Susan Bolinger and Lorraine S

[00:00] SPEAKER A: Right.

[00:01] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, there you are. Here, I'll cheat. Well, hello from Fort Wayne, Indiana, and hello to Bend, Oregon.

[00:10] LORRAINE S: Oh, thank you, Susan, where we, my.

[00:13] SUSAN BOLINGER: Husband and I used to live, so we'll get to that.

[00:16] LORRAINE S: Oh, good, good.

[00:19] SUSAN BOLINGER: Lorraine, have you done one of the, have you done any One Step interviews?

[00:23] LORRAINE S: No, no, this is the first time and I do. I'm a little skeptical about it because I think, do I have time for this? You know, my life is, you know, our lives are full. So anyway, I'm happy to meet you, Susan. And have you done this before?

[00:49] SUSAN BOLINGER: I am a beta person. I've been doing this. for a while.

[00:53] LORRAINE S: Oh, good.

[00:54] SUSAN BOLINGER: Some of my early conversation companions, we carried on for quite a while and will resume after the summer continuing. But all of my conversations as of late or the conversations that I've had as of late have been just regular one-time conversations might circle back a couple times. So yes, yes, I have. Well, let me ask you this. Lorraine, tell me why did you want skepticism aside? Thank you for doing it. Why did you want to do this interview? Why did you sign up with One Small Step?

[01:29] LORRAINE S: Well, a friend recommended it as one practical way to further whatever, whatever positive direction is going to happen in our current situation. So I thought, well, I'll try that.

[01:47] SUSAN BOLINGER: I feel honored to be here first.

[01:50] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[01:51] LORRAINE S: Thank you for your commitment and for making time for this. Have you seen value in this in terms of bridging, providing bridges of understanding? Have you experienced that?

[02:14] SUSAN BOLINGER: Actually, I've been rather blown away by the conversations that I've been able to have with people, some who have incredibly different lives than I do, a life than I do. And the comments, there's usually one or two stories or comments or perspectives that have stuck with me from every person I've talked to. So I have a friend who's a new One Step Pacific Jew friend in Brooklyn. And we have very fascinating, I've had the tour of his kosher kitchen and his apartment and has talked to his wife via one small step as we continued on. And I've had a really lovely gentleman who is out in central Oklahoma. who probably is, you know, based on what you marked on your bio, is probably more in line with where you and I might be, but he's surrounded by Ruby Red, as I am here in Indiana and other places I've lived. But he had just fascinating life experiences over the last 30 years that have culminated in these moments and these conversations. and I just talked to someone the other day who was also skeptical about doing this. And he was shocked. He's far more conservative than I. And he was shocked at our Venn diagram overlap on common ideas. And so I've loved it and continued.

[03:53] LORRAINE S: I know. That's great. Good, well, it is good because I think what occurs to me is this format gives more time for a conversation. So I have people in my life that think differently than I do, but we rarely are both interested in taking time to discuss. and share. So this is, I can see the benefit.

[04:25] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, one thing that, so before I was doing these interviews, and this is probably what really led me to want to do them, was during the first Trump administration or that election. And I knew that I had family members, Lorraine, that I could not ask. why would you vote for him, nor would they even think of asking me, why would I vote for the other party? And so I used to just have conversations in the park. If I saw one who had a sticker that denoted a party different from mine, I would ask, you know, questions. And most people were very surprised and receptive to that. But you're right, this format allows for a much deeper exploration.

[05:11] LORRAINE S: So, yeah.

[05:13] SUSAN BOLINGER: With that, may I read your bio, please?

[05:16] LORRAINE S: -Huh.

[05:17] SUSAN BOLINGER: And then let me get to it here. Okay, so Bend, Oregon, typically voting Democratic. I did note it appears to me you might be slightly on the more conservative than liberal Continuum they had there. Music playing violin, which I look forward to hearing about walking and. Hospitality, where do you walk and bend and hospitality, I'm interested to know what that word means to you. I was raised in LA in the 50s, so now I'm a senior living solo now that my husband of 40 years is gone and I'm sorry to hear that. We enjoyed our lives here in Oregon and traveled extensively, including teaching English in China and Kyrgyzstan, which I did look up to make sure I knew where that was. I'm grateful to be a breast cancer survivor. I'm interested in doing what I can for the betterment of our country. I love those things and your attributes and events and stories, which I also will have questions about. I'm sorry to hear you recently lost a loved one. Consume liberal leaning media, live in an urban area, music and animal lover, stories of Second Amendment and gun control. I'd love to hear that. I was shaped by my mind and band, health care, immigration and voting and elections. I have questions about it all.

[06:42] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[06:45] SUSAN BOLINGER: Good.

[06:46] LORRAINE S: Okay. You want me to read yours?

[06:49] SUSAN BOLINGER: You can. It seems so old. I wrote that so long ago. I really need to change it, but go ahead.

[06:55] LORRAINE S: Okay. Let's see. All right. You are somewhat On the liberal side, your interests are travel, sailing, and volunteering. I'm the youngest of three and was raised in a suburb of a major Midwestern city. I've lived all over the US and in two European countries. It's such a blessing to live in so many places, especially those that are so different from where I was raised. It opened my eyes to how different life can be depending on where you live. My faith is the most important thing in my life. Dealing with climate change and stewardship of nature are critically important to me. I've been married 25 years but have no children.

[07:46] SPEAKER A: And.

[07:50] LORRAINE S: So these recent events Health or health of a loved one impacted by COVID. Animal lover, fought with family and friends over politics.

[08:06] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[08:07] LORRAINE S: So you say recently lost a loved one, recently moved to a new community.

[08:15] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[08:16] LORRAINE S: Well, I'm glad to meet you.

[08:20] SUSAN BOLINGER: Thank you, Lorraine. And you too.

[08:22] SPEAKER A: Well.

[08:24] SUSAN BOLINGER: If you don't mind, would you mind if I take the first question of you?

[08:28] LORRAINE S: Please, please.

[08:30] SUSAN BOLINGER: So you've lived in more diverse areas than I, but living in and teaching in China and Kyrgyzstan. We've both seen, if we think of life as a mountain, we've both seen life. from some other parts of the mountain than just the perspective we had where we were. Tell me about your time in China and Kyrgyzstan and how that impacts how you interact with people who don't do have different backgrounds and perspectives.

[09:06] SPEAKER A: Well.

[09:11] LORRAINE S: Both those stents in those countries were very important and valued in our lives. We loved our students and I'm still in touch with a couple of them. So that's a blessing. But I've always been, you know, raised in LA. I've always been in a multicultural community. At my schools, there were numerous languages. I heard there were 60 languages. I'm not sure that's, you know, but anyway, you get the idea. So I'm very interested in multicultural communities, and that relates, I suppose, to my commitments to wanting to see our country be all it can be.

[10:19] SUSAN BOLINGER: Would you care to put any more meat on the bones of that very compelling and I would agree with statement about wanting our country to be all it can be? Well.

[10:32] LORRAINE S: The current leadership is caught in a grip of misunderstanding, in my opinion, of the human community, the human family, and the current administration, you know, the point of view that they hold is so distorted and so opposite to what I believe and what I've been raised to cherish and celebrate and perpetuate in my work and other things. So that's a little bit of meat.

[11:16] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, I love that phrase. In fact, I just wrote it down about cherish, celebrate and perpetuate. I think I'm gonna. That's one of those things I'll take with me out of our conversation, because. So I was raised outside of Minneapolis and then moved to Indianapolis and then I've lived in all parts of the contiguous US and then just to European countries. But I came from parents who were very open to multicultural everything. And so while I'm jealous and so glad for you that you were in a school system that might have had say 60 languages, Oh, yeah. My mother would have celebrated that. And that phrase, cherish, celebrate and perpetuate is a beautiful one that although they didn't have that experience the same way you did, they certainly believed in that. And I have, out of the three of my of the siblings, I have am the one that would echo your phrase.

[12:17] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[12:19] LORRAINE S: Which countries did you live in?

[12:22] SUSAN BOLINGER: I went to college for part of my college career, went to France. Then I lived in my first job out of college, I worked in northern Bavaria for a German hydraulics company. So, you know, it's funny because you were, you had such different kinds of cultural experiences in those two countries. When I went to Germany, I just told my daughter today that I internally in too much, probably had a little bit of ugly American in me in that I thought I would ask questions about, well, what did your family do? How did you understand everything? Hitler. And I'm certain screaming inside me and hopefully wasn't coming out because I was 22. that would never happen in America.

[13:19] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[13:20] SUSAN BOLINGER: And now I, of course, know. Oh, yeah.

[13:25] LORRAINE S: It is amazing how quickly.

[13:28] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[13:30] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yes.

[13:32] SPEAKER A: What.

[13:32] SUSAN BOLINGER: What do you do?

[13:34] SPEAKER A: So. Oops.

[13:37] SUSAN BOLINGER: I'm making notes on two different things here.

[13:39] SPEAKER A: What?

[13:41] SUSAN BOLINGER: How do you, okay, you had a really several really intriguing things when you.

[13:46] SPEAKER A: Said.

[13:50] SUSAN BOLINGER: Doing what you can for the betterment of our country. What does that tangibly look like to you at this stage of your life?

[13:58] SPEAKER A: Right.

[13:59] LORRAINE S: As you know, I'm a senior. I'm 83 and I'm old. So I'm somewhat physically limited. so I can't do a lot of active things.

[14:12] SPEAKER A: But.

[14:16] LORRAINE S: What I do is pray a lot. I write occasional letters to advocate or support something. I try to keep myself well-informed. I donate money to causes that perpetuate what I think should happen. So of those things, for example.

[14:50] SUSAN BOLINGER: I'm.

[14:50] LORRAINE S: Most distressed by the attacks on voter registration and freedom to vote in this Gerrymandering thing is scary. So anyway, I try to support organizations that are doing something on that front.

[15:15] SUSAN BOLINGER: So that's essentially it.

[15:17] LORRAINE S: You know, in my, in this decade, I can't do a lot physically active.

[15:26] SUSAN BOLINGER: You mentioned prayer. Prayer first.

[15:29] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[15:29] LORRAINE S: Oh, prayer is the most important thing.

[15:32] SUSAN BOLINGER: So we. We share that. We share that. Give me your wisdom, if you would. And this is not a standard, I'm sure, one small step question, but given that we both feel that way, give me your wisdom, Lorraine, as you would. How do you pray these days for those things? that are on your heart?

[15:54] LORRAINE S: Well, you know, the most well, the most frequently articulated prayer is the Lord's Prayer, which Jesus taught and said all over the world in every language almost. So I think that prayer summarizes how I'm praying, which is that God's will will be done and God's kingdom would be done.

[16:21] SPEAKER A: Yes.

[16:23] LORRAINE S: So on the small little things, like, let's say, the gerrymandering issues going on right now, I can't, I'm somewhat removed in a way because the bigger prayer.

[16:40] SPEAKER A: Is.

[16:42] LORRAINE S: That God's will will be done. And so I do wonder, I have questions. I would like to ask God why this is happening. Why is it taking so long? But I do believe God is definitely involved and in some mysterious way this is being allowed to happen.

[17:05] SPEAKER A: So.

[17:07] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yeah, well, thank you for that. I really appreciate that. That is something that I I think about all the time. And as I go through different seasons of my life and, and really dig.

[17:21] LORRAINE S: In.

[17:23] SUSAN BOLINGER: And try to understand, what do I think prayer actually is that we have settled on the same, that the, the Lord's Prayer and especially for God's will and his kingdom, and I I really appreciate that because I did not expect to have this part of our conversation at all with you, but I appreciate that.

[17:46] LORRAINE S: Well, it's the most important thing in my life, so I'm glad we can talk about it.

[17:50] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yes, and the most important in mine too. So thank you very much. Tell me, what does hospitality mean to you? You had hospitality on your farm. Yes.

[18:03] SPEAKER A: Well.

[18:07] LORRAINE S: I'm involved in our church, and I have been in the same community for years in this same church.

[18:15] SPEAKER A: And.

[18:18] LORRAINE S: Over and over again, the focus seems to be, how can we be welcoming? How can we get to know each other better? And you know, there's new people coming all the time. so that's very important. And so I feel it's important to have conversations with people that are just a little step deeper than the cocktail hour type of conversation that happens at churches too. So I invite people over for dinner. Tonight, I'm hosting a dinner for seven people. And these people are ones that I've known in church. I don't know any of them very well, but two of them are.

[19:17] SUSAN BOLINGER: One.

[19:17] LORRAINE S: Is a widow and another is a widower. and then there's a couple, there are two couples. So, you know, just to reach out and get to know people a little better because I think people are seeking more. And, you know, there are always these articles about loneliness.

[19:45] SUSAN BOLINGER: That I don't experience.

[19:46] LORRAINE S: Personally, but the articles say it's an epidemic.

[19:52] SPEAKER A: So.

[19:53] LORRAINE S: So that's what. That's one example.

[19:57] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, so you. I'm gonna come back to that. Let's see. You said that. Had you moved recently?

[20:07] LORRAINE S: I can't.

[20:08] SUSAN BOLINGER: No, you'd recently lost one. Was that your husband?

[20:12] LORRAINE S: Yes.

[20:12] SUSAN BOLINGER: Would you tell me something about him that you. if you don't mind sharing whatever you would like to share about him.

[20:18] LORRAINE S: Oh, he was wonderful. He was a seismologist. We were quite different in our work experiences in life, but we were introduced by mutual friends that knew us both. And so he was just very wonderful. I miss him a lot. Let's see. He was quite an adventurer and I've enjoyed appreciating that aspect of him even now that he's gone. going through his books and giving them away and throwing them away and so forth. And many of them are on world are on adventures out in nature and like safaris and things. And we, he and I had traveled a lot and we've gone on safaris as tourists. But, you know, obviously in his earlier life he was interested in the adventure aspect, the hunting aspect. So we were very different in that. He never talked about wanting to go hunting, and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go. But anyways, that's a little about him.

[21:51] SUSAN BOLINGER: Not really, because isn't that, you know, it's lovely that you could find your way with that being yeah. Who both were. And it was there, but it wasn't problematic.

[22:03] SPEAKER A: Right. Right.

[22:04] LORRAINE S: Yeah.

[22:05] SUSAN BOLINGER: That's real. Oh, thank you for that. I'm a seismologist. What a place. What a place to live. Well, I don't.

[22:11] SPEAKER A: You.

[22:11] SUSAN BOLINGER: How long were you in Bend together?

[22:15] LORRAINE S: Well, Dave. Dave moved to Bend when he retired. He was older than I by 17 years, so he moved to Bend and planned that. planned our house and we had not met five years later we met. So when we married I moved to Bend.

[22:34] SUSAN BOLINGER: Okay.

[22:34] LORRAINE S: That's how I got here.

[22:36] SUSAN BOLINGER: Okay.

[22:37] LORRAINE S: Okay. Have you ever been to Oregon?

[22:40] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, we lived in Bend. Oh, you did?

[22:43] SPEAKER A: When?

[22:44] SUSAN BOLINGER: We did. Let's see. So we lived there for a short time. Let's see. It was before the 2008 crash, so it must have been about 2007.

[22:57] SPEAKER A: To.

[22:57] SUSAN BOLINGER: 2007 and a half or something like that. Oh, my worked out there and then his company was sold and they were moving everything from the company out. And so we went back to our home that we've left at that point up on Lake Superior in northern Minnesota. But we loved it there. We still think of Bend. In fact, not more than a couple of months ago, I was out visiting some friends. protesting the no Kings.

[23:27] SPEAKER A: Oh, yeah.

[23:30] SUSAN BOLINGER: In Medford.

[23:31] SPEAKER A: So.

[23:32] LORRAINE S: So you were. You were in Bend for the no Kings.

[23:37] SUSAN BOLINGER: Actually, we were in Medford, where our friends were. Oh, in Medford.

[23:40] LORRAINE S: Okay.

[23:41] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[23:41] SUSAN BOLINGER: I haven't been back to Bend since we moved. I understand it's grown significantly.

[23:46] LORRAINE S: Oh, it is.

[23:47] SPEAKER A: It is.

[23:48] SUSAN BOLINGER: It's.

[23:48] LORRAINE S: It's still Charming, but it is getting. to be a mid-sized city.

[23:55] SPEAKER A: Well.

[23:57] SUSAN BOLINGER: Hopefully it will retain its charm. You know, it's so beautiful there. Tell me about your animal loving. What kind of animals do you love?

[24:08] LORRAINE S: Well, Dave loved dogs and we had dogs, but I don't have a dog now. I can't really manage one, you know, walking requirements. So I see that recently moved to a new community. That's not true. I don't know how that got there.

[24:29] SUSAN BOLINGER: Okay.

[24:30] LORRAINE S: That's not me. Maybe, you know, maybe I hit the wrong key.

[24:36] SUSAN BOLINGER: That's okay.

[24:37] LORRAINE S: And impacted by COVID?

[24:40] SUSAN BOLINGER: No. Okay.

[24:42] LORRAINE S: I mean, I know people who've had it and people keep having it.

[24:46] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yes.

[24:47] LORRAINE S: I haven't had it. Dave didn't have it.

[24:49] SUSAN BOLINGER: So I'm glad I have long COVID still. I got it in early 2020. It's still my life is just upside down.

[24:58] LORRAINE S: What does that feel like?

[25:01] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, well, a simplistic answer would be every system in my body is still a mess. But I navigate the world just naturally through my sense of direction and sense of space. smell and both of them are utterly gone.

[25:16] LORRAINE S: Oh, yeah.

[25:18] SUSAN BOLINGER: Every now and then something will break through smell wise. We moved during the after.

[25:25] SPEAKER A: A couple.

[25:26] SUSAN BOLINGER: Of years ago, we moved during the pandemic, but towards the end from Savannah, Georgia here for family reasons. But the first two summers of the pandemic, I would stand outside in our yard in Georgia and we had these I don't know how tall they were, 80, 90 foot giant magnolias. Have you ever smelled a Southern magnolia?

[25:47] SPEAKER A: No. Oh.

[25:50] SUSAN BOLINGER: Get to in your life someday. It's extraordinary. And I would stand out there and I would say to my husband, isn't that weird that the magnolias don't smell this year? I had no idea that, you know, it's what's sorry. Yes, so anyway, but yes, yes, I'm still navigating that. I probably am up to 14% of myself. I think I'm estimating 14% of myself.

[26:17] SPEAKER A: So.

[26:19] SUSAN BOLINGER: I changed questions for us because this is the next question and it says, if you don't mind, you may pass if you would like to. Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[26:34] LORRAINE S: Oh, so I will answer, and then you will answer.

[26:38] SPEAKER A: Right.

[26:39] LORRAINE S: Okay. All right. My personal political values would include revering and following the Constitution and noticing that over and over, the idea of equality for all is there.

[26:59] SPEAKER A: So.

[27:00] LORRAINE S: So that's the basic value that I would hope our leaders would carry that out.

[27:09] SUSAN BOLINGER: Our neighbors.

[27:11] LORRAINE S: Our leaders.

[27:12] SUSAN BOLINGER: Leaders. Okay. I thought you said neighbors, in which case I would have to ask more questions. Yes, I would hope so, too.

[27:19] LORRAINE S: Our elected leaders would carry that out, so.

[27:24] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[27:25] LORRAINE S: How about you?

[27:27] SPEAKER A: Well.

[27:31] SUSAN BOLINGER: I started out life, even though I came from very democratic parents, I think where I was raised and when I was raised and the.

[27:43] LORRAINE S: I was.

[27:44] SUSAN BOLINGER: In business at the time, and I think that I started to fall for the idea that to be a titan of industry is an extraordinarily good thing. And I think the pursuit of that took me down some paths that.

[28:04] SPEAKER A: Are.

[28:04] SUSAN BOLINGER: Contrary to where I am now. And when I ended up working in Washington for a higher ed association and was up on the hill, I would hear these things being said by the other party or my party at the time. And I would think, that's not how I want America to be. And over three years of being there and working on the hill, I had a big switch. And I have, I just think I was stupid and fell for a lot of things that America You know, now there's the Smithsonian is under review. All six or eight museums. Do you know this?

[28:51] LORRAINE S: Yes, it's awful.

[28:52] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, and you know, sometimes so I was born in ##. I'm 60. And I, I, when, when we started becoming aware of the fact that the things we'd been taught in incredibly good school systems were only a shade of the truth and not all of the truth.

[29:11] SPEAKER A: Right.

[29:11] SUSAN BOLINGER: Now I hear all these comments about, oh, we're going to get rid of things that don't hold America, you know, don't look, make us look like we're the shiniest, best country there ever is, and we're going to change museums and history for that. Now I am genuinely terrified for knowledge and our country. So my political views have come, I saw a bumper sticker today that said, People over profits, and I.

[29:42] LORRAINE S: Yes, I agree. Yes, definitely. Yeah, the corporate grip is scary. And I understand that those interests are behind things like climate change, denying the progress that has been made, and.

[30:04] SPEAKER A: Make.

[30:04] LORRAINE S: More money, make more money.

[30:06] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[30:08] SUSAN BOLINGER: It'S.

[30:09] SPEAKER A: I.

[30:11] SUSAN BOLINGER: Hence my. My questions about how do you pray? What do you pray? Because I feel like my politics. I probably had politics of Empire before, and now I hope I'm closer to, as I would understand it, the politics of Jesus.

[30:29] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[30:29] SUSAN BOLINGER: You know, I'm only a human on this side. What do I know? But. that's how I read things. And that causes me to want to act politically and otherwise very differently.

[30:42] LORRAINE S: Yes.

[30:42] SUSAN BOLINGER: In one of our churches, we go to two churches here and in one of our churches, they say that we want to act for and make decisions for seven generations and beyond. And I love that.

[30:52] LORRAINE S: Oh, that's great. Yes, that's a great viewpoint.

[30:57] SPEAKER A: Yeah. yeah.

[30:59] SUSAN BOLINGER: So it's been a big change. Okay, let me ask you this. Who's been the most. This is a shift. Next question. Who has been the most influential person in your life? And what did they teach you?

[31:16] LORRAINE S: Influential person. Well, I I. Jesus. I've been a, you know, a follower and a student of scripture for years. So Jesus, and I'm so interested in how other people live out his call, too. You know, of course, there's Martin Luther King, there's Howard Thurman.

[31:49] SPEAKER A: And.

[31:52] LORRAINE S: You know, all these wonderful Saints that have gone before us.

[32:00] SPEAKER A: Yeah. Yeah.

[32:02] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, and what's. What's something if you were to just, you know, pick anything from we answer if it's Jesus. What did they teach you? What are you? what comes to you right now at this moment when you think about what you've experienced?

[32:19] LORRAINE S: Well, you think about him, too. I mean, his love and compassion for those that were marginalized, his self-giving, his laying down his life, his willingness to engage with people who are different. And, you know, even his conversations with his critics, you know, he was there. He wasn't running away. Love that.

[32:59] SUSAN BOLINGER: So agency and definite direct purpose.

[33:07] LORRAINE S: You did.

[33:08] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[33:08] LORRAINE S: All right.

[33:09] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[33:11] LORRAINE S: Who are some of your figures?

[33:15] SPEAKER A: Well.

[33:17] SUSAN BOLINGER: To not just echo who you mentioned, I love Howard Thurman. And I'm, you know, MLK. Absolutely. More personally, I would say my maternal grandfather, who was only because of his age, was only educated until the sixth grade and then had to do all of his own educating after that. You know, we had to drop out and help make money for the family. Lorraine, he was probably one of the most Jesus-like people I've known.

[33:54] LORRAINE S: Wonderful.

[33:55] SUSAN BOLINGER: And he had a very big God. and so he loved people who were marginalized, different, would, you know, I would say he approached his faith more from a mystical God is in everything. My brain is long COVID-y right now. you know, reigns supreme. It may seem like humans are in charge, but the kingdom of God is right there.

[34:35] LORRAINE S: If you choose.

[34:36] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oops. Is that you?

[34:38] LORRAINE S: Excuse me. I I need to silence that. I didn't know why.

[34:43] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, no worries. Wait a sec. Half a sec. Take your time.

[34:51] SPEAKER A: .

[35:19] LORRAINE S: All right, I'm back.

[35:21] SUSAN BOLINGER: Okay, no problem.

[35:28] LORRAINE S: So you were blessed by your grandfather. That's great.

[35:33] SUSAN BOLINGER: Very much so. He wrote me a, he died when I was in college, so it's been a number of years, but he would write me letters I kept every one of those letters and in fact ordered one of the, I asked him, he was an incredible reader, self-taught that he could write and recite poetry. He, when he was checking himself to see how he was mentally as he was getting older, he'd wake up in the morning and he would multiply seven numbers by seven numbers to see if he still had it, you know, those kinds of things. But I asked him one time what were his favorite books and he said Les Misu00e9rables.

[36:18] LORRAINE S: Oh yeah.

[36:19] SUSAN BOLINGER: And he said, let's see, my Latin is going to be iffy here. Quo Vadis, which is interesting. Where are you going? Do you know that book?

[36:32] LORRAINE S: Oh, only I've heard of it. I think I've read it.

[36:37] SUSAN BOLINGER: Outside of him, I'd never, and so I actually ordered it on Amazon the other day, trying to find the right, you know, it's something in the time of Nero.

[36:46] SPEAKER A: Oh.

[36:47] SUSAN BOLINGER: And for my grandfather to say that, to me, that's really something. So now it's finally time for me to go and read those books. They Miz I've read, but I want to read it, thinking about it as his favorite book and why. I think I have ideas. Yeah, yeah, but yes. So, yeah, let me go on to it. So, okay, let's see. We talked about, you mentioned it before, or I think we both said we've had political discussions or have political discussions or arguments strained any of your relationships with family or co-workers. You indicated that the answer is you don't really go near them. Is that right?

[37:31] LORRAINE S: I'm sorry, you said, I don't really, what?

[37:34] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, that you don't because those conversations can't really be very deep.

[37:40] LORRAINE S: Oh, right.

[37:42] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[37:42] SUSAN BOLINGER: And we might be more on the same political spectrum. How are you approaching it? Has anything changed in your conversations with people who might have different political views than you these days?

[37:59] LORRAINE S: Not yet, but I do feel that as things change, there'll be more opportunities. I feel that, you know, it's sort of a developing situation. Things are always changing, so I think so.

[38:16] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[38:17] LORRAINE S: So I think, yeah.

[38:22] SUSAN BOLINGER: I've continued, oh, I'm sorry.

[38:25] LORRAINE S: Go ahead.

[38:26] SUSAN BOLINGER: No, go ahead.

[38:28] SPEAKER A: No.

[38:29] SUSAN BOLINGER: I've continued my habit of accosting friendly looking people in parks when I'm walking a dog or something. Because sometimes I get people who will really engage with me. And I met someone on July 4th who is a PTSD surviving vet. And we had such a lovely conversation. and he was 100. There's a reason I'm telling you this. He was 100 up for both elections. He voted for the, you know, the party I wouldn't vote for. And he, when I asked, well, how do you think it's going? It turns out that the things that have made him start to realize in, in his words, that he made a terrible mistake is because he's gotten to know people who are who work for his company or are in his life in an ancillary fashion, who are greatly impacted by some of these big changes going on like immigration. And as he's gotten to know people in his company that his company needs who have been or are terrified of being deported or caught up in something, he starts to look with fresh eyes and turn off his ears to the media that he's been consuming.

[39:50] LORRAINE S: And starts to.

[39:53] SUSAN BOLINGER: But then I think about the people in my own family. I don't think they're having. They're in too insulated of areas. They're not meeting people who have life experiences other than theirs. And they all hear Echo Chambers in the same media.

[40:11] LORRAINE S: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, well, I don't know.

[40:22] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, all right, let me ask you this. Okay, you're in the middle. I noticed on your Continuum, but a slight tick, if I looked at it correctly, more towards conservative. Was. This is a conversation guidance question. Was there a moment you witnessed or experienced in your life. that most influenced your political beliefs? And I'll add, you know, in a different way than it caused you to turn to where you are now.

[40:53] LORRAINE S: No, I would say not. No, my parents were, I remember my.

[41:01] SPEAKER A: Father.

[41:03] LORRAINE S: I think he changed political parties, and I'm not sure from which to which, whether he became a Republican or became a Democrat. But I remember as a child hearing them talk about that, that he was going to make a switch. So I think he probably switched to Democrat at that time. So I don't, that's the only thing I can think of that might have perked in my mind that It's possible for people to change allegiance. But my allegiance, I've always been a Democrat.

[41:47] SPEAKER A: Since.

[41:49] LORRAINE S: You know, being able to vote.

[41:53] SPEAKER A: So.

[41:55] LORRAINE S: No, I haven't had a dramatic change of heart. Okay.

[42:02] SPEAKER A: In.

[42:04] SUSAN BOLINGER: Your profile, you said you had stories related to Second Amendment slash gun control.

[42:09] LORRAINE S: Was that something you, yeah, I'll just briefly mention this. Our time is fleeting.

[42:15] SUSAN BOLINGER: It is. I'd love to hear it.

[42:18] LORRAINE S: Our church, our denomination, has a commitment to reducing gun violence. And there's a program that's called swords into plowshares, I think.

[42:36] SUSAN BOLINGER: Love it.

[42:37] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[42:38] LORRAINE S: And so our church had an event with another church in town where people were invited to bring their unused weapons, turn them in and. And allow them to be used. in a positive way. So that was an effort for two years, last year and the year before. And it was interesting because not everyone in our church supported that. And there was some discussion about that. And, you know, it highlighted the the breadth of our congregation. It's a pretty big church. So that was a positive thing. In my point of view, it put the church out there leading toward peace and justice, which is what I'm committed to and what I believe Jesus would have wanted.

[43:46] SUSAN BOLINGER: Do you go? If you don't mind me asking, you don't have to answer. Do you go to a peace church?

[43:52] SPEAKER A: No.

[43:52] SUSAN BOLINGER: So, meaning one of the original peace churches?

[43:55] SPEAKER A: No.

[43:55] SUSAN BOLINGER: No.

[43:56] LORRAINE S: Presbyterian.

[43:58] SUSAN BOLINGER: Wait. Do you go to the first Presbyterian Church of Bend?

[44:01] LORRAINE S: Yes.

[44:02] SUSAN BOLINGER: So did my husband and I. Oh, did you?

[44:05] LORRAINE S: Susan. Oh, my goodness. I wonder if we ever met.

[44:10] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, it's. possible. We were both youth leaders. There was on some remembrance day for 9 11. I was one of the speakers. And just because I, I wasn't raised Presbyterian, but my, my husband is a PK, a preacher, 66 year Presbyterian minister. Yeah, I, I don't necessarily say things exactly like people expect a Presbyterian to, but we're deeply involved in the Presbyterian Church here.

[44:40] LORRAINE S: That's wonderful. I'm so happy to know that. And, yes, I, I'd love to know your last name, but I, I don't think we're supposed to share that. We can.

[44:50] SUSAN BOLINGER: And I, I give it to you. We can't. It's Bolinger. B-O-L-I-N-G-E-R. Yeah.

[44:59] LORRAINE S: I have a big, vague remembrance of it. My, my last name is. Stuart S-T-U-A-R-T.

[45:06] SUSAN BOLINGER: Okay. We were there when, let's see, there was a, I think, Stephen, then an interim and Rula. Rula, what is her last name?

[45:16] LORRAINE S: Oh, you were there when Rula was there.

[45:18] SUSAN BOLINGER: I loved Rula. Yes.

[45:21] LORRAINE S: Well, yeah. Oh, that's great. You know, she's in New York now.

[45:25] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yes, outside of Buffalo or Batavia or something, right?

[45:29] LORRAINE S: Yes.

[45:30] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[45:31] LORRAINE S: Well, Susan, this is wonderful to connect.

[45:35] SUSAN BOLINGER: Isn't that amazing?

[45:37] LORRAINE S: Yes, it is.

[45:39] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, yeah.

[45:41] LORRAINE S: Well, well, let's hope this conversation furthers what we both want to see happen.

[45:49] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, in the world. Yes, I would agree. And there's one. So we have four minutes left. Here's another question. Is there anything you learned about me today that surprised you? And then I'll say the same.

[46:02] LORRAINE S: Well, yes, just what we discovered. A time when our paths did cross.

[46:09] SUSAN BOLINGER: Isn't that amazing?

[46:11] LORRAINE S: Yes, yes. And I think I value the commitment you are making to this particular organization, the Step organization. You're doing your part and you sort of model for me a way that I could participate in, in, you know, a less, a very relational way, but not a physically active way.

[46:42] SUSAN BOLINGER: Oh, I love that. Well, thank you. Yes.

[46:46] SPEAKER A: Yeah. But.

[46:49] SUSAN BOLINGER: Well, first, you're lovely and thank you. I feel honored that you were, that I was your first conversation. I find I have never had.

[47:01] SPEAKER A: So.

[47:01] SUSAN BOLINGER: Someone on the very opposite end of the spectrum, there can be a lot of very cautious, kind, tiptoeing towards subjects, and I really appreciate that. What I loved about our conversation today in it unfolding that did surprise me is all of our, I love Venn diagrams and all of our Venn diagram overlap but especially getting to the point where we discovered we went to the same church.

[47:25] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[47:26] SUSAN BOLINGER: What are the chances? You know, I think that you surprised me because I think when we look, I'm not a scientist, but I'm science-y, as I say. And the more you look in science and use the scientific method, the more you see. And the more you see, the more you look. And I swear to you, Lorraine, that I feel like that's a Jesus way to look at the environment.

[47:49] LORRAINE S: Yes. I agree. I agree.

[47:53] SUSAN BOLINGER: Yeah.

[47:54] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[47:55] SUSAN BOLINGER: And your phrase today, I loved it. Cherish, celebrate and perpetrate.

[48:03] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[48:03] SUSAN BOLINGER: Perpetrate, not perpetrate.

[48:05] SPEAKER A: Yeah.

[48:07] SUSAN BOLINGER: Perpetrate.

[48:09] SPEAKER A: Yeah. Yeah.

[48:11] LORRAINE S: That's interesting.

[48:13] SUSAN BOLINGER: That'S lovely. Well, it's been such a delight to talk to you, and I thank you for telling me about your husband and your background. Tell me this. What do you play musically on your violin? What style of music do you like to play?

[48:28] LORRAINE S: My partner, my friend, comes over. We play lots of different, we play Bach. Bach is our favorite, and then we have other, other. other less famous composers. Okay.

[48:44] SUSAN BOLINGER: My mother-in-law was a violinist, outstanding, and I have her violin, which I need to have be tuned and take some lessons. I did play cello.

[48:59] SPEAKER A: I do.

[48:59] LORRAINE S: I encourage you. I started when I was 60. oh, that's one as a child, but I put it away for decades and got it out again at 60. So do. Well, I will celebrate you.

[49:14] SUSAN BOLINGER: Perfect push. Well, Lorraine, it's been a delight. Enjoy your conversation with your friends tonight. As Randy and I have moved around the country and have become. I have church shopped, you know, for a place where we were. It was always the people who did things like what you're talking about, having us over for dinner. made all the difference in the world in terms of how then we jumped into the church and what our ministries were with the church. Good on you. It's been lovely.

[49:45] LORRAINE S: Thank you, Susan.

[49:47] SUSAN BOLINGER: Thank you, Lorraine. Bless you. And I'm going to say a special prayer of thanks for you tonight. Thank you, Lorraine.

[49:53] LORRAINE S: Thank you so much. Bye-bye. It was delightful.