"MC" Maslyn and Carla Cowan

[00:00] CARLA COWAN: Okay.

[00:01] MC MASLYN: All right. So, yeah, you can read my bio first, which I need to amend. Okay.

[00:08] CARLA COWAN: Same. I need to change mine, but I'm going to read yours. Okay. Your interests are physical fitness, community service, and you love looking at interior designs and crafts. I'm one of six children of an Air Force pilot. My mother was a nurse, and I would say a hippie. My parents divorced when I was 10. I have lived in 11 states. I have a master's in public administration and I worked in local government management for nearly 20 years and loved it. I teach at a community college and I teach group fitness classes. To make ends meet, I have cleaning jobs. I'm fortunate to have a lot of friends. I used to be disappointed in my life, but now I feel okay. I love that.

[00:55] MC MASLYN: Yeah, I forgot to add that I have two grown sons. I'm like, why did I leave them out? I don't know how that happened. I did too, and I don't know. Okay. All right, Miss Carla Fort Worth, Texas. So your interests are Holocaust education, volunteer photography travel. I am a 60-something retired professional mother of two, grandmother of four, yay you, world traveler, Texan. I am a storyteller using the lens of similarity and my camera via my travel blog, currently a work in progress. I am an unapologetic volunteer for the causes I believe in, namely human rights. I believe that it is through education, about the past that we inform our choices for the future. A defining moment for me was the 2016 election. Can we talk about those things before we go to the next question?

[02:01] CARLA COWAN: Sure, sure.

[02:05] MC MASLYN: So when I read your bio, I, sorry, do you mind if I go first asking you something?

[02:13] CARLA COWAN: No, please, please go ahead.

[02:15] MC MASLYN: I read your bio. It said Holocaust education. My ex-husband is a Middle East specialist. I put him through 17 years of school. And he teaches about the Holocaust all the time. He's worked for the Holocaust Museum for a while down in DC.

[02:38] CARLA COWAN: Oh, the oh, gosh, that's the best one.

[02:41] MC MASLYN: Yeah. He's been to Israel a lot, and he's actually a Middle East professor for our local university. So when I saw a Holocaust educator, I thought, oh, my gosh, we have a link there. Another link. I lived in Texas for a couple years. I was actually there. on a mission for my church. I don't really go. I don't really attend that church anymore, but it was almost two years. And I was in Fort Worth several times. But I mainly lived in Richardson outside of Dallas. So that's mainly where I was. And then I saw that we're both mothers of two. I have no grandbabies yet. Don't know if I will, but I loved reading that you were a Storyteller. and an unapologetic person for what you believe in. I loved that. So those were some links that I. That I saw. I think it's a small world. That's my personal belief.

[03:52] CARLA COWAN: But I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. It's interesting that you had. That you spent some time in Texas, so. we are. So you know what Texas is like, especially like the DFW area.

[04:09] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[04:09] CARLA COWAN: You won't believe this, but we are currently. It's. I think it's ## degrees here right now, and it's supposed to be in the low 80s all week. So that's like a miracle.

[04:24] MC MASLYN: Wow.

[04:25] CARLA COWAN: And it's wonderful. It's wonderful for you.

[04:28] MC MASLYN: Well, I'm north of Pittsburgh, and it's. we had 40 degree mornings already. The leaves were changing the end of January. And I'm where everybody's mad about it. Like, like, no, this is wrong. This is wrong. I did. I say January. I meant July. In the end of July, the leaves were changing, but.

[04:54] CARLA COWAN: Oh, my goodness.

[04:55] MC MASLYN: Yeah, that's what I meant in July. It was crazy. So I'm already, it took until the beginning of July for the temperatures to even get warm. It was a very long winter. It's been a very short summer. So, okay. Yeah, so I was happy to see those connections there. why did you. Sorry. Go ahead.

[05:28] CARLA COWAN: I just wanted to, like, ask you a couple of things, if it's all right with you.

[05:34] MC MASLYN: Yeah, yeah.

