN: And, and so, so American culture is very renowned, but yet there seems to be again, like a big twisting of it. People globally are now saying, you know, we don't like America. America, this is sort of like a backlash against America.

[45:59] DIANA JORDAN: I do think, well, I'm in a way, though, the type of auditions I get right now are for, you know, television shows and things like that. So those are predominantly American stories that I get called in to read for. Would I love to, you know, do something that was an American? Yeah, that would be so cool because I would learn a lot. but, you know, I don't necessarily get called in to tell an Asian story or a Chinese story because I'm not, if you're looking for predominantly Chinese actors, I'm not Chinese. But would it be, for me, would it be fun if there were a storytelling where I was a minor character and another person's cultural story. That would be great. One of the coolest memories I ever had. We went to the Caribbean when I was a kid. My dad would join the Merle Forrester Church. And I think he was 16 or 15. It was like after my sophomore year. And we went to Jamaica, born in the country side of Jamaica. And I saw a play. I remember the really hot garage and the very hot. But it was the first time I realized that culture happens everywhere. And I got to see a Theo Brand in Trinidad and Tobago. So at the young, that was really great for me because they opened my eyes that art is not just, you know, the jazz and then the Walt and there was everything I was. into but it's, it's where wine that there's cultural art is the expression of.

[48:00] KEN SOLEYN: Every culture and whether in America, like Native American.

[48:08] DIANA JORDAN: Yes.

[48:08] KEN SOLEYN: Culture, it's very deep. But in, in media, in the movies and things, you know, they they always seemed to stereotype, you know, them. In fact, a lot, a lot of the actors that played Indians, you know, there were, there were white people, and they would just use makeup or they'd put a wig on and so on, like Chuck Connors or somebody would be Cochise. You know, I remember that one. But, you know, I, I remember I always rooted for the Indians in the cowboy and Indian movies. but I was watching them growing up. And yeah, it seems like there's a big story in America. You know, there's a lot of stories to be told. But it seems like this administration is anti-culture, it's anti-intellectual. the attack on Harvard and all these other schools, it just seems like they're anti-intellectual anti-arts anti-people of color, anti-gay and lesbian, you know, LGBT, anti-everything.

[49:27] DIANA JORDAN: Well, you know, they always say, you know, they always say that, but there's so much we ran into the truth about it, you know, they're saying, you know, revisiting America, but essentially that's what they're doing. But not by making it, you know, prohibiting schools from teaching about the true history, prohibiting the goal to really teach about history. are rewriting it. They are really rewriting history by knowing that it exists, you know?

[50:14] KEN SOLEYN: Yeah, they want to take all the people of color, African Americans, out of history, you know?

[50:23] SPEAKER B: Right.

[50:25] KEN SOLEYN: And it's a very dangerous thing because who do they go after next?

[50:34] DIANA JORDAN: Right, well, you know, good, and, you know, as an African American disabled woman who has a kid, you know, I at times feel very vulnerable because, you know, I'm, you know, I mean, not that I didn't want kids, it's just, you know, it didn't happen. And I am, you know, I am, I'm an aunt, I'm a godmother. I work with the youth at my church. I have mothering instincts.

[51:13] KEN SOLEYN: They're gonna inherit, the next generation is gonna inherit the world, let's call it.

[51:18] SPEAKER B: Right.

[51:19] KEN SOLEYN: So it's like, are we gonna mess it up? So badly that they can't recover. But I think that's one of the things that I always tell anyone that's young is you gotta get a little, certainly involved enough to get out and vote if you can vote. To vote because I think the best thing we can hope for is like in the next election cycle 2026, the midterms that the Democrats I could at least get a majority in Congress and kind of hold Mr. Trump in check a bit.

[51:56] DIANA JORDAN: Right, right.

[51:57] KEN SOLEYN: So, you know, the 2028, when the presidential election comes up.

[52:03] DIANA JORDAN: Well, that's what I'm hoping. I mean, I think, you know, he can't run again. You know, you know, I'm hoping that, you know, will be able that, you know, the Democrats will be able to, will be, you know, and it will be my nephew's first election. So I've devoted my older nephew. I'm really getting around there talking to him about the important, not only the important devotion, but that is, you know, great-grandparents and even any grandparents, my parents, you know, voting wasn't necessarily a guaranteed right and that it really is a privilege.

[52:50] KEN SOLEYN: You know, the way I look at it also is I made it this far through life and, you know, I don't, I don't have it too badly.

[53:03] SPEAKER B: I have a home.

[53:06] DIANA JORDAN: And, you know.

[53:07] KEN SOLEYN: I don't go hungry or anything like that. And when I look around, there are a lot of people. who have it currently a lot worse off, you know, like homeless people and so forth. Now you can't help everyone, but, you know, I tell people if, well, even if you don't have money, maybe you have some time because it's just.

[53:32] SPEAKER B: Like.

[53:32] KEN SOLEYN: For example, senior citizens, you know, elderly, sometimes I'll meet someone somewhere and it's like they just want someone to talk to, you know, you know, they, you know, maybe, maybe their spouse died or something like that. And, you know, they're, they're just times where they just would like to speak to someone, you know?

[53:57] SPEAKER B: Right.

[53:58] KEN SOLEYN: So sometimes you may have some time. Just give them a little time and, and patience. And I, I think that's what is kind of missing. Everybody wants everything fast. They want it now. It takes time to work your way through. And like if you're trying to, you know, I could maybe you could relate like in acting, you don't nail it the first time. You have to practice and rehearse and as you do it and then it looks easy when final performance looks very audience, it looks really easy, like it's very natural, but you've worked all that way to get to that point.

[54:44] DIANA JORDAN: All right, oh no, I agree, I mean, the thing is to make you look good, even if it's not, you.

[54:49] KEN SOLEYN: Know, we used to do like sales pitches in front of a group or conference, you know, we would kind of have to rehearse our pitch, you know, Right. Make it look smooth that we know what we're talking about, or we'll try to think about anticipating the questions that are going to come out. And for example, if you're dealing with the Japanese, it's a very different thing than in America, you know. They have very well-structured rules of the way they do things. everybody speaks that needs to speak and they get a turn and, and everybody's on time and they were very respectful of each other. And you, you think the way things are going, nothing is ever going to be done, but yet it, it just seems to work out.

[55:40] SPEAKER B: Right.

[55:41] KEN SOLEYN: You know, so, yeah, I, I think that, I think we have to look at it like, you know, two sides of the coin in that. We're here, we've afforded a pretty good life. You know, you've counted some memories from childhood and things like that, despite the adversity that, you know, you might have been up again, things worked out, and, you know, there is a life here, and there is value to these kinds of discussions, I think.

[56:19] DIANA JORDAN: Oh, I do, too. I mean, I think, you know, it's about, you know, I, I, I, when I speak, and I think about, you know, the value of listening, understanding, validating and having empathy, you know, it's like, it's really listening. And, you know, this was, like, fascinating. I was a bit nervous, but I was, you know, my nerves went away because it's just a simple conversation. But, you know, and I think that Tim Robbins, so imagine if around the world people are having these really simple conversations of learning to understand one another and, you know, we all, you know.

[57:14] KEN SOLEYN: It also helps if you feed them.

[57:17] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, I know. Sometimes we have that pizza. That we're getting pizza and talk to someone.

[57:25] KEN SOLEYN: That's the one thing I learned growing up.

[57:27] DIANA JORDAN: Whenever.

[57:27] KEN SOLEYN: Whenever there was food, you know, like, people would cook because we would. We would, like, have, like, a potluck. Everybody brings a dish.

[57:37] SPEAKER B: Right.

[57:38] KEN SOLEYN: And that's always a good way of like, you know, whatever it is food.

[57:42] DIANA JORDAN: Involved or, you know, Palas are great. Church means everyone bring food and, you know, food in conversation. That's right.

[57:55] KEN SOLEYN: Because we know people have to eat. They have, you know, a little refreshment as well. Even if it's like sometimes it's a coffee or something like that, you know.

[58:03] DIANA JORDAN: Like, three people.

[58:05] KEN SOLEYN: Yeah, that's something I think that is missing. And, like, people used to say, come over to the house, get a cup of coffee and talk about sometimes it just be like sports. Like, my dad would talk to the neighbors about sports and, you know, things like that, you know, what was happening.

[58:24] SPEAKER B: And.

[58:26] KEN SOLEYN: And you, you'd go to the different shops, like if because it would be like you'd have a butcher, a green grocer, and if and these are like what we call mom and pop, you know, store. But in your neighborhood, you got to know those people and they knew you, you know, they almost knew what you liked. I remember my mom used to go like buy fish because we used to have fish every Friday. and the guy knew what kind of fish she liked and how she liked it cut up and everything like that, you know, and that seems to be missing. When I think about growing up, that seems to be missing now. You're, you're buying your, your fish in a big supermarket and all the groceries in, in a supermarket. There's some people that don't even go out for groceries. They just have them delivered.

[59:21] SPEAKER B: To.

[59:23] DIANA JORDAN: Dinner.

[59:24] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[59:24] DIANA JORDAN: And for me, I do because during the pandemic, you know, that's what I did. And then I just found for me, just because my disability was just easier for me. It's easier for me to have them delivered than to get on the bus to go to the store. And then I either have to carry the bathroom or take an Uber home.

[59:47] KEN SOLEYN: So, you know, technology. Kind of stopped that personal interaction as much because it has. The other day I noticed that this guy walked through a door and it was a lady behind him. He didn't even hold the door. And when I was growing up, you always held the door.

[01:00:12] SPEAKER B: I still do.

[01:00:12] KEN SOLEYN: You always hold the door, you know? We're just taught to be polite. and thank you. And even in school and everything like that, you always have to say good morning to your teacher, thank you, all of these kinds of things. And I think that's another thing that's missing is we're not training people to be polite and nice.

[01:00:38] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, we have we called adults by Mrs. But Mr. and Mrs., you know.

[01:00:46] SPEAKER B: Even.

[01:00:47] DIANA JORDAN: My friends' moms, even as an adult, my friends' moms that they would call Mrs. I'm not, I'm not, I have younger friends. I mean obviously if a friend's mom is my age, you know, but it really, even a couple of my high school teachers where I kind of became friends with. It was weird for me to call them other person. I mean, it took a minute of a mindset to go, oh, yeah, we're. We're adults now, you know?

[01:01:22] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[01:01:22] KEN SOLEYN: It just seems to me like. Like, I'm sometimes the most happy when I. And I. I have to admit, I do use my iPhone a lot and computers, but. when I go out hiking and I don't have, sometimes I go places I don't even have cell phone service.

[01:01:41] DIANA JORDAN: Wow.

[01:01:42] KEN SOLEYN: You know, you're hiking in the woods.

[01:01:44] SPEAKER B: And.

[01:01:46] KEN SOLEYN: You know, to me that it's you, you, you, you feel nature, you're at peace. And if you think about it, like, more of the Earth is not developed with houses and roads and all that than it is. But, you know, we tend to be, the technology has kind of allowed people to be boxed in. You can stay in your room.

[01:02:12] SPEAKER B: As.

[01:02:12] KEN SOLEYN: A healthy, let's say, teenager. You could just stay in your room and you have access to all of this information. When I was a kid, you wanted information, you had to go out and buy a paper or go down to the library to get a book or go to a movie or you had to go out, you know, or you just went on the streets, you know, so what you could do, you know, you, you, you, you check your little money and, you know, your kids wants his little soda pop and all, all of that stuff. And in, in Brooklyn, we used to have these soda fountains where you would go and you get a, a soda for I think it was like 10 cents or nickel or something like that.

[01:02:58] SPEAKER B: Wow.

[01:03:00] KEN SOLEYN: They would actually have the, they call it a soda jerk. It was like a hand.

[01:03:07] DIANA JORDAN: Right, right.

[01:03:08] SPEAKER B: Yeah.

[01:03:09] DIANA JORDAN: I didn't know but we had, in the summer, we had the good human man that would come by with the ice cream.

[01:03:17] KEN SOLEYN: More like a white, a white.

[01:03:19] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think I think he loved our neighborhood.

[01:03:24] KEN SOLEYN: He had a boat tie.

[01:03:25] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, the tie. And I think, you know, he loved our neighborhood because there were so many kids. I mean, you could probably clean up for the day just in our neighborhood. And they get at least 20, 30 people right there, you know, you know, oh, they get it. You go get your quarter and your or whatever it was. I don't think you leave in a dollar back then you go get your allowance. and, you know, buy the ice cream. But, like, a good human man.

[01:04:00] KEN SOLEYN: You know, like I said, I think. I think as they get older and they get more and more of this self-centeredness and this idea of I. I got to be better than everybody else or. I, you know, I got to take the shortcut instead of working for something, I gotta, like, rip somebody off, you know?

[01:04:27] DIANA JORDAN: Right, right, right.

[01:04:29] KEN SOLEYN: And, I mean, you know, and believe me, growing up, I've been through, I've been through a lot. I've been through all the temptations, you know.

[01:04:41] SPEAKER B: And.

[01:04:41] KEN SOLEYN: But you find that for me, you're gonna. I think if you're honest. and you truthful about things and just honest in your business dealings, you're gonna have a better life. You don't have these kinds of regrets. But it takes some work, you know, to do it. And you mentally, you got to be tough, you know, and then you make mistakes. Not everything, you know, works your way. You make mistakes and hopefully you learn from them.

[01:05:12] DIANA JORDAN: And I think that's the thing, too, is like, you know, this is the only human beings are not perfect. But I do believe that through this thing, like, like this conversation, you know, we've been talking for over an hour, and we've nearly. I mean, we just met, you know, literally, and.

[01:05:46] KEN SOLEYN: This is my third one.

[01:05:47] SPEAKER B: And. Wow.

[01:05:51] KEN SOLEYN: So it's been. It's been interesting because, like I said, I. I'm. I'm used to interfacing with a lot of people for business, right? lately, I've been on a little bit more politically involved.

[01:06:10] SPEAKER B: Being.

[01:06:12] KEN SOLEYN: With the Democratic Party. I've been going to a few of the protesters, and I, I tell people that I'm more of a seeker than trying to get any specific message, I believe in fairness, but I'm trying to seek and there are going to be certain things that appeal to me, like the environment, you know, like fighting for the environment. Because I love the outdoors so much. Even, even when we lived in Brooklyn, my dad had a garden in the backyard. He used to grow vegetables because, you know, they, my mom came from a farming family and everything.

[01:06:52] SPEAKER B: Right. And.

[01:06:54] KEN SOLEYN: Those vegetables always tasted better when you grew yourself. So, you know, we've always had an appreciation for that.

[01:07:03] SPEAKER B: And.

[01:07:05] KEN SOLEYN: So different people have different talents and different things that interest them. So I'm a bit now trying to pursue, and I've been working with the Sierra Club and the Democrats.

[01:07:20] SPEAKER B: Cool.

[01:07:20] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, it was really interesting because I have conversations with people who are, you know, different. And I found a lot of you, a lot of, a lot of fun. Even when you have things in common, there are still so many differences, you know. And I really love that.

[01:07:42] SPEAKER B: I mean.

[01:07:45] DIANA JORDAN: This is my first one, but I definitely want to do more if anything just that I've had an hour, hour and a half conversation with someone in the world and I go, oh, Kenny, they were over there in New Hampshire and that, you know, it's what a wonderful experience to be able to do this, you know.

[01:08:11] SPEAKER B: All right.

[01:08:12] KEN SOLEYN: Well, so hopefully you got something out of it and I enjoyed it myself.

[01:08:19] DIANA JORDAN: Oh, I did so much. It was so wonderful to talk to you.

[01:08:25] KEN SOLEYN: I think our time kind of went over a little bit, but that's fine.

[01:08:29] DIANA JORDAN: Yeah, that's how I heard the beep. I go, oh, no, they're gonna cut us off now. All right.

[01:08:37] KEN SOLEYN: Well, very good. Well, I'll say goodbye and We'll go from there.

[01:08:43] DIANA JORDAN: All right, great. I know it's later there, so goodbye and thank you so much.

[01:08:47] KEN SOLEYN: All right, all right, bye-bye.

[01:08:49] DIANA JORDAN: All right, take care.

[01:08:50] KEN SOLEYN: You too.

[01:08:51] DIANA JORDAN: Bye.

[01:08:54] SPEAKER B: Bye.

[01:08:55] DIANA JORDAN: Okay, good.