[05:35] CARLA COWAN: About your bio. I loved that. I love that you're very much into Fitness and that you started teaching Fitness classes. I think that's amazing. I'll be, my 65th birthday is coming up and in the last. My birthday. Thank you. Um, I have also, I'm kind of a late bloomer to, to staying fit.

[06:03] MC MASLYN: But.

[06:05] CARLA COWAN: I, you know, started working with a trainer several years ago, but anyway, I've added so many things and, the idea that you started teaching fitness classes, is, is very interesting to me. And I love that we share that Fitness journey. And I also have two sons, so you've got two children. I've got two children. I'm an Air Force. I mean, my father was in the Air Force when I was born.

[06:34] MC MASLYN: Really?

[06:36] CARLA COWAN: Yes.

[06:37] MC MASLYN: Which bases was, where the, was he stationed at?

[06:41] CARLA COWAN: Well, he was at the end of his service when I was born. Oh, I see.

[06:45] MC MASLYN: Okay.

[06:46] CARLA COWAN: Born at Carswell, which is literally two miles from where I live right now.

[06:54] MC MASLYN: So.

[06:57] CARLA COWAN: Anyway, those are kind of the things in your, your education. I love that you're kind of ongoing. You're, it sounds like you're a lifetime learner, and I really like that. I feel like I am. It's very informal at this point. You know, I'm not working anymore, but. I love that and I respect it, especially in women.

[07:22] MC MASLYN: Thank you. You know, I started teaching group fitness in 1981.

[07:27] CARLA COWAN: You did?

[07:29] MC MASLYN: I did. Leg warmers, leotards, tight.

[07:34] CARLA COWAN: Yes.

[07:35] MC MASLYN: At a place called Gloria Stevens Figure Salon in Colorado. But It was such, it was such a good company to work for because back in the early 80s, you know, you were just barely beginning to get like 5k races and the fact that women actually could, you know, do stuff, you know what I mean? Like, be athletic and have it be accepted. But the Gloria Stevens figure salon had We had aerobics and it was dance aerobics. Then we had journal writing and nutrition training and importantly, importantly, weight lifting machines and 80s machines and dumbbells. This company very much understood very early on that you needed all aspects of that you know, training for your health. Unfortunately, they did not have a good business plan. They opened up. So I think they grew too fast and, yeah, they ended up closing down. But for, I think I worked for them for almost two years, and it was very formative because they, I, I remember walking in going, why did I have all these weights? because I was just, you know, doing the aerobics in the running, and I learned very quickly the reason why. So, yeah, I. I teach at the local YMCA, and I taught. I teach spinning at the local University. So it's kind of my. It's been a constant in my life. I wouldn't say that I'm an athlete at all, but. like, I can keep up with the college kids, you know, because. Good for you. Well, when you're consistent, you know, the benefits of consistency. And so it's like, if you don't lose it, it's still there until eventually your body says, yeah, no, but until it says that, I mean, I am dealing with an injury right now, a plantar fascia issue, which is just really frustrating. But yeah, I enjoy it. It's my sanity. My boys, when they were young, if I was like maybe a little grumpy or something, they'd look at me and go, Mommy, have you been to the gym today? That's so... Yes, I have.

[10:20] CARLA COWAN: So that was very forward for the time. after my first son was born, he was born in ##, my second son was born in ##. I was this, I mean, you'll remember this, working out to a Jane Fonda album in my living room.

[10:42] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[10:43] CARLA COWAN: And, you know, I did it very consistently and it was, you know, where we lived. maybe there were places for women to go, but we couldn't have afforded them. So at that time, so it was very forward.

[11:01] MC MASLYN: And, I mean, you probably did buns of steel and abs of steel and whatever.

[11:06] CARLA COWAN: Kalenetics. Do you remember that?

[11:08] MC MASLYN: Yeah, kalenetics. Oh, my gosh. Yes, I can picture the front of the videos right now. But you know, I mean, how great was that? Because women often, they would be very apprehensive when they came into our salon and our studio because they were very self-conscious and they were very grateful they had a place where it was only women. Mm-. Felt very safe there and they did not feel judged. And it was small enough, but big enough that they you know, they felt like they could try these machines and weights and the aerobics without feeling embarrassed. So it was really empowering for women to feel safe and comfortable.

[11:56] CARLA COWAN: You know, I think we're in the same kind of age bracket, and I certainly know we have shared experiences around this workout area. But, you know, I think our generation of women had all of those old messages about body and body negativity instead of body positivity. And I feel like I'm so free from that at this point in my life. And, yeah, you know, it's been such a journey, though, to get here. And I've got two granddaughters, and we are always talking about you know, I mean, one's 13. No, one's 14. One's just turned 12. We're always talking about your body is perfect just the way it is. You're not responsible for anyone else's feelings or ideas about, you know, all of those things that the messages that I didn't get that I didn't, don't even think people knew to give at that time.

[13:02] MC MASLYN: Yeah, I don't. I think they did. I, I know, man. I just remember always thinking, oh, the cheerleaders are perfect and the, you know, those typical feelings and, and that, you know, oh, it was only meant for certain people to have, you know, the, the glory into this and to that, but. The, your granddaughters, do they tell you, do they feel pressure in social media? Do they have phones right now or, you know, about girls and their body image and presuppositions about how they should look or whatever?

[13:48] CARLA COWAN: Because they already are.

[13:50] MC MASLYN: They already are.

[13:52] CARLA COWAN: They're already getting those messages. The youngest one is, she has a phone, but she's not allowed to be on social media.

[13:59] MC MASLYN: Okay.

[13:59] CARLA COWAN: But even with, you know, the YouTubes that she was allowed to watch, it's still there, you know, at that age. And then, you know, I. My young, my older one, we went shopping this summer because we took them to a Goo Goo Dolls concert.

[14:20] MC MASLYN: Oh, my. Oh, my gosh. That would have been so fun.

[14:24] CARLA COWAN: It was amazing.

[14:25] MC MASLYN: She got.

[14:26] CARLA COWAN: So into the Goo Goo Dolls and so they just happened to be here and we took them. But, you know, in shopping, we got to have some real conversations about.

[14:39] MC MASLYN: She.

[14:39] CARLA COWAN: Wanted, she's 14 and she really wanted some lower cut tops. And, yeah. So I said, you know, I'm not, I'm not gonna buy those unless you text your parents the pictures and. so that was a good conversation starter for us to have about, like, you know, you get to pick what you feel good in. You don't have, and I said it right now, your parents, your parents rules are what they are and, and Nana's going to follow those. And, and you are too, while you're with me.

[15:12] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[15:14] CARLA COWAN: But in the future, you're not responsible for anyone else's. ideas about your body. And so anyway, she understood what I was saying and she got that because, you know, she already gets looks in stores and, you know, men like doing a double take and she's 14 for crying out loud.

[15:39] MC MASLYN: So I just feel like going up to them saying and saying something, it'd be hard for me. I mean, oh, I don't know what I would do. I don't know. I don't know.

[15:50] CARLA COWAN: It's really a challenge to make sure that when I'm communicating with them, the old ideas don't come out first. Do you know what I mean? Like the stuff that I was raised in with. But anyway, yeah, it's. It's kind of fun to be able to have that experience. And weren't we, you know, we. A few years ago when they were both kind of little, we did this. dress up thing here, and I got a little red carpet, and they dressed up in different costumes, and I took pictures of them. But it was all based around girl power. So they dressed up as athletes, they dressed up as judges, they dressed up as pile. I mean, all of these non-traditional oh.

[16:37] MC MASLYN: My gosh, that's so great.

[16:39] CARLA COWAN: It was so much fun. They still remember it. They still talk about it. And they were probably three and four, I'm guessing. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So they were young.

[16:48] MC MASLYN: So they live close by then?

[16:51] CARLA COWAN: Yes. Our youngest, my youngest son, he's sir, he just finished four years in the Navy.

[16:59] MC MASLYN: Oh, wow.

[16:59] CARLA COWAN: And they're finally home. So I'm really glad for that.

[17:05] MC MASLYN: Yeah. I think probably especially now with the way things are.

[17:10] CARLA COWAN: I agree.

[17:13] MC MASLYN: I would be glad about that. My youngest is turning 26 in #######. So I remember when they had to sign up for the draft. My boys were five years apart, but they had to sign up for the draft. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh. Like, you never, ever know what's going to happen. And going through that with them and having them sign, and they're like, why do I have to do this? And I'm like, it's. It's what we do. And blah, blah, blah. And I don't remember exactly what I said, but I remember my heart being afraid, even though, like, Marshall, he's 30 now, so I think they sign up when they're 18, right?

[18:04] CARLA COWAN: I think so.

[18:05] MC MASLYN: So that was like 12 years ago. And, you know, I had grown up till age 10 on military bases, but then my brother went in the Navy and then my brother, other brother was Air Force ROTC and my nephews did the, anyway, I've always been around military, but when I started thinking about my sons, you know, and the possibility of it, of a draft while it seemed far away, I wasn't naive enough to think that it could never happen. And then a few years ago, I remember thinking, counting the years, you know, till I knew that Emerson would turn 26. And realizing, especially these last few months, I was like, okay, he's 26 in #######, he's 26 in #######, he's 26 in #######. Having that tension in my mental mind, it's not there all the time. It just pops up every once in a while. And that awareness that something could happen, it could still happen between now and when he turns, you know, 26 with things move fast anyway. I don't like, I didn't like feeling that way about my own son.

[19:34] CARLA COWAN: I can totally relate to that.

[19:37] MC MASLYN: So when he was in the Navy, your son, was it a little cloud of worry over your mind or were you feeling okay or what was that like for you?

[19:49] CARLA COWAN: Honestly, it was constant. And he enlisted as an older adult. So he was, I think the, the cutoff or the upper limit at the time was 39. And he enlisted when he was 38, something he always wanted to do.

[20:09] MC MASLYN: Oh, okay.

[20:10] CARLA COWAN: Very patriotic family. So update, you know, uprooted his family and they did that for four years and. Again, you know, to kind of echo and off of what you said.

[20:26] MC MASLYN: Who.

[20:26] CARLA COWAN: Knows in this environment that we're currently, not even currently, just at any point, at any point. Yeah. Who knows? And I just felt, I mean, you know what it's like, your kids. I just felt it was a huge weight and I didn't realize how much of a weight it was. until they came home and he was out. I mean, it's like, really, finally, now that he's home, I have a different level of peace in terms of when the weight is gone. Now I'm just back to regular mom concern.

[21:05] MC MASLYN: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's like, as a mom, it's fascinating to me how, like, you're, you're. you're always on mom mode, but you're not, it's different. It's different with my youngest. He'll call me and check in on me, but you know, I've got my worries and concerns for him. And then my other son, he like doesn't communicate as much, but I know he's really busy. He owns a couple businesses and blah, blah, blah. And I try not to think about that. But there's still the mom part who wants to just, you know, say, Hey, just checking in. Not wanting to be, you know, in your face, but, you know, I just want to make sure you're alive. Could you just text me once a week and say, I'm good. You know, Mom, I'm 30. I understand that. I understand that. Just, I said, if I have to find out news about you through your social media accounts, I'm not going to be happy. You know, like, one of my one son, I think I found out he was moving, packing up, and I was like, what do you mean you're packing up? What do you mean you're moving? Did we not tell you? No. no, you did not. Oh, my God.

[22:39] CARLA COWAN: Come on.

[22:40] MC MASLYN: Anyway, they're. They're good. They're. They're good people. They're good people.

[22:47] CARLA COWAN: It's so nice to be. Have that. I feel the same way. I mean, my sons are productive members of society. One of them Works. Has. They both are full-time workers. One has a side business. and he's always, he's my very entrepreneurial one and he's always got something, you know, some new idea. And the other one is, I liked how you talked about, like two people, same mom and my, and maybe probably same mom and dad. And that's what is my situation with my sons. and they're just night and day in terms of this. The older one, I might hear from him, I don't know, every now and then. I mean, and the other one is almost daily. He's, you know, because he. I think he's a little like, okay, he's just more. I don't want to say a mama's boy because he's not at all, but he's. He's got a softer heart. and he really, really is very connected to me. Not that the other one isn't, but they're just so different.

[24:02] MC MASLYN: Yeah, my boys, let's see, my ex and I were married, we were together for 17 years and then we separated and didn't get divorced for 20 years, even though I didn't live within the last three, I needed health insurance. And until the Affordable Care Act came in, I couldn't get health insurance, but there were some other extenuating circumstances. So anyway, yeah, we were together almost 20, actually we were married, I think for 20 years, but then got divorced at 23. I can't remember, but he lived, the boy stayed with him and I got an apartment that was just like a mile from the house. And because long story short, I didn't get anything because I had a higher earning potential than him. You have a higher earning potential and you don't get anything from that other spouse in Pennsylvania.

[25:08] CARLA COWAN: Oh, okay.

[25:10] MC MASLYN: Yeah. So we decided it was better for the boys to stay with him because I had no income. I was working. part-time jobs. I went from six figure salary to moving here to working at an outlet mall. And so it was just kind of weird. But the boys, like, we're just a mile away. So they were just come, they'd come and go whenever they wanted here, the same way they did, you know, with their dads, because my door was always open. It's a small town. It's a small town. and they so they I would say that everything was the same ish, but it really wasn't as if, you know, we were living under the same roof. But when when the kids get to a certain age anyway, how often do you see them? Not much like they're busy with school and their groups and the plays and the band and the choir and the sports and the athletics. But I saw them every single day. But my youngest, like he posts on his Instagram, sunsets, sunrises, all of these things because it just makes his heart happy, right? And so does my oldest boy. But my oldest called me today and we talked for two hours and I haven't talked to him for like six weeks. so that's how it goes. I told them, I said, I am 24/7 going to answer the phone when you call me. Yeah. You know, I am 24/7 I'm on. I don't think I'll ever stop being, you know, a mom that way. I wouldn't say I had that same experience growing up, which is why it was really important to me to give that to. my children.

[27:11] CARLA COWAN: Yep.

[27:12] MC MASLYN: So that they knew. They know if they call me, I. If I'm at work, I'll even answer on my watch. Hey, I'm at work. Can I call you back? You know? Yeah. So just that they know. I don't want them to ever not know that I'm not there. And I. I mean, if I miss a phone call, that's different. But you know what I mean? I just. It's too important to me.

[27:36] CARLA COWAN: I have very similar experience. I had, you know, mothers and daughters, but, I just wanted something, I really wanted my sons to know, one, that they were a priority in my life, and two, that no matter what was going on, no matter, and, and there was a lot of chaos when, when they were growing up, you know, there was, there was just a lot of chaos. Some of it, you know, I was responsible for some of it their dad was responsible for. And, you know, they were, I don't want to say victims. They, that had an impact on them.

[28:22] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[28:23] CARLA COWAN: Although, however, through all of that, they knew that they were loved, and they know that today. And, and honestly, and see, I can't tell you how often as adult men, they say, you know, Mom, I would not be who I am today if it wasn't for you, your example. And so what to me is, you know, a series of regrets to them, they look at it so differently. And it's, I've just had to let that go. You know, I've had, I had a lot of shame, a lot of guilt around that, but I just had to let that go and just like, are you gonna. Are you gonna be mired in the past? Are you gonna just, like, Savor the present? And that's been a long journey for me to get to. To that point, to be able to say that. Oh, wait. I can't hear you.

[29:21] MC MASLYN: Hold on. Can you hear me now?

[29:28] CARLA COWAN: Yes. Yes.

[29:29] MC MASLYN: Okay. I don't know what happened. I was gonna say, I think that women, we take on a huge responsibility for, let me rephrase this, decisions that we make and how they affect our children. I think we carry a big burden and concerned and these kids are so resilient and they do look and they do learn and they do know that they are loved and, and, you know, you've provided that example for them. And I think as we get older as women, we learn to say, like you said, it's in the past, you know? But I, I used to, I, I did used to be really upset at myself for decisions that I made because I left a great career. I didn't want to. I wanted to raise my boys, but I also knew I had committed to this family relationship with my spouse. He had gone ahead to Washington, DC to work for the CIA, and we stayed behind because I said, I don't, I'm not ready yet. I want to get our ducks in the row and I want to make sure that you're happy at the CIA before we move across country. and in my heart of hearts, I didn't want to be married anymore. But I had these boys and I had made this promise. And then the church that I used to go to is very faith centered that you make this. I used to. I. I'm Latter-day Saint. So you might know as Mormon, but I was very, very. I converted to the church, but when you're married in the temple, that's like the ultimate, right? And I just didn't want to be married anymore to this particular person and or any, I wasn't like messing around with anybody, but I just, my heart was just not happy in this marriage. But I had made this covenant and I had made this promise and I didn't want to be the one to say I kept my boys away from their dad. so I left my job, which I knew was, you know, Carla, in my heart, I knew it wasn't the right thing to do. And at the same time, I had my boys. So I feel like it was right for my boys, but not right for me. You know? Yes. So moved. And then. So we were back. We've been back East for. I think we were back East for five years, and then I said, I just. I can't do this anymore. And that's when we divorced. But I stayed here and until the boys graduated from college. And then I got very, very, very sick with COVID I had a pulmonary embolism and then it attacked my muscles. And so I actually have an appointment with the doctor in two weeks as a follow-up on still COVID stuff. So It really, my health, the last while, even though I kept doing stuff, for me to have held down like a full-time, full-time job would have been really difficult. My goal was once Emerson graduated from tech school, I was going to move west and go back to Utah and look for work again in government. And that didn't work because I got COVID and I got sick. And now I just turned 63, so we are very close. I just turned 63 and like nobody's gonna hire me now, even though I can do a lot of stuff. So I teach community college. I'm an adjunct professor. I have a full load this semester. I never know what I'm gonna get, but I have a full load and, you know, there's no benefits with being adjunct. There's no benefits with my cleaning jobs. There's no benefits at the YMCA because you're only teaching a few classes. And so I have my coverage through the marketplace through affordable care act. Thank goodness for that. But that's all changing now because of policies. And I, there were times when, like I put in my bio, I used to be like, I used to regret part of my life, but I'm okay now. I really didn't like myself for a long time for not staying true to myself about just staying with my job that I loved and telling my husband at the time, I can't do this. He knew I was struggling with it, but. I look at the financial fallout to my personal life, you know, from that, and I would beat myself up a lot. And now I just say, I have so many friends. I have such a good support system. I have a lot of freedom. And when I finally, I'm gonna say, forgave myself for shooting myself financially, I started to trust that things would fall into place. Wow. And that that would. That I would be taking care of. And there were days, like, I was working five part-time jobs for about four years because it's a small town, so you piecemeal all these minimum wage jobs. you know, and I would. And I was trying to take care of the boys finances, too, and, you know, a whole bunch of stuff, but I. I would say to the universe, to God, whatever, thank you for letting me have the energy to do this. Yeah. And. And I met so many good people. and I can't put a price on that. Like, I run into people in the grocery store, I run into people, you know, at restaurants, or I run into people just walking down the street, and I know them like it's a community. My little band of people who I met through these really hard years of working so much, and they're, they're, they are dear to me and. I think I paid a high price for that, but at the same time, what I, you can't tell me everything would have worked out if I would have stayed because no one knows. No one knows. And my boys, I think the thing that I'm most embarrassed about that I'm still working on is like my boys were younger up to age 10 when I was managing the city. You know, I don't want to say biggie wiggy, but I had a really prestigious job and I loved it with my whole being in soul. Happy. Just it fed my soul to do this job. And now what they've seen me as is She's a cleaner. She teaches part time. She works at stores. And for a long time, I was embarrassed about that. And I thought, I don't want my boys to say, oh, yeah, my mom's this. And then I started thinking, all works honorable. I can say, My mom's scrappy and can make anything out of anything. Great. okay. But I had to come to that acceptance, too.

[37:43] CARLA COWAN: Yes. Yes. I. Oh, my gosh. You know, this just goes back to what you said earlier about it being such a small world. And, you know, when my sons were young, I was thinking about this earlier today for no reason. we had, you know, every month something got turned off because, you know, with, when their father left us, we had a house. I made 7.50 an hour.

[38:23] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[38:23] CARLA COWAN: This was in the 80s and our house payment was 800 a month. And they were in daycare full time while I was trying to work. And, you know, you can just do that math. So, yeah, yeah, it was always. something, you know, always something being turned off. And so when you said scrappy, yes. I mean, I had to fight for everything, you know, but. And I was so young, MC, I was so young. But we made it work. I grew up with them. And, you know, as things. As things changed in my career.

[38:58] MC MASLYN: Things.

[38:58] CARLA COWAN: Changed for us financially. and we were able to, you know, crawl out of that. It really took years, but I gotta show you what I got earlier this year.

[39:11] MC MASLYN: Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a Lotus flower, yes? Yes. Yes.

[39:20] CARLA COWAN: I got that last year just to kind of mark where I finally am in my life and to remember that, you know, my peace and serenity, nothing is worth my peace and serenity at this point. It's just not. And, you know, I don't come from a religious background. I don't really practice any sort of religion. I guess if I had, if you said, you have to pick something, you know, the Buddhist philosophy is just really so much of where I'm at today in terms of that's how I want to live my life. I don't, I don't, I've caused enough harm in my life that I want to cause any more. Um, and just, you know, live a life that reflects that to the best of my ability while still being human, right?

[40:19] MC MASLYN: Yes. Have you, when you said Buddhist, do you know who Joseph Campbell is?

[40:25] CARLA COWAN: I do.

[40:26] MC MASLYN: Have you heard of Joseph? Have you watched his power of myth series? No, he has. Gosh, I'm not even sure how you can get a hold of it, but you might be able to check it out from the library. You might be able to find it online. But it's Joseph Smith. The Joseph Smith. That was funny. Joseph Campbell. of myth. And it's a long series. It's shoot. Who was it? It wasn't Edward R. Murrow. It was somebody who interviewed him and he passed soon after. But he talks about the Journey of Life and the, the, he talks a lot about the hero's journey and finding yourself and, and the philosophy and, and our motivation and whatever, and he tells stories. and the low, there's one story there about where there's, I remember the lotus flowers in the artistry. But I've watched that several times. I even had it written down that I want to re-watch it because I learned a lot about myself watching that. And I think as we age, you start making connections. Like if you were to look at my brain on a detective board with the strings and the pictures, like it would be near, you know, all of these connections. I think that, that, that wisdom, especially for women, I think we see the big picture very well, which is why I'd like to see more women in leadership. But the picture very well of how these things connect and being able to share that. with others like your grandchildren. They're so fortunate, you know, number one to have you. And I. One of my things is I told my boys, I said, by the time you guys have kids, I'm gonna be too old to even know what's happening. Right? But nevertheless, it's what it is. Anyway, do you realize we've only got seven minutes left?

[42:31] CARLA COWAN: Oh, my word.

[42:33] MC MASLYN: I did ask you a quick question. How did you get involved in the Holocaust studies?

[42:44] CARLA COWAN: Oh, thank you for asking that. You know, as a little girl, my dad loved to watch historically based movies.

[42:58] MC MASLYN: Okay.

[42:59] CARLA COWAN: And so a lot of the things that were on in our home were things about World War II, you know, as a little girl. And so he and I, he started having very adult conversations with me about the war and, and, you know, the hardship of the Depression and then, you know, particularly during World War II, which he lived through, and then the end. And, and so anyway, that sort of inspired me to learn more about why would we treat this particular group of people in such a horrible way for no reason that I could understand at that time? And so it really just started a lifelong interest in those kinds of things, which translated later to human rights. And I went to, I went to Auschwitz on my own.

[43:55] MC MASLYN: Oh, my God.

[43:56] CARLA COWAN: I guess in 2000, 2009, and it just felt like it. This is the wrong word. Like it was calling me. It felt very critical to my growth as a person to be able to stand there and see where these atrocities took place.

[44:19] MC MASLYN: Yeah.

[44:19] CARLA COWAN: So anyway, I came home. We have. the Dallas Holocaust Museum is an hour from here. And I started the docent training to just kind of continue my education in that area. Now, and then COVID happened and, you know, it's a four hour shift every time you go. And then, you know, post COVID, I didn't really, some other things changed in terms of commitments to other people. And so, It didn't make sense for a six hour day to volunteer. Okay.

[45:00] MC MASLYN: It's after the recording. I don't know if we can keep going, but anyway, go ahead, keep chatting. I'm interested.

[45:07] CARLA COWAN: So I had to step away from that, but I also, you know, there are many ways to fill that need. And I served eight years. Yeah, eight years here in Fort Worth. on a commission that we call the Human Relations Commission, and it is all about human rights for all people. And so I did that for eight.

[45:34] MC MASLYN: Years.

[45:35] CARLA COWAN: And that really, really filled my soul. And I felt like it was. I felt like it was important work. I believe that it was important work and. So I'm always looking and you know, I find that in travel because I, you know, I've traveled a lot on my own and then my husband and I got have been married for 13 years and we've gone to gone traditional places that people don't go to like one of my my favorite country is Vietnam and you know, you see people who are marginalized but then you meet them It's, you know, there are people just like you and I, but the same kinds of stories that we've had and the same challenges. And so I feel like myself getting very excited because I do feel so strongly about this topic. And thank you for asking about that.

[46:32] MC MASLYN: I mean, people are people, right? The more you travel, the more you see, the more you're like, people are people. And we all just want to raise our children and be safe and have our families with us and have a job and just be able to be as healthy as we can.

[46:49] CARLA COWAN: Yes.

[46:52] MC MASLYN: Yeah. So I think for my heart, when I see destruction of things and people, I mean, I can say to myself why, and I feel like I know the answers to that. It's usually greed. pride, control, you know, power. And it makes me sick that it's people's lives that are the cost for when you look at it, a very small number of powerful people are running the show for lack of a better term. And it breaks my quite often. I find myself having to put myself on a diet of news.

[47:44] CARLA COWAN: Yep.

[47:45] MC MASLYN: And that it's overwhelming and taking away a lot of my time emotionally. And I I quite I I repost things and I do some certain things on my Instagram page and and and I'm like, I need to stop. And then I'm like, I can't. How where I think I can walk away from trying to people.

[48:14] CARLA COWAN: Yes.

[48:15] MC MASLYN: And increasing awareness. Who am I to just say, well, I know, but you don't know. You don't have to know. Why do I feel it's my calling to get out there and go, hello, wake up. why can other people I know just say that happened? When did that happen? What's that? And I'm like, oh, my gosh, do you not see this? Why is that in me? And. And, like, you, you know, I I think it's a blessing and a curse.

[48:49] CARLA COWAN: I agree.

[48:50] MC MASLYN: Time. Don't know what to do about it. Fight myself all the time, you know? with what's my responsibility?

[49:00] CARLA COWAN: Yes. Yes.

[49:03] MC MASLYN: And I don't know what is the. I don't know.

[49:06] CARLA COWAN: Where's the balance?

[49:08] MC MASLYN: I don't know. But I do know. And I told my boys, because Marshall's like, Mom, you're overreacting. And I said, you're gaslighting me, number one. Number two, I lived in the 60s. I fought for these rights. So did other women. and by hell, I will not have your wife and my grandchildren grow up in a country where they, like, they're being squash, squash, squash, you know? And I think he learned a lot from that conversation, but I think if they haven't lived it, they have no idea what it's like to not have it.

[49:44] CARLA COWAN: True.

[49:45] MC MASLYN: No idea. I don't know if this is gonna, like, stop us completely from talking or if it's just stop recording. I think it's probably stop recording. So let's see if it's an explosion. We'll see each other in the chat room. 321. Okay, let's see. Are you sure you want to stop recording